Attention! Block Damage.

[Khulkhuum]

One of my modded playthroughs i decided to go full throttle with a machete against the BM horde. The first few BMs were pretty fun, but after a while i noticed how easy it was to run around and lob heads left and right with minimum damage done to me by the enemies. And no, weapons were not modified there. I would say that this kind of fighting is in many ways similar to A17.

 

Another thing is when i tried making small bunkers to hide inside and shoot/melee enemies through the small gaps i created. Tested similar concepts in A17 and it didn't work as well as in A16. This is the main difference i'm talking about. Zou had to make up new designs and ideas for good bases in A17, although some surely would work the same as in A16. Nevertheless, the change was there.

[Khulkhuum]

Decided to test changing zombie damage reduction based on block types they hit. The results are quite interesting to say the least. I have checked out two scenarios, in both using a set of closed in walls - square with each side being 5 blocks long and center empty to stay in while zombies could bash from the outside. Additionally, i had to set the walls for up to 4 blocks high because second scenario involved big numbers of Zs and they were able to jump over the wall.

 

In both scenarios i compared zombie damage with regular numbers (as is in current stable, so without any damage detriments) against my added detriments (as listed in a few replies above). I used Nomad difficulty for this.

 

Scenario #1: 1 Zombie Boe hitting consecutively against the walls of Wood (block type of wood), Brick (stone), Concrete (stone), Iron (metal) and Steel (metal) Blocks.

Results without changes: No matter what he hit, every block received 16 points of damage (block HP was going down every time by 16 points).

Results with changes: As expected the zombie was hitting with far less damage. The numbers were 14, 11, 11, 6, 6 damage against Wood, Brick, Concrete, Iron and Steel respectively.

 

Scenario #2: Bloodmoon horde (GS 190, with Ferals and Rads) attacking against the walls of same configuration. I used 64 enemies at BM and during the peak 64 zombies amassed around. The most important moment was when zombies breached an opening to run inside.

Results without changes: Wood was taken out almost instantly. Brick lasted a few seconds longer, similarly Concrete and Iron. Steel remained the longest, although it's durability fell fast, with only the high amount of block hp allowing it to last longer.

Results with changes: Wood was taken out almost instantly. Brick lasted quite longer than wood, while Concrete stayed even longer (due to higher durability). Iron lasted similarly to Concrete, as Zs had the least damage on metal. Steel performed remarkably well, but even that didn't stop the horde to ripping the blocks to shreds (not to mentioned that Steel went down into Reinforced Concrete).

 

CONCLUSIONS:

1. Adding damage detriments against block types surely helps when encountering small numbers of zombies. Their single hits won't make a big dent in tougher walls as quickly as in vanilla, making usage of higher quality blocks a valid defense.

2. On the other hand a BM horde still fairly quickly punched through the walls and considering steel was last to be "tested", yet it fell before midnight (00:00 time). This means that even when limiting the damage for zombies hitting metal blocks, more intricate defenses need to be applied than simply walling yourself in.

3. Taking into account various designs and additional traps/defenses, one can be certain that their bases will withstand a tougher ordeal, yet it still remains in the players interest to secure his/hers life in adequate manner.

[delukard]

and you can easy mod it to 1% or even 0% (but even at 0% they do a bit damage, so a woodframe will not stop them forever)

 

how?

 

i would like them to do 1% to dirt

[Royal Deluxe]

how?

 

i would like them to do 1% to dirt

 

you can set the general blockdamage of zombies to 25% or get my mod for additional 0%,1%, 10%

https://7daystodie.com/forums/showthread.php?103985-Vanilla-modlet-collection

	<set xpath="/windows/window[@name='newContinueGame']/rect[@name='tabs']/rect[@name='tabsContents']/rect[@tab_key='Advanced']/grid/gameoption[@name='BlockDamageAI']/@values">0, 1, 10, 25, 50, 75, 100, 125, 150, 175, 200, 300, 500, 1000</set>
<set xpath="/windows/window[@name='serverBrowser']/panel[@name='serverfilters']/panel[@controller='TabSelector']/rect[@name='tabsContents']/rect[@tab_key='Advanced']/grid/browsergameoptioncombined[@name='BlockDamageAI']/@values">0, 1, 10, 25, 50, 75, 100, 125, 150, 175, 200, 300, 500, 1000</set>

 

or you edit the Zombiehands

 

or you try (not tested but it should work)

to add this here to the melee hand master

	<passive_effect name="DamageModifier" operation="perc_add" value="-.001" tags="earth"/>

maybe this needs some more finetuning but there i would start

[Umbrella]

Decided to test changing zombie damage reduction based on block types they hit

 

Are these changes accounted for by the IA pathing ? Or would it be possible to make them believe the shortest path is through steel while it would have been through wood with the actual values in your xml ?

[Khulkhuum]

The hardest thing about changing AI pathing based on block type is the amount of durability each block has. It's a bit easier considering Iron and Brick blocks (which have more similar durability), but if you compare Steel and Concrete it's gonna be tougher unless you make radical changes between block types.

 

My whole reason for adding block type detriments was to make blocks more resilient against single Zs, yet trying to maintain their "fragility" with bigger and varied numbers. This is why i changed zombie hands of tougher Zs to have smaller detriments and Zs that seem weaker to have bigger. Simply because you wouldn't expect the frail looking nurse or stripper to hit as hard as the cop or biker. Additionally, the zombie group hitting on the same block serves my purpose well, as they focus on single blocks and even with lowered damage, they still quickly bash down the block HP.

[Cirion]

Edit - Please do not throw up all over me. That sentence was worded badly. lol

 

@Khulkhuum

 

would you be willing to throw up and upload a simple modlet to make these zombie block damage changes?

 

Thanks !

 

BTW your results verified my suspicions. There have been some snide comments by devs and others that making this change would make the game fully AFK-able, but your tests prove otherwise. It just improves quality of life, is all.

[Khulkhuum]

Sure, so far i have been directly modifying the xmls, but i'll look into preparing a proper script for updates. Gonna add it after i finish this and things look good.

 

EDIT: Added a new thread in the mods section: https://7daystodie.com/forums/showthread.php?111901-Zombie-damage-detriments

[webskorpion]

For my day 35 "Blood Moon Horde" only two reinforced concrete blocks were knocked out completely (Level 103, Gamestage 214, Krieger). I have adapted my building accordingly for the Horde, so that the zombies are not in the so-called "destruction mode", but are busy, for example, with running, hopping, Barbed Wire and jumping. In addition, a part of the Horde was burned down by me with Molotov cocktails. Of course there were a lot of small damages, but they did not matter.

 

Of course, the player should have disadvantages if he designs no meaningful building for the "Blood Moon Horde". That's the challenge.

 

In the Alpha 17.2 there is no problem in my opinion with block damage of the zombies. If you do not want a challenge, you can easily adjust the game in the options.

 

If you need help, you will find enough inspiration videos, for example, under "Youtube 7 Days to The Pathfinding"

 

Even if the Horde knocked out 25 reinforced concrete blocks in Destruction mode, it would only be 250 concrete mixes. That's what the Horde has with me, too, until I have adapted the building.

 

But what the developers should do is to improve the nailgun! It is too slow, if you have many small damages.

 

There is no problem building a safe building in the Alpha 17.2. You can even build concrete from the first day as you will find concrete mix.

 

A "Blood Moon Horde" should be a threat and challenge in the game, which increases. Otherwise it is not fun.

 

(Unfortunately, I can only speak very little English. I have used translation program German – English.)

[Cirion]

I am well aware of how to make proper bases that mitigate damage, all self-taught without looking at videos even.

 

That doesn't change the fact that it makes zero sense for a zombie to tear through steel in mere moments. Just because I probably plan to use the mod that @Khulk made, isn't even going to really change my strategies, it just makes damage control between BM's more manageable, and opens up possibilities like playing with the BM slider to have BM's more frequently if I want to and still be able to manage it.

 

What I am trying to say is it keeps the challenge, more or less, but gets rid of the tedium of having to rebuild a lot of damage every BM.

 

So this isn't about needing help to make bases, its just increasing the QOL.

 

In regards to the nailgun I agree. I use a mod for that. in A16 the nailgun had the perfect speed imo. I am not sure why this speed got nerfed in A17? Vanilla nailgun is virtually the same as the claw hammer now.

[Khulkhuum]

In terms of speed yes, it's the same, although it "does more repair" than clawhammer. It doesn't even have to revert back to A16 speed, but perhaps something in between?

 

Testing my modlet i had to make a couple walled in spaced, which then were seriously damaged and i had to repair them for another set of tests. This even in creative was pretty tedious...

[Auner]

I made a post about changing the bonus to time-based instead of group-based, and making behaviours more random. I think this would be a good middle ground for everyone.

[Vomkat]

Isn't there a setting to adjust block damage? Aren't there .xml files you can modify?

[Cirion]

Isn't there a setting to adjust block damage? Aren't there .xml files you can modify?

 

The block damage setting only is a flat multiplier on all blocks.

 

Khulk's mod has different multipliers for terrain, wood, stone, metal, respectively.

[OldManBrian]

The block damage setting only is a flat multiplier on all blocks.

 

Khulk's mod has different multipliers for terrain, wood, stone, metal, respectively.

 

And none of that really helps too much since the zombies all get a massive bonus to damage when they're in proximity to eachother, combined with their psychic pathing that makes them focus on the weakest block.

 

Unless that's changed with new updates, been awhile since I played a17.

[Cirion]

And none of that really helps too much since the zombies all get a massive bonus to damage when they're in proximity to eachother, combined with their psychic pathing that makes them focus on the weakest block.

 

Unless that's changed with new updates, been awhile since I played a17.

 

Yeah I mean I have the Stainless steel block mods, and had 3-4 layers of stainless steel, playing with a friend on insane. On that difficulty it least it doesn't matter what you have, they tear through stuff so fast even several layers of stainless steel (which you can't even get in vanilla!!). You could argue that it's because I'm on insane and should lower the difficulty, but it wasn't this bad in A16. They really dramatically upped zombie damage in A17 to obscene levels.

[eXSe]

When you figure out how zomberts "think", you can survive anything even with plain wood blocks. Now that they've become "smarter", you can screw with them at your leisure

[Cirion]

When you figure out how zomberts "think", you can survive anything even with plain wood blocks. Now that they've become "smarter", you can screw with them at your leisure

 

I know how they think now but didn't quite grasp it when putting together the base with my friend. I realize now that the # of layers of walls you have to add to prevent them from going for the walls is increased as a function of the size of the base. We took over a huge POI and found it took around 5 layers to prevent this and have them go for the traps instead.

 

Knowing this in the future I plan to stick to smaller footprint bases. Skyscrapers seem to be a smarter base since they have less footprint to worry about layering up while still allowing ample space to put your stuff.

[eXSe]

I know how they think now but didn't quite grasp it when putting together the base with my friend. I realize now that the # of layers of walls you have to add to prevent them from going for the walls is increased as a function of the size of the base. We took over a huge POI and found it took around 5 layers to prevent this and have them go for the traps instead.

 

You can screw with them with a simple ramp and a path with a hole in it that they don't "see" to make them fall down and just do that over and over.

[Auner]

You can screw with them with a simple ramp and a path with a hole in it that they don't "see" to make them fall down and just do that over and over.

I think most know this now, but it just feels cheaty and boring. “Most” people don’t complain about block damage because it’s impossible to deal with, but because it’s restrictive in design. I’ve gone to building bases on top of Iron Sheets (one down, one up) which creates a floating base. I’d honestly prefer to just use concrete walls and arrow slats but if a wandering horde hears me opening chests/digging, my walls will fall before I get outside.