How this game is supposed to be played

[Roland]

Time will tell how much is left in the XMLs for the modders once the dust settles. All fine and good that they make the game they want - but let me put it like this: You buy a bicycle simulator and play it happily for years, and all of a sudden it becomes a Formula 1 simulator because someone decides that using two wheeled vehicles was never the intention of the game! Thanks!

 

The xmls have only become more robust and the devs have continually made new features of the game visible for modders to play with. There is absolutely no evidence of what you are insinuating “once the dust settles”. You are way off in crazy town now if you’re accusing these devs of backing off from keeping their game fully moddable.

 

Your metaphor depicts too extreme a change to be a good fit in my opinion. It’s more like it was mountain bike sim with no physics so you could just cruise down the mountain without risk or ruin but then they added physics so the old ways of just flying straight down no longer work.

 

You need to take a breather because your arguments have slipped into the ridiculous. It’s still 7 Days to Die and pretty much the same general game it’s always been. It is merely four days into experimental and they are waiting until they get a good measured picture of all feedback before making revisions. You’ve said your piece and I know for a fact the devs are aware of your stance. If your goal was to bring to light your feelings about the changes then mission accomplished 👍

[mr.devolver]

You need to take a breather

 

I was thinking what would be the best way to describe gameplay of Alpha 17. I think this part of your post describes it perfectly. Give me at least a freaking bicycle early, please!

[bloom_meister]

I really thought there would be threads discussing new strategies and sharing ideas on how to survive horde night. I didn’t expect defeat threads where people would give up after less than a week with the game saying “It’s impossible!”

 

I just hit level 78, the game gets harder, not easier, and yes i have adapted my playstyle but when 3-5 feral irradiated cops and ferals jump out on you because you fell through a floor you did not know was broken, giving you a broken leg and then dying to said mobs, thats not a case of ''not adapting your playstyle'', thats just retarded

 

The more i level the more UNfun it gets, if anything i probably felt stronger at level 1 on day 1 with grass armour and a wooden club than i do at level 78, food sucks, stamina sucks, guns suck armour sucks, the feel of the game is like i am moving in treacle, just feels way less smooth than A16.

 

I have no incentive to travel, i am surrounded by POI 'dungeons' of which i cant even clear more than 4 in a full day, and thats if i am lucky so i wont ever see the rest of the map

 

I have no incentive to get more guns because the one i got on day 1 is the same as the one i got at level 78 on day 45.

 

I have no incentive to build a base because when i tried, using concrete, which was grindy as HELL to make, the zeds tore through it in under 1 minute

 

I cant hide underground because some total and utter idiot decided that they didnt want players playing the game how they liked and deliberately broke the playstyle of many players who like to bunker down and build, you know, like you would in a real apocolypse scenario and as we have been able to do for literally years now

 

I cant protect any base i do build because i can only place one claim and then it break after a few minutes anyway.

 

IF i wanted to explore i cant before my stamina runs out (with perks) in literally 6 seconds and you disabled every single stamina giving drink from A16 just leaving a very weak version of coffee because you want to FORCE us to suffer through the grind

 

So in summary I cant explore, i cant build, i cant hunt for upgrades because its pointless and i have to walk everywhere encumbered because again some IDIOT thought adding encumbrance would make the game more ''fun''.

 

I am trying very hard to keep going to see if there is ANY light at the end of the tunnel but tbh I dont see it

 

And dont even get me started on the single most idiotic thing, level gating perks which are already gated behind levelling and points so that NO-ONE can specialise in anything anymore, we are all just cookie cutter little clones.

 

You have broken this game badly and if you dont fix these glaring design erros then your playerbase will disappear and no new players are going to put hundreds or thousands of hours into THIS game

[Guppycur]

Bloom. Every paragraph worked... Except the last one.

 

Surely you see it.

[giKoN]

Bloom. Every paragraph worked... Except the last one.

 

Surely you see it.

 

Guess which one Roland will quote.

[DrTeath]

I may be wrong on this, but I think that a lot of people would pay less attention to the gating, if it was more seamless. Atm they get a lot of points and have to spread them somewhere they may not want to, while they face a clear restriction. How they are gated doesn't practically make a difference, but it would be more prudent if they were gated by less obvious means, or by lack of points instead of a "wall".

 

You arent forced to spread those points out . You dont loose them if you dont spend them. You can just be patient and wait to spend them when you hit the level you need for what you want .

[Sergoros]

The xmls have only become more robust and the devs have continually made new features of the game visible for modders to play with. There is absolutely no evidence of what you are insinuating “once the dust settles”. You are way off in crazy town now if you’re accusing these devs of backing off from keeping their game fully moddable.

 

Your metaphor depicts too extreme a change to be a good fit in my opinion. It’s more like it was mountain bike sim with no physics so you could just cruise down the mountain without risk or ruin but then they added physics so the old ways of just flying straight down no longer work.

 

You need to take a breather because your arguments have slipped into the ridiculous. It’s still 7 Days to Die and pretty much the same general game it’s always been. It is merely four days into experimental and they are waiting until they get a good measured picture of all feedback before making revisions. You’ve said your piece and I know for a fact the devs are aware of your stance. If your goal was to bring to light your feelings about the changes then mission accomplished ��

 

Emmm....Im sorry Roland, but this is just wrong. If we continue the metaphor, we would have a bike simulator, where you can build a big garage, with alot of upgrades. It was a very customisable garage. With alot of rooms for different purposes. And you can make many of them on the road. Now, you have only 1 lock to lock the garage, you can't make multiple garages now. And 1 lock is not even enough to protect your one garage anyway. Once its gone, anybody can steal your stuff.

 

Which in all together means, that game, from bike and garage simulator, has turned only in bike simulator. Sounds like a big cut, that xml can't fix btw.

[Mestema]

I just hit level 78, the game gets harder, not easier, and yes i have adapted my playstyle but when 3-5 feral irradiated cops and ferals jump out on you because you fell through a floor you did not know was broken, giving you a broken leg and then dying to said mobs, thats not a case of ''not adapting your playstyle'', thats just retarded

 

The more i level the more UNfun it gets, if anything i probably felt stronger at level 1 on day 1 with grass armour and a wooden club than i do at level 78, food sucks, stamina sucks, guns suck armour sucks, the feel of the game is like i am moving in treacle, just feels way less smooth than A16.

 

I have no incentive to travel, i am surrounded by POI 'dungeons' of which i cant even clear more than 4 in a full day, and thats if i am lucky so i wont ever see the rest of the map

 

I have no incentive to get more guns because the one i got on day 1 is the same as the one i got at level 78 on day 45.

 

I have no incentive to build a base because when i tried, using concrete, which was grindy as HELL to make, the zeds tore through it in under 1 minute

 

I cant hide underground because some total and utter idiot decided that they didnt want players playing the game how they liked and deliberately broke the playstyle of many players who like to bunker down and build, you know, like you would in a real apocolypse scenario and as we have been able to do for literally years now

 

I cant protect any base i do build because i can only place one claim and then it break after a few minutes anyway.

 

IF i wanted to explore i cant before my stamina runs out (with perks) in literally 6 seconds and you disabled every single stamina giving drink from A16 just leaving a very weak version of coffee because you want to FORCE us to suffer through the grind

 

So in summary I cant explore, i cant build, i cant hunt for upgrades because its pointless and i have to walk everywhere encumbered because again some IDIOT thought adding encumbrance would make the game more ''fun''.

 

I am trying very hard to keep going to see if there is ANY light at the end of the tunnel but tbh I dont see it

 

And dont even get me started on the single most idiotic thing, level gating perks which are already gated behind levelling and points so that NO-ONE can specialise in anything anymore, we are all just cookie cutter little clones.

 

You have broken this game badly and if you dont fix these glaring design erros then your playerbase will disappear and no new players are going to put hundreds or thousands of hours into THIS game

 

This is my exact statement, and after roaming various streams and chatting with wiewers, we're far from alone. Like zergs, really.

 

Exept the digging thing. The absence of digging made a16 end at day 30 mainly. Digging Z is exactly what missed in A16, with his very good balance of Z's block damage.

 

A base of A16 with A17's engine, POIs and Z's AI would make it almost perfect ! With traders that give only 1 quest/week.

[thraka]

I dont see any way to come up with new strats. And when people do come up with new strats they are labeled exploits and the zombies fixed to defeat them lol. I am already getting people telling me about strats but they will be considered exploits. Mark my words. The zombies are simply too smart at this point.

 

Yup. The cabal of people who judge what is BadWrongFun have an approved playstyle, and all others are exploits to be removed from the game.

[Xtrakicking]

So, "truly speaking" you are telling people how to play the game even if they think they are having fun doing what ever they feel like doing?

 

We could add unicorns and a way to tame them so we can fly into oblivion. Many people would find that fun. Should it be added, then? No. Definitely not.

 

With this I'm trying to tell you that the game has a certain premise, and everything the game has should aim to support that premise. In this case, the game is called 7 Days to Die, because every 7 days you get a huge horde swarming you, and you're supposed to build a fortress and defend it against that horde. That's the main premise of the game.

 

If there's an exploit that allows the player to dig a 2 meter deep hole in the ground and hide in it every horde night, then that's something that needs to get removed, because it's not intended and completely ruins the premise of the game.

 

What's the point of having reinforced steel walls and electrified, bladed traps if you can fight off the horde with a Yucca wall? It's plainly dumb. Nobody would care about the high tier items and everybody who actually wants a challenge would become bored extremely fast. This isn't Garry's Mod, this isn't a silly sandbox "screwing-around" game. This game is aiming to be a challenging survival, tower defense game. Obviously, not every playstyle will be satisfied.

 

That's just how it is.

[mr.devolver]

I just hit level 78, the game gets harder, not easier, and yes i have adapted my playstyle but when 3-5 feral irradiated cops and ferals jump out on you because you fell through a floor you did not know was broken, giving you a broken leg and then dying to said mobs, thats not a case of ''not adapting your playstyle'', thats just retarded

 

The more i level the more UNfun it gets, if anything i probably felt stronger at level 1 on day 1 with grass armour and a wooden club than i do at level 78, food sucks, stamina sucks, guns suck armour sucks, the feel of the game is like i am moving in treacle, just feels way less smooth than A16.

 

I have no incentive to travel, i am surrounded by POI 'dungeons' of which i cant even clear more than 4 in a full day, and thats if i am lucky so i wont ever see the rest of the map

 

I have no incentive to get more guns because the one i got on day 1 is the same as the one i got at level 78 on day 45.

 

I have no incentive to build a base because when i tried, using concrete, which was grindy as HELL to make, the zeds tore through it in under 1 minute

 

I cant hide underground because some total and utter idiot decided that they didnt want players playing the game how they liked and deliberately broke the playstyle of many players who like to bunker down and build, you know, like you would in a real apocolypse scenario and as we have been able to do for literally years now

 

I cant protect any base i do build because i can only place one claim and then it break after a few minutes anyway.

 

IF i wanted to explore i cant before my stamina runs out (with perks) in literally 6 seconds and you disabled every single stamina giving drink from A16 just leaving a very weak version of coffee because you want to FORCE us to suffer through the grind

 

So in summary I cant explore, i cant build, i cant hunt for upgrades because its pointless and i have to walk everywhere encumbered because again some IDIOT thought adding encumbrance would make the game more ''fun''.

 

I am trying very hard to keep going to see if there is ANY light at the end of the tunnel but tbh I dont see it

 

And dont even get me started on the single most idiotic thing, level gating perks which are already gated behind levelling and points so that NO-ONE can specialise in anything anymore, we are all just cookie cutter little clones.

 

You have broken this game badly and if you dont fix these glaring design erros then your playerbase will disappear and no new players are going to put hundreds or thousands of hours into THIS game

 

Man, do you even have a heart? Stop breaking the statistics! It was said this is the best Alpha so far according to the number of players who play it, keep in mind that you're one of those who add to that number, so you must be also one of those who like it, stop pretending you don't like it! ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Kattla]

Because those other 2-3 ways of beating the horde night weren't intended, they were either exploits or cheap cop outs; such as digging a hole in the ground and hiding in it, going up on a roof top and then destroying the ladders, building a fence with certain blocks that confused the AI so that it was impossible for zombies to get you... etc.

 

Some people loved doing that, but truly speaking that's not what the intention of having a 7 day horde was.

 

What other methods are not exploiting zombie AI one way or another, save for facing them in the field?

Long paths with traps, yes they work, but are also clearly based on how the new AI works. And so

are funnels.

[Bubbahotetp]

Man, do you even have a heart? Stop breaking the statistics! It was said this is the best Alpha so far according to the number of players who play it, keep in mind that you're one of those who add to that number, so you must be also one of those who like it, stop pretending you don't like it! ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

The game also has been on the market the longest as of today, which means much more people have even bought it. You are comparing apples and oranges! The statistics? Anyone claiming "statistics don't lie" doesn't know much about statistics! If 1000 people owned the game at a16 and 50% played it -which makes for 500 active players, and now with a17 10000 people own the game and 10% play it - which makes for 1000 active players (because 90% aren't interested) then a17 is still more popular if you only go by the number who actually play it. If however you look at the percentage of owners who are/ are not playing it (90% in my example), then alone will you get a hint of how popular the game is now compared to a16. And just looking at the numbers of players playing - you can't know that.. You just have too little data to go on.

 

However, stating just because the number of players is higher in total that that means that the game now is more popular than at a16 is a statistical fallacy <- which is what has repeatedly been done here in recent days. It is being played. That's as much as you can say. You can't even say people like it or dislike it. It's new, even a lot of people who don't like what they see are playing it right now and giving it second, third and fourth chances. Some will come around, some won't. But you can't make any definitive statement from the numbers presented.

 

You can compare numbers from today in a month and see if the player number dropped. That's about all you can do as of now not knowing any previous numbers.

[giKoN]

The game also has been on the market the longest as of today, which means much more people have even bought it. You are comparing apples and oranges! The statistics? Anyone claiming "statistics don't lie" doesn't know much about statistics! If 1000 people owned the game at a16 and 50% played it -which makes for 500 active players, and now with a17 10000 people own the game and 10% play it - which makes for 1000 active players (because 90% aren't interested) then a17 is still more popular if you only go by the number who actually play it. If however you look at the percentage of owners who are/ are not playing it (90% in my example), then alone will you get a hint of how popular the game is now compared to a16. And just looking at the numbers of players playing - you can't know that.. You just have too little data to go on.

 

However, stating just because the number of players is higher in total that that means that the game now is more popular than at a16 is a statistical fallacy <- which is what has repeatedly been done here in recent days. It is being played. That's as much as you can say. You can't even say people like it or dislike it. It's new, even a lot of people who don't like what they see are playing it right now and giving it second, third and fourth chances. Some will come around, some won't. But you can't make any definitive statement from the numbers presented.

 

You can compare numbers from today in a month and see if the player number dropped. That's about all you can do as of now not knowing any previous numbers.

 

He was being ironic.

[Reth]

You may not have found alternative ways to play and to build but they are there and someone is bound to find them and share them with you if you don’t end up discovering them yourself.

The designs I and other people have tried *should* have worked. The reason they didn't is because TFP decided to effectively disable them.

 

Zombies should not tear through reinforced concrete with ease using bare hands. They shouldn't dig. That's just stupid and lazy. There are numerous other ways to add challenge to base building. Instead TFP made zombies into killer armored bots that shrug off multiple headshots and have no collision to boot. Cool stuff.

 

These forums are full of excellent suggestions on how to make base defense more challenging. Give soldiers some grenades so they explode if they can't reach you. Make more crawlers. Make fat zombies run and hit the wall like a battering ram. Make more birds. Make policeman's projectile vomit eat through concrete. Make burning zombies set your wooden base on fire. Make some zombies vulnerable to spike traps, others to barbed wire, others to bullets and so on. But enough of this armored stampede.

[mr.devolver]

The game also has been on the market the longest as of today, which means much more people have even bought it. You are comparing apples and oranges! The statistics? Anyone claiming "statistics don't lie" doesn't know much about statistics! If 1000 people owned the game at a16 and 50% played it -which makes for 500 active players, and now with a17 10000 people own the game and 10% play it - which makes for 1000 active players (because 90% aren't interested) then a17 is still more popular if you only go by the number who actually play it. If however you look at the percentage of owners who are/ are not playing it (90% in my example), then alone will you get a hint of how popular the game is now compared to a16. And just looking at the numbers of players playing - you can't know that.. You just have too little data to go on.

 

However, stating just because the number of players is higher in total that that means that the game now is more popular than at a16 is a statistical fallacy <- which is what has repeatedly been done here in recent days. It is being played. That's as much as you can say. You can't even say people like it or dislike it. It's new, even a lot of people who don't like what they see are playing it right now and giving it second, third and fourth chances. Some will come around, some won't. But you can't make any definitive statement from the numbers presented.

 

You can compare numbers from today in a month and see if the player number dropped. That's about all you can do as of now not knowing any previous numbers.

 

Ease off the pressure, slow down your wheels, and stay off the SPANK, my brethren. You want fight? Go buy yourself a gun. You want knowledge, get yourself a scientist. Enjoy, my brethren.

 

- Horace Walsh - The only pacifist in town

 

Remember,

obsessed with numbers are watching!

[Bubbahotetp]

We could add unicorns and a way to tame them so we can fly into oblivion. Many people would find that fun. Should it be added, then? No. Definitely not.

 

With this I'm trying to tell you that the game has a certain premise, and everything the game has should aim to support that premise. In this case, the game is called 7 Days to Die, because every 7 days you get a huge horde swarming you, and you're supposed to build a fortress and defend it against that horde. That's the main premise of the game.

 

If there's an exploit that allows the player to dig a 2 meter deep hole in the ground and hide in it every horde night, then that's something that needs to get removed, because it's not intended and completely ruins the premise of the game.

 

What's the point of having reinforced steel walls and electrified, bladed traps if you can fight off the horde with a Yucca wall? It's plainly dumb. Nobody would care about the high tier items and everybody who actually wants a challenge would become bored extremely fast. This isn't Garry's Mod, this isn't a silly sandbox "screwing-around" game. This game is aiming to be a challenging survival, tower defense game. Obviously, not every playstyle will be satisfied.

 

That's just how it is.

 

 

Horde - yes, straw man argument. You win by default, at least you thought you would. I spotted that though. I wasn't arguing against horde nights. And in case you think I didn't notice the horde nights, statistically I went through 685,71 horde nights since I started playing the game, calculating each day 50 min IRL time, thank you very much. I know what a horde night is, you don't have to belittle me. But who says I'm any better eh? (I'm not. Read on.)

 

"You're supposed to build a fortress..." I'm not buying that because it didn't say that anywhere at any time and doesn't now either. Where are you getting that from? I'm pretty sure I know where, don't tell me, it's where the sun doesn't shine much. If digging never was the point then explain to me why everyone could do so for lots of years? There is a huge discrepancy in what we are all of a sudden "supposed to do" (Says Who? anyway?) compared to what for years has been the norm. Why even put seams of ores into the ground. Dude - digging was never an exploit, it was part of the game. You banging your head against the wall screaming that it was never supposed to be like that isn't going to help your argument. You are not even being fair in your arguing, as if it is down to dishonest players and it being their fault that zombies couldn't dig properly before a17. It's TFPs fault! Like everything good or bad is their fault when it comes to the design of the game. So, with that said, all your complaints about chicken players that you've been making here and how everybody sucks at playing the game, maybe your real target of your complaints should have been TFP for the last 10 years or what ever. I hope it was, because if you haven't complained about this previously, you're just exposing yourself as being a hypocrite! Actually you are, but I'll come back to that in the end.

 

And just as an aside - I've actually had hordes dig down quite a bit already in a16. I guess you never tried. Can't knock it unless you tried it . I doubt you will however, the mere thought of it seems to offend you for some reason, and as long as not every single other player is completely deprived of the possibility of digging a hole to hide in, you disapprove of the players and the game. That's what you're getting at. Who's problem is that? Yours! Because you have the choice to do what ever you want, other players have their choices. They want a rabbit hole, they get their rabbit hole. It's still your personal problem. Is it because you can't find them an steal all their stuff? You can be all split naked, running around with your bare fists come horde night, knocking them all to the ground and feel good about it, what do you care if someone else wants to do it differently? From somewhere you get the urge to get all grumpy about people doing something different from what you're doing. But I don't wanna know about it or I'll have to start charging you money for therapy sessions. I have better things to do anyway so don't even PM me about it.

 

Also I think that your definition of the word fortress is not very accurate. Point out one fortress that didn't have deep cellars, unless the ground wasn't suitable for building those. They are called bunkers (because it's time for me now to tell you something you didn't know). So if everybody built a - fortress - just like you want it, would that be okay you think? Would that be acceptable? Can they play too then? Please? Pretty please with sugar on top? Hey everybody! Listen up! You have to check with Xtrakicking for your future planning permissions! Order now! Form a line right there!! You better know it! He'll get really pissed off if you don't submit your plans to him before hand! And don't you dare even putting down an LCB before he hasn't given you the go-ahead, okay? ... OKAY?? Quick now, let's get this line moving!

 

Look! The board is full of players who haven't become bored extremely fast, who are actually complaining. Maybe you didn't see them. Here is how to find those posts - just stop ignoring the 75% of posters who have been complaining in all the treads on here the last few days. Or maybe you just get a little honest and stop discrediting opinions that don't align with yours, because your way of argumentation here is wilfully misleading. You're pissed off about something, but I bet it ain't what you say it is, because this doesn't make any sense. Again -I don't wanna know. Keep it to yourself. It's not *my* problem.

 

You didn't get it when I talked about my prized Yukka wall, The Envy of the Seven Deserts it's also called (just to let you know, because me and my Yucca wall go way back and this is kinda personal! In a17 it's The Envy of the one Desert, of course.). But joking aside - if I actually wanted to build a wall of yucca plants to defend myself against a horde it would have to be going out from my base all the way to spawn distance and still that wouldn't be enough to hold off the zombies. (Makes me kinda feel like your mum telling you this). So what was my point with mentioning a yucca wall you say? My point was choice. *BADABING* Choice! The choice to TRY to do things however I want, and to be able to fail and try again. As things are now, you don't even have the choice to try (and subsequently fail). It's not possible because you lack the skills for it! Either they are turned off, or they are level gated and far far off in the future making the beginning of the game bland and ... boring.

 

But back to something else, because you said it best yourself, mate - quote "not every playstyle will be satisfied" so why did I even answer your post, since THAT is exactly what the game has always been: unsatisfying to you, for years, and if people can't complain about it now (But you can? About them? And their playstyle?), then do yourself a big favour: consider that for yourself and take your fingers off of your keyboard now, and clickadiclick your mouse out of this forum and go play a17 before it changes into the bad game you always hated. Hypocrite.

 

You want super challenging, only for the elite playaz tower defense? Why don't you go play Plants vs. Zombies then and leave us suckers who want some freedom of choice to wallow in our current misery.

Advertisement:

Plant's vs. Zombies! The game that does not feature digging players, nor does it leave any creative choice. It might just be right for you! Get it today!

[Bubbahotetp]

He was being ironic.

 

Sorry then mate. I take my statistics lesson back. I didn't mean it...

[RestInPieces]

Horde - yes, straw man argument....

 

Take a chill pill.

 

7 Days to Die is an open-world game that is a unique combination of first person shooter, survival horror, tower defense, and role-playing games.

 

Simply put, it doesn't take much brainz to realize that something which invalidates a game's core mechanic is considered an exploit. It is not the players' fault for using it, it was faulty/incomplete design which makes sense since it's an alpha.

 

You arent forced to spread those points out . You dont loose them if you dont spend them. You can just be patient and wait to spend them when you hit the level you need for what you want .

 

What does that even mean? If you don't spend them they will just get piled up and you will still eventually have to spread them.

[mr.devolver]

You arent forced to spread those points out . You dont loose them if you dont spend them. You can just be patient and wait to spend them when you hit the level you need for what you want .

 

You get 1 point for killing countless waves of zombies, you will need to think hard about what perk to use it for, otherwise you are going to be greatly disappointed, but if it starts to feel like there's not much to think about in the first place, because the skill you want to get is gated behind certain player level, you will know exactly what irritates people who complained about this. In several points in time, you will end up putting that 1 hard earned point to different perks than what you've been really saving it for, simply because there will be unexpected challenges along the way that will force you to spend it differently, just to alleviate the problem that just occured. This is mostly related to perks that boost your chance at survival and when this happens, it will necessarily open your eyes and make you see the naked truth that instead of unlocking the feature you really wanted, you spent long hours of tedious grind only to unlock something you didn't really want and it was just for sake of survival and maybe to buy yourself from the stupid threat brought up by your legendary rotten luck, but it's not necessarily your favorite feature you couldn't wait to unlock just to put some fun into that grind fest... This is what people are talking about. When they go through all that grind to finally earn 1 point, they at least want to be able to choose freely which skill / perk they want to unlock and if the game tells them: "Nope, you can't do that, because you're still not where we want you to be, so we can't let you unlock this yet", people get frustrated and that's understandable, because after long hours of tedious grind they realize that freedom of choice is actually only virtual in this version and people are also worried that this is going to be the final take on this part of the game by TFP and it is quite reasonable to think that way since it was said that this version is the closest they ever got to their original vision they had.

[Xtrakicking]

What other methods are not exploiting zombie AI one way or another, save for facing them in the field?

Long paths with traps, yes they work, but are also clearly based on how the new AI works. And so

are funnels.

 

An exploit is a way to take advantage of a flaw in the game to get what you want effortlessly. A path with traps isn't taking advantage of any flaw, you just placed traps where you predict they'll be walking, and that method will only protect you so far.

 

Digging a hole and jumping in it is taking advantage of the fact that zombies didn't have the ability to dig, so no matter the number of zombies they'd never get you. That's a flaw, thus an exploit.

 

There are plenty methods to beat the game without exploits.

[Xtrakicking]

SNIP SNIPS

 

Plants VS Zombies was a great game, actually.

[Poojam]

If you want to be able to do literally anything, you can. Edit the XMLs, enable the in-game editor, mod the ♥♥♥♥ out of everything... you have the ability to do those things.

 

But the "default" game experience is up to the devs to design.

 

 

XML mods can't fix the most important problems here. If you think so, then I don't think you've done much xml modding.

 

Multiple land claim blocks is apparently in the DLL's. I don't think we can mod that back in. That's the biggest server killer in A17e right now.

 

I don't know that we can add item and gun quality back or the parts. Hopefully with the attachments it will become as encouraging to scavenge as it was.

 

It will take a great deal of time to add biome and map diversity back into the RWGmixer. It may not be possible. Apparently it's changed a lot.

 

I don't think we can fix the zombie sleeper RE-spawns that are holy obnoxious.

I don't know if we can eliminate encumbrance, but we can likely reduce it's debuff.

I think we can make it so the player is not constantly hungry/thirsty and those assets tied to health and stamina. Not sure yet.

 

I don't think we can mod zombie block damage to make them not be great diggers without sacrificing their ability to be effective at exposed bases. We can reduce the magnitude of their effectiveness, which might be adequate.

 

I don't know if we can speed up the player's actions and agility to make it feel like you're not walking in soup.

 

We can free up all the inventory slots on day 1.

We can give the zombies loot.

We can make the default headshot multiplier matter again.

We can eliminate all of the level gates and rework the perks/attributes.

We can add stamina drinks and balance it out so they have utility again.

We can eliminate the death penalty.

We can add more animals.

We can give you a forge at level 1.

We can buff XP for digging/crafting/planting/exploring.

 

We can probably add books/recipes back into the game too so that there is another primary reason to scavenge.

 

The "we cannot's" are new problems this time around and are way more important to change than the "we can's". I'd like to think the "we can's" are obvious to fix too, but I understand if people have different opinions.

 

p.s. I never envisioned having to address these things, because some have been in the game since I started playing (A9). I thought most of them functioned fairly well in A15/A16 too. I was mostly satisfied playing the game with pvp-friendly mods that a lot of the servers were running. Not real satisfied. But mostly. Now with A17, the scale has flopped off the table and fell on the floor. There's no balancing this.

[Poojam]

 

There was always a period of time that you couldn’t build a forge. It used to be random. Then it was a day. Now it is somewhere between 5 - 10 days.

 

And what a great motivator that was for exploring the world for bookstores and fighting your way into/out of prefabs. Now. That's entirely gone.

 

edit - sometimes you got lucky and found a book early and it felt like a reward. sometimes you didn't and had to spend 2 game days searching. sometimes your friend saved you a copy, because it had value. sometimes you bought a copy from a player made vending machine that was put there by a guy that simply liked to build a qwik-e-mart in hub city and help the newbies. all of those things are now gone with one simple little change.

[Poojam]

Yup. The cabal of people who judge what is BadWrongFun have an approved playstyle, and all others are exploits to be removed from the game.

 

Can you just drive around all night in the jeep?

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

That's just how it is.

 

Right now.