End game, progression, multiplayer, and geography

[LorenzoMatterhorn]

Disclaimer: I'm not claiming this is unique idea, but I haven't seen the handling of "end game" mentioned recently. Question: How do you implement progression and end game content into a dedicated, persistent, multiplayer world? Possible answer: Take a page from nearly every mmorpg ever made and use geography! Explanation: In the single player game progression can be dependent on the day counter or the level of the character but in a multiplayer world these are less ideal for obvious reasons. New players might have an impossible time starting out on a server 1000 days in and everyone will have different character levels. A possible solution is to make zones or poi with greater difficulty separated geographically from other areas. That sentence was purposefully vague by the way. First off, I don't want to turn this into an mmorpg. I don't think that there should be "starter zones" that are boring for any seasoned player. Part of what's great right now is that if my character with 50 hrs of game time wants to play with a brand new player neither of us feel punished for it. I'd hate to see the area around 0,0 become a ghost town because it doesn't offer any challenge for veteran players. So the answer isn't that players are so much more powerful in end game that vanilla zombies aren't a threat, just that they are better equipped and more prepared. That said, I envision a system where harder zones and unique poi start to spawn past a certain distance from 0,0. As has been mentioned in the past, maybe a radiation zone that requires special (late game) equipment to enter and then you have a finite amount of time to get back out again (building up rad levels). Maybe there's a swamp biome with some awesome late game resources but it's always dark so zombies there always run. Maybe military gun parts only spawn past 1500 but special hard zombies guard the munitions boxes. Really the possibilities are endless but I think that explains the concept.

[CongoBongo]

I like that idea. Just drop harder zones into the map as it is now and we would be all set. They should be able to spawn in any location except the starting city biome. Maybe they are more rare then others but they would just be random. And like you said POI as well, have tough POIs with maybe huge underground systems that are full of zombies and require you to have certain items to enter. It would give you something to shoot for after gathering mostly everything. If you go one step further and have it so you need items to get into these biomes (like rad suit) then in that biome you find items needed for harder POI entry then you are well on your way to establishing end game. Dont make it so obvious though that you need to do this to do this so that you can do this type of thing. It has to feel like not such a chore or a grind.

[Drifter]

I think I've posted a similar idea in the forums for every [I]open world with biomes[/I] type game I've played. All of them, from Minecraft to 7 Days do a good enough job of letting the player become stronger but every last one of them does a piss poor job of presenting greater challenges for players to attempt. This creates an inverse difficulty curve which makes the first few hours of a new game the most exciting and the rest become boring. I created [URL="http://7daystodie.com/forums/showthread.php?16988-Biome-effects-and-more-dangerous-biomes"]a thread of my own[/URL] that didnt get any play but the TL/DR is similar what the OP is saying. I proposed there be specific status effects from some of the biomes and more dangerous versions of the existing biomes where these effects are more extreme. Biomes and locations could be made more dangerous by a number of factors that include the environment. Zombie numbers and stronger zombie types are an obvious factor. We know human bandits are coming so bandit territory and strongholds could offer a challenge. Because the maps can be so large now, these dangerous areas don't have to be located in any specific area either. There could be a very high danger biome close to the starting area on a server and it wouldn't be a problem. There is plenty of map to be explored in the other direction. Personally, I would love to have the tease of a high danger area and its loot nearby, providing me with motivation to gather the gear I need to storm it. I like CongoBongo's key items idea too. rad suits, gas masks, heavy insulated clothing etc..

[LorenzoMatterhorn]

Yeah, I've definitely seen this idea floated by other people who have thought it out a lot more than me. But I agree 100% that a lot of games seem to focus on rewarding players by making them more powerful but never increase the difficulty. If I can already one-shot every zombie in the game with a crossbow I won't see more powerful weapons as a reward. Now something awesome I thought of for the rad zones. Imagine your rad suit takes up all your armor slots so you have to go in with no armor. Without a rad suit you would die from radiation poisoning within seconds but with it you build up stacks of radiation poisoning slowly so that effectively you can be in the zone for 1 day before you start taking damage from the radiation. Upon exiting the rad zone you take several days for the debuff to wear off, so no going back for a while. And here's the best part... if you die in there you won't be able to easily get your stuff back. So you have to balance tough zombies, no armor, limited time, and the possibility of losing the good weapons you needed to take in to kill said zombies. How's that for a challenge?

[friedman]

Really like the rad zone. I would like that the radiation would have successive buffs. For example the first rad level buff would make you thirsty, then after some time, a new rad buff appear, let s say it reduce your view range and why not reduce your field of view, and it goes on until you get buffs that will directly affect your life points. Would really appreciate if some equipment would only reduce the speed at which the radiation buff are received. Like you could go into radiation zone without rad suit but you would definitively get bad buff faster. Really like the idea of "time medicine". I find it sad that we got magic potions that cure every negative buffs right away. No point in not taking risk catching a negative buff if you can cure it on the spot with your "magic" concoctions. It really make me mad seeing updates about "new upgraded player models" while there is still no real game. It s a nice sandbox but as far as I see it is only an upgraded version of Minecraft.

[Nidalas]

I think the pimps are already leaning toward zone difficulty. Just see how harder it is to raid the city than a desert camp the upcoming Weather system will also add biomedifficulty (difficulty to grow crops maybe, plus heat/thirst problems and so on) Zombs could also be affected, with rain days zombie becoming faster than on sunny days (which would render the city extremly hard), and so on

[Bakkie]

I really like the geography idea, as said, for example a swamp biome idea where zombies always run, or a rad zone only accessible with specific gear. But, is doesn't have to be dark as well, that's two times harder then normal ;-) Also, isn't it logical that in an army camp, the zombies are turned military men? With armor and possibly weapons? (And double kill count or something). Or a bank with a big ass vault, really, and I mean really, hard to get in, but loaded with ingots, 'guarded' by a lot of cops! These zones and prefabs spawned away from the starter zone only. That would be cool.

[CongoBongo]

Agreed Bakkie, although darkness gives some immersion it cant be overplayed everywhere. A rad zone to me would look almost untouched and perfect (except for the air quality) but other then that it should look untouched. Since no other humans would go in there or animals, the zombies inside would stay pretty dormant with nothing to peek their interests. That being said when they get a look at your walking hamburger ass they should flip out and do anything and everything to get at you. That would be realistic to me, and very tough to explore or loot anything with nutso flesh deprived zombies on your tail. I think the pimps are leaning towards this type of play. I do hope they put some awesome events inside these areas almost quest like but nothing so formal like an official quest. Like if you enter the area some zombies just start pouring out of every crack and crevice trying to get you, the waves could get harder and harder until you defeat the last one... a huge one maybe just 1 big ass zombie. Then you could enter the area with your rad suit and investigate where these zombies were coming from. Plenty of fun to be had with things like this. I really hope they have some end game stuff soon.

[Drawfox]

For end game, I would like to have an option to start and protect a village, and as it would be growing, I would have to extend walls, build more houses, expand farms, etc, and depending on the number of habitants, the supplies needs should be growing as well. But that's only my opnion.

[friedman]

[QUOTE=Drawfox;146385]For end game, I would like to have an option to start and protect a village, and as it would be growing, I would have to extend walls, build more houses, expand farms, etc, and depending on the number of habitants, the supplies needs should be growing as well. ...[/QUOTE] +1 to this

[whooplaah]

[QUOTE=Drawfox;146385]For end game, I would like to have an option to start and protect a village, and as it would be growing, I would have to extend walls, build more houses, expand farms, etc, and depending on the number of habitants, the supplies needs should be growing as well. But that's only my opnion.[/QUOTE] This is the type of gameplay I really like. It would be difficult to implement correctly, but it would be such a sweet game. Back to the original question: I think that before we talk too much about 'end game' we have to first decide what the story is. I've spitballed thoughts on servers to explain what happened to the world, but mostly they are funny explanations, not serious. So before we say 'There is this biome with tougher zombies' we have to ask, WHY is there a tougher biome with tougher zombies? Is it part of the mutagen's evolution and a new batch of infected? Is it part of the radiation interacting with infected? Is it another product of the insane company that made the zombie virus? Is it a cure-gone-horribly-wrong? Is it the gate to hell from which the zombie horde crawled out in the first place? When these questions are answered, and the story behind the virus plotted, then the late-game zones will be much easier to implement. Rather than the other way around. Afterthought: Also, since there is such a focus on crafting-and-building-a-base, making game progression depend on increasing your distance from spawn is a bad idea.