Why I find A17 tedious and bland compared to A16 (very long)

[Drakkar77]

I'm loving the changes, the new POIs and the new challenges.

They're fun....at first. At first I believe everyone thought they were, now level up to 100 and see if they keep that appeal. It gets a LOT more boring a LOT faster, imo anyway. Should have spent more time adding end game content instead of changing the entire game for the umpteenth time.

[Zourin]

The ratio between simple lootable POIs and the dungeons are way off. I walk into one house, and there is literally nothing inside. No dressers, maybe a cabinet, no furniture.. like wtf?

 

I didn't get a proper set of clothes 'till I saw the laundromat, and even then, I haven't seen a tank top in nearly two months.

 

Also, the there is this gross disconnect between the suburban POI's and the "Old West" POI's when they're all in the mix together. Further, why the hell is 4 out of every 5 wilderness POI some variation of the same damn tent farm or car fortress? There's never anything useful in them except maybe a working workbench or chem station.

[Vechs]

Agree about level gating.

 

Disagree about weapon quality -- mods make your weapon more powerful, in addition to doing another effect. Try painting your rifle black and watch the damage amount

 

The more mod slots, the more mods, the more damage.

[grieferbastard]

You liked killing zombies before. Well guess what, they only buffed the XP for killing zombies. They seriously nerfed the xp for mining/crafting/doing anything other than killing zombies. You wouldn't know what everyone is moaning about, because it didn't affect your playstyle.

 

I always lived and worked underground. Killing zombies was always dull because it was pointless. In the end, so was mining so I quit. I did crafting just it got dull.

 

Now resource collection has some more risks, killed nh zombies has independent value. Exploring POIs has been a lot of fun for me and very challenging, I'm level 118 and 41 days in. I would be totally fine with a better balance between crafting and fighting XP but hiding and spamming tools to level safely would have me uninstall pretty quick.

 

So whos fun is more virtuous? I'm a fan of letting people tweak it. I consider the POIs to be end game content, and bases and vehicles.

[Kalen]

I always lived and worked underground. Killing zombies was always dull because it was pointless. In the end, so was mining so I quit. I did crafting just it got dull.

 

Now resource collection has some more risks, killed nh zombies has independent value. Exploring POIs has been a lot of fun for me and very challenging, I'm level 118 and 41 days in. I would be totally fine with a better balance between crafting and fighting XP but hiding and spamming tools to level safely would have me uninstall pretty quick.

 

So whos fun is more virtuous? I'm a fan of letting people tweak it. I consider the POIs to be end game content, and bases and vehicles.

 

Wait, so if they added hiding and spamming tools to level it would make you quit? Wouldn't it be better to just not do those things and keep playing the way you enjoy?

[PoppaTot]

Wait, so if they added hiding and spamming tools to level it would make you quit? Wouldn't it be better to just not do those things and keep playing the way you enjoy?

 

This, I don't understand how the people who had their playstyle actually buffed have any issue with those that hate that theirs got significantly nerfed to the point uselessness. No one is saying (at least I'm not) to nerf the zombies, we just want to have our playstyles recognized as well instead of being completely ignored by the devs in a game we have put countless hours into.

 

EDIT: a word

[RestInPieces]

Wait, so if they added hiding and spamming tools to level it would make you quit? Wouldn't it be better to just not do those things and keep playing the way you enjoy?

 

The faster everyone understands that the game-imposed rules create gameplay and that "playing the way you enjoy" shouldn't be done using self-imposed rules that contradict those imposed by the game or the intended gameflow, the more substance will the conversations in this forum have.

 

I used to believe that TFP trended towards that misguided mindset during the last 1-2 alphas, but thankfully I was proven wrong, as the game was fleshed out in many ways in A17.

[wastelandstoic]

 

Anyone else think that A16 with just the new graphics, new vehicles and the new AI would have delivered a MUCH better A17 than what we got?

 

Yup.

Agree With OP on all points.

 

If this is the game they REALLY want to make, fine, but I won't be playing it.

 

Here's an idea, when you get this total U turn of a game to it's release stage (with quite a few less in the player base) put out a "what could have been" version based on A16 with just the added 'candy'. I'd even pay $9.99 for that version all over again.

 

C'est la vie.

[Poojam]

Yup.

Agree With OP on all points.

 

If this is the game they REALLY want to make, fine, but I won't be playing it.

 

Here's an idea, when you get this total U turn of a game to it's release stage (with quite a few less in the player base) put out a "what could have been" version based on A16 with just the added 'candy'. I'd even pay $9.99 for that version all over again.

 

C'est la vie.

 

 

Ya know, that's a really interesting way to look at it. I would pay for the game again too if we got A16's gameplay plus the candy added. I would ask for my money back if I bought A17.

[UbiquitousMoose]

I've tried not to, but I'm starting to agree with these concerns. If the direction of this experimental build is any indication of where this game is heading then I'm fearful that it's just going to deteriorate into a run & gun clone of itself.

[PoppaTot]

I've tried not to, but I'm starting to agree with these concerns. If the direction of this experimental build is any indication of where this game is heading then I'm fearful that it's just going to deteriorate into a run & gun clone of itself.

 

I fear that when it turns to that, it will just be another run-of-the-mill "bought it, played it, moved on"

[Ghostlight]

I guess I should update my own opinions now I've played a lot more. For one thing Stamina stops being a concern once you have points in the right perks. Eg I'm over level 90 now and Stamina has become an absolute non-issue. But yeah early game, it's still a killer.

 

Looting POIs is now a complete breeze as well and very little threat, but it took me 90 levels to get there.

[Raeph]

Agree with the OP!

[Kamuchi]

I agree with nearly all points aswel.

 

I played A16 to death and it was fun, having all the receipes behind the skillpoint grind is bland, annoying and absolutely boring.

I liked to build a nice furtified surface base that extended to deep underground with multiple levels, thinking I could do the thing I love I started digging from +44 elevation.

Cause of the horrible mining now, a few hours later I hit bedrock at -3, the monumental size wtf...

The encomuberment with 3 of the 5 rows is really aggrivating, befor we didn't have enough skill points as it was, now 60% of your inventory needs to be unlocked.

Stamina, I'll just say LOL...

Crafting weapons, seriously? A16 was great that you had to find pieces and improve your weapon over time, not to mention how valuable the auger was, now? just craft it...

Forge, tools, item qualities, xp gains all nerfed to hell and back several times, I like killing zombies, but I hate being forced to do it.

 

They took everything that was fun and turned it into a boring bland grind.

I will see what the final A17 release will be, but if it's the same crap as we have now I am done with this game for ever and will make an archive of A16.4 for just in case.

 

And not to forget you can't do surface things during the day and enjoy mining&building underground bases anymore.

 

Thanks TheNerfPimps, awesome job.

[Spider]

Anyone else think that A16 with just the new graphics, new vehicles and the new AI would have delivered a MUCH better A17 than what we got?

 

This is what they lead us to believe we were getting. At no point during telling us of all this new cool things they were working on to add to A17 over the last 1.5 years did they have the courage to tell us the dozens and dozens of things we would be losing to get these few new features. At any point in the last year and a half if they would have told us "Hay we are getting rid of leveling any skills by action or crafting" The 7D2D world would of exploded. Kind of like now.

 

 

O ya and for the record I also agree with all the OP's points, I just wish TFP did too.

[Masaana]

Agree with much of this, though I don't find the encumbrance thing quite as annoying and haven't found a mini-dungeon yet. I also think the perks system is a decent idea, I think it just needs some major tweaking.

 

The other thing you didn't mention that I think is absolutely stupid is the amount of food required for each recipe. 5 meat for 1 boiled meat? That's insanely stupid and something I hope to find a way to mod out soon.

 

Just edit the config file in recipes. That's what I do for items I feel are unnecessarily to much.

[Benjiro]

This is what they lead us to believe we were getting. At no point during telling us of all this new cool things they were working on to add to A17 over the last 1.5 years did they have the courage to tell us the dozens and dozens of things we would be losing to get these few new features. At any point in the last year and a half if they would have told us "Hay we are getting rid of leveling any skills by action or crafting" The 7D2D world would of exploded. Kind of like now.

 

 

O ya and for the record I also agree with all the OP's points, I just wish TFP did too.

 

Yep ... Now in all honesty. Plenty of us notice the move towards this system going back into A16. We cried about it and what did it get. Just more insults from TFP fanboys and moderators how spam crafting was broken ( when people proposed simple fixes, fixes that mods actually implemented and showed working ).

 

The reality was that TFPs already planned this move all the way back in A16.

 

I am still waiting for electricity upgrade for the last year and half. So many cool ideas about Electricity and its potential and what did we get. A bastardized game. Sure, it looks better and has better AI. But the gameplay is not 7D2D anymore. Just call it Fallout2D from now on.

 

A lot of posts complaining about A17 are not going to change anything in my opinion, just like with A16. TFP will "balance" the game but the gameplay is fixed and get a big F.U. middle finger from the Pimps to all the players who liked the old gameplay and mechanics.

 

I think its better for people like us to simply die out here because you can tell from A16 already, that our game play style is not wanted by the Pimps. We already paid for our copies of 7D2D, we are useless because we do not make any money for TFPs. Its all about the new revenue...

 

The way you might be able to go back to A16 is to stop opting in to A17e. It wasn’t an auto update. All you have to do is undo what you did to get A17e. Do you remember those steps you voluntarily followed?

 

Please be serious Roland. We already know that A17 is going to be shoved down people their throats. And like with A16, people need to vent their anger about this mess and where 7D2D moves towards. So telling people they can still play A16.4 is like telling people how they need to use mods in the future.

[aig]

I've played this since fairly early on but this is the first time I've ever posted anything mostly because it becomes a pointless childish argument most of the time.

 

I read quite a few of these posts and I have to say I agree with most of the points raised to a certain extent. Now I have adapted my play style for A17 and I'm level 13, died just the once, have a deep underground base have invested in stealth and I have a forge in a nearby house so I finally made a pot. Do I like the direction the game has gone, no not really but I can adapt if I choose to.

 

If this is the type of game they want then so be it. I for one have never had a game where I got so much from paying so little.

 

I've actually have been a programmer for almost 30 years and I couldn't write this game, I do mostly HPC and highly scalable systems work but I could optimise the heck out of the backend or memory usage. But I wouldn't know where to start when it came to the graphics. Whilst Unity is just another engine that does all of the boilerplate for you, it's a lot of work and a lot to learn, just like my job can be and whilst I could learn it, I also have to earn a living. So the developer comparisons are kind of pointless as they wouldn't be able to do my job either without significantly upskilling.

 

As for individual issues, to me it's the whole dumbing down I don't like. You can use a tool to death and repair infinitely and gone is the decrease in efficiency and the quality they added in an earlier version. That's just a math calculation, I don't see why it had to go. Gone is the weapon part quality and now you have generic weapons at each level you mod, why couldn't they have a mix of both? The tool quality range can be whatever you want it to be. It's like constraining one part of the system has led them to do the same for everything because they made it so generic and everything now has to have the same mechanics. Removal of scrapping bullets to pick what item you want from the scrapping. They now have named weapons with different attributes but it's really just a name value lookup that's pretty trivial and that also could have been applied to the previous system, it probably just needed some simple refactoring.

 

All of those things can be made generic without sacrificing those features, you just apply different extended rules for each new aspect of gameplay. You already have what an item breaks down into unless that is now always mech parts (not tested enough to be sure). Seems just so simplified now that it's taken away the complexity I enjoyed. It's like, hey focus on this cool new trap or mod, we've taken away the complexity to get there in the first place. Instead of lets build a weapon, lets improve the individual parts an now lets add a mod. It's like all weapons are now basic weapons that can be modded instead of also having complex weapons that can be modded. You can add complexity without making it a development maintenance nightmare. Good design and good units tests! Just inject in different behaviour from a factory.

 

Some argued it was too complex and a grind but now it's a pure grind. You can only level up by killing zombies or animals, XPs are too low on anything else. Granted base upgrades have some XP but not as much as killing. And if that's the kind of game they want then I can live with that however, not so long ago (a week or two) we were told it wasn't the kind of game where you just kill whatever comes your way. So why turn it into that? because you can't progress otherwise.

 

Over a year in and we have a prettier version with lots of gameplay mechanics removed and bugs reintroduced that had long since been quashed. At work, I under promise and over deliver. This is completely the opposite and it will always lead to unhappy customers. It's the reworking everything approach that has led to it a taking this long and b it disappointing so many. Adding the new features and graphics on top of a refactored existing system imo would have been much quicker and more rewarding gameplay wise. Of course, I don't know how bad the previous code was but I still think I could have refactored in place and then some.

 

At the end of the day, as customers, we can choose to adapt to A17 or we can play something else. We all have different opinions and views, mine no more correct than anyone else's and I wont argue with anyone over something that in the grand scheme of things doesn't affect my life.

 

BUT!, I can't help but wonder what this could have been!.