Why I find A17 tedious and bland compared to A16 (very long)

[Noompsie]

OMFG!!!! Thank you OP, very well said everything. But here I've known since A14 that the problem is the COE. He's not a gamer. he's little less then a noob. he can't aim or use any kind of skill. So how does TFP CEO know anything about end game. He doesn't so he just keeps making early and mid game take longer. And take away opinions from us on how we want to play.... No, bad customer, you have to play the way i tell you. Now kill 12 thousand zombies to get to lvl 20. I have literally taken everything else out of the game that gives you XP. And Jesus!!! STOP ♥♥♥♥ING WITH STAMINA!!!!!!!!!! we don't want to play 7 days of walking. Revert it!!! revert it and buff it!!!!. make zombies faster if it makes you feel better. but no one wants a 45 min trip to the nearest town. Hunger is the fking worst. FIX IT!!!! Why is my hunger tied in to stamina! In real life i eat once a day and climb 300 ft towers for 16 hours before i start feeling tired and not as energetic. Why in 7 days can i 100% full up on food and before i step out my door of my destroyed base, i'm already at 90% stamina!! TFP do you even care if your game is enjoyable? did you guys even play this game without godmode on? Try it. It's not a game it's a chore. A horrible chore at that.

 

7 Days of Walking. Literally rolling on the floor, peeing my pants, laughing. Nailed it.

[wacojitsu]

Attitude is everything guys. I think we would have a nice proper communication and relationship line established between dev and playerbase if we also do our part. I agree with a lot of these points but cannot for the life of me want to listen to someone who is just freaking out and blaring like its the end of the world.

 

Think about how exhaustive this is on a dev team. And how they'll more likely just retort instead of taking your post seriously.

 

 

Don't worry chino, they ignored you too. The dev's don't care. they don't read. they have yet to ever revert anything that the player base hated. they stick to their guns every time. and it sucks because they are not gamers at all. They just keep nerfing the game over and over agian to make early/mid game last longer because they don't know how to make a end game.

[DaVegaNL]

Don't worry chino, they ignored you too. The dev's don't care. they don't read. they have yet to ever revert anything that the player base hated. they stick to their guns every time. and it sucks because they are not gamers at all. They just keep nerfing the game over and over agian to make early/mid game last longer because they don't know how to make a end game.

 

Wow, such hate man.

 

But I clearly see you are new to the game; welcome!

 

And I see you like easy games; you can always revert back to A16.4.

[SickPuppy]

Some of you are missing the point about comparing with a16 system. It's not the difficulty of unlocking the forge or iron tools, this is fine. The slower pace of leveling up is also fine. It's the way you get them that doesn't feel satisfactory.

 

Example

A16 you wanted to be good with blades you had to use bladed weapons, this levels up and gets a little stronger with time. And then after reaching a certain level you can unlock special blade bonuses just like A17.

 

A17 you can punch grass all week if you want then unlock special blade bonuses. There is a huge gap missing in acquiring these blade bonuses and personally I feel a lot less connected to the character I want to build.

[EzunaAranna]

Attitude is everything guys. I think we would have a nice proper communication and relationship line established between dev and playerbase if we also do our part. I agree with a lot of these points but cannot for the life of me want to listen to someone who is just freaking out and blaring like its the end of the world.

 

Think about how exhaustive this is on a dev team. And how they'll more likely just retort instead of taking your post seriously.

 

I too want the gates removed. I too feel the biggest gripe is how everything is so tied to level now. It takes away from the sandbox and replay. Basically I just try to get all my stats to 3 before lvl 20 and instead of giving us the opportunity to grow in different ways, we are tied down to spending points all over the place in places we are not gated from.

 

A16 had really scattered drunk zombies that didn't want to eat. It got extremely boring. On that front A17 is so much better. I've always complained how early you can just head shot and one hit a zombie no matter what difficulty mode. I love that the zombies feel like zombies. They just want to keep going after you (By the way... looking at your skill points in a basement of some POI is bad news lol).

 

The weapon mods are really good addition in A17. And yes, I dislike the magazines too. But mostly because I haven't figured out to use them effectively yet. So that is something I will reserve for later.

 

The pacing has changed. Some of it is bad I agree. But this is why A17 is on the experimental branch? They changed a lot of things and hopefully we can give them the feedback they need to make the game better for all of us. Please try to be constructive. I can post all day on any forum and not get all bent out of shape. Let's communicate effectively and let TFP make the changes needed to make A17 more into what we want!

 

 

NO NO AND NO.

 

 

No mans sky was a disaster and got flamed to hell and back.

 

 

Result = DEVS LISTENED TO THEIR PAYING CUSTOMERS AND WORKED THEIR ASSES OFF TO DELIVER 100% ON PROMISES. Not only that but they're adding new features and content and the game is actually really good now.

 

 

Saying that "If only we said things more politely and we'd be listened to" is utter bull♥♥♥♥.

 

Mad Mole - get yer head out of yer ass, stop abusing the money we gave YOU and LISTEN to your paying customers.

 

 

Get a LONG TERM PLAN together and stop waking up and just deciding to change things on a whim based on what colour of cheese you had for supper the night before.

[bloom_meister]

Wow, such hate man.

 

But I clearly see you are new to the game; welcome!

 

And I see you like easy games; you can always revert back to A16.4.

 

Its not hate its simple facts

[Zourin]

The version is aggravating, tedious, [OUT OF STAMINA], constantly feels like the game [OUT OF STAMINA] is holding you back [OUT OF STAMINA] like some kind of ripoff [OUT OF STAMINA] mobile game [OUT OF STAMINA] about to suggest [OUT OF STAMINA] a cash shop [OUT OF STAMINA] item for your [OUT OF STAMINA] problems.

 

It's been LONG, LONG known that 7DTD doesn't start until you have a forge. Now you have to not only [OUT OF STAMINA] for 7 damn hours, but do so knowing you can't do anything reasonably productive until that magic level 20.

 

That's not even touching how tedious it is now to clear POI's, each of them with nearly 5x as many zombies as it has any reasonable right to hold. What's worse, is you can't even pick out "easy" POI's. One minute you're banging on a hobo shack expecting 4-5 zombies to come out, the next you're thirty minutes into The Darkest Dungeon, slogging through four dozen zombies with crap for loot praying some god takes mercy and ends it before 10pm.

 

Despite everything the game has to offer, it forces you through that slog because it's the only way to progress. you MUST destroy nearly every zombie you see or you don't get anything else except rocks on sticks. 7DTD vets weren't born yesterday, and we all know you can't build or fortify a breakfast with those tools, much less a base.

 

The learning curve for 7DTD was more fun in A16. Step 1: Learn the importance and versatility of iron tools. Step 2: Put in effort to advance. Step 3: Be creative with your solutions against a clearly superior enemy.

 

Now it's: Step 1: Slog elbow deep through zombies with a stick. Step 2: Try to catch up for a lost week in a game with zombies that could kick Superman's ass on a Sunday. Step 3: Fail anyway because the devs decided to counter player solutions AND remove early defense capabilities.

 

I've said it once, i'll say it again. It is BAD DESIGN for a game developer to attack reasonable player solutions to the existing problem of succeeding in their game environment. Continuously doing so only leads to a bad game where the only solution to success is, or is close to, outright exploitation of your game rather than 'playing by your rules' (because the rules say "You're not allowed to win'). This is why we have 9 different varieties of SUPER-zombie. All zombies shred wood. Workers and Fats destroy steel and concrete like a ham sandwich. Ferals sprint. Irradiateds soak.

 

The odds and numbers are so stacked people gave up trying to find a solution to winning and started finding solutions to avoid it entirely. Hence, Pillared bases and bunkers. Now what? Lets keep the super-zombies as-is, let's remove early game defensive options, AND lets nerf player advancement to the stone age. There's never been a point where someone said "Ok, so how should we expect a player to win." It's always been "How do we stop them from winning?"

 

The game has been around for over five years. OF COURSE you're going to have every uncle and grandma's sugar baby reading the wikis and videos for the tried and true solutions, and of course you're going to have them on the forums whining about how having the solution to the puzzle makes it too easy.

 

"OH NO! Players are leveling up by CRAFTING. We better change that so they only get 1 xp from crafting/harvesting, but 700 from fighting zombies with sticks!" Pretty much sums up the time between A16's launch and now

 

The game needs to slow its roll a bit and figure out whether it's trying to entertain us or trying to 1-up us.

[Batman!]

....Are we really shining a more favorable light on No Mans Sky over 7 Days to Die? Smh

....Are we playing the same game? Dunno about you guys, but I'm having a blast with A17.

 

I think the worst decision is the level gating but it's nothing that can't be modded out, same with stamina.

Which, btw, is now easier than ever with xpath.

[SxR]

... does anyone actually recall a Pimp Dream actually going into the game? :f

 

It all does seem quite close minded now that I think on it.

 

But, it's experimental however so.. don't fly off too quick.. more changes to come. I just hope it's possible to one/two-hit stone again.

[Reth]

+1 to OP on pretty much all points.

 

POI mini-dungeons. How very exciting. Zombies hiding in walls? How did they get there, exactly?

 

Schematics are gated by perks, which are gated by attributes, which are gated by levels, which are gated by zombie kills.

 

This is what happens when you stop listening to critique and only listen to praise.

[thraka]

He's quite right though

It's sort of obvious if you have a bit of game dev experience

 

Agreed. It's also not the first time it's been done to this game.

[EzunaAranna]

....Are we really shining a more favorable light on No Mans Sky over 7 Days to Die? Smh

....Are we playing the same game? Dunno about you guys, but I'm having a blast with A17.

 

I think the worst decision is the level gating but it's nothing that can't be modded out, same with stamina.

Which, btw, is now easier than ever with xpath.

 

YES - In terms of ONE THING ONLY.

 

THE WAY THAT THE DEVS REACTED TO BAD CRITICISM, AND TURNED THE GAME AROUND, LISTENED TO THEIR FANS AND GAVE THEM WHAT THEY'D ASKED FOR.

 

On that ONE point the No Mans Sky devs have left Mad Mole and his merry band in the dust.

[thraka]

I agree with most things the OP said. But the single most blaring thing is stamina based on the hunger bar. It should be based on a 1/4 of the hunger bar at most for regeneration purposes only, stamina is the single most important stat in 7d2d. Damage to the stamina bar just makes 7d2d unplayable. Jumping in the air 4 times = a completely drained stamina bar, what are our characters completely out of shape or something? Hell, even if you're completely out of shape that's still a huge over exaggeration.

 

Yup. Pretty much everything else would be tolerable if the stamina issue was fixed. I can't even begin to understand under what theory of game design it is acceptable to force the player to often and repeatedly stand and do nothing, but whoever is making those calls is way off target. Many of the decisions about stamina seem directly geared at forcing player behavior down particular routes. Jumping, specifically, was something a lot of people used to circumvent being slowed down by hills. Instead of fixing that, someone just slapped on that jumping devastates your stamina, which has really bad side effects. If you're running from something and jump over an obstacle, bam, your stamina is devastated. And who decided AIMING would drain my stamina? REALLY? It's like no one even thought about these changes, much less tested them.

 

This started with the casual decision in a previous alpha to wreck stamina on iron and steel tools, again as a means of controlling player behavior the devs deemed 'BadWrongFun'. It was deemed improper that some players would focus on advancing tech instead of wallowing in the mud for a week or so, and thus punishing mechanics were added to make it undesirable until players could afford perks to offset a something that should never have been added.

 

Forcing players to do NOTHING, or adding drudgery as a means of control, is terrible design. It's boring and tedious. Now it's everywhere.

[DaVegaNL]

Seems to me that this thread shows once again people can't handle change.

 

Oh, a game is now more difficult you say? Boo-hoo.

 

I've been playing since A8-ish, and this is the first time the game is difficult. Period.

Do you guys still remember A16.4, where you played maybe 1-2 weeks, and then quitted the game, because there was nothing to do?

[Vaeliorin]

Seems to me that this thread shows once again people can't handle change.

 

Oh, a game is now more difficult you say? Boo-hoo.

 

I've been playing since A8-ish, and this is the first time the game is difficult. Period.

Do you guys still remember A16.4, where you played maybe 1-2 weeks, and then quitted the game, because there was nothing to do?

The game isn't more difficult, it's just more boring.

 

Here's one of my recent bases from A16.4 WotW 5.2 (yes, I was playing War of the Walkers, yes I'm a filthy casual, whatever)

[ATTACH=CONFIG]25511[/ATTACH]

That's on Day 37, and I play on 2 hour days. That means I've got almost 75 hours in that save, and probably at least another 30-40 hours just working on that base until it's done.

 

What would that take me now in A17? Remember, it was WotW, so it was easier to get good, effective tools. Maybe 150-200 hours? Some people might want to spend that on one save, on one base, but that doesn't sound that enthralling to me.

 

So, if you quit after 1-2 weeks, good for you. For me, I usually haven't even really gotten started until after day 14. Now, who knows what day I'd actually be getting to what is, for me, the fun part of the game.

[Poutre]

Who are these guys queuing up here to insult the devs ?

Like have you ever worked on something for 10 years ?

Just to get some anonymous guy telling you what you made is "absolutely idiotic" ?

 

Get a life mates. This game is 15 bucks and there are things you pay a lot less cheaper and don't complain about.

[Ghostlight]

Oh, a game is now more difficult you say? Boo-hoo.

 

Nope. that's precisely not what I said.

[badmojo]

Seems to me that this thread shows once again people can't handle change.

 

Oh, a game is now more difficult you say? Boo-hoo.

 

I've been playing since A8-ish, and this is the first time the game is difficult. Period.

Do you guys still remember A16.4, where you played maybe 1-2 weeks, and then quitted the game, because there was nothing to do?

 

What is there to do in A17 after a couple weeks of playing? Grind for a few more weeks to unlock more mediocre stuff? How exciting. This is still the same game as a16, but now with more grinding, not more progression. There is pretty much the same content as a16, it just takes longer to get to the same lack of things to do. Its a great change for people who only want to play 7dtd, but for the vast majority of regular players with other game options, this amount of grinding will only push us away from playing.

 

Replaying the game has changed from a journey that was different everytime because of the RNG looting and multiple avenues to progress. It now seems to follow the standard MMORPG grind of rolling a new character, you literally have to do the exact same thing as every previous playthrough. You might find a fancy tool or weapon sooner, but that is like an enemy dropping a nice sword in an MMORPG, it doesnt change the fact that you still have to kill X number of enemies to progress.

 

Personally I have spent thousands of hours playing Elder Scrolls Online, an mmorpg, and in doing so I created 15 characters and leveled them all to max level, which is quite a time investment and not commom aming players of ESO. Mostly only the hardcore players roll so many alts due to the time required. I mention this to show that I am not opposed to long intensive grinds that involve doing the same things over and over. I grinded it out over and over in ESO because there were different classes and roles, meaning each character ended up playing vastly different than each other. There is also quite a bit of endgame content, so you are rewarded for your hard work by accessing content that was designed for your max level status.

 

In 7dtd, we have no end game to really speak of, yet we are forced into a long grind every time we join (or start) a new game. Max level characters in 7dtd all end up playing roughly the same way. Sure, you can invest heavily in one area, but the way things are setup, if 'A' is better than 'B' why would anyone ever invest in 'B'? So we end up playing a game with this huge grind and perk system that only serves to slow down progression in order to drag out the game. We are rewarded for our grinding for weeks with boredom due to a lack of end game? That's your idea of enjoyable difficulty? This is like playing Super Mario where you have to replay each level multiple times before the next is unlocked, great idea for mario addicts and fanboys, but regular players are going to circumvent the system, or simply find a more enjoyable game to play. Neither of which are good for the game, mods should enhance the game, not make it bareable.

[Hadecro]

I've played new alpha for an hour today, planning to play more later. Seems ok, there are some movement stutters that need to be fixed, vultures should be removed/remodeled because they look cheap. I've met a dog in a POI and ohboi; i was so fookin scared once again.

 

Torch is kinda overpowered, 5-6-7 headshots to zombie to kill it. (warrior difficulty)

 

So far, it looks good :]

 

Oh yes, i've been at trader's place, i saw magazines to buy. What the hell is that magazine reading 30 minutes buff ♥♥♥♥ ? Pls remove that.

[METALmurderer]

NO NO AND NO.

 

 

No mans sky was a disaster and got flamed to hell and back.

 

 

Result = DEVS LISTENED TO THEIR PAYING CUSTOMERS AND WORKED THEIR ASSES OFF TO DELIVER 100% ON PROMISES. Not only that but they're adding new features and content and the game is actually really good now.

 

 

Saying that "If only we said things more politely and we'd be listened to" is utter bull♥♥♥♥.

 

Mad Mole - get yer head out of yer ass, stop abusing the money we gave YOU and LISTEN to your paying customers.

 

 

Get a LONG TERM PLAN together and stop waking up and just deciding to change things on a whim based on what colour of cheese you had for supper the night before.

 

NMS faced a class action lawsuit for blatant false advertising and lying to customers... You are aware or this, yes?

[Kam R.]

Who are these guys queuing up here to insult the devs ?

Like have you ever worked on something for 10 years ?

Just to get some anonymous guy telling you what you made is "absolutely idiotic" ?

 

Get a life mates. This game is 15 bucks and there are things you pay a lot less cheaper and don't complain about.

Are you a blue check mark game journalist or something?

Who are you to tell the vast and varied fanbase of this game to "get a life"? How is that even relevant to the subject matters at hand?

 

Some may have some harsher tone to what they are saying, but many of the concerns issued over the last 2 days are quite valid ones and the makers of this game in a way asked for feedback. This is what happens in early access. It's a mess and needs to be handled right. Are you not mature enough to mentally filter out some rougher (and arguably less constructive) posts while reading?

 

Also: I'm not your mate, pal.

[MaliciousMeatloaf]

NO NO AND NO.

 

 

No mans sky was a disaster and got flamed to hell and back.

 

 

Result = DEVS LISTENED TO THEIR PAYING CUSTOMERS AND WORKED THEIR ASSES OFF TO DELIVER 100% ON PROMISES. Not only that but they're adding new features and content and the game is actually really good now.

 

 

Saying that "If only we said things more politely and we'd be listened to" is utter bull♥♥♥♥.

 

Mad Mole - get yer head out of yer ass, stop abusing the money we gave YOU and LISTEN to your paying customers.

 

 

Get a LONG TERM PLAN together and stop waking up and just deciding to change things on a whim based on what colour of cheese you had for supper the night before.

 

Self entitled much? Get your head out of your own ass. You're 8-25 bucks doesn't amount to enough for you to run your mouth like you are. You didn't GIVE anyone money, you bought a product AS IS at the time of purchase. Quit acting like you have some massive wave of people that agree with you. Last I recall there are way more people playing than complaining. So maybe you guys that don't like it are the ones that are wrong. Ever think of that? Now shut the ♥♥♥♥ up with your tantrum throwing you big ass baby.

[Jeraal]

The version is aggravating, tedious, [OUT OF STAMINA], constantly feels like the game [OUT OF STAMINA] is holding you back [OUT OF STAMINA] like some kind of ripoff [OUT OF STAMINA] mobile game [OUT OF STAMINA] about to suggest [OUT OF STAMINA] a cash shop [OUT OF STAMINA] item for your [OUT OF STAMINA] problems.

 

It's been LONG, LONG known that 7DTD doesn't start until you have a forge. Now you have to not only [OUT OF STAMINA] for 7 damn hours, but do so knowing you can't do anything reasonably productive until that magic level 20.

 

(snip)...

 

I would love to write a long post agreeing with you, but I'm out of stamina!

[MaliciousMeatloaf]

Are you a blue check mark game journalist or something?

Who are you to tell the vast and varied fanbase of this game to "get a life"? How is that even relevant to the subject matters at hand?

 

Some may have some harsher tone to what they are saying, but many of the concerns issued over the last 2 days are quite valid ones and the makers of this game in a way asked for feedback. This is what happens in early access. It's a mess and needs to be handled right. Are you not mature enough to mentally filter out some rougher (and arguably less constructive) posts while reading?

 

Also: I'm not your mate, pal.

 

He's saying you are all going overboard with your mouths(text) in relation to the perceived slight against you. Nothing was done to directly piss you off but you guys talk like you want a fight. Show some respect and stop with this Customer is always right bull♥♥♥♥. It's not true, never has been true, and we ALL know we don't know exactly what it is we want and we ALL tend to overreact emotionally when we like something and it's changed slightly.

 

Look at Doctor Who recently, a lot of neckbeards raged and stopped watching because the dr became a female. STILL a great show, it's just some people can't take change. To all of them I say, tough ♥♥♥♥, grow a pair, there are a ton of worse things in life to be upset about.

 

The mechanics of a game changing is NOT worth insulting others over and just shows that you don't handle your own life for ♥♥♥♥ because you have ZERO emotional control. Maybe stop thinking some other tantrum thowing brat agreeing with you makes you correct.

 

Two kids throwing a fit in a store doesn't make them right all of a sudden now does it? Be polite or be ignored, it's that simple, well simple if you are an adult and have an IQ over 50 that is...

[KeiraR]

He's saying you are all going overboard with your mouths(text) in relation to the perceived slight against you. Nothing was done to directly piss you off but you guys talk like you want a fight. Show some respect and stop with this Customer is always right bull♥♥♥♥. It's not true, never has been true, and we ALL know we don't know exactly what it is we want and we ALL tend to overreact emotionally when we like something and it's changed slightly.

 

Look at Doctor Who recently, a lot of neckbeards raged and stopped watching because the dr became a female. STILL a great show, it's just some people can't take change. To all of them I say, tough ♥♥♥♥, grow a pair, there are a ton of worse things in life to be upset about.

 

The mechanics of a game changing is NOT worth insulting others over and just shows that you don't handle your own life for ♥♥♥♥ because you have ZERO emotional control. Maybe stop thinking some other tantrum thowing brat agreeing with you makes you correct.

 

Two kids throwing a fit in a store doesn't make them right all of a sudden now does it? Be polite or be ignored, it's that simple, well simple if you are an adult and have an IQ over 50 that is...

 

What about if you know unity and you have been coding for over 30 years in just about every language you can think of

What about if you were studying game programming when you had to write your own engine?

What about if you actually can see they are a bunch of amateurs that got a promotion to masters of the universe by people that don't know jack about game development, like yourself apparently.

Can you say something then? Or, just be a fanboi and shut up?

There are lots of people here that know how game dev works and most, if not all, see right through the bs.

Then there are people that know nothing and try to talk everything these guys do straight.

Maybe we should give them another year to "fix" things...

I'm getting sick of all the numpties thinking they know something because they PLAY games.