ability to Dig down for zombies. WHY

[gcomerfo]

This digging debate may never die, and one side or other will always be unhappy.

 

Who has been here since A1 - A3 days?? Zombies originally used to always do anything to get you including dig up tons of terrain. It was terrifying and nerve wracking (but fun too). Lots of people did not like the digging because you could never get a break anywhere.

 

Then at some alpha they made them stop digging, and it lasted for many alphas. Lots of people wanted the digging back in again. Said, it makes the underground base to OP.

 

So, we can never please anyone. Best thing - just mod the game to how you like it...

[Ranger_Ric]

"Know this... You upset a portion of your userbase at your own peril."

 

That can't be helped unfortunately. Development means change and portions of the userbase are going to hate different changes and even the fact that no change was made in other areas. Sorry you are upset and I hope that you get an option that makes the game fun for you or that you are open to modding because I'm certain there will be a mod that removes digging zombies.

 

 

This pretty much says it all.

 

 

Enjoy your dwindling userbase but don't worry... you will always have your toxic fanboy base here. If it's any consolation, there are still a handful of Quake 1 fanboys out there still playing it so no game ever dies completely.

 

Personally, I am going to enjoy watching this game fade into obscurity.

[OnlyMeiya]

Wow...I've never really though about this. On the one hand it's unrealistic and immersion-breaking to have zombies digging through solid rock, but on the other hand it's necessary for play-balance in a survival-type game, but on the other hand since this is in fact an open-ended game (i.e. not a puzzle, or story-drive game), shouldn't players be able to enjoy it in whichever way they choose? On the other hand if you don't have some standards laid out in a core game, then comparison between experiences becomes impossible.

 

I'm pretty amazed that nobody's EVER brought up this issue before. It profoundly impacts the very soul of 7D2D.

 

 

-Morloc

 

Its been something many players have talked about for ages.

 

Personally I don't think its a great idea to have them punch all the way to bed rock, then the player eventually has to deal with hard to see mini-holes all the way to bedrock, that causes really unfair nearly instant death situations just because they wanted to build an underground base.

 

Its already bad enough they super crippled ladder climbing speed.

[Jugginator]

Lol I love how nieve people can be. "OMG this chart clearly shows the opinion of every single player of this game so therefore it's 100% accurate of the feelings of the entire fan base!" Do you really think the entire gaming population has played the game yet? It's about atracting new players, and the very dull A16/15 versions only kept the small bit of players who enjoyed sitting behind walls with no threat happy, expanding the intensity of fear/challenge will attract more people than the other way around. I've seen huge servers that died in 16 revitalize in 17 and are constantly 48/50 or full, and players on my steam list are playing again. Not every single gamer leaves a review, and 80% of those reviews are worthless. Been a known thing since forever in any game.

[crazyduck]

Just for kicks in A15 I removed the AI Tasks of destroy doors and destroy blocks. On horde night they just pressed up against the walls of my base and I was perfectly safe. Not a single one beat against the wall. The next morning I went outside and easily killed them all as walkers. One time I was surrounded but I just nerdpoled straight up five blocks and was safe.

 

It was super boring.

 

Zombies in this universe can destroy wood, rock, and concrete and as such it makes perfect sense that they can destroy dirt, gravel, and rock. A17 is more consistent than A16 for zombie abilities and the game is far more interesting and challenging. Maybe you'll be able to remove their task to destroy blocks in A17 but you'll have to look for that as I'm not interested enough in that kind of mod to make the effort.

 

Nice that you did that, open the AI Tasks for Modding so peopel can enable or disable AI Tasks as they want for MP or SP Games.

Should not be that hard to add a Line to Entityclasses.xml or more then 1 Line to make some AI Stuff a Config Setting.

 

But to be honest , there shoudl eb some sort of Risk to build underground but digging Zombies looks like the Easy way for me.

Easiest thing to add but not a good thing.

 

Oxygen, Sunlight, Temperature, Underground living Enemies all this would be also possible Solutions to make Underground Base a Risk.

 

Make Generators only work on Surface not underground, add something like Oxygen or Temperature and the need to a working Generator to survive underground.

people would need to go to surface to refuel or to get fuel.

 

And this entire 7days Horde Bloodmoon stuff People who dont like to fight the Bloodmoon Horde currently only logout and wait until its Daytime again cause if someone dont want to fight the bloodmoon horde this people will not fight the bloodmoon horde.

 

so what is better ? Force this People to logout or give them a way to stay underground and out of Range of this Horde or other Zombies as long as you stay quiet?

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

Lol I love how nieve people can be. "OMG this chart clearly shows the opinion of every single player of this game so therefore it's 100% accurate of the feelings of the entire fan base!" Do you really think the entire gaming population has played the game yet? It's about atracting new players, and the very dull A16/15 versions only kept the small bit of players who enjoyed sitting behind walls with no threat happy, expanding the intensity of fear/challenge will attract more people than the other way around. I've seen huge servers that died in 16 revitalize in 17 and are constantly 48/50 or full, and players on my steam list are playing again. Not every single gamer leaves a review, and 80% of those reviews are worthless. Been a known thing since forever in any game.

 

Sure many People who stopped playing in 16 are now back in 17.

But you forget one thing.

Many People who quit during Alpha 15 and 16 did this cause the game was not enough easy way Pew Pew and too much crafting and not easy Mode Learn Everything with more Pew Pew. So yes this People now come back at same time the people who dont want to leearn Cooking and Forging with Zombie PewPew possible stop playing until its modded enough to be interesting again.

[skullpoker]

Because its a game with ZOMBIES.

Its not realistic.

 

Its also SPECIFICALLY to flush you out to the surface to actually participate in blood moon hordes, you bedrock dwelling rats.

 

Nub, if you go to bedrock at a point where it is outside of sensing/spawning radius, you will be entirely safe. That's not the point at all.

 

It's to shut the whine-nubz up so they quit bitching about people who make their base at bedrock. Most of whom make their base there to keep their harvested goods safe from wandering hordes(that will knock a whole tower base down in a couple minutes) and spend the rest of the time above ground unless they're doing something specific like digging tunnels or mining up resources.

 

Not to mention how much faster zombies swing at the blocks under them than in front of them. If you are below a zombie in a house, you hear them swinging 2-3 times as often as you would if you were behind a door. Brokenfail mechanic is broken and fail.

[OzHawkeye]

This pretty much says it all.

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]26741[/ATTACH]

 

Enjoy your dwindling userbase but don't worry... you will always have your toxic fanboy base here. If it's any consolation, there are still a handful of Quake 1 fanboys out there still playing it so no game ever dies completely.

 

Personally, I am going to enjoy watching this game fade into obscurity.

 

Yeah, because we all know every single one of those negative reviews was due to digging zombies........

[OnlyMeiya]

My objective is however, to how to make an underground base where horde can still flood in to attack at me without them choosing to just burst through the ground perpetually? I have various ideas to incorporate trap design specific hallways and paths to kill the funneling hordelings but would that design even work with the way they just dig straight down?

 

2 wide slanted garage like entrance? 4? 8? How must I build to keep the designs I want without horde AI cheesing my base. Thats my issue with the digging.

 

When it comes to digging the AI sorta seem to think as clearly as its intended pathing could literally be around the corner but they will still kneel and smack a wooden fence or block if you're under them but not obstructed by anything.

 

So who is to say even if I give them an unobstructed pathway to my front gate, they would decide to run towards it down the tunneled slope rather than just squat and smack the ground forever, thats inconvenient even for me because I want to kill them, then I have to locate and repair the darn holes they made, thats super annoying even if Im not trying to cheese the game, will it still cheese me?

[Guppycur]

Personally, I am going to enjoy watching this game fade into obscurity.

 

That's retarded, and a fine example of a non productive complaint that only serves to invalidate legitimate comments... Thanks for the example.

[Jugginator]

Sure many People who stopped playing in 16 are now back in 17.

But you forget one thing.

Many People who quit during Alpha 15 and 16 did this cause the game was not enough easy way Pew Pew and too much crafting and not easy Mode Learn Everything with more Pew Pew. So yes this People now come back at same time the people who dont want to leearn Cooking and Forging with Zombie PewPew possible stop playing until its modded enough to be interesting again.

 

That was difficult to read but I think what you're saying is that they quit because the game was hard? The problem was, and why they all quit like me, 99% of the crafting was useless. You could live in a 7x7 wooden base from day 1 to day 9999 with no worries of survival or zombies destroying you. You could live on a wood platform on a tree. You could live forever in the ground. Food wasn't an issue, like nothing else was. They didn't find any point in survival since... all of that grinding led to the same result no grinding would -- you're perfectly safe.

[crazyduck]

That was difficult to read but I think what you're saying is that they quit because the game was hard? The problem was, and why they all quit like me, 99% of the crafting was useless. You could live in a 7x7 wooden base from day 1 to day 9999 with no worries of survival or zombies destroying you. You could live on a wood platform on a tree. You could live forever in the ground. Food wasn't an issue, like nothing else was. They didn't find any point in survival since... all of that grinding led to the same result no grinding would -- you're perfectly safe.

 

Sorry English is not my first Language.

No what i wantet to say was this.

Many People quit playing in Alpha 15 and 16 and are now back playing possible stoppped in 15 and 16 cause it was not enough PEW PEW and not enough easy mode crafting , leveling and Learning of Recipes.

 

Now in 17 most Survival is only PEW PEW against zombies get xp get lvl up learn new recipes with skills.

Before it was Learn Recipes with looting and searching books, digging to get better with tools and such stuff.

 

So possible before it was nothing for the Shooter People but now its only for Shooter People and not really for Builders, RP Players , Miners and others.

[Jugginator]

Ah I see -- a tip would be to avoid the many pew pews lol. Well, they all had the same complaint -- there was zero point in building complex defense, no point in farming/getting recipies, no point in progress. If you grinded a ton, there was no threat to you survival. If you grinded barely anything, there was no threat to your survival.

 

Don't forget this isn't Minecraft, it's a tower defense with a goal of defending against the zombie hordes, with survival/exploring/crafting aspects and some elements of RPG. If there's no threat to your base, there's no tower defense, is there?

[crazyduck]

Ah I see -- a tip would be to avoid the many pew pews lol. Well, they all had the same complaint -- there was zero point in building complex defense, no point in farming/getting recipies, no point in progress. If you grinded a ton, there was no threat to you survival. If you grinded barely anything, there was no threat to your survival.

 

Don't forget this isn't Minecraft, it's a tower defense with a goal of defending against the zombie hordes, with survival/exploring/crafting aspects and some elements of RPG. If there's no threat to your base, there's no tower defense, is there?

 

Sure there must be a Threat but its not only Tower Defense its also a RPG, Survival and Crafting game. And there is also no real Threat with the Zombies. Dont knwo which alpha it was possible 9 not sure, i was building my Base and there are wandering Horde disturbing me or few single zombies. Thats nothign i had in 16 or 17 it was quiet around me and server is running on insane.

And if the only threat from zombies is they can dig down and do insane amounts of damage against massive structures or spawn with 10 inside a small room then its not really a threat its a really easy way to add some fake difficulty.

 

For in a Survival game its ok if the AI is little bit cheating to be a threat but not that much as it is in 7days to die.

 

Zombie AI is currently only a really lazy way to make them a Threat.

Resource Gathering is a joke super high stacksizes, fake weight system, really stupid Buffs from levelup all this are things for a shooter wiht added easy mode crafting survival.

 

And to be honest i really had no Problems with all this changes if it would be possible to Mod everything but that is not possible.

Simple Example. I want to add back recipe books remove recipes from Skilltree at same time. That works but i cant add a Simple Item Description to the Skillbooks only if i change the Localization file and this File is not shared during connect and also not read from Mods Folder.

[AtomicUs5000]

Zombies need to dig. The game is broken without it. They can't damage concrete and steel and not dig, It is unacceptable to be safe from the bm horde by simply mining down. The only compromise in my opinion, while keeping this a survival game, is removing the ability to mine... and I would hate that. Taking out the digging is equivalent to calling this game 7 Days to Nothing.

 

A little back story to the zombies might help. We have a combination of infection and radiation. By the zombie characters, it is clear that radiation has somehow been altering the physical makeup of the zombies, or altering the virus to make these changes in the zombies. It isn't that far-fetched that they are strong enough to do this when keeping this in mind.

Perhaps to bring cohesion to this concept, the Feral and Radiated zombies could dig/damage more than the regulars.

An alternative might be to introduce some zombies that have been mutated in such a way that makes them excellent at digging and tearing through hard materials.

[Jugginator]

^^^. I, for one, am finally glad to be able to build underground and still have zombies able to get to me.

[crazyduck]

Zombies need to dig. The game is broken without it. They can't damage concrete and steel and not dig, It is unacceptable to be safe from the bm horde by simply mining down. The only compromise in my opinion, while keeping this a survival game, is removing the ability to mine... and I would hate that. Taking out the digging is equivalent to calling this game 7 Days to Nothing.

 

A little back story to the zombies might help. We have a combination of infection and radiation. By the zombie characters, it is clear that radiation has somehow been altering the physical makeup of the zombies, or altering the virus to make these changes in the zombies. It isn't that far-fetched that they are strong enough to do this when keeping this in mind.

Perhaps to bring cohesion to this concept, the Feral and Radiated zombies could dig/damage more than the regulars.

An alternative might be to introduce some zombies that have been mutated in such a way that makes them excellent at digging and tearing through hard materials.

 

For me this entire Digging and nNsane Damage against massive Blocks is a Lazy and easy way to "fake" some real Threat that not exist.

 

Damage against Blocks sure makes sense wihtout you could be safe in a Concrete base. But Damage against Blockst and Insane Damage are different things.

Since Madmole always try to bring Ark as a example for something, tell me how many Dinosaurs are active in Ark at same time at same Map in Multiplayer? Few Hundred tamed plus Many more Wild Dinos. All of this Dinos close to Players with active AI. So why its impossible to make Zombies a Threat only by Numbers with normal Block Damage? 100 Zombies trying to get into your Base Punshing your Wall and Door should be enough to be a Threat.

 

Same with Digging , its a easy way to let them dig and sense the Player also if he is 50 blocks deep. Would be much harder to add other stuff to make Underground Bases harder to build.

 

So all this Threat from Zombies is only caused by Insane high Damage against Blocks and against Players, High Defense against attacks, high Hitpoints and Spawning behind Players and the Cheat AI with integratet GPS, Radar and Sonar and dont forget the Building Plans of all player owned Structures in the World.

 

And one thing more about digging.

Why would it hurt you or other People if this enitre Digging yes or no is made a Optional Setting? I always made my base on Surface and will continue with that but i also had Players on my Server who made underground Bases .

[AtomicUs5000]

For me this entire Digging and nNsane Damage against massive Blocks is a Lazy and easy way to "fake" some real Threat that not exist.

 

Damage against Blocks sure makes sense wihtout you could be safe in a Concrete base. But Damage against Blockst and Insane Damage are different things.

Since Madmole always try to bring Ark as a example for something, tell me how many Dinosaurs are active in Ark at same time at same Map in Multiplayer? Few Hundred tamed plus Many more Wild Dinos. All of this Dinos close to Players with active AI. So why its impossible to make Zombies a Threat only by Numbers with normal Block Damage? 100 Zombies trying to get into your Base Punshing your Wall and Door should be enough to be a Threat.

 

Same with Digging , its a easy way to let them dig and sense the Player also if he is 50 blocks deep. Would be much harder to add other stuff to make Underground Bases harder to build.

 

So all this Threat from Zombies is only caused by Insane high Damage against Blocks and against Players, High Defense against attacks, high Hitpoints and Spawning behind Players and the Cheat AI with integratet GPS, Radar and Sonar and dont forget the Building Plans of all player owned Structures in the World.

 

And one thing more about digging.

Why would it hurt you or other People if this enitre Digging yes or no is made a Optional Setting? I always made my base on Surface and will continue with that but i also had Players on my Server who made underground Bases .

 

Couldn't tell you... don't play the game.

I don't have a problem with an option to turn off digging to make the game as easy as possible. I never said that. I am just saying that in order for the base game to be the game that it claims to be, the zombies need to dig. The title of the thread is "ability to Dig down for zombies. WHY".

I'm giving the reason why the best I can as I understand it.

[FileMachete]

Going to cross post from another thread, apologies if this has already been mentioned; I haven't read this entire thread

----

I think a 'scent trail' would be quite a bit more fun. And realistic

 

Rather than the two extremes; simple, 'can't dig' of A16, & current go to directly above player, dig straight down of A17.

 

Scent trail could allow you to build the old hatch out in the middle of nowhere protecting your mineshaft. Z's path to hatch and break through. Come down access shaft, at bottom, or whereever, you've built a defensive spot, or 2 or 3. The pathing would/could keep the z's on that course, providing player with the opportunity to defend, or retreat.

 

As it is currently you can achieve basically the same thing, but it takes a lot more work. If you're building a large underground bunker you can just dig out 3 more blocks for a 'catch basin' that the z's will fall into, then in that large 'attic' over your base, just have a spot they can path to, then defend from there.

 

For the mine access inside of base, a scent trail could/would lead the z's to breach the base defenses first. Consider that you may well be out of hearing range. So you'd likely need/want to rig up an alarm system so you'd know you needed to haul butt to defend.

 

Certainly I've no idea how feasible it is, but it seems to me like it could be more fun & more realistic at the same time.

---

 

Will add that it's no skin off my nose if 'digging' were to be optional.

[HungryZombie]

Since Madmole always try to bring Ark as a example for something, tell me how many Dinosaurs are active in Ark at same time at same Map in Multiplayer? Few Hundred tamed plus Many more Wild Dinos. All of this Dinos close to Players with active AI. So why its impossible to make Zombies a Threat only by Numbers with normal Block Damage? 100 Zombies trying to get into your Base Punshing your Wall and Door should be enough to be a Threat.

 

I think because 7d2d is a Voxel game it has certain limitations that games like Ark don't have.

[OnlyMeiya]

Seems like you're making a lot of assumptions.

 

We have no idea what caused the zombies.

What if it's a demonic thing?

Some malevolent force guiding the zombies towards you that seeks your soul.

 

Could be.

 

Thing is, until we have an official story line we don't know.

 

Also,

I've been watching zombies movies for 40 years and I can tell you with certainty that...

 

... yes! Sometimes zombies DO have super powers.

 

https://screenrant.com/15-best-undead-superheroes-ever-all-time/

 

There are some strong evidence that Higashi Pharmaceutical have a hand in the zeds creation or at least analysis as when you loot towards the top of the fielding you see sign across it that says something along the lines of "Bio testing" or "Experiments, something along those lines, I can't remember which exactly, then you see the zeds in their containment cases which they break out of upon you waking them up.