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[A17 Spoilers] Claim Blocks!


KingSlayerGM

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As I noted previously, I do hope TFP makes it easy for server owners (or indeed, single players) to modify the XML's to permit multiple active LCB's if that player wants that.

 

Yup this would end most of the complaints.

 

There's still people who will be upset about being in the modded category.

Can't say I disagree but it's a really nice compromise.

 

------------

 

It also points out another problem.

Modded Servers need a page for descriptions.

I'd like to know exactly what's going on with a server instead of having to click on some 3rd party link.

 

Seen too many Chinese scammers take advantage of that kind of thing.

[Yeah just click here and sign up. Then you can download the readme file that just so happens to be an EXE.

It's TOTALLY not a virus/keylogger at all.]

 

But that's for another thread. Doesn't need to be discussed here.

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Quite distinct from the issue surrounding LCB's - it is ENTIRELY up to TFP to decide how many players they support - and they have ALWAYS said 8 is what they support. You can be as "tired" with it as you want, but YOU don't get to decide the games parameters.

 

That element aside, I can see why people would like an easy way to permit multiple LCB's per player, and I do hope that the XML's will permit that.

 

He wasn't trying to dictate anything. It's merely an observation of reality. The more popular servers allow more than 8 players because more than 8 players want to be connected simultaneously. It's fine if they only suggest 8 players, but they've allowed for more than that, and seeing as having more than 8 players tends to be more popular amongst the online community, one would think they'd be mindful of what such drastic changes can do to the online gameplay. It's not the 8-player vanilla servers that keep people interested in the game from what I've seen.

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He wasn't trying to dictate anything. It's merely an observation of reality. The more popular servers allow more than 8 players because more than 8 players want to be connected simultaneously. It's fine if they only suggest 8 players, but they've allowed for more than that, and seeing as having more than 8 players tends to be more popular amongst the online community, one would think they'd be mindful of what such drastic changes can do to the online gameplay. It's not the 8-player vanilla servers that keep people interested in the game from what I've seen.

 

Well, to be fair, it reads like something closely approaching a demand.

 

I get that Moah Playerz = Moah Funz, for sure, and hopefully someday TFP will spend some time on working on that, but not I hope, before Gold, because it was stated clearly and early that "8 is enough" and if they decide to spend the effort needed to expand that, I hope it doesn't come at the expense, or even delay, of other content.

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Well, to be fair, it reads like something closely approaching a demand.

 

I get that Moah Playerz = Moah Funz, for sure, and hopefully someday TFP will spend some time on working on that, but not I hope, before Gold, because it was stated clearly and early that "8 is enough" and if they decide to spend the effort needed to expand that, I hope it doesn't come at the expense, or even delay, of other content.

 

What would that look like?

 

They could do away with many layers of voxels.

Maybe a PvP server with only 3 layers of dirt then bedrock or something?

 

More players = more resources and that's got to come from somewhere.

 

Might have to have a more "static" world.

Not completely, otherwise it's just another boring PvP game.

Just maybe some way of limiting the amount of voxels.

 

That's just one suggestion though.

I'm sure there's other things that could be trimmed down to free up resources.

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I think the largest reason for this change, is because the claim block now prevents spawns. You get someone covering a 300m area with LCB's that prevent spawns, and it really ruins the survival aspect of the game.'

 

I can agree with allowing more than just one. Maybe 2 or 3. More than that preventing zed spawns isn't really playing the game, and it will break horde and pathing mechanics. If you need that much protection from zombies, you can turn them off.

 

There is also a fine line here that the developers have to walk. This is a "survival horde crafting game". Which of those do you put first when you're developing? Survival, or the ability to create giant castles? IMHO, the core of the game is about survival, and with the current iteration of the LCB, being able to zombie-proof and area larger than 40-70 blocks is against the core aspects.

 

Currently it looks like modding this feature will require modifying the DLL, but I'll also admit I didn't really put more than about 5 minutes looking into the data for it right now.

 

The main problem is the respawn mechanic between intrinsically tied to LCBs. It ruins everything by forcing 1 mechanic to do double duty.

 

What if instead of this, TFP had left old land claim blocks as-is, but added a 2nd block for bases (a "safezone block") with the mechanics for preventing spawning.

 

With a second block added, you could have particularly large size & massive deadzone (to prevent nearby safe zones), with the limit of 1 per player, without being too harmful.

 

I believe random zombies already don't spawn on player placed blocks, so this change mainly impacts sleepers if you claim a POI instead of building your own.

 

Either way, it makes construction MUCH harder.

 

I'm going to be starting a private server with 3 or 4 players probably, and this means that we'll need to coordinate our LCBs for covering multiple areas, instead of just placing them as makes sense for each of us.

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I don't see a problem with having say 3 LCB's each.

That's fine. That's the job of designers. =)

 

With 3 blocks you need a system/UI to determine which blocks are active or to activate/deactivate individual ones, more bookkeeping, stacking/overlapping rules. A whole bundle of issues made that decision.

 

The previous spam of claim blocks was a cancer that had to go.

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That's fine. That's the job of designers. =)

 

With 3 blocks you need a system/UI to determine which blocks are active or to activate/deactivate individual ones, more bookkeeping, stacking/overlapping rules. A whole bundle of issues made that decision.

 

The previous spam of claim blocks was a cancer that had to go.

 

Wow man ...way to alienate half of the 7dtd community!!!! When have the LCB's EVER contributed to server errors/functionality!!!!!

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The previous spam of claim blocks was a cancer that had to go.

 

I have yet to see an actual example of said cancer.

What server(s) did claim spam happen on? And if it was on PvP servers, what do the devs care, eh? – It's not a PvP game anyway, right?

How were claims abused exactly? How often do reports or complaints about that come in?

What actual technical problems did they cause, that warrant this drastic approach?

 

Just trying to understand this decision and trying to get some rational answers, not some defensive and uninformative bs. Thanks.

 

Also, it's not going to kill anyone to admit, when they're wrong about something – I'm sure most here actually are open to be convinced otherwise, but so far nobody is convinced this is" a cancer that had to go".

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This is my take on it.

 

Pros.

 

no more ♥♥♥♥ing towers. a 15x15 is the minimum requirement to make unraidable towers. having the central tower as a 15x15 from bedrock to sky limit and then building a claimed wall around it effectively a 45x45 perimeter wall would make it so that u have to dig out enough keys (LCBs)from the perimeter wall in order to be able to place wood frames near the tower. you would want keys on the edges of the tower so that u can only place blocks 7 blocks away from the tower. this makes it so you protect your tower walls from being pickaxed. only way to get closer is to place a draw bridge that then opens towards the tower. but you still need to remove enough keys from the perimeter walls in order to get close enough to the tower.

 

this kind of building is not a true unraidable system, it just works because it takes to much time to find all the keys and drill out every steel block before getting to one that its simply not worth it. in my team case, due to server settings, raiding our bases would have taken a single person 24 or more hours, making it so that before we would get raided we had time to sleep, go to work and come back home and seal every breach before anyone could have got into our main loot room.

 

this wont scale up with more players really, because TFP decided not to fix the issue that came with the new blocks health system (roland made a huge post about this back then asking about that), where if two or more players hit the same block it wont get damaged or it regens hp due to latency. this can be worked around by timeing your swings with pickaxes in a perfect way up to 3 players on the same block. it is impossible with augers tho.

 

another way you could raid towers is to ignore the perimeter wall by just jumping over it if possible or opening a breach through it and then starting to drill up from the bottom of the tower. this is by far the worst possible way due to the time it required to drill out blocks so that you can ladder up. there are more than 150 blocks vertically, and laddering up this way its just an insane ammount of time.

 

as far i am concerned, this is the only true way multiple LCBs can be abused and after 4000 hours of pvping and raiding thats the only way to use them that stopped raiders from raiding us, and us from raiding other towers.

Building larger villages with many bases or bases that can be jumped on top of are much much easier to enter no matter what.

 

 

cons

 

if due to the compensation in protected area a signle LCB would go larger than 15x15 towers would be even stronger. a draw bridge is what 5 blocks in lenght? it wont add much reach to the tower and if the claim gets too big that just means that no perimeter wall is needed and the only possible way to raid a tower is from the bottom up. As i stated before, this is so ineficient it can take more than 24 hours to do, effectively being unraidable if the owner of the base logs in and repairs everything before you get his key.

 

we wont be albe to build villages or multiple bases. thats also connected to the fact that we cant have multiple spawn points. as it is for now if you place bed 1 and then you place bed 2, you can only spawn in bed 2 untill it gets removed and then u start spawning back to bed 1 again. i am not sure this ever worked as intended btw.

 

LCB have a deadzone where enemies cant place another key in your area, but friends can. if the key gets deactivated by the claimed area and not the deadzone that just means larger clans like mine can still claim bigger areas, just having non overlapping keys will do the trick. even worse if the claim zone of one key just dont have to incase the other key, which is the system we used so far for efficiency (at least at the beginning, then we had keys on all blocks over time). this just means towers will still exist but single players who have a couple of small bases or just want to add more protection to a single small base will be in serious disadvantage compared to a clan tower.

 

 

 

i know i have been speaking about towers only basically. but thats the origin of the LCB issue as far as pvp is oncerned. having multiple keys allowed alot of ppl to build great villages and strictires just for the sake of beauty and with only one key it wont be possible anymore.

 

at this point i belive a system like in Rust would be much better, where your claim zone scalse with your block, and to counter the fact that this way you could claim the entire map there is an upkeep cost that scales with it, giving serious limitations to what you can do before the upkeep becomes unmanageable.

 

i different solution to all of this (and admitedly what i was hoping for) is the change to the vertical claim capability of the LCB. so that if a key rainge is 15x15, it would be so also vertically, effectively protecting a cubic area instead of a pillar from bedrock to sky limit. yes multiple keys will allow the same tower system and probably wont change much, but as everyone who played pvp in a serious manner and in a proper servre should know by now, LCB default cost is way too cheap and so admins ansays change it to a very expensive crafting cost to make it impossible or really time consuming to grind enough materials to craft way too many LCBs. OFC overtime that will be achieved anyway, but is a far better solution to only 1 key in my opinion.

 

as a last thing i dont think LCB area is really a problem, the real problem is the one previously mentioned where 2 or more players can auger the same block so to speed up the raiding proces. Time being the only factor that really matter in raiding matter this is a big issue. fix the issue so that many players at once can hit the same blick without having its health restored due to lag in damage syncing and tower wont be as safe anymore. I dont think there is need to remind anyone that a clan made of 5 players should and will always and anyway have an advantage over a single player, but at the same time a single player, who may not have time or resources enough to raid a big clan base, at least should be able to stand a change in protecting his own base. this means that as for a clan you have a big base will al the loots, for a simgle player is best to have multiple bases and the loots spreaded in all of them so not to lose everything at once.

 

ah. BTW... maybe fixing the issue where LCB strengh modifier between offline and online wont change if a player comes online, effectively having always OFFLINE strenght protection also would be great. so that admins can set high LCB strenght so that when someone is offline his base is really hard to get, but online, with a way lower LCB strengh is much easier so to encourage online raiding and giving a chance to the base owner to defend his base. this is a feature that never worked but is always been there. it will cause many new problems (like the owner of the key going offline during a raid so that the rest of the clan can defend with a much higher LCB strengh modifier on their side) but i would at least see that fixed and get a chance to test such a feature that never worked but had really good potential. is not perfect but with a bit of work can solve much more than a single LCB.

 

thanks for your time reading this baddly written wall of text.

 

EDIT: maybe a limited ammount of placeable LCB? like 5 max or so? with settings for admins to decide? yes? pleeeease? them being all active ofc.

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no more ♥♥♥♥ing towers. a 15x15 is the minimum requirement to make unraidable towers. having the central tower as a 15x15 from bedrock to sky limit and then building a claimed wall around it effectively a 45x45 perimeter wall would make it so that u have to dig out enough keys (LCBs)from the perimeter wall in order to be able to place wood frames near the tower.

 

gyrocopter already eliminated this issue, you can fly over sky limit i think (fataal mentioned you can fly over 265 )

 

BTW is the offline multiplier fixed? on A16 it does work same as online multiplier

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yes gyrocopted now let you go on top of the tower, that just means you have to drill 100 steel blocks down to get the key =P

 

and no even in a16 it never worked. if multiplier for offline is 32 and online is 16 (which are the pefect stats in my experience btw) even of the owner is online the multiplier stays at 32.

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People can craft infinite blocks and just wall an entire city in with 10+ deep walls. This is a cancer and you should limit player to, say, 100 blocks. Also, people can can get many rocket launchers, oil barrels and such, and then totally destroy an entire city. Cancer! Limit 1 of each to each player.

People can gather so much materials and build unlimited chests to hold it... cancer, 1 chest each! You have to limit these features, so people cant play how they want. Look to fallout76. I think Joel is very inspired by the lack of ability to have an impact on the world.

Seriusly though, best game ever and i trust the devs more than any other. They will find a good solution in time, i am sure. But 1 lcb each.... ffs :)

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That's fine. That's the job of designers. =)

 

With 3 blocks you need a system/UI to determine which blocks are active or to activate/deactivate individual ones, more bookkeeping, stacking/overlapping rules. A whole bundle of issues made that decision.

 

The previous spam of claim blocks was a cancer that had to go.

 

Yeah, I'm gonna have to disagree with you on that. I don't know what the devs have had to deal with when it comes to coding for the LCBs, but when it comes to running a server, or acting as an admin on one, there has been no cancer regarding LCBs. I'm sure there have been some people claiming large areas with tons of LCBs, or people trolling with them, but that's what admins and server rules are for. I haven't heard of a single instance where this was a problem, because admins could easily remove LCBs, multiple LCBs at a time, in an area with one command. I don't think you'll find one person who agrees with this change, and that includes people who act as admins on servers. This was not a good move on the part of the developers. What we had before was just fine as opposed to this. Seriously, can anyone recall the previous LCBs being a problem? Sounds like the devs are "fixing" something that was never broken. NOW it's broken.

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This might hurt our community sever quite a bit. Been running it for three years, open login usually unless it's sale time and hundreds of new players try to join. Totally PvE, as we are about building beautiful working bases, destroyed structured aren't fun for us

 

We must have had 8000 unique players over the time of three years.

We've had trouble with players who forgot to place their claim and got raided, never, ever had problems with lcb spam

 

A better management would have been nice, like being able to remove them without being present in the region. Or auto removal if a player is banned (with a flag ban ecv 1 year remove claims)

 

Only one claim severely reduces the option for communities, public shops and all, or a lobby

 

Any hacker can shoot down an entire building inside of 20 seconds without an lcb.

 

And yeah even with eight players, we still get 300 unique logins a month

 

I truly hope this will be configurable, as it will hurt a LOT of pve servers I'm sure.

 

This will most likely be fixed by mods and bots,so it's not a drama and might actually help my own bot, it is inconvenient though. I am not aware of any admin on any server having had trouble with lcb, and I know a lot. I don't understand why this was even on the list of things to change

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I'm sure most here actually are open to be convinced otherwise, but so far nobody is convinced this is" a cancer that had to go".

 

You must be new here. These complaint threads become long because people are not convinced otherwise.

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You get one wooden frame. Build a base.

 

You get one arrow. Welcome to horde night.

 

You get one water. Learn to ration.

 

:p

 

I'll give each of these one chance. The arrow one might work out juuust fine – We can pull that arrow from the Z over and over and reload it into our bow... Wait, do I get a bow in that game mode or just the arrow? :roll:

 

 

You must be new here. These complaint threads become long because people are not convinced otherwise.

 

Yeah I'm just a naive li'l forum noob and I'll get disillusioned on my own terms and at my own pace soon enough. Please be patient with me.

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That's fine. That's the job of designers. =)

 

With 3 blocks you need a system/UI to determine which blocks are active or to activate/deactivate individual ones, more bookkeeping, stacking/overlapping rules. A whole bundle of issues made that decision.

 

The previous spam of claim blocks was a cancer that had to go.

 

Wow Gazz thats an insanely ignorant thing to say about Mechanic NOONE complained about and everyone on pve and pvp servers enjoyed, why dont you guys just admit, for once, that you messed up and revert

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