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So this is where roland said to go to gripe about a17 and the early release...

Scyris

By Scyris
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Guppycur The Governor

Guppycur

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The two main negative effects streaming had last time was 1, current users got butthurt, 2, serious spoilage occurred. I don't think anyone who watched the streams didn't know how to get through the pharmaceutical buildings by the end of the weekend.

 

That sucked, because it would have been a cool surprise to fall through a floor into a room...

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Jedo Colony Founder

Jedo

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I still don´t see any impact on the marketing if existing players get it at the same time. There is literally no negative effect on the marketing if we get it at the same day as the streamers.

 

1) As it stands, I doubt most people will be playing it much longer than a week based off feedback from various friends... but pretty much all of them have said they don't care about A17-E right now and will be going hard on FO76 instead. That is absolutely going to eat into the potential tester base by quite a substantial amount.

 

I love how things like "my narrow group of friends" and "since I can't see any logic" become "I'm absolutely right in my position." Classic!

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andrewcu Hunter

andrewcu

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Still annoyed at why streamers get first access to a17, release it for all on friday. Its bull♥♥♥♥ that they get access to it first for no damn good reason.

 

Its a marketing strategy as well as a way to see if there are any more bugs that need to be worked out before final release. Dont get your panties in a bunch. Be happy theyre trying to give it to you as complete as possible.

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Gamida Leader

Gamida

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Its a marketing strategy as well as a way to see if there are any more bugs that need to be worked out before final release. Dont get your panties in a bunch. Be happy theyre trying to give it to you as complete as possible.

 

I know you are fairly new here but there is an unspoken rule.....if the words "be happy" are ever together like that then they have to be proceeded with the words "Don't worry". This has the effect of the song getting stuck in their heads, calming them down and unbunching their panties...

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KhaineGB Leader

KhaineGB

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I made no assumption. The evidence is in my post.

 

You actually did.

 

You made the ASSUMPTION that I believe I'm right due to an ASSUMED small sample size. You don't know how many "friends" I have or how many people I have discussed it with.

 

So, again, can we not do that please? Can we just stop with the general attitude these forums have of rabidly defending TFP if someone even slightly criticises something?

 

And if not, can we please try and do it in a polite and well thought out manner? Because I'm honestly sick and tired of people jumping down my throat and coming across as hostile.

 

Thank you.

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Jedo Colony Founder

Jedo

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You actually did.

 

You made the ASSUMPTION that I believe I'm right due to an ASSUMED small sample size. You don't know how many "friends" I have or how many people I have discussed it with.

 

So, again, can we not do that please? Can we just stop with the general attitude these forums have of rabidly defending TFP if someone even slightly criticises something?

 

And if not, can we please try and do it in a polite and well thought out manner? Because I'm honestly sick and tired of people jumping down my throat and coming across as hostile.

 

Thank you.

 

I misspoke. I made a small assumption that you don't know "a substantial amount" of the people who will play A17-E. I mean, the average person doesn't know more than about 1,000 people, and that already disqualifies your statement even before we subtract the fact that (it's a good bet) not everybody you know plays 7dtd and that you (probably) didn't speak individually to all of your friends who do and that (by your admission) not all of them are skipping A17-E. Are we down to like 100 people? What a blow!

 

What if, instead of assuming that I'm "rabidly defending TFP if someone even slightly criticises something," you see that I'm just targeting your hyperbole which you used to justify making an absolute statement. Criticise all you want, but keep it in emotional/perspectival tones rather than attempting to globalize your position. (By the way, to negate an absolute, I only need one counter-example. I think I far exceeded that.)

 

Finally, as you can see, it was "well thought out," and I don't think it was particularly impolite. If what I said was "jumping down your throat," I'm going to need you to explain your definition of that phrase. (I didn't even address you directly, for crying out loud.)

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Scyris Leader

Scyris

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I know you are fairly new here but there is an unspoken rule.....if the words "be happy" are ever together like that then they have to be proceeded with the words "Don't worry". This has the effect of the song getting stuck in their heads, calming them down and unbunching their panties...

 

This made me laugh probally more than it should have.

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KhaineGB Leader

KhaineGB

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I misspoke. I made a small assumption that you don't know "a substantial amount" of the people who will play A17-E. I mean, the average person doesn't know more than about 1,000 people, and that already disqualifies your statement even before we subtract the fact that (it's a good bet) not everybody you know plays 7dtd and that you (probably) didn't speak individually to all of your friends who do and that (by your admission) not all of them are skipping A17-E. Are we down to like 100 people? What a blow!

 

What if, instead of assuming that I'm "rabidly defending TFP if someone even slightly criticises something," you see that I'm just targeting your hyperbole which you used to justify making an absolute statement. Criticise all you want, but keep it in emotional/perspectival tones rather than attempting to globalize your position. (By the way, to negate an absolute, I only need one counter-example. I think I far exceeded that.)

 

Finally, as you can see, it was "well thought out," and I don't think it was particularly impolite. If what I said was "jumping down your throat," I'm going to need you to explain your definition of that phrase. (I didn't even address you directly, for crying out loud.)

 

Given that the current average player base of 7DTD is high 6,000's (around the 6,800 mark with some fluctuations for last month. No complete data for this month YET), I would not disqualify anything less than 1,000 for a sample size as that figure is pushing close to 20% of the active player base. Definitely anything less than 100 though. I've also only spoken to friends, acquaintances and members of various 7DTD communities... so yes, all the people I have spoken to DO or DID play the game. The reason for that is because I was curious on their opinions of FO76, if they were going to play it at all.

 

I also used those stats, coupled with the viewer stats on twitch to see if what I've been hearing is even slightly accurate. 7DTD only had 510-ish people watching it last night. It usually has 800+.... 1,000 is much more normal. The streamers with the most viewers (at the time of checking, which was 2:30-ish AM GMT, so approx 9:30-ish EST) had 121, 71, 59, 24 and 19. Those were the 5 right at the top of the directory which is not normal for 7DTD during the evening... at all.

 

And that is why I am concerned that releasing within the same week as Fallout 76 is a bad idea. It's not hyperbole in the slightest. I actually did some research and checking on how that game has impacted viewer figures (and what my friends/acquaintances/accomplices are playing right now and if they are interested in A17-E) before I made any kind of post.

 

As for critizicing, I did so from a logical and reasoned perspective. You replied to it with the following...

 

I love how things like "my narrow group of friends" and "since I can't see any logic" become "I'm absolutely right in my position." Classic!

 

So no. Your reply did not come across as even slightly well reasoned. At the time, no counter-example was given (And you still haven't done so), no evidence was given (which you can clearly see... there's no evidence at all where-as I have now provided some numbers for you) and thus your post DID come across as the typical defensive style I've had to deal with whenever I criticise TFP in any form.

 

I never accused you of being impolite. I simply stated how the reply came across based on my interactions thus far on this forum. If that was not your intent, then I sincerely apologize for my interpretation of the second quote listed above. :) That is also why it felt like you were "jumping down my throat", because even you have to admit you provided no evidence, no counter argument just a "my narrow group of friends" and "classic!" argument, neither of which lend themselves to discussion.

 

So, again, that was probably a bad interpretation on MY part due to past experiences, but it basically read like "I have nothing to add, but I disagree with you and I'm gonna quote you and word my reply in a way to start a fight" for which I can only apologise for being wrong in that regard.

 

But surely you can see WHY I thought that.

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Smooth Refugee

Smooth

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I just hope the Streamers crash nonstop, it is buggy as hell, and the Streamers can showcase the bugs to their audience. Should help drum up some sales ;)

 

Who knew the 17 in A17 means it would take 17 months to make.

 

So A18 in 18 months?

 

PotgChamp.jpg.98bef8649dea16f8db7f9fb7af16140d.jpg

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Jedo Colony Founder

Jedo

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<data snip>

Ay dios mio! I've wandered into a data set/statistics argument again. Will I ever learn?

 

Look. This isn't about numbers and who has the better data and whose interpretation of that data is better. This is about globalizing and making absolute statements. If you want people to take your position seriously, don't use those things. They are classic signs that your argument is weak regardless of the strength of your argument. (Which, by the way, still includes all kinds of assumptions outside of the numbers, assumptions like those involving human psychology.) You have a fear that TFP's marketing won't work like they want, and that fear is based on a mixture of your perceptions. Fine. Just because you fear that does not mean that it will become reality, so don't pretend like it will. Express your fear, maybe even provide evidence that leads you to believe such, but for the love of TFP stop short of saying that it will be just like you've described.

 

So no. Your reply did not come across as even slightly well reasoned. At the time, no counter-example was given (And you still haven't done so), no evidence was given (which you can clearly see... there's no evidence at all where-as I have now provided some numbers for you) and thus your post DID come across as the typical defensive style I've had to deal with whenever I criticise TFP in any form.

How was my initial reply not well-reasoned? You provided zero evidence in the post I quoted, and instead said "I doubt most people" and "feedback from various friends." Then you said, "absolutely...a substantial amount." All I pointed out is that "various friends" does not equal "absolutely a substantial amount." (I used different words, but that was the thrust.) My next post tried to show you how that is so. Only after that did you provide actual, numerical evidence to back up your thinking. ("Your thinking," by the way, still is not equivalent to "the actual state of affairs.")

 

I never accused you of being impolite.

 

Let's not kid each other. Saying, "Can we please...do it in a polite...manner," is to imply that it was not polite.

 

That is also why it felt like you were "jumping down my throat", because even you have to admit you provided no evidence, no counter argument just a "my narrow group of friends" and "classic!" argument, neither of which lend themselves to discussion.

 

I provided all the evidence and counter argument that was needed at the time. If somebody tries to equate apples and oranges, I need only point at them and say, "Those are not the same." See my point above.

 

But surely you can see WHY I thought that.

 

You are sensitive about your position and think that people won't listen to your concern, which you have because TFP's marketing strategy has an out-sized impact on your life? You don't like that somebody pointed out (by juxtaposition, because not everything needs to be spelled out) the flaw in your statement?

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KhaineGB Leader

KhaineGB

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Aaaaaand that's me done then.

 

You cannot state that 2 lines (which I quoted) are a reasoned argument and then try to back it up. As for my fear they got the marketing wrong (though I believe Roland said it's not a marketing thing, will have to check that), it's not a fear thing. It's a concern based on me seeing AAA publishers and games doing similar stuff (games in similar genres releasing at the same times) and then going "We buggered up!"

 

Simple as that. Now if you want to continue trying to claim you provided evidence (you didn't) and a counter argument... for reference AGAIN...

 

I love how things like "my narrow group of friends" and "since I can't see any logic" become "I'm absolutely right in my position." Classic!

 

...then we're absolutely done here. What you did was basically just quote my post and go LOLNo.

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Jedo Colony Founder

Jedo

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Aaaaaand that's me done then.

 

You cannot state that 2 lines (which I quoted) are a reasoned argument and then try to back it up. As for my fear they got the marketing wrong (though I believe Roland said it's not a marketing thing, will have to check that), it's not a fear thing. It's a concern based on me seeing AAA publishers and games doing similar stuff (games in similar genres releasing at the same times) and then going "We buggered up!"

 

Simple as that. Now if you want to continue trying to claim you provided evidence (you didn't) and a counter argument... for reference AGAIN...

 

...then we're absolutely done here. What you did was basically just quote my post and go LOLNo.

 

Your anecdotal evidence is not equivalent to reality. A simple definition search will reveal this to be true.

 

Translation: LOLNo.

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canadianbluebeer Colony Founder

canadianbluebeer

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The stream thing is marketing. Normally you have to pay for advertising, this way they don't.

The target is really for new players, not those of us who already have it. Some of us will watch, some won't.

 

FO76: yeah, big thing, but I'm thinking more for consoles than PC at the moment. (once private servers are allowed, that may change)

 

Oh, I broke down and bought the damned thing night before launch, and of course they open it up a day early, AND A17E date gets announced. So, yer welcome. :p

 

(FO76 has a lvl cap of 50, so I dunno how the long term thing is gonna work for them. VERY limited budget for stash, and building. I mean stupidly limited. Those stay, people WILL switch to something else, except the asshats who like to be asshats and destroy stuff. Hence, the need for private servers)

 

I know I'll be swapping to 17e once it comes out, bugs and all. (will putting several hundred lights on a skyscraper that reaches to +190 with multiple timers to turn the lights on, crash the game ? (it does now) gonna find out. :D )

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e1ghtbit Survivor

e1ghtbit

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I think the thing that sucks the most about the damn streamer head start is that it's done AFTER the weekend is over. I have a job and obligations during the week and most of my game time is on the weekends. Why not drop A17e during the week and then open it up to everyone on friday?

 

Either way. Monday is right around the corner.

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Thoddius Refugee

Thoddius

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Message from the old guard

 

For those of us that have been here since the beginning, this is like spitting in my face. If anyone "deserves" to get the game first it should be those that were here in Alpha 1, but I still see no reason not to make it an open release for everyone to enjoy for the weekend. I don't watch others play 7DTD, so it goes without saying that I will not be watching this weekend, because I am a player. Having been a supporter from the beginning I disagree with the release to select individuals. That is the kind of thing you do for an early access title's first release, i.e. A1, which was NOT the case for 7DTD A1 because it was open to ALL of the supporters. I know this won't change how TFP will release A17, but I want you all to know that we have the right to speak our minds on this, whether TFP is listening or not. We need to make sure we rally together to keep this from happening for A18, and if TFP continues to behave this way then we need to start a collective negative media campaign against them so they will know without a doubt that the over 2 million of us that have supported them along the way are the reason they have made every alpha version of this game.

With that said, bad move pimps.

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