skillz_over_9000 Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 About the name all over the console version: Then if Sony does a Spiderman movie, Marvel is directly involved because their name is all over the movie? Even if it is, how has that anything to do with your assertion that " TFP is now trying to make it seem [...] that they always had our back when that isnt true"? About designing the game itself: What about the word "direct" didn't you understand? And even if we construct a responsibility from that, this still doesn't explain what you mean by " TFP is now trying to make it seem [...] that they always had our back when that isnt true". In your example yes Marvel was involved in the spiderman movie was that not obvious? If a company has no interest in supporting a product it would be pretty stupid for that company to stick their name on it along with TT and IG. So no TFP cannot decide they have no involvement after the fact they can't have it both ways "About designing the game itself: What about the word "direct" didn't you understand? And even if we construct a responsibility from that, this still doesn't explain what you mean by " TFP is now trying to make it seem [...] that they always had our back when that isnt true" Well again i thought this would be obvious but guess not. IG and TT did a port of the pc version in which the port was very obviously created based on the work of TFP. I seriously doubt that TFP allowed a port of their game to be made with 0 input at all. If they did they are either a lot dumber than i thought or they simply have no idea how to operate as a company. TFP having to have provided some form of input before obvious then are at least partially responsible for the consol versions. So again TFP now saying "we will do what we can for our consol players" is kinda empty. They did bare minimum for us before yet now we are supposed to trust them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a4twenty Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 ... even if they get us that last update that IG was actually working on. no one actually knows if they were working on anything at all. it's not like TT woke up one day and said uh oh, we're bankrupt they could have pulled funding long before they announced their troubles. you can argue the game was sold as a completed game but that doesnt change the fact that the game was broke on launch, remained broken while it was being supported and will be broke forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freestyle604 Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 no one actually knows if they were working on anything at all. it's not like TT woke up one day and said uh oh, we're bankrupt they could have pulled funding long before they announced their troubles. you can argue the game was sold as a completed game but that doesnt change the fact that the game was broke on launch, remained broken while it was being supported and will be broke forever. "We wanted to give you an update on how things are progressing with the upgrade to Unity 2017. We are still on track and currently working on ensuring the menus are behaving as they should with the new upgrade." This is from TTG before they went bankrupt, see the locked sticky thread before this thread. So we actually do know what they were working on for the upgrade. If you read my posts correctly you will see I never said it was completed. I agree it was broke at launch and I was hopeful this last update was going to fix those few issues my friend and I still have when we play 7DTD. I am saying if it was sold as complete as others have said then I am banking on the console version never getting the update. I don't see how TFP can put money into a project that is doubtful to have ROI since most console users have already paid for 7DTD. Unless they charge for the update, and I don't see those who own 7DTD paying for a long overdue update. Of course I don't work for any of those involved so I am only going by what I have seen on these forums. The fact the PC side gets offers for t-shirts and contests for free copies of the game and zero mention on the console side speaks volumes too. I hope I am wrong, and would gladly eat crow if they did retain the game rights at it currently stands, and then spends time and effort to finish the patch. Once again from the lack of commenting from TFP I am pretty sure the writing is on the wall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a4twenty Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 This is from TTG before they went bankrupt, see the locked sticky thread before this thread. So we actually do know what they were working on for the upgrade. well that clears that up, they said they were doing it so it must be true. i'm sure they were honest with all people they had contracts with, all their employees and everyone else that bought one of their games too.... it's just as likely they would say anything to hide the fact they were going out of business. they were trying to squeeze every last drop out of the public and any hint of trouble would stop that. the notion that a business would put your happiness over their profit is folly. do you think Facebook and google are collecting every bit of data from you to help you in your shopping? they're not your friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 This was all pretty well explained in the past but seems to have become muddy so maybe I can help. TFP is the original creator of 7 Days to Die. Their name is going to be on any version of it for that reason alone regardless of whether they have everything or nothing directly to do with those versions. If someone were to publish a novel based on the Navezgane universe they would have to obtain permission from TFP and then you can bet that TFP's logo would appear somewhere on either the front or back cover of the book despite the fact that nobody from TFP authored a single word of the book. Being an original creator merits mention irrespective of direct involvement down the line with other versions or derivative works. In this case TFP did have quite a bit to do with the console development as it happens. They provided the source code to Iron Galaxy who ported it over to console. Iron Galaxy did a fair bit of bug squishing and optimizations which they would send back upstream to TFP to benefit the PC version as well. Programmers from TFP were assigned to work with Iron Galaxy and help out where needed. In the case of updates it was TFP that determined what post Alpha 14 features were ready and able to be ported over and once again TFP made their programmers available to Iron Galaxy to make sure the process was smooth and as bugs and glitches were found TFP could fix those in the source code and then provide a better code for Iron Galaxy to use. Telltale paid Iron Galaxy to do the porting and updating. Telltale also had exclusive rights to distribute 7 Days to Die to the console market. When Telltale went bankrupt Iron Galaxy was about 3/4 of the way done with the next major update which would have brought elements of Alpha 16 (I believe) to the console as well as hopefully firm up fixes and stability. With Telltale's demise the funding for IG dried up and the rights to distribute were tied up in bankruptcy proceedings. Until TFP can obtain the rights to distribute the game to the console market there is nothing that can be done. Once TFP gets those rights then they can take over paying Iron Galaxy and the update will be able to be finished. Until things are finalized TFP obviously cannot talk about it publicly so updates chronicling the progress just are not possible. The good news is that 7 Days to Die is a wonderful game to come back to after taking a long break. I hear this time after time from many different games and have experienced it myself. So take a break and play others games and when/if this whole mess gets solved and the console version gets updated you will see that returning to it even after a year or more is a great experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy the Tulip Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 Thanks for the update and clarification, Roland. It's always helpful to come back to the forums and see a clear headed individual give solid information on these events. You're absolutely right about the game, too, in that my fiancee and I have recently come back to it, playing at ludicrously hard levels, and are having a blast. I know legal wrangles can take an inordinate amount of time but I do look forward to hearing that TFP have re-secured their rights to 7DtD and that the update is then proceeding. Until then, thanks for sharing the information above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meganoth Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 ... So many words and you still haven't shown a single quote where "TFP is now trying to make it seem [...] that they always had our back". Irrespective of their responsibilities or their involvement, where do the give the impression they "had our back" in the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skillz_over_9000 Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 So many words and you still haven't shown a single quote where "TFP is now trying to make it seem [...] that they always had our back". Irrespective of their responsibilities or their involvement, where do the give the impression they "had our back" in the past. Well apparently talking to you is like talking to a wall. If its not obvious that a company who was involved with the port of their game since day 1 in some fashion had an interest in consol players their is no point in talking to you. You like sytherin can make every excuses in the book for TFP but the fact is they were involved in some way or fashion. They now have both tried to distance them by claiming their hands are tied but also that they will support us if able. I feel the real issue is TFP just don't know how to operate as a company. They chose to put focus into PC and everyone else is left waiting for them to say literally anything about their plans. As a consol player i would not buy anything under their name again regardless if they had any form of involvement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 Well apparently talking to you is like talking to a wall. If its not obvious that a company who was involved with the port of their game since day 1 in some fashion had an interest in consol players their is no point in talking to you. You like sytherin can make every excuses in the book for TFP but the fact is they were involved in some way or fashion. Let's put this to bed skillz. You are absolutely correct that TFP was involved with the port of their game since Day 1 and worked closely with Iron Galaxy. That being said Iron Galaxy are the experts in regards to Xbox and Playstation architecture and the console version is largely their baby. TFP just have no experience with programming for the xbox or playstation so their role was mostly supportive -- answering questions about intent and providing source code when required and making decisions on what could/should go into the console version. TFP is very interested and grateful for all their fans whether they play the game on PC or console. They think of their fans as fans of their game and not fans of a platform. They now have both tried to distance them by claiming their hands are tied but also that they will support us if able. They are not now trying to distance themselves. In fact, the opposite, is true. They are fighting and struggling through legal processes to regain the console rights so that they can take over and continue. Their hands are literally tied by courts and legal proceedings and bureaucratic red tape. There are a lot of hoops to jump through and they are jumping-- but -- they can't talk about it publicly. The only announcement or progress update will be at the end of the process when they can (hopefully) announce they were successful. I feel the real issue is TFP just don't know how to operate as a company. They chose to put focus into PC and everyone else is left waiting for them to say literally anything about their plans. As a consol player i would not buy anything under their name again regardless if they had any form of involvement Then you will most certainly miss out on future exciting gaming, my friend. I know what they have planned and if you are lucky enough to get it on console I doubt you will be able to resist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandman2838 Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 Roland, Thanks for the clarification of TFP's role in the development of the console version, and for confirming that their involvement in the development was more than merely plastering their name on the cases. That being said, I would pose two sets of questions that perhaps you could pass on to TFP. 1) If the MD5 problem is not related to the MD5 hash algorithm, then why is it called an MD5 rewrite? If it is an MD5 hash algorithm problem couldn't that be alleviated by using a different hash algorithm, ie sha256 or others less likely to experience a collision (assuming it is a collision that's causing the rewrite.) Or simply rewrite how the program responds to a collision, (ie instead of resetting to day one, roll back to last save.) 2) Understanding that this game had created a rather dedicated, almost cult-like following, finding solutions to the problems plaguing the game are far more important, and valuable to the players than adding content to an already broken system. Are they planning on addressing the connection problems and constant crashes that plague the multiplayer version on both platforms? It just seems that if the systems are already taxed and barely able to keep up, adding more content isn't exactly what we need. Also, unless I missed it, TTG is not in bankruptcy, but in "Assignment for the Benefit of Creditors" a process started well before the company officially closed. Though akin to bankruptcy, it moves much faster, which is good. I am dealing with a company that went bankrupt in 2017 and am still waiting for the finalized judgement and the paultry pennies on the dollar settlement I might receive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meganoth Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 Well apparently talking to you is like talking to a wall. If its not obvious that a company who was involved with the port of their game since day 1 in some fashion had an interest in consol players their is no point in talking to you. You like sytherin can make every excuses in the book for TFP but the fact is they were involved in some way or fashion. They now have both tried to distance them by claiming their hands are tied but also that they will support us if able. I feel the real issue is TFP just don't know how to operate as a company. They chose to put focus into PC and everyone else is left waiting for them to say literally anything about their plans. As a consol player i would not buy anything under their name again regardless if they had any form of involvement To me it is obvious that either you or I don't know what the expression "trying to make it seem ... that they had our back" really means. Ok, lets drop it, there is no use in continuing that debate. You say they are claiming their hands are tied. Do you doubt that statement? Why exactly? I think it is relatively safe to assume that they don't have the rights to the code IG produced and maybe other rights and need that to continue if they don't want to start from zero. Why do you think this is unlikely? Notice Roland let slip that they want to hire IG in case they get the rights (not surprising at all). This is something you probably won't hear from TFP officially until the paint is dry on the contract. As has been the case on the PC side since A16 they never tell us any plans (or try it at least), because when they did announce plans and ideas too many people thought of them as promised features. But what would it help you if they declare their plans now when they can't even be sure that they get the rights or IG is free at the time they have the rights again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freestyle604 Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 They are not now trying to distance themselves. In fact, the opposite, is true. They are fighting and struggling through legal processes to regain the console rights so that they can take over and continue. Their hands are literally tied by courts and legal proceedings and bureaucratic red tape. There are a lot of hoops to jump through and they are jumping-- but -- they can't talk about it publicly. The only announcement or progress update will be at the end of the process when they can (hopefully) announce they were successful. Then you will most certainly miss out on future exciting gaming, my friend. I know what they have planned and if you are lucky enough to get it on console I doubt you will be able to resist. Roland, I really hope you are right, but I believe in the end we are going to find out it was unsuccessful for one of 100 different reasons. TFP hands are not tied by the courts as they are not in court. TTG hands might be tied, but not sure how this isn't just public knowledge. Most bankruptcies are public knowledge. I understand this isn't a pure bankruptcy, but according to some sites it is similar to bankruptcy, which is generally public knowledge. Since TFP ended the agreement when they found out about TTG the asset of 7DTD for console is now about worthless to anyone but TFP. Without TFP blessing buying the game in its current state would be worthless as you wouldn't be able to make an update once again without TFP blessing. In the end I see TFP saying it would be too expensive to keep both PC and console running. I understand business and most businesses are in business to make money. Just like the update not happening last year. When you stop getting info things are not going your way. Thank you for your input Roland, but we are not lucky enough to know what you know so we are in the dark and I hope you can understand why some are frustrated. Still no reason to be nasty but hearing from TFP once in a while would be nice. Seeing how the T-shirt post and Twitter contest only made the PC forums, I hope you understand why some feel like the console gets no love. Once again thank you for your input as it does mean something when we get any kind of info. I get people will flame bad news, but some of us are big boys, and big girls who understand honesty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freestyle604 Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 Notice Roland let slip that they want to hire IG in case they get the rights (not surprising at all). This is something you probably won't hear from TFP officially until the paint is dry on the contract. Sorry I missed where this was said. Can you tell me where you read that post? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skillz_over_9000 Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 Thank you for your input Roland, but we are not lucky enough to know what you know so we are in the dark and I hope you can understand why some are frustrated. Still no reason to be nasty but hearing from TFP once in a while would be nice. Seeing how the T-shirt post and Twitter contest only made the PC forums, I hope you understand why some feel like the console gets no love. This exactly. Why isn't this on the consol site? Why is there nothing since 2016 on our version? No updates, no here's whats going on with TT and IG, hell even a drawing for people posting their maps would be something. To a lot of us it seems since 2016 TFP has decided to only operate in the shadows as support for TT and IG but has no real connect with ps4 and xbox players. We know they are involved in some form so why wouldnt you promote something you have your hands in It's just unfortunate to see TFP post regularly regarding PC and we don't get anything in 3 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 This exactly. Why isn't this on the consol site? Why is there nothing since 2016 on our version? No updates, no here's whats going on with TT and IG, hell even a drawing for people posting their maps would be something. To a lot of us it seems since 2016 TFP has decided to only operate in the shadows as support for TT and IG but has no real connect with ps4 and xbox players. We know they are involved in some form so why wouldnt you promote something you have your hands in It's just unfortunate to see TFP post regularly regarding PC and we don't get anything in 3 years. It was easy as pie for me to check the date of the OP of this very thread you are participating in to see November 2018 and the also to find the most recent update on the patch that was being readied for release which was July 2018. Maybe your finger slipped and you typed a 6. Yes, that must be the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meganoth Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 Sorry I missed where this was said. Can you tell me where you read that post? In post #255 "Once TFP gets those rights then they can take over paying Iron Galaxy and the update will be able to be finished.". Now I don't know if Roland heard something from inside or is just speculating but I assume that he knows a few more details than we do to make an informed guess at least. And really, it is the most logical course anyway, TFP itself doesn't have the man power and not the console knowledge, a new developer would have to familiarize itself with the code. IG simply has a lead of weeks or months over any other developer, even TFP itself. ... TFP hands are not tied by the courts as they are not in court. TTG hands might be tied, but not sure how this isn't just public knowledge. ... "not tied" to do what? They might have the right to publish a new port of 7D2D on console, they would just need to do the work IG did in months or years again. BUT the code IG produced was financed and owned by TTG, how could the rights to that have transfered to TFP? Surely not because TFP canceled the contract with TTG. TTG would have been bonkers to get into a contract where the other party could simply cancel and get everything TTG payed for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freestyle604 Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 "BUT the code IG produced was financed and owned by TTG, how could the rights to that have transfered to TFP? Surely not because TFP canceled the contract with TTG. TTG would have been bonkers to get into a contract where the other party could simply cancel and get everything TTG payed for." Wouldn't TFP be bonkers to not have had something in the contract to protect their property? As I see it now, the asset is 7D2D on console in it's current state. According to this thread TFP terminated the agreement and no updates or sequels can be made to 7D2D since TFP terminated the agreement. So who is going to pay for the game on console right now as it stands knowing that even if you purchase the rights unless you make a new deal with TFP you cannot do anything? I am sure TFP were smart enough to prevent their code from being sold to someone else. Which brings me back to my point on this discussion, who is going to spend money on a game you cannot do anything with? Unless people think console users will buy DLC or pay for an update there will be no ROI for anyone who buys TTG's 7D2D asset. Of course I have not seen or read the agreement between TFP and TTG, and I am assuming no one who is posting on here has either. I hope I am wrong and will gladly apologise if I am incorrect. But as I have always said, when the communication stops coming things are not going to go the way you want them to go. I forget when in April the court deal is supposed to happen but it should be coming up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skillz_over_9000 Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 It was easy as pie for me to check the date of the OP of this very thread you are participating in to see November 2018 and the also to find the most recent update on the patch that was being readied for release which was July 2018. Maybe your finger slipped and you typed a 6. Yes, that must be the case. nope i specifically meant facebook, twitter etc. where thie game is very active. I would argue this thread would have/should have been closed months ago but it's the only means for consol players to talk and get our yearly update lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SylenThunder Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 nope i specifically meant facebook, twitter etc. where thie game is very active. I would argue this thread would have/should have been closed months ago but it's the only means for consol players to talk and get our yearly update lol Facebook and Twitter wouldn't bo considered "official news" locations. Only the official forum would, and that's what this is. I don't understand the way people rely on social media platforms to give them news, instead of checking the actual source itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luckystrike2778 Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 I dont care if we get anymore added to the game o r not. I bought a "finished product" that couldn't and still can't be played like it was advertised. Some problems were fixed but too many remain. I just want it fixed and working as advertised and intended. Sorry about how frustrated I was in my last post. Thanks for the edit Sy. I appreciate the game advaning in development and we got a ton of free stuff added. I just wanna enjoy it as intended with or without anymore upgrades beyond bug fixes is all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pur3 demon v Posted April 5, 2019 Share Posted April 5, 2019 So Claire general question here are we really going to see an update for 7 Days to Die and before any PC bangers jump in and say anything this is a general question because as far as console players are aware our money went to fix your game so we want to see progress as well go back to my question and that is are we really going to see an update because it's been over 2 years you have been promising an update and then some crap story about telltales with no one really gives a cares about them or yous just babbling a lot of bullcrap just to shut people up cause thats what lots of people are seeing and we are hearing alpha 17 this alpha 17 that PC this PC that wheres the console hmm cash grab more like it anyways back to you funpimps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meganoth Posted April 5, 2019 Share Posted April 5, 2019 "BUT the code IG produced was financed and owned by TTG, how could the rights to that have transfered to TFP? Surely not because TFP canceled the contract with TTG. TTG would have been bonkers to get into a contract where the other party could simply cancel and get everything TTG payed for." Wouldn't TFP be bonkers to not have had something in the contract to protect their property? They obviously had something that allowed them to protect their property (in the future), they did remove the rights of TTG to publish a new version of 7D2D. But it seems they didn't have the right to forbid TTG to sell the current game for example: https://store.playstation.com/de-de/product/EP2026-CUSA03455_00-0000000000000000 , with TTG listed as owner (It may be an oversight or TFP not exercising their rights though). This doesn't tell us who owns the code (aka software) written by IG, it just is an indication that not everything might have transfered. A contract that would allow TFP to suddenly own software that TTG produced is surely possible, even though I see it as very unlikely because it would seem disadvantageous to TTG, but I have as much information as you about this. But then what is auctioned off now? Either there is something at the auction to sell. And the rights to the code really is the thing that makes the most sense. Or TFP is lying and there is nothing for them to get there. But I really don't see what TFP could gain by such a lie because the assets sold off are public, anyone (journalists, lawyers...) can just check pacer or ask the courts for that information. As I see it now, the asset is 7D2D on console in it's current state. According to this thread TFP terminated the agreement and no updates or sequels can be made to 7D2D since TFP terminated the agreement. So who is going to pay for the game on console right now as it stands knowing that even if you purchase the rights unless you make a new deal with TFP you cannot do anything? So with "7D2D on console in its current state" you mean the rather old version that is sold on the playstation store, right? Not the software that is 3/4 on the way to a new version according to TFP. Even if only that asset were sold someone might bid on that in the hope of further sales in the playstation store. When 7D2D goes out of EA and continues to be successful he could hope for more sales on playstation from people who don't check exactly what they are getting or are just interested in seeing what 7D2D is like. They might not pay 30 $ or euros, but if he sells it for 15, he still get a lot of sales. This is not likely but possible. Also that someone might bid on it and hope TFP will buy from him for a slighty increased price, say 5% more. This is a common practice on practically all auction platforms, But if it is only that old 7D2D version, why would TFP even bid on it? If they already owned the code IG produced they could just put up a version made a few days after the release of the old version and call it 1.1. So again, since TFP wants to bid on the auction (if we believe that), then they are after the code parts that IG produced, the parts produced after the current playstation version. I don't see anything else they could need. I am sure TFP were smart enough to prevent their code from being sold to someone else. Their code yes, BUT NOT IG's code. What is IG's code? Simply the code that is left after you subtract all of TFP's lines. Unusable on its own, sure (so TFP surely is protected even if someone else gets it), but payed for with TTG's money and very probably owned by them. Otherwise TFP would have no reason to bid in that auction. Which brings me back to my point on this discussion, who is going to spend money on a game you cannot do anything with? Unless people think console users will buy DLC or pay for an update there will be no ROI for anyone who buys TTG's 7D2D asset. Please google the term "long tail". The old 7D2D version on the playstation store is NOT worthless. And the new code is worth as much as TFP is willing to pay for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SylenThunder Posted April 5, 2019 Share Posted April 5, 2019 So Claire general question here are we really going to see an update for 7 Days to Die and before any PC bangers jump in and say anything this is a general question because as far as console players are aware our money went to fix your game so we want to see progress as well go back to my question and that is are we really going to see an update because it's been over 2 years you have been promising an update and then some crap story about telltales with no one really gives a cares about them or yous just babbling a lot of bullcrap just to shut people up cause thats what lots of people are seeing and we are hearing alpha 17 this alpha 17 that PC this PC that wheres the console hmm cash grab more like it anyways back to you funpimps You really need to try reading more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skillz_over_9000 Posted April 5, 2019 Share Posted April 5, 2019 Facebook and Twitter wouldn't bo considered "official news" locations. Only the official forum would, and that's what this is. I don't understand the way people rely on social media platforms to give them news, instead of checking the actual source itself. Well in this situation its because this site has been awful for relaying info since day 1. Again, great for pc players but thats it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SylenThunder Posted April 5, 2019 Share Posted April 5, 2019 Well in this situation its because this site has been awful for relaying info since day 1. Again, great for pc players but thats it Well it's obviously doing better than either Twitter, Facebook, or TellTales own forum. So looks like it would be the best place to be looking. Go figure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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