LuckyStar Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 Wondering what your plans were for dealing with them. I'm thinking maybe an empty layer below the surface filled with spikes. My mine can be below that .... and I "should" be safe to mine at night right? I don't care about Horde nights, I prefer to have an above ground kill box. Even with the new AI my old design will work fine. Anyway, ...just wondering what your thoughts were on strategies that might work. Digging zombies are coming!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viktoriusiii Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 Stay above the surface! I personally hope, even if im doubtful, that zombies wont dig tgrou 40 block of dirt but actually look aound for an entrance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morloc Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 Be prepared for Ant Farm Simulator. -Morloc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RestInPieces Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 Well, if zombies can dig effectively, nothing in the underground because it will eventually become "above ground". As a fan of building underground, I hope that a better solution is found for making the underground more engaging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syncrinity Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 I guess it depends how well the zombies are programmed. If they are attracted directly above our main heat and dig straight down, that's going to be a problem. If they are programmed to search for the entrance better, it gives us better opportunities to set up traps or detours. I'm personally going to build above ground and spend more time actively defending my goods. But they are also improving the normal Zed AI above ground so it might be more difficult too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldManBrian Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 As long as they have to search for a cave entrance and can path through it then we're good, I just have an entrance defense to deal with. Otherwise there's gonna be holes dug all over, attacks from all sides, cats and dogs living together, mass hysteria, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuckyStar Posted October 30, 2018 Author Share Posted October 30, 2018 I ...If they are attracted directly above our main heat and dig straight down, that's going to be a problem... That's actually beneficial for us. Placing a trap knowing they'll dig down to get at your forge is like calling for delivery. Place traps accordingly and you're golden. Shame they won't have loot! You know.... since we're not getting loot from zeds shouldn't we at least get Exp from trap kills? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RestInPieces Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 You know.... since we're not getting loot from zeds shouldn't we at least get Exp from trap kills? Passively grinding levels would be a bad idea... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuckyStar Posted October 30, 2018 Author Share Posted October 30, 2018 Passively grinding levels would be a bad idea... State your case. Since traps require resources and they degrade with use, it's viable. I'm not saying they should give a LOT of exp, maybe very little but something. Brains over brawn kinda thing. Reward ingenuity. There's already ways to grind zombies. Make a pit, lure them in, one-hit them from behind a barrier. Tadaaa! So... state your case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guppycur Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 I was never really an underground dweller, but I suspect underground will still be able to do better than above ground. Time saved is time saved... Anyway, down, across, up halfway, sit and wait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjiro Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 I was never really an underground dweller, but I suspect underground will still be able to do better than above ground. Time saved is time saved... Anyway, down, across, up halfway, sit and wait. I think above ground will be more resource friendly. You can take over a POI with more easy. Have you seen how fast a few zombies can turn a mountain into Swiss cheese. The block damage they produce is no joke. You on the other hand are going to need to dig into stone with your cheap stone axes because iron seems to be also a more delayed perk setup. Even if you dig down with more advanced tools, all that sits between you are a few to a dozen 500HP blocks... Let alone if they hit a patch with sand. Resealing a underground base after a horde, is going to be much more time consuming as you need to fill all those holes. Much easier on a above ground base. And do not forget that any zombie can dig down, so normal zombies, screamer generated, mini hords, bloodmoon hords. ..... The only defense i see is putting layer after layer with pikes, so when they step on them, they dig down, destroy the top spike and are hit on all 5 sides from level -1 ( below, 4 directions ) and are killed this way. If they destroy -1, then level -2 takes care of them. That is the real weakness in zombies that are heavily focused on digging down only. And you use your body like a pendulum to direct the zombies to your trap area. If you move around in your underground base, its possible they start digging outside this zone and bypass your traps. Another way is the old "big deep and open pit" with traps at the bottom and your base in the middle. So they take fall damage and are on your level but that is not really underground anymore when its a open pit. But that is also more late game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katitof Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 People who lived on bedrock have no plan for this, it will be their first real blood moon engagement ever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravend Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 Mole traps, really big freakin mole traps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euzio Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 It really depends with how they are coded to detect us. If its zeroing in right on top of us and then digging straight down, its actually pretty easy to deal with since we can make a trap pit with all sorts of traps just aiming into it. If they follow the breadcrumb system and look for the entrance it would make defending the entrance a priority. In which case it would necessitate a pillbox of some sort to defend the entrance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuckyStar Posted October 31, 2018 Author Share Posted October 31, 2018 It really depends with how they are coded to detect us. If its zeroing in right on top of us and then digging straight down, its actually pretty easy to deal with since we can make a trap pit with all sorts of traps just aiming into it. If they follow the breadcrumb system and look for the entrance it would make defending the entrance a priority. In which case it would necessitate a pillbox of some sort to defend the entrance. Yeah that brings up some questions doesn't it? 1) Will they be actively looking for hatches? 2) Will they know how to navigate ramps with gaps? [Jumping would be necessary] 3) How far underground will they be able to hear us? 4) How DO they get the caramel inside the chocolate? Some things to think about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pico Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 Yeah that brings up some questions doesn't it? 1) Will they be actively looking for hatches? 2) Will they know how to navigate ramps with gaps? [Jumping would be necessary] 3) How far underground will they be able to hear us? 4) How DO they get the caramel inside the chocolate? Some things to think about. An underground ramp with a jump gap will be useless if the Z's can dig. It'll simply become a ramp with a drop, from there they just have to tunnel horizontally a few blocks to be back onto the ramp again. But that same feature then becomes a trap for the player as he/she then has to try to ascend a ramp full of holes that lead to the bottom of the previous jump face, although a ladder or frame staircase from there would still provide an exit option... if you've gone in prepared for this scenario, but bad news if unprepared, or with a horde of Z's on your butt.... good luck mining out a new escape path while they shamble towards you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RestInPieces Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 State your case. Are you asking me why shouldn't there be a way to automatically grind zombies and level up passively, when you can already control how approximately many zombies can attack you (via heat, screamers), which would be by far the easiest (trap maintenance is no big deal), less risky way to level up as soon as possible while being semi-afk? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fyrdrinc Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 Easy. If the AI digs in a straight-down, predictable way, it'll be easy to make a containment method with a kill chamber. I have done this before. If the AI tries to path, you build defensive checkpoints along the ingress and egress. If the AI swiss cheeses, what you do is buttress the roof of your base and build high enough ceilings that they will tend to break their legs on the fall. In any case, it just makes you periodically look around at the ground over your base and look for holes to plug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rez090 Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 I hope they don't add digging zombies, one of the reason why people love this game is the base building. You keep adding more ways to punish people for building a base, people will leave the game. That is not fun at all. I know the game is half survival half building, but it seems like the game keeps trying to push the building aspect out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzHawkeye Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 I hope they don't add digging zombies, one of the reason why people love this game is the base building. You keep adding more ways to punish people for building a base, people will leave the game. That is not fun at all. I know the game is half survival half building, but it seems like the game keeps trying to push the building aspect out. Hopefully those that don't want them could mod them out easily enough. If it is moddable, I'd expect a mod for it to be available pretty quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scyris Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 I guess it depends how well the zombies are programmed. If they are attracted directly above our main heat and dig straight down, that's going to be a problem. If they are programmed to search for the entrance better, it gives us better opportunities to set up traps or detours. I'm personally going to build above ground and spend more time actively defending my goods. But they are also improving the normal Zed AI above ground so it might be more difficult too. Pretty sure they only dig if they see you, as they are set to not destroy blocks when just wandering around, so a wandering horde will pass right over your underground base most likely even in a17 with the exception of horde night, as your hunted the entire time, so they will then dig for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syncrinity Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 Pretty sure they only dig if they see you, as they are set to not destroy blocks when just wandering around, so a wandering horde will pass right over your underground base most likely even in a17 with the exception of horde night, as your hunted the entire time, so they will then dig for you. That leaves me wondering how well the zeds will be programmed to detect heat signatures. If you're underground and are causing alot of heat, will the zeds above just start digging down or stay above and spin in circles? This discussion also allows for some other fun aspects to underground base design. As mentioned in response to my earlier comment, perhaps zeds digging straight down will be beneficial. We can have intermission spots between the base underneath and the ground level to have traps. The entrance can be off to the side and lead back to the spot underneath the trap area. All things considered, I'm pretty excited to see how much of a threat the new AI will be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuckyStar Posted November 1, 2018 Author Share Posted November 1, 2018 Are you asking me why shouldn't there be a way to automatically grind zombies and level up passively, when you can already control how approximately many zombies can attack you (via heat, screamers), which would be by far the easiest (trap maintenance is no big deal), less risky way to level up as soon as possible while being semi-afk? Sounds like you think you're going to poof a magic wand and the zombies will grind. Any trap takes resources. Every block the damages zeds take damage itself thus requires upkeep. I'm not sure I see your point here. Why is passive experience such a sin in your eyes? It's already been stated that the exp shouldn't be as much but why nothing at all? [i've underlined that because you've ignored it so far] You haven't made a case here, in my eyes, just a sort of knee-jerk reaction. Sorry but I can't agree with you when you give no reasons to understand your point. I'm not saying you're wrong, I just want to understand your perspective. I think it's a good topic to [respectfully] debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RestInPieces Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 Sounds like you think you're going to poof a magic wand and the zombies will grind. Any trap takes resources. Every block the damages zeds take damage itself thus requires upkeep. I'm not sure I see your point here. Why is passive experience such a sin in your eyes? It's already been stated that the exp shouldn't be as much but why nothing at all? [i've underlined that because you've ignored it so far] You haven't made a case here, in my eyes, just a sort of knee-jerk reaction. Sorry but I can't agree with you when you give no reasons to understand your point. I'm not saying you're wrong, I just want to understand your perspective. I think it's a good topic to [respectfully] debate. It's definitely not without some resource loss and maintenance as you said. But you can't compare them with the risk and resources you would spend by killing them yourself. Am I wrong? I wouldn't call it a sin, just an extravagant way to gain experience. I am sorry I seemed to ignore it, it's just that I believe that even minimal xp from traps (say 1/10) would accumulate easily to be by far the best way to earn xp in parallel with whatever else the player is doing. People will start avoiding killing screamers and attracting as many zombies as they can via the heat system into their meatgrinder farm with a constant zombie influx 24/7. As a result any other form of gaining exp will lose any substantial meaning and in the end, since people will look for a good way to get xp, players will be encouraged to do it over other options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuckyStar Posted November 1, 2018 Author Share Posted November 1, 2018 It's definitely not without some resource loss and maintenance as you said. But you can't compare them with the risk and resources you would spend by killing them yourself. Am I wrong? I wouldn't call it a sin, just an extravagant way to gain experience. I am sorry I seemed to ignore it, it's just that I believe that even minimal xp from traps (say 1/10) would accumulate easily to be by far the best way to earn xp in parallel with whatever else the player is doing. People will start avoiding killing screamers and attracting as many zombies as they can via the heat system into their meatgrinder farm with a constant zombie influx 24/7. As a result any other form of gaining exp will lose any substantial meaning and in the end, since people will look for a good way to get xp, players will be encouraged to do it over other options. Okay let me see if I've understood what you're saying. You feel that if players aren't killing them by hand, they aren't doing it right and should be "encouraged" to play correctly? Let's see what we agree on. - We agree that it does take some resources to upkeep traps. - We agree that it's considerably less than killing up close and personal. After that I think we diverge. If it's just a matter of balancing effort/resources, then make the passive exp equivalent. Maybe 1/100th per kill. Then it's time management that determines how players will deal with zeds. Sure you can passively grind them but it takes way longer to level than smacking a dozen zeds on the head. I'm not sure limiting players to one style of play [or "encouraging" as you put it,] is necessarily good for the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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