Kickstarter Goals Abandoned?!?

[JaxTeller718]

It won’t be boring because some found weapons will come with a random mod already attached. So there will actually be more variation in weapons that can be found than ever before.

 

Yes but once you find that weapon with the extra mod you never have any need to go find another one, or a better one. Use it up til its last bit of health, repair it, it's STILL a Blue Quality with the same mods. And it will never be less than that.

 

I appreciate the spin you are trying to put on it, but i don't see how this new repair system is something that is going to "add" variation to the game.

 

I can add variation to the game NOW in 16 by creating 10 different club variations, the difference is all of them would degrade over use. THAT is actually variation. So again HOW is this an improvement?

 

Or lets use guns as an example here.

 

Day 1 I find a blue Sniper, day 3 I find 2 mods to attach to it. Its end game for me and that sniper. Whereas before I had to maintain the quality, hope to find better qualities or a repair book, and also use the Combine system to upgrade all the parts in my quest to make the perfect sniper. Now 90 percent of that is gone.

 

Talk about arcade-y.

[RestInPieces]

it made you lose wellness that is hard to gain back, sure it magically cured all your health problems, but you still had to work your ass to regain your wellness and the death being a universal magic cure is no longer the case in Alpha 17 - this change was mentioned in one of the videos.

 

Make an effort to gain wellness back, for which reason exactly? Some more max health/stamina, even less with the "health nut" perk, which I could outheal/outregen, never motivated me in the least, even at higher difficulties. Dying regularly and resetting your status was much more beneficial. Same with every one I've ever played with. Wellness was a good concept, but poorly implemented. I don't remember any information about death in any of the videos. Can you link?

[Roland]

Yes but once you find that weapon with the extra mod you never have any need to go find another one, or a better one. Use it up til its last bit of health, repair it, it's STILL a Blue Quality with the same mods. And it will never be less than that.

 

I appreciate the spin you are trying to put on it, but i don't see how this new repair system is something that is going to "add" variation to the game.

 

I can add variation to the game NOW in 16 by creating 10 different club variations, the difference is all of them would degrade over use. THAT is actually variation. So again HOW is this an improvement?

 

Or lets use guns as an example here.

 

Day 1 I find a blue Sniper, day 3 I find 2 mods to attach to it. Its end game for me and that sniper. Whereas before I had to maintain the quality, hope to find better qualities or a repair book, and also use the Combine system to upgrade all the parts in my quest to make the perfect sniper. Now 90 percent of that is gone.

 

Talk about arcade-y.

 

Spin? Devolver was talking about how boring it would be to find weapons because they are all basically the same with the only difference being mod slots between them. I answered that finding guns would not be boring because some would have a mod already attached so there would still be a lot of variation.

 

I wasn’t talking about repair at all much less trying to put some kind of pleasant spin on it. I don’t know what the final verdict of the repair system will be. All I can report is how it is right now. I highly doubt that Gazz will just let it be a freebee. That’s not really how he rolls.

 

What’s next? Oh I know... I should stop trying to put a spin on there being no bandits in the game yet by saying scavenging guns will not be as boring as Devolver fears...

[meganoth]

Higher durability may or may not really be a motivation for trying to find a "higher quality" weapon, I gave you enough reasons to think that way later in that post and just because you doubt that will be the case doesn't mean it will be somehow different, but we will have to see when it's released. I am skeptical though. And higher mod capacity is really just one reason and even that may not help much if your current weapon already has all the mods you really want.

 

Yes. You are absolutely correct that if the highest weapon quality has 6 mod slots and there are not enough mods to fill all these slots the motivation isn't there to look for better weapons.

 

The obvious solution is to provide at least as many interesting mods as there are slots. [irony] I'm sure Gazz didn't think of that at all, let's tell him [irony off]

 

My point was that you should feel like you're accomplishing something for your hard work, you should feel like you're getting somewhere for risking your life. If you find a weapon that's higher quality than your current weapon but you never manage to find those pesky mods you prefer, that will render into frustration rather than feeling of accomplishment. You don't really want a game in which the only reward for hard work is more hard work, do you?

 

In A?? up to A16 you could find a sniper rifle barrel, stock and parts but never manage to find the receiver. How is that for frustration? I tell you, you probably never felt frustration because the game offered enough possibilities for you to get that receiver. If not in a container then at the trader or in the air supply box. It will be the same for mods now.

 

 

Well, before Alpha 17, you could find weapon parts in some usual places, but even then a chance of finding the parts you were actually looking for was very small and since we won't find weapon parts anymore, only fully assembled weapons, I expect that chance of finding the one you're looking for (to replace your lower quality weapon) will be even smaller. You will most likely get tons of the same low quality weapons before you finally get one of "higher quality".

 

Yes, that is my expectation too (i.e. lots of low quality weapons). Your hard decision now will be whether you put your best mods into the low-quality weapons or keep them back for a better quality weapon. In the latter case you have a big motivation for finding the better weapon, right? And if you already have the better gun but not the high quality mods, do you put low quality mods into your good weapon or wait for better mods?

 

The fun part for the player is to decide exactly how to get the most out of the cards (aka weapons and mods) he gets dealt, just like in a good poker game.

 

It all boils down to the need for good balance which will have to feel just right on the spot, otherwise it will be discouraging if not totally frustrating. Unfortunately, this topic is delicate even more now that they actually need to make the weapons more rare to begin with, so this overall balance conflict will inevitably occur. I can imagine that even finding the lowest tier weapon will feel like a miracle and you better keep it safe, because you won't be getting a new one any time soon, which again would be another reason for a skill that lowers the degradation rate of your weapons. That would be a part of balance too, you don't have to buy that skill if you don't want to, but if you do, you might be unable to buy a different skill that would help you more later in the game, so it's kinda self-balancing game mechanics and it definitely wouldn't come at no cost at all.

 

Agree on the balance thing. Disagree on the hypothesis low tier weapons could be hard to find. Because it must be acceptable to put points into SMG if you plan on being an SMG specialist, a low tier SMG should be reasonably easy to get. Same as in any well-designed RPG where the trader in the starting or a low level town has the lowest quality version of any weapon type available to not constrict you in choosing your weapon specialization.

 

Lets be serious, for all the talk about making stuff scarce TFP have never made an alpha where stuff was really scarce in default vanilla. They have to balance the game for beginners in normal difficulty, an experienced player always knew how to get anything he wanted. Sure, there were items like the wrench that provided single point of failures in some alphas. But mods are not single points of failure. As far as I know they already hinted at mods having versions of different quality and surely low quality versions of any mod will be easy to find.

[meganoth]

No they don’t. The modification slots have been added to vehicles. Eventually there will be enhancements for those like they are doing for weapons in A17. That’s a bit deeper for customizable vehicles.

 

"Faster reload" and "laser scope" mods for vehicles confirmed

[Benjiro]

Woah...quell the nerd rage dude. I didn’t look at the Kickstarter page that closely and just went off the face value of the graphic. I see you are correct and will edit my post. They ARE obligated to do vehicles and they ARE doing vehicles— so no harm.

 

Roland, it has nothing to do with nerd rage. Its not that hard to look at the dollar sign. Even more so when its posted again 3 posts below your own post, ...

 

I have seen so many times Roland where people posted "but the TFP did not need to make random gen, and they still did it". "TFP did not need to make Smooth Terrain but they did it". Yet, it was a actually stretch goal that was met. But TFPs get credit for being nice guys for something they needed to do anyway. All because people keep telling inaccurate information ( and we know who has been posting that, don't we Roland *wink* ).

 

How so?

Promise: vehicles

Delivery: Minibike, Bicycle, Motorcycle, Jeep, Gyrocopter

 

I don’t think the phrase “over promise and under deliver” means what you think it means.

 

Not denying the new vehicles in game. 5 Years too late but finally.

 

I am referring to all the rest. You know, that big "nerd" post. The issue is see a lot is people like TFPs and official people like you Roland, posting how everything is great under the sun but then forget how much really was promised and how much still is missing.

 

Do not forget they promised all that, for 500k. This is "over promise". It took them 5 years, millions of income and a lot of those features are still missing. That is the "under deliver" part.

 

Yes, i do not deny they did changes that are not listed, like the increase in graphics ( well, technically that is also a stretch goal but lets have them have this one ).

 

When i see 7D2D in the kickstart, you feel existed. When you see what 7D2D is A17 is becoming... Yes, their are a lot of good changes but why does the game turn more and more into some mmorpg/console game play. The fact that they sold this as a PC title but then start to change the game to make it easier on consoles is not exactly "nice". I am very open about the new perk system but you can feel how the game is being pushed into a style that is not "the old 7D2D". Every version seems to be stripping more and more into simplifying things. Its taking out the soul of the game. Pointing to mods does not solve the issues. Even more so when features are scrapped so mods can not re-implement them without the source code.

 

I know you are the local happy, happy everything is great, lets give it a chance fanboy Roland *lol*. But i gave A16 a chance and i hate the changes. Changes that did not need to be made. Spam crafting was so easy to solve. Looking at it from a programmer perceptive. Why do people spam? Because the default tools / weapons are too weak. Solve it by increasing the default level. Fix spam crafting by increasing the time to craft by ten fold. Solved. Easy ... But you see TFPs already moving to the A17 perk system in A16. And you had no choice. Accept it, that is the new way. Or mods ( who can now not implement the old system anymore without a massive rebuild of the entire game ). The new system is so Generic, its silly.

 

Anyway, i will stop whining because i know its useless. I hate what 7D2D is becoming. Another generic stupid console / mmorpg like game without the soul it had before. And it annoying me to hell.

 

 

By the way, coming back to the Kickstarter:

 

Let me ask this again, where is Tom-Clark his zombie. He paid 5000 dollars for his zombie in-game.

 

https://7daystodie.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Zombie_Concep_Tom-_Clark_sm.jpg

 

Do you see it in-game because i do not see it in ... A15, A16, A17 ...

[GODif]

By the way, coming back to the Kickstarter:

 

Let me ask this again, where is Tom-Clark his zombie. He paid 5000 dollars for his zombie in-game.

 

https://7daystodie.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Zombie_Concep_Tom-_Clark_sm.jpg

 

Do you see it in-game because i do not see it in ... A15, A16, A17 ...

 

 

I thought tom clark was the spider zombie

[Benjiro]

I thought tom clark was the spider zombie

 

https://7daystodie.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Zombie_Concep_Tom-_Clark_sm.jpg

https://d1u5p3l4wpay3k.cloudfront.net/7daystodie_gamepedia/d/dd/SpiderZombNew.jpg?version=e13421fa93fc7371993f7736bd8f599a

 

...

 

They look nothing alike... If the spider Zombie is Tom Clark, boy ... the only comparison i see between those is a blue pants. You mean to say he paid 5000 dollars for that?

[GODif]

https://7daystodie.com/new-zombie-concept/

 

We think Tom would make a good zombie we call the “Spider Zombie” who can climb and jump high.

[Roland]

Roland, it has nothing to do with nerd rage. Its not that hard to look at the dollar sign. Even more so when its posted again 3 posts below your own post.

 

Man, I already admitted you were right and I edited my post and left an edit note admitting I deleted incorrect information but left all the quotes alone so interested parties could see my mistake. If that’s not good enough for you I’ve got nothing left. I’m not buying you dinner...

 

I have seen so many times Roland where people posted "but the TFP did not need to make random gen, and they still did it". "TFP did not need to make Smooth Terrain but they did it". Yet, it was a actually stretch goal that was met. But TFPs get credit for being nice guys for something they needed to do anyway. All because people keep telling inaccurate information ( and we know who has been posting that, don't we Roland *wink* ).

 

I’ve never seen that. What I HAVE seen and typed myself is that TFP didn’t have to do smooth terrain until after the game released as it was given as a post release goal. But they have allowed us to play on smooth terrain for the last four and a half years.

 

Of course I have also stated that they may trade a few other goals and shift them to post release instead. I suppose that would ruffle your feathers too huh?

 

Not denying the new vehicles in game. 5 Years too late but finally.

 

I am referring to all the rest. You know, that big "nerd" post. The issue is see a lot is people like TFPs and official people like you Roland, posting how everything is great under the sun but then forget how much really was promised and how much still is missing.

 

Do not forget they promised all that, for 500k. This is "over promise". It took them 5 years, millions of income and a lot of those features are still missing. That is the "under deliver" part.

 

You’re an interesting poster Benjiro. Everything you post is factually true but colored by your outrage and opinion that it is somehow wrong. Yes it has been five years and yes there are still features missing but so....? They continue to develop and the game is available to play. Most likely the full development length for all goals will end up being around 7 years. Full release will be in 2019 with any remaining goals finished up by 2020. That’s not a bad thing in my opinion but it is in yours. There’s really no debate to be had between us. Simply, I’m happy and you’re mad by your own admission. I’m glad to be me.

 

Yes, i do not deny they did changes that are not listed, like the increase in graphics ( well, technically that is also a stretch goal but lets have them have this one ).

 

When i see 7D2D in the kickstart, you feel existed. When you see what 7D2D is A17 is becoming... Yes, their are a lot of good changes but why does the game turn more and more into some mmorpg/console game play. The fact that they sold this as a PC title but then start to change the game to make it easier on consoles is not exactly "nice". I am very open about the new perk system but you can feel how the game is being pushed into a style that is not "the old 7D2D". Every version seems to be stripping more and more into simplifying things. Its taking out the soul of the game. Pointing to mods does not solve the issues. Even more so when features are scrapped so mods can not re-implement them without the source code.

 

Again, I can’t debate the veracity of what you post. 7 Days has evolved from its original form, it does have some concessions for controller input, it is becoming more RPGish as time goes on, and there will be some dropped aspects that modders may not be able to restore. I’m sorry for you that the changes are going so much against your preferences to the point that you are angry and ready to quit the game.

 

I know you are the local happy, happy everything is great, lets give it a chance fanboy Roland *lol*.

 

I am in general a “roll with the punches” kind of guy and it does keep my happiness levels pretty high. I can’t complain. I have low blood pressure.

 

But i gave A16 a chance and i hate the changes. Changes that did not need to be made. Spam crafting was so easy to solve. Looking at it from a programmer perceptive. Why do people spam? Because the default tools / weapons are too weak. Solve it by increasing the default level. Fix spam crafting by increasing the time to craft by ten fold. Solved. Easy ...

 

Finally something to disagree on. Your “easy fix” would be the end of fun for 90% of the player base and it would not end the spam crafting. Increase craft timers tenfold? You mean increase the amount of time people spend AFK by tenfold while waiting for their timers to complete and STILL not play the actual game. You think starting at 100 quality would be enough? Not when there’s still 400 levels above that to grind to. You can rip up your Armchair Developer Diploma right now...

 

But you see TFPs already moving to the A17 perk system in A16. And you had no choice. Accept it, that is the new way. Or mods ( who can now not implement the old system anymore without a massive rebuild of the entire game ).

 

Truth. We are just along for the ride. They listen to feedback but do not make decisions by any committee that includes us.

 

The new system is so Generic, its silly.

 

Anyway, i will stop whining because i know its useless. I hate what 7D2D is becoming. Another generic stupid console / mmorpg like game without the soul it had before. And it annoying me to hell.

 

You are entitled to your opinion and to fight the changes you don’t like. I fought against square terrain blocks back when they briefly dropped the diamond ones and went with square. There were enough of us that felt the same way that TFP listened and decided they agreed. I know if they had disagreed it wouldn’t have made any difference. Like when I fought for 1x1 block ingress and TFP said to pound sand....

 

By the way, coming back to the Kickstarter:

 

Let me ask this again, where is Tom-Clark his zombie. He paid 5000 dollars for his zombie in-game.

 

https://7daystodie.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Zombie_Concep_Tom-_Clark_sm.jpg

 

Do you see it in-game because i do not see it in ... A15, A16, A17 ...

 

Sorry man, but I totally see it. Especially in the follow up posts that show the picture side by side to the zombie. It’s a good likeness in my opinion. Some people have money to burn and he obviously wanted to help out TFP. I wouldn’t pay $5000 for something like that but Tom Clark has never complained so why are you angry about it?

[JaxTeller718]

Spin? Devolver was talking about how boring it would be to find weapons because they are all basically the same with the only difference being mod slots between them. I answered that finding guns would not be boring because some would have a mod already attached so there would still be a lot of variation.

 

I wasn’t talking about repair at all much less trying to put some kind of pleasant spin on it. I don’t know what the final verdict of the repair system will be. All I can report is how it is right now. I highly doubt that Gazz will just let it be a freebee. That’s not really how he rolls.

 

What’s next? Oh I know... I should stop trying to put a spin on there being no bandits in the game yet by saying scavenging guns will not be as boring as Devolver fears...

 

Well, i can only comment based on what you initially posted. Guns can come with mods all they want, its STILL boring. At least in the way it was presented in your initial post and this follow up.

 

Its ok to not love everything you know. I am by no means reaching into bandit territory with my analysis of loot. Loot has been boring for a LONG time, even before 16 and Im sorry but the truth is this change makes loot even MORE boring.

 

Now Gazz just MAY get his hands on things and make it the most interesting thing in the world. He has not yet, so we cant talk about hypotheticals now can we? A gun can have 100 different modifications and variations found in loot but the bottom line is if it doesn't degrade then once you find it, it's a done deal.

 

A survival game thrives on the need to always be better, get better. Perks are a perfect example of them doing it 100 percent right. Which is why for now I will assume the system of modifications, repairing and quality is unfinished and will be revisited in the future since it makes no sense to simplify it so much. With parts and qualities we had multiple statistics we could control from Range to fall off to spread. Now those attributes may be present on modifications which would be pretty good compensation for the removal of parts, but if they are all baked in to the base of the gun then it greatly diminishes customization on stats in that regard.

 

Don't take my criticism to heart brother. I'm still TFP 4 Lyfe. I just have a concern. Hopefully your defensive reply is just a product of having to deal with so many jabronis recently.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

https://7daystodie.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Zombie_Concep_Tom-_Clark_sm.jpg

https://d1u5p3l4wpay3k.cloudfront.net/7daystodie_gamepedia/d/dd/SpiderZombNew.jpg?version=e13421fa93fc7371993f7736bd8f599a

 

...

 

They look nothing alike... If the spider Zombie is Tom Clark, boy ... the only comparison i see between those is a blue pants. You mean to say he paid 5000 dollars for that?

 

Are you his advocate? Why do you care? That zombie looks fine. Even if i DO hate the hell out if it

[Roland]

Here is what I said about repair and degradation of quality in my original post

 

Currently items do not degrade to lower quality tiers from repair. Whether that is something they ran out of time to do and in the future there will be some kind of repair penalty, I do not know. So there is quality and durability in A17 and it does work differently because in A17 it will be all about the attachments we can add to base weapons.

 

Here is what I said in my answer to devolver in answer to his concern that all found guns in loot will basically be the same because until a mod could be found they would for all intents and purposes be exactly the same.

 

It won’t be boring because some found weapons will come with a random mod already attached. So there will actually be more variation in weapons that can be found than ever before.

 

 

 

Well, i can only comment based on what you initially posted. Guns can come with mods all they want, its STILL boring. At least in the way it was presented in your initial post and this follow up.

 

That's fine. I can't help what you feel is boring or how much of a "sky is falling" attitude you want to take about my report of the current status of a WIP feature.

 

Its ok to not love everything you know.

 

Well, no duh. I never said you have to love it. In fact my reply to you in no way was trying to convince you that you should like the changes. It was pretty much all 100% objecting to you presenting my report as being insincere or fudged. Or do you not understand what the term "spin" means when you use it? Go back and read my reply and you'll see that I was defending my honesty in reporting and spending zero time trying to convince you that something was or was not boring. In my reply (quoted above) to devolver I WAS trying to convince him that the new system would not be as boring as he might have thought but that was not the subject of my response to YOU.

 

I am by no means reaching into bandit territory with my analysis of loot. Loot has been boring for a LONG time, even before 16 and Im sorry but the truth is this change makes loot even MORE boring.

 

Okay, Jax. It's going to be more boring for you.

 

Now Gazz just MAY get his hands on things and make it the most interesting thing in the world. He has not yet, so we cant talk about hypotheticals now can we? A gun can have 100 different modifications and variations found in loot but the bottom line is if it doesn't degrade then once you find it, it's a done deal.

 

There is nothing in your posting that is NOT hypothetical and yet you post quite a bit...

 

A survival game thrives on the need to always be better, get better. Perks are a perfect example of them doing it 100 percent right. Which is why for now I will assume the system of modifications, repairing and quality is unfinished and will be revisited in the future since it makes no sense to simplify it so much. With parts and qualities we had multiple statistics we could control from Range to fall off to spread. Now those attributes may be present on modifications which would be pretty good compensation for the removal of parts, but if they are all baked in to the base of the gun then it greatly diminishes customization on stats in that regard.

 

Well now that you aren't accusing me of posting things to simply try to put lipstick on a pig I'm happy to clarify that all of those qualities and stats absolutely are affected by mods. Of course there is a base stat for each baked into the base guns but they will all be able to be modified in different ways and even be activated by different events. So adding a mod that causes the club to do more damage when your hp reaches a certain point is possible and something the old gun parts could never do. Drinking something or wearing something could also affect those stats. So even beyond gun attachments you could have a cowboy hat that would give you a bonus to reload speed when using the Revolver whenever you're wearing it. So yes the mod attachments will be able to control everything from range to fall off, to spread and much much more.

 

Don't take my criticism to heart brother. I'm still TFP 4 Lyfe. I just have a concern. Hopefully your defensive reply is just a product of having to deal with so many jabronis recently.

 

It's not your criticism of the game that I took to heart, Jax. You oscillate on your excitement vs outrage over hypothetical changes so often (despite your proclaimed inability to post on said hypotheticals) that I am always nonplussed now by either your praise or your criticism.

 

You came at me, bro, regarding my integrity. I make mistakes (which I've owned up to and corrected twice on this thread alone) but I'm not dishonest. Yes, its the internet so I must be duplicitous right? Well, I can't help how anyone takes what I post but I also can respond to posts like yours and Benjiro that accuse me of being a koolaid drinking yes-man spin doctor and refute it so that reasonable folks can decide if they will trust what I post or not.

 

And I hold no grudge on this either. Bygones. I'll bug Gazz and see what I can find out about repair and degradation.

[Roland]

This is in the realm of hypotheticals as it is only the plan and plans can change:

 

Proposed Repair System

 

Field Repairs: When you repair an item out in the field using your backpack as the workstation it will place a penalizing "badmod" in a mod slot. Each time you repair, the badmod will gain greater penalties. These could affect durability and damage which would basically bring it in line with what we've known as guns degrade to lower tiers (less durability and less damage) but there could be other effects attached to this badmod that could cause other problems that wouldn't have been possible under the old system.

 

Workbench Repairs: When you repair an item at a workbench you will be able to do it without penalty and you will be able to remove any badmod that got attached to your gun during a field repair.

 

All of this is just a plan for now so unfortunately we may have to suffer through penalty-free repairing at first. Also they may make alterations or go in a different direction altogether when it comes time to implement so don't marry yourself to this plan.

 

I already know that someone wants to ask the question of what happens if all mod slots are full and the answer to that will be forthcoming when the system and decisions about immovability of mods has been completely firmed up and decided. The options I can see are:

 

1) The mod is destroyed and replaced by the badmod

2) An additional slot only used for badmod due to field repairs could be implemented

3) The mod is popped out into your inventory and the slot is blocked by the badmod but you don't lose your mod.

[Aldranon]

I'm a little confused.

 

What were some people expecting guns, that basically just shoot out bullets, going to do in A17?

Faster or slower bullets.

Bigger or smaller bullets.

More or less bullets to shoot.

Done.

 

That they do anything more, allows for a range a new tactics:

Purpose built, near Sci-fi weapons, that can be used for direct counters against certain bosses or special ability zombies/NPC's.

 

I dont see a down side with this, besides not playing the game now (which is probably the source of some peoples anger).

[meganoth]

This is in the realm of hypotheticals as it is only the plan and plans can change:

 

Proposed Repair System

 

Field Repairs: When you repair an item out in the field using your backpack as the workstation it will place a penalizing "badmod" in a mod slot. Each time you repair, the badmod will gain greater penalties. These could affect durability and damage which would basically bring it in line with what we've known as guns degrade to lower tiers (less durability and less damage) but there could be other effects attached to this badmod that could cause other problems that wouldn't have been possible under the old system.

 

Workbench Repairs: When you repair an item at a workbench you will be able to do it without penalty and you will be able to remove any badmod that got attached to your gun during a field repair.

 

All of this is just a plan for now so unfortunately we may have to suffer through penalty-free repairing at first. Also they may make alterations or go in a different direction altogether when it comes time to implement so don't marry yourself to this plan.

 

Interesting idea with the badmod.

I would still consider it basically penalty-free as soon as you have access to a workbench. Unless degradation happens at least 3 times faster than now.

 

Do I remember correctly that mods come in different qualities, i.e. laser sight MK1, laser sight MK2 ...? If yes, how many steps of quality will probably be available in A17?

[mr.devolver]

This is in the realm of hypotheticals as it is only the plan and plans can change:

 

Proposed Repair System

 

Field Repairs: When you repair an item out in the field using your backpack as the workstation it will place a penalizing "badmod" in a mod slot. Each time you repair, the badmod will gain greater penalties. These could affect durability and damage which would basically bring it in line with what we've known as guns degrade to lower tiers (less durability and less damage) but there could be other effects attached to this badmod that could cause other problems that wouldn't have been possible under the old system.

 

Workbench Repairs: When you repair an item at a workbench you will be able to do it without penalty and you will be able to remove any badmod that got attached to your gun during a field repair.

 

All of this is just a plan for now so unfortunately we may have to suffer through penalty-free repairing at first. Also they may make alterations or go in a different direction altogether when it comes time to implement so don't marry yourself to this plan.

 

I already know that someone wants to ask the question of what happens if all mod slots are full and the answer to that will be forthcoming when the system and decisions about immovability of mods has been completely firmed up and decided. The options I can see are:

 

1) The mod is destroyed and replaced by the badmod

2) An additional slot only used for badmod due to field repairs could be implemented

3) The mod is popped out into your inventory and the slot is blocked by the badmod but you don't lose your mod.

 

You said that we won't need a specific skill or workbench to modify our weapons, cool, but how does it go with this proposed repair system where you actually need workbench to repair your weapon without penalties? I'm not a weapon expert, but I imagine that some modifications to your weapon, especially in a post apocalyptic world would have to be done in not exactly precise fashion to begin with, so to speak. What I mean is that even by adding mods to your weapon, you would most likely have to get your hands dirty and in some cases you would have to improvise a lot and with the crude tools to do those modifications, especially without workbench or specific skill, wouldn't it greatly increase a chance of damaging the weapon somehow? And if so, if applying mod to your weapon could damage your weapon, shouldn't it be a factor in game too? Don't get me wrong, I am honestly glad it isn't the case right now, but it still makes me wornder, because it also works the other way around - if we had some repair penalty for repairing the weapon without workbench, shouldn't we also have a chance of damaging the weapon by applying mods without workbench and proper tools? And then if we wouldn't want that kind of thing to be a part of the game, would it really make sense for this kind of repair penalty to be a thing if any other kind of changes done to your weapon wouldn't really downgrade its quality?

[mr.devolver]

~~~

 

Sorry, I don't mean to be rude, but you're replying to something I wrote to another user, you're replying in ways that show me that you didn't really understand what I meant to say and while I do see that you're quite a writer (congrats on the 1k+ posts), right now I don't feel like going through all of my points again just to explain what I meant to say there, especially when it was actually someone else I was talking to, so I think there's no point in doing that. Thanks for understanding.

[mr.devolver]

Make an effort to gain wellness back, for which reason exactly? Some more max health/stamina, even less with the "health nut" perk, which I could outheal/outregen, never motivated me in the least, even at higher difficulties. Dying regularly and resetting your status was much more beneficial. Same with every one I've ever played with. Wellness was a good concept, but poorly implemented. I don't remember any information about death in any of the videos. Can you link?

 

I think this is all just about your playstyle, I can tell you that I was never really happy with losing wellness and I always tried hard to get it back and eventually get some permanent wellness boost, but "eventually" is a key word here, because I always found it more important to invest points into other skills first, especially early in the game, maybe it was because I mostly played solo and sometimes with my niece, but still mostly solo and the leveling just doesn't come so often for me there.

 

Admittedly I played mostly modded game as of late, but I also have invested many hours into standard base game, so I can see pretty well what kind of difference is there in the balance including but not limited to experience gain, the overall rate of getting more points in both types of games and when I really needed to level up faster, I usually did a lot of quests and then on my way back to the base, I always tried to hunt a deer or two so that I could cook, I was cooking like crazy and then I ate all of it just to regain that lost wellness from just one death, so for me or my playstyle death was punishing enough.

 

I know maybe I could go around it, make it easier somehow, but then again I played it my way and maybe it's also one thing to consider, because developers obviously should cover as many playstyles as possible. They can't make everyone happy for sure, but we all can't play the same way, otherwise it would be boring and it just wouldn't feel right for us.

 

As for the question about death being more of an issue in Alpha 17+, Joel talks about it

.

[meganoth]

Sorry, I don't mean to be rude, but you're replying to something I wrote to another user

 

Yes, as practically everyone is doing in a forum. Thanks for understanding the function of a forum.

[mr.devolver]

Yes, as practically everyone is doing in a forum. Thanks for understanding the function of a forum.

 

Everyone who feels like there's a point in that, that is...

[RestInPieces]

because developers obviously should cover as many playstyles as possible. They can't make everyone happy for sure, but we all can't play the same way, otherwise it would be boring and it just wouldn't feel right for us.

 

Btw Rick said that this was one of the mistakes they made. It is also general knowledge that doing that will lead to a half-baked design for everybody. What he said may mean a lot of things though so nevermind what he said.

 

What is painfully obvious to me is that trying to cover as many playstyles as possible whithin the game itself (instead of menu options), will lead to an abstract, bad game design. This is the first community I've been in, that so many people confuse player gameplay freedom with choosing their difficulty level while playing. A good example of that is the "safe space" debate. They can't accomodate both the playstyle of these players and those who want the survival experience.

 

I am against too many options for reasons that I don't want to get into right now, big discussion. But things like spoilage, consistent greater character death penalty (losing your backpack is too circumstantial), or harsher survival elements in general, should be available with options, if developers should really cover as many playstyles as possible.

 

 

As for the question about death being more of an issue in Alpha 17+, Joel talks about it

.

 

At first glance penalty seems like no big deal. Plus endurance perks alleviate it. Anyway, I'll reserve judgement for when I play it myself.

 

turds have been removed from the game

 

This is a sad day.

[JaxTeller718]

Here is what I said about repair and degradation of quality in my original post

 

 

 

Here is what I said in my answer to devolver in answer to his concern that all found guns in loot will basically be the same because until a mod could be found they would for all intents and purposes be exactly the same.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That's fine. I can't help what you feel is boring or how much of a "sky is falling" attitude you want to take about my report of the current status of a WIP feature.

 

 

 

Well, no duh. I never said you have to love it. In fact my reply to you in no way was trying to convince you that you should like the changes. It was pretty much all 100% objecting to you presenting my report as being insincere or fudged. Or do you not understand what the term "spin" means when you use it? Go back and read my reply and you'll see that I was defending my honesty in reporting and spending zero time trying to convince you that something was or was not boring. In my reply (quoted above) to devolver I WAS trying to convince him that the new system would not be as boring as he might have thought but that was not the subject of my response to YOU.

 

 

 

Okay, Jax. It's going to be more boring for you.

 

 

 

There is nothing in your posting that is NOT hypothetical and yet you post quite a bit...

 

 

 

Well now that you aren't accusing me of posting things to simply try to put lipstick on a pig I'm happy to clarify that all of those qualities and stats absolutely are affected by mods. Of course there is a base stat for each baked into the base guns but they will all be able to be modified in different ways and even be activated by different events. So adding a mod that causes the club to do more damage when your hp reaches a certain point is possible and something the old gun parts could never do. Drinking something or wearing something could also affect those stats. So even beyond gun attachments you could have a cowboy hat that would give you a bonus to reload speed when using the Revolver whenever you're wearing it. So yes the mod attachments will be able to control everything from range to fall off, to spread and much much more.

 

 

 

It's not your criticism of the game that I took to heart, Jax. You oscillate on your excitement vs outrage over hypothetical changes so often (despite your proclaimed inability to post on said hypotheticals) that I am always nonplussed now by either your praise or your criticism.

 

You came at me, bro, regarding my integrity. I make mistakes (which I've owned up to and corrected twice on this thread alone) but I'm not dishonest. Yes, its the internet so I must be duplicitous right? Well, I can't help how anyone takes what I post but I also can respond to posts like yours and Benjiro that accuse me of being a koolaid drinking yes-man spin doctor and refute it so that reasonable folks can decide if they will trust what I post or not.

 

And I hold no grudge on this either. Bygones. I'll bug Gazz and see what I can find out about repair and degradation.

 

We are definitely good Roland, I know you well enough on here to know you aren't the Kool Aid drinking kind which is why I respect you so much. My jab at you came from a place of me assuming that you didn't put as much stock in the ramifications of the repair system.

 

We all have our things that we feel are important. My assumption that you didn't care enough about repairs to think it's even an issue was obviously wrong but I know you are not a shill. You're one of the most fair and balanced moderators of ANY EA forum I have ever been a part of. Ive told you this in private as well.

 

Thank you for inquiring about the system. My apologies to you if I came off as insulting, when I was actually trying to be condescending

[mr.devolver]

Btw Rick said that this was one of the mistakes they made. It is also general knowledge that doing that will lead to a half-baked design for everybody. What he said may mean a lot of things though so nevermind what he said.

 

What is painfully obvious to me is that trying to cover as many playstyles as possible whithin the game itself (instead of menu options), will lead to an abstract, bad game design. This is the first community I've been in, that so many people confuse player gameplay freedom with choosing their difficulty level while playing. A good example of that is the "safe space" debate. They can't accomodate both the playstyle of these players and those who want the survival experience.

 

I am against too many options for reasons that I don't want to get into right now, big discussion. But things like spoilage, consistent greater character death penalty (losing your backpack is too circumstantial), or harsher survival elements in general, should be available with options, if developers should really cover as many playstyles as possible.

 

 

 

 

At first glance penalty seems like no big deal. Plus endurance perks alleviate it. Anyway, I'll reserve judgement for when I play it myself.

 

 

 

This is a sad day.

 

Gameplay freedom isn't necessarily the same as playstyle freedom. Gameplay is a backbone of what the developers want their game to be and playstyle freedom is the way you want to play the game (within possibilities of the gameplay features), sure it's connected to game difficulty, but game difficulty is just something that's supposed to affect the challenge you experience, but you should still be able to play the way you want to play. Difficulty is the level of challenge that you must go through within the possibilities of the gameplay to beat the game, it's the way the game treats you as a player, not the way you play the game. Of course these two things must be in balance, you can't use a rocket launcher on day one if the game difficulty doesn't let you find one on day one, but if you like to play with rocket launcher, because it's a part of your own playstyle, you should definitely be allowed to find one and use it eventually and set your own difficulty to define how hard it will be to find it.

[Vedui]

<snip>

 

I agree pretty much with all these, so I won't do a blow by blow. It was a well balanced take of it, and I've said something similar many times and either get attacked by people saying I'm dumb coz ALL the kickstarter goals have been met, or I'm an idiot coz obviously the game was abandoned, will never be finished, and we should bring the torches and pitchforks!

 

Overall, the only main issue I have are the timelines to get things done, and that's not even part of kickstarter... or steam EA. But that's entirely on me, as I am too excited to play new versions and really want to see it done. And I just play other games, while I play vanilla, play mods, and enjoy it while knowing at some point the next version will come out and I'll be happy to play that one too!

 

People get very hung up on EA, alpha, beta versions and what have you. I've played AAA games that were in worse shapes overall (maybe look polished, but plays like crap), and they were not being fixed, maybe some balancing patches but definitely not years of additional development to fix. And those were "released" games. So to me it still comes down to, was the premise it was sold on, the cost of it, in line with the value that it has delivered.

 

To me, it's far exceeded the value, and the premise it was sold on, and it's still being worked on.

 

But then again, I still play Minecraft on and off, and it's 8 years since that one was alpha when I started, and it seems to just continue on slowly with new content, features, expanded. Yet while there might have been an "official" release date for version 1.0, I don't see that impacting, it's the continued development and expansion of the game that's kept it alive, kept it being loved.

[mrboogie]

Well spoken Vedui!!

 

"To me, it's far exceeded the value, and the premise it was sold on, and it's still being worked on."

 

Best game I have ever played. 6000+ hours and counting...