Underground Debate #589

[Llamas]

I would have said just about any type of pole fort was the biggest exploit. You're hard pressed to even pretent you're challanged.

 

Pile everything you got in one chessy fort and put a garden at the top for added insult.

 

Just have to sweat out that one 3000 jar of murky water run and your done till day 1000.

 

Its rough above ground... yup.

 

It seems like underground bunkers, heat bases, and pole bases (assuming the physics work) are all examples of smart game play, not exploits. Ideally, there should be other factors that act as challenges and incentives to keep things interesting. For instance, a heat base might keep zombies away from your main base, if you still have to fight your way through accumulated zombies to use it, that would be a good trade off. If zombies can dig, how will that change the dynamic of underground bases? Pole bases...I think this is where things like bandits will be a good thing. It's not an uncommon theme in apocalyptic fiction for the biggest threat to be from other humans.

[Gnomaana]

It seems like underground bunkers, heat bases, and pole bases (assuming the physics work) are all examples of smart game play, not exploits.

 

How smart is "dig a hole"? But, I don't really call them an exploit. I see them as deficiencies in the current game that I hope TFP finds ways to correct.

[KingSlayerGM]

Log out for 20 minutes.

 

Edit: Im assuming you mean using a server

 

Doesn't work if you are temporarily alone in the server

[Armstrrong]

It seems like underground bunkers, heat bases, and pole bases (assuming the physics work) are all examples of smart game play, not exploits. Ideally, there should be other factors that act as challenges and incentives to keep things interesting. For instance, a heat base might keep zombies away from your main base, if you still have to fight your way through accumulated zombies to use it, that would be a good trade off. If zombies can dig, how will that change the dynamic of underground bases? Pole bases...I think this is where things like bandits will be a good thing. It's not an uncommon theme in apocalyptic fiction for the biggest threat to be from other humans.

 

Bandits will destroy any type of base. All will be Doooooomed!.

[Sakurambo]

one little question to all that are against underground threats

why should we have bedrock at -57 in a SP\Coop game? with a bedrock cut in half or even 3\4 we could have a huge improve in performance

with non digging z's bedrock could be even at -10

that stop also the problem of people drawning to recover supply drops in lake

two birds with one stone

[Llamas]

How smart is "dig a hole"? But, I don't really call them an exploit. I see them as deficiencies in the current game that I hope TFP finds ways to correct.

 

My point is that I don't view them as deficiencies. People should be able to find ways, with the appropriate amount of effort, to create secure bases. Call it phase 1 of survival game play (or phase 2, if phase 1 is "don't die"). I think that creating reasons for players to leave their base would add the most value to the game because it also affects end-game play.

[Zadwanaa]

Aaaaaaaaaah! Enough is enough! Stop arguing about "building underground is cheating", "building too high is cheating", "having too many defenses is cheating", "building a big secure base is cheating".... Pages and pages of posts telling other people how they should play.

 

I just don't get it, play how you want and let others plays theirs. Why push your way as "the" way, when you can play ALL ways?

 

OK, so am I supposed to just stand in the middle of a field in my birthday suit and fight them with my bare hands? Will you be happy then?

 

The whole point is that you can play however YOU want. Stop trying to push YOUR ideas of how YOU think other people should play. You see, that's the beauty of this game, you can play it how you want. So you can go and do that, whatever it is that you deem to be the "right" way to play and I'll go and have a blast building my big "cheat" compound base.

 

Sorry, thats exploiting the game mechanics

[SittingDuck]

using weapons is cheating. the Zombies also use only bare knuckles

[Subquake]

Aaaaaaaaaah! Enough is enough! Stop arguing about "building underground is cheating", "building too high is cheating", "having too many defenses is cheating", "building a big secure base is cheating".... Pages and pages of posts telling other people how they should play.

 

I just don't get it, play how you want and let others plays theirs. Why push your way as "the" way, when you can play ALL ways?

 

OK, so am I supposed to just stand in the middle of a field in my birthday suit and fight them with my bare hands? Will you be happy then?

 

The whole point is that you can play however YOU want. Stop trying to push YOUR ideas of how YOU think other people should play. You see, that's the beauty of this game, you can play it how you want. So you can go and do that, whatever it is that you deem to be the "right" way to play and I'll go and have a blast building my big "cheat" compound base.

 

I completely agree with you. The game should be all about choices of gameplay to be left for the player, hence SANDBOX game. If someone doesn't want to fight zombies on hoard night - that's their choice. I do hate when people are trying to shove on my throat how should I play a sandbox game as well, very annoying.

 

And I don't want to sound rude, but when Madmole mentioned, that looting/smashing zombie corpses after hoard nights is boring was quite irritating, because that's a part, that I really love in the game and I do hope, that I will be able to mod it back in with A17.

 

I'm fine with whatever balancing The Fun Pimps will bring with the game as long as those changes can be modded and altered to suit other people play styles.

[Armstrrong]

using weapons is cheating. the Zombies also use only bare knuckles

Yeah, thats exploiting zombies mechanics. Poor zombies.

[PurgatoryWolf]

Aaaaaaaaaah! Enough is enough! Stop arguing about "building underground is cheating", "building too high is cheating", "having too many defenses is cheating", "building a big secure base is cheating".... Pages and pages of posts telling other people how they should play.

 

I just don't get it, play how you want and let others plays theirs. Why push your way as "the" way, when you can play ALL ways?

 

OK, so am I supposed to just stand in the middle of a field in my birthday suit and fight them with my bare hands? Will you be happy then?

 

The whole point is that you can play however YOU want. Stop trying to push YOUR ideas of how YOU think other people should play. You see, that's the beauty of this game, you can play it how you want. So you can go and do that, whatever it is that you deem to be the "right" way to play and I'll go and have a blast building my big "cheat" compound base.

 

I agree!

 

It's only cheating if what you build defies game mechanics - like the floating bases using drawbridges or plate blocks. Underground bases, bases on stilts, bases in the water, and even huge fortresses with traps and guns every block, are all legit Strategies.

 

I think the correct way to describe them is not "cheating" but maybe "cheap". Sure, by totally avoiding all the zombies as best you can, you make the game easier, but you also short yourself on part of the fun and panic of defense.

[Subquake]

Yeah, thats exploiting zombies mechanics.

And would you be exploiting zombies when hiding in your bunker and waiting out a zombie apocalypse if that would be a thing in real life? If I had to choose between going out and being eaten alive by a hoard of hungry mutated zombified humans or staying alive inside, hunkering down till the madness clears up a bit, I would do the later. If you want to do the first thing and "fight" zombies, by all means, be my guest, but don't push this belief to others, it's rude.

 

TFP have their own vision of what they want the game to look like and let them do their thing and if you don't like something, go play mods for the game or make your own mod, it's not that hard with 7 days to die, all you really need is Notepad.

[PurgatoryWolf]

Sorry, thats exploiting the game mechanics

 

How is that exploiting game mechanics to build on stilts or underground? But, as i mentioned above, the floating bases, are definitely an exploit. I've seen people use drawbridges to make their bases float over pits, and I've seen people using those partial blocks ot make their bases float as well.

 

(ie metal sheet, 1/8 blocks, 1/4 blocks, ect.)

[meganoth]

@meganoth

Having an underground POI with a special ceiling for SI could be a detriment or bonus to gameplay, depending on people's perspective. I would call it a bonus because I would take that POI over and NEVER worry about diggers. Others would complain that I am exploiting a game mechanic.

 

Who said anything about zombies not able to dig through such a block? All such a block does is stop SI, as long as that block is still there.

 

Makes it possible for the world generator to place many many dungeons all over the map without thinking about whats above.

[PurgatoryWolf]

Yeah, thats exploiting zombies mechanics.

 

I don't see how, zombies most certainly do "dig". When my husband and I had an underground bunker, I remember hearing a collapse, and when we went to check, there was a Lumberjack in a room, and above him, a hole he had dug down 70 blocks to get to us.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

Who said anything about zombies not able to dig through such a block? All such a block does is stop SI, as long as that block is still there.

 

Makes it possible for the world generator to place many many dungeons all over the map without thinking about whats above.

 

SI?

 

Taking over a poi should never be considered an exploit, unless it's a trader - because of their barrier.

[Sakurambo]

there would be no performance gain, because chunks (or whatever its called) arent loaded i guess. im against it to be less than -57

 

even without performance gain (i'm really not sure about this btw) why bedrock should be at -57? -10 or -20 is enough to be safe from z's and build a base

-57 is only a waste of space

[Sakurambo]

How is that exploiting game mechanics to build on stilts or underground?

 

whit the current AI is an exploit

with stilt base you can stay in the middle of your base and never be touched by a zombie because they keep running in circles below you

same with underground base

with the new AI (if digging zombies are implemented) both bases aren't exploiting game mechanics anymore

[Llamas]

Dig down 3 blocks is an "appropriate amount of effort"?

 

I was under the impression that in A17 zombies can dig, and their pathing is not limited to two dimensions. So, digging down is essentially subtractive wall building. If they can follow you down a hole, it's no different than following you into a base on the surface.

[Dauthiatull]

I think digging zombies wont work if you are deep enough do to the limits of pathing

 

I still think my idea of underground poi's is a great idea. it adds more interesting gameplay

a digging hoard, while a threat, will he heard before it reaches you, but a poi will remain hidden and unknown until you crack it open then BAM a hoard in yer face.

 

trapped underground, surrounded by feral zombies. even better if they break your light sources.

no escape.

[Dauthiatull]

also on the topic of diggers

 

this can be mitigated due to the fact that zombies can only spawn a short distance from the player

put the base at bedrock directly under a mountain and you wont have to worry about pathing because the nearest spawnable area will be far out of range

 

unless they start spawning inside the tunnels which would enrage most players because "zombies spawning inside secured areas behind vault doors"

[wildaxeman1]

Aaaaaaaaaah! Enough is enough! Stop arguing about "building underground is cheating", "building too high is cheating", "having too many defenses is cheating", "building a big secure base is cheating".... Pages and pages of posts telling other people how they should play.

 

I just don't get it, play how you want and let others plays theirs. Why push your way as "the" way, when you can play ALL ways?

 

OK, so am I supposed to just stand in the middle of a field in my birthday suit and fight them with my bare hands? Will you be happy then?

 

The whole point is that you can play however YOU want. Stop trying to push YOUR ideas of how YOU think other people should play. You see, that's the beauty of this game, you can play it how you want. So you can go and do that, whatever it is that you deem to be the "right" way to play and I'll go and have a blast building my big "cheat" compound base.

 

exatly!! let us play as we want. there is no wrong way to survive.

[Chancer0076]

Sorry, thats exploiting the game mechanics

 

lol IKR!?

[DaVegaNL]

Really? Another discussion on underground threaths? Did we not have this discussion already 3 times or something during the past 1.25 years, during the development of a17? What's next.. children zombies?

[Chancer0076]

I agree!

 

It's only cheating if what you build defies game mechanics - like the floating bases using drawbridges or plate blocks. Underground bases, bases on stilts, bases in the water, and even huge fortresses with traps and guns every block, are all legit Strategies.

 

I think the correct way to describe them is not "cheating" but maybe "cheap". Sure, by totally avoiding all the zombies as best you can, you make the game easier, but you also short yourself on part of the fun and panic of defense.

 

Yup, I agree with you. There are many ways to play this game cheap...

 

One game me and my friend used creative mode and built a fortress and surrounded it with turrets. Totally impenetrable! We did it because it was fun. Then, obviously, once it was finished it started to get a bit dull so we moved location and built another base only using vanilla game options. Guess what? That was fun too too I've built a huge underground base because I wanted to try it but, as someone else mentioned, I like the sun and the lighting effects from it so I didn't stay there long. Just did it to do it.

 

And that is my point, there are many ways to play and you can do them all if you want to.

 

As a side note, I really enjoy the horde nights, that is when the game can actually get tough (although if you've prepared well, even that can be kind of easy). I'm all for increasing difficulty but it should be the players choice as to HOW difficult it should be and WHEN they want to play tough. Almost every game has a difficulty setting for this reason! Creative mode is a blast. The building in this game is one of the things that set it apart from the crowd.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

How is that exploiting game mechanics to build on stilts or underground? But, as i mentioned above, the floating bases, are definitely an exploit. I've seen people use drawbridges to make their bases float over pits, and I've seen people using those partial blocks ot make their bases float as well.

 

(ie metal sheet, 1/8 blocks, 1/4 blocks, ect.)

 

I think he was being sarcastic...

[naive1000]

Aaaaaaaaaah! Enough is enough! Stop arguing about "building underground is cheating", "building too high is cheating", "having too many defenses is cheating", "building a big secure base is cheating".... Pages and pages of posts telling other people how they should play.

 

I just don't get it, play how you want and let others plays theirs. Why push your way as "the" way, when you can play ALL ways?

 

OK, so am I supposed to just stand in the middle of a field in my birthday suit and fight them with my bare hands? Will you be happy then?

 

The whole point is that you can play however YOU want. Stop trying to push YOUR ideas of how YOU think other people should play. You see, that's the beauty of this game, you can play it how you want. So you can go and do that, whatever it is that you deem to be the "right" way to play and I'll go and have a blast building my big "cheat" compound base.

 

I agree. Stop complaining. Plus I like to build underground. It's the only place you can create large structures with complex internals and not have to worry about it being destroyed as you're making it. Building is quite a bit of the fun. I never spend the 7th day in the places I build underground, that's what I have a killing ground for. While fighting zombies is fun, later in the game when I have time and materials the fun is see what complex things I can make and what I can stretch my imagination to create. I'm still planing a skyscraper underground sometime with all the furniture, lighting, and so on I think one from base to ground would be fun and complex and worth the time. Not so sure now with no place being safe but maybe I can make a killing ground around it (might be fun with pits and traps and all). I just don't understand why people want to stop other people having fun in the way they want to.