Xeen Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 That's not the point at all. People want some sense of accomplishment. I want to build, defend and maintain my bunker if I decide to build it underground. What you proposed is nothing more than what we have now. You couldn't be more wrong about it being nothing more than we have now, right now people can build a base down at bedrock and completely avoid zombies all together which ruins the gaming experience period there are no if's and's or buts about it. If there is a block level floor set for building bunkers you can still do everything you want to do and accomplish everything you want to but you just wouldn't be able to avoid zombies because they could find you. You wrote this response without thinking, rebelling against the idea that underground bunkers should be limited in some way, you can say I'm a terrible person for suggesting such a thing all you want but it doesn't change the facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UbiquitousMoose Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 I'm all for challenges underground, but... isn't the point of bunkers and subterranean bases to provide increased protection for the occupants? Making them just as vulnerable as surface dwellings seems a little off. Perhaps we just need a reason to draw the troglodytes to the surface, maybe a greater dependence on scavenging to keep stuff working in the bunker. Just a random thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneArmedBandit Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 You couldn't be more wrong about it being nothing more than we have now, right now people can build a base down at bedrock and completely avoid zombies all together which ruins the gaming experience period there are no if's and's or buts about it. If there is a block level floor set for building bunkers you can still do everything you want to do and accomplish everything you want to but you just wouldn't be able to avoid zombies because they could find you. You wrote this response without thinking, rebelling against the idea that underground bunkers should be limited in some way, you can say I'm a terrible person for suggesting such a thing all you want but it doesn't change the facts. 1. you are a terrible person to suggest such a thing, why shouldn't I be allowed to build my base underground while still fighting the Z's?? 2. your suggestion doesn't work *at all* (talking A16 here, no idea what AI-changes will come in A17) in terms of stopping players, that wanna hide from Z's underground to do so if they really want to. no idea where exactly you want to draw your magical "no building beyond this point"-line, but to avoid zombies it is enough to shovel 3 blocks (!) down, 2 to stand and one to block the entrance. I can also build a whole base no more than 5 blocks underground if I wanted to or had to. 3. another problem: when you go down for mining (that would be still allowed, right?) you would have no means of putting some supports/ladders etc. breaking mining completely and thus making the underground absolutely dead. not a smart move imho conclusion: no...it really wasn't that easy .....but nice try though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaxTeller718 Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 Everyone here championing for NO threat at all in a survival game definitely do not have the best interests of the integrity of this game in their hearts. Having spoken to the dev of Mist I want to echo some of his sentiments. No GOOD game developer, who is looking to make a challenging survival game, would allow any loophole that allows you to bypass an entire game mechanic. I can assure you the reason why there is no underground threat presently is because they just have not gotten to it yet. Much like this patch is all about the AI, pathing and getting hordes to destroy your defenses above ground, the time will come for the underground/water exploits to be tackled. Let's say you were spending your years and money to come up with the best survival game out there, and 80 percent of your work in making it a challenge can be circumvented by just digging down. Do you honestly think that is ok, from a design standpoint, to allow into your final product? How would you feel if you presented your passion project and told everyone how hard you worked to make it a challenge, and some guy in the back laughed and said "no it's not i just dig down". Do you know how ludicrous that sounds? And in one sentence you just tossed aside any semblance of difficulty, any work you put into coming up with challenging AI. Any balancing you have meticulously crafted. All because "dig down". Above ground has numerous challenges ahead. Logically so should below ground. A lot of people are confusing unfinished with intended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dauthiatull Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 If they do what you want then they are making someone else mod the game so THEY can enjoy it. Who should the mods cater to? You couldn't be more wrong about it being nothing more than we have now, right now people can build a base down at bedrock and completely avoid zombies all together which ruins the gaming experience period there are no if's and's or buts about it. If there is a block level floor set for building bunkers you can still do everything you want to do and accomplish everything you want to but you just wouldn't be able to avoid zombies because they could find you. You wrote this response without thinking, rebelling against the idea that underground bunkers should be limited in some way, you can say I'm a terrible person for suggesting such a thing all you want but it doesn't change the facts. Ruins the game for who? Clearly not for those who do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaxTeller718 Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 Ruins the game for who? Clearly not for those who do it. Unless a developer comes in here and says "We support the idea that you can 100 percent avoid the challenges we have put in front of you by just going underground in our base vanilla game" then it is ruining the integrity of the game they are trying to make. And if that IS said i for one will be extremely disappointed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PurgatoryWolf Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 No, i'm pretty sure even if you have 0 heat, on the bloodmoon zombies will know you are there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingSlayerGM Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 No, i'm pretty sure even if you have 0 heat, on the bloodmoon zombies will know you are there. I know, I was suggesting to change that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenLeeKildenbattle Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 Having a large open area to the sky won't help with dispersing toxic gas (which is heavier than air) since you would be in what is still considered a confined space by OSHA definitions and need a forced gas removal system. If you do strip mine that big of an area the O2 depletion would be a no never mind type of deal anyways, since you would easily be able to move in and out of the affected area. . A confined space only has one way in and out according to MSHA, which is much stricter than OSHA. OSHA only comes around after an accident, MSHA comes around several times a year. So as long as our tunnel had more than one exit it would not be defined as a confined space and not need forced air to meet MSHA regulations. , This is in jest Tin so please don't ban me. Although even with more than one exit, any heavier gases would still hang around and be dangerous, but maybe we could craft air monitors which would alert us to dangerous gas levels or we introduce parakeets. I like parakeets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meganoth Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 @ The Gronk To edit xml files is not how an usual player roll. We want to check the settings and turn unliked things simply off. That's all. The important thing though is that it is very hard for mods and impossible for options to add zombies as underground dangers. Unless TFP implements them first. And then, if they are in the game, making an option or mod to turn them off should be quite simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tin Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 A confined space only has one way in and out according to MSHA, which is much stricter than OSHA. OSHA only comes around after an accident, MSHA comes around several times a year. So as long as our tunnel had more than one exit it would not be defined as a confined space and not need forced air to meet MSHA regulations. , This is in jest Tin so please don't ban me. Although even with more than one exit, any heavier gases would still hang around and be dangerous, but maybe we could craft air monitors which would alert us to dangerous gas levels or we introduce parakeets. I like parakeets. Oh that's it! you are soooo banned! Crap! I don't have a ban hammer so lets just pretend! xD Yeah, you're right on the names, ty for the correction. Oh! *taking notes* have birds die when gas is released.. hehe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamida Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 The problem is more that a lot of people don't go underground not because they don't want to do so, they're not "ground dwellers". They don't go underground because there's no interest in doing so. No threats, nothing to be found besides resources that can also be found without digging. Yet, the world does go way deeper than the surface, so it makes sense that they'd want TFP to add *something* to it to make it both challenging and rewarding, to put it in line with the rest of the game. The only thing I wonder about that is do they really want to go underground. Is that the reason they don't build underground. If the game came out tomorrow and there was a major threat to build underground would they do it or would they still build their base on the surface. It only an opinion but I think that even with a threat down there a lot, if not most, players who build those really nice looking bases on the surface will continue to build nice looking bases on the surface. Threats, above or below ground need some way to have a chance to be counter acted on. Other wise zombies will be able to kill you 100% and then it is not a survival game. Everything needs to be thunk and rethunk about Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamida Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 Many people have asked for and are receiving underground threats, so that underground is no longer a safe and boring zone. Some people build underground bunkers which are completely safe, thus exploiting current game mechanics. However, the largest base-building exploit remains untouched and safe. I am referring to secondary bases for "heat" related activities, which exist solely to cheese screamer hordes. Secondary "heat" bases keep my main base completely safe from screamer hordes and removes their threat. I feel like this should be addressed. I think any craftable item that raises the heat map should raise it to max instantly if there is no sleeping bag spawn protection. The screamer hordes called by those items should be gps'd onto the offending forge/campfire/etc. Give an incentive to keep your crafting stations in your main base and defend them as needed or else be conservative with their use. I have read over and over about eliminating "safe spaces". If we are gonna do that, let's do it thoroughly. Here's a bad idea. How about you can only build in your Land Claim Block area. And you can't make more LCB's. That way there is no second base to run to on horde nights. Unless you have an allie, then you could use his lcb to make your horde night base. Good reason to play coop. Humour mode deactivated. (In case anyone thought I was serious) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnomaana Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 Since we are trying to nerf bunker dwellers can we also add sunburn and skin cancer to those who stay above ground? What about lightning killing people above ground, or fire ants, etc.. Of course I am being facetious, but I think if people want to live at bedrock, so be it. If you don't like it don't do it. This. Many people have asked for and are receiving underground threats, so that underground is no longer a safe and boring zone. Some people build underground bunkers which are completely safe, thus exploiting current game mechanics. However, the largest base-building exploit remains untouched and safe. I am referring to secondary bases for "heat" related activities, which exist solely to cheese screamer hordes. Secondary "heat" bases keep my main base completely safe from screamer hordes and removes their threat. I feel like this should be addressed. I think any craftable item that raises the heat map should raise it to max instantly if there is no sleeping bag spawn protection. The screamer hordes called by those items should be gps'd onto the offending forge/campfire/etc. Give an incentive to keep your crafting stations in your main base and defend them as needed or else be conservative with their use. I have read over and over about eliminating "safe spaces". If we are gonna do that, let's do it thoroughly. Not sure if you think you found a "gotcha" for the people asking for underground threats or not. That is the way your post reads since instead of just stating what you want changed you constantly compare it to a completely different issue. Either way, this is a good idea. Some penalty for "heat" bases would be a good idea. I'm not sure how you decided this was the largest base building exploit though. Did you go through every game played and count or something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnowDog1942 Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 What if you are playing MP? Log out for 20 minutes. Edit: Im assuming you mean using a server Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meganoth Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 not sure if unity can do this but what about dynamic poi generation you are digging a tunnel, you hit an ore node and that triggers the generation the game then chooses a volume of rock or dirt adjacent to the ore vein but not connected to an air block and replaces that volume with a randomly selected prefab underground poi like a crypt or bunker full of zombies might not do much in terms of an underground hide out but it sure would make mining ore more intresting Great idea. If such a POI is spawned it could have a ceiling of special blocks that are like bedrock for SI calculation. Not that I would mind having buildings on the surface collapse, but it would soothe the mind of "preservationists" If the SI-blocks work, the POIs could be even instantiated at world generation, The only thing I wonder about that is do they really want to go underground. Is that the reason they don't build underground. If the game came out tomorrow and there was a major threat to build underground would they do it or would they still build their base on the surface. It only an opinion but I think that even with a threat down there a lot, if not most, players who build those really nice looking bases on the surface will continue to build nice looking bases on the surface. Threats, above or below ground need some way to have a chance to be counter acted on. Other wise zombies will be able to kill you 100% and then it is not a survival game. Everything needs to be thunk and rethunk about Another good point. The underground is used for building bases AND mining. I personally don't build much underground but do mining from time to time. Mining a vein has a great feeling of digging in a 3D labyrinth, but digging tunnels or finding the veins gets boring very fast. In my MP games I leave that task completely to the others, in my SP games I do it myself but with the enthusiasm of someone knowning he is just grinding. I might try out an underground (sub)base at least once, but it depends on a lot of factors whether I would do it more than once. But I think I would view mining as an adventure again. And as soon as I mine more I would have a reason for building an underground (sub)base as well !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TylerDB Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 The simple fact is that you will likely never see zeds attacking underground bases. The dev has already said that the pathing is very short ranged. Unless they have them spawn inside solid rock or right in your base, I really don’t see it happening. And if they do everyone will complain about the fps when the server tanks trying to calculate the structure integrity of the massive holes the zeds are making trying to get to you They need worms that tunnel to you and lead zs to your bunker 😁 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaosterone Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 @meganoth Having an underground POI with a special ceiling for SI could be a detriment or bonus to gameplay, depending on people's perspective. I would call it a bonus because I would take that POI over and NEVER worry about diggers. Others would complain that I am exploiting a game mechanic. Two solutions for underground threats that could work would be radiation of the rocks or earthquakes. And these would likely be a programming nightmare. Can't wait to see what TFP come up with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rachnar Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 You don't need a block that acts like bedrock, just create an empty block with no colision but that can still support blocks above it, and fill underground POIs with it, that way you maintain normal SI for above ground. Maybe it's obvious and already thought of or really stupid in a way i didn't think about, but seems like a good solution to me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dexi21 Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 Look like here are a bunch of chicks who are afraid of a few zombie and argue about underground. This is my conclusion from last few pages. GG FP keep the great work and don't listen to this crap of undeground ♥♥♥♥. Sorry for my language. And stop bash in the heads of FP for nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aldranon Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 Not sure if you think you found a "gotcha" for the people asking for underground threats or not. That is the way your post reads since instead of just stating what you want changed you constantly compare it to a completely different issue. Either way, this is a good idea. Some penalty for "heat" bases would be a good idea. I'm not sure how you decided this was the largest base building exploit though. Did you go through every game played and count or something? I would have said just about any type of pole fort was the biggest exploit. You're hard pressed to even pretent you're challanged. Pile everything you got in one chessy fort and put a garden at the top for added insult. Just have to sweat out that one 3000 jar of murky water run and your done till day 1000. Its rough above ground... yup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnomaana Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 I would have said just about any type of pole fort was the biggest exploit. You're hard pressed to even pretent you're challanged. Pile everything you got in one chessy fort and put a garden at the top for added insult. Just have to sweat out that one 3000 jar of murky water run and your done till day 1000. Its rough above ground... yup. Nevermind. Reread and I understand your post now. Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aldranon Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 Nevermind. Reread and I understand your post now. Lol I was supporting your statment and said what i felt was the big exploit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnomaana Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 I was supporting your statment and said what i felt was the big exploit. Yeah, I had an old timer moment or something. Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aldranon Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 Yeah, I had an old timer moment or something. Lol It might have been my fault. I'm using my wife's phone with the micro keys. I'm sure i didnt say things like i should have but my thoughts should have melted the satanic device 30 minutes ago. 😊 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.