Alpha 17 and PVP mode

[Hollowprime]

How to fix pvp in a few relatively simple steps:

1]Do not mix high and low level player game stages. Fighting cops being level 1 is annoying and downright impossible

2]Dramatically increase minimum player vs block protection from landclaim blocks. Also make it so that if a player fails to destroy a certain block it will heal over time. Disable landclaim decay altogether.

3]Join low level players on low level player spawns away from high level players.

4]Add engines earlier in the game. Make cement a higher perk and electrity perks lower level. Having electricity early game means a well protected base.

5]Make dying less punishing. Either disable dropping items altogether or allow only certain items to be droppable (materials and blocks over clothes and weapons).

6]Make player killers having bounty on their heads. Force faction and bounty hunter creations.

[bloom_meister]

Not always. In PvP my main base is a hidden bunker. In PvE it is a giant castle.

 

In pvp you really go for one of 2 styles, hide underground or go massive, nothing in between works too well, and when i say massive i mean 50x50, moat to bedrock and tower to skybox with one of more drawbridges to get across. of course moats to bedrock and towers to skybox is an enormous amount of work so tends to be only teams that can afford (and protect) that investment.

 

If you hide underground then if youre smart if very hard to be found although there are many things (that I wont mention here) that can give you away, claim protection being an obvious one (if you use them, and thats got its own risk v reward curve)

[Hollowprime]

In pvp you really go for one of 2 styles, hide underground or go massive, nothing in between works too well, and when i say massive i mean 50x50, moat to bedrock and tower to skybox with one of more drawbridges to get across. of course moats to bedrock and towers to skybox is an enormous amount of work so tends to be only teams that can afford (and protect) that investment.

 

If you hide underground then if youre smart if very hard to be found although there are many things (that I wont mention here) that can give you away, claim protection being an obvious one (if you use them, and thats got its own risk v reward curve)

 

In serious pvp servers you always go for bunker first because there are gun players roaming the place trying to kill newbies for fun. You turn that bunker into skyscraper very later in the game. And making it big is a huge mistake I see a lot of players do. Instead people should focus on making a labyrinth of traps and preferably turrets. But a patient enemy is always your worse fear,because no matter how well you build your base and protect it with fresh landclaim blocks,they will always find a way into your base with but a pickaxe. Your only salvation is teleport protected servers in my humble opinion.

[eidobunny]

Not always. In PvP my main base is a hidden bunker. In PvE it is a giant castle.

 

Well early game yes, but also building a big castle in PvP and trying to playerproof it is a really fun and interesting challenge

[skullpoker]

How to fix pvp in a few relatively simple steps:

1]Do not mix high and low level player game stages. Fighting cops being level 1 is annoying and downright impossible

2]Dramatically increase minimum player vs block protection from landclaim blocks. Also make it so that if a player fails to destroy a certain block it will heal over time. Disable landclaim decay altogether.

3]Join low level players on low level player spawns away from high level players.

4]Add engines earlier in the game. Make cement a higher perk and electrity perks lower level. Having electricity early game means a well protected base.

5]Make dying less punishing. Either disable dropping items altogether or allow only certain items to be droppable (materials and blocks over clothes and weapons).

6]Make player killers having bounty on their heads. Force faction and bounty hunter creations.

 

With the skill system and RNG loot, this will never be a PvP game. The best option for the devs would be to make every player-placed block essentially an LCB with indestructibility and remove damage to other players entirely, including from player-placed traps and explosives. Destroying the balance of the game to accommodate CoD players is not a great idea.

 

Removal is the best option for PvP

[Hollowprime]

Lol,by removal you mean disable pvp altogether? I wouldn't mind that to be honest but a lot of people like it.

[skullpoker]

the pvp player base is less than 1% of our customer base. Maybe its 40% of the vocal minority community, but its literally nothing, all our players are friends playing coop with friends or single player on private servers.

 

Again, it's not worth destroying what the game is to make 1% of the loudest whiners happy. Many games do that, and many players hate those Dev's for it.

[Viktoriusiii]

Again, it's not worth destroying what the game is to make 1% of the loudest whiners happy. Many games do that, and many players hate those Dev's for it.

 

nobody is asking for that.

a lot of the things dont effect soloplay or would enhance that as well.

 

 

PS: the 1% figure is wrong and depending on time of the last release is closer to 10% maybe more.

[Sakurambo]

Where are the numbers?

 

https://7daystodie.com/forums/showthread.php?77184-How-Do-You-Play-7-Days-The-Most

maybe he was talking about this

[RestInPieces]

Also found another thread I made back in 2013, still relevant and has some pvp sections towards the end as well as some dedicated pvp modes

https://7daystodie.com/forums/showthread.php?82-A-collection-of-features-for-a-better-post-apocalyptic-zombie-survival-simulation

[TheProphet]

Nefer when did you start playing? Back in A12 and earlier the sound radii was huge. You could hear a forge forging metal from 2,000m, an auger from 3,000 meters, someone chopping a tree from 1,000m. It was actually REALLY fun. They nerfed it in A13 and I've been bitching ever since.

 

The sound was incredibly ♥♥♥♥ed up back then. I remember I had a bunker in bedrock level and the Y axis was infinite so people would hear me or I could hear people while being underground covered by km's of stones.

 

I think now it's better, or last time I played anyway, I havent played A16 that much.

 

A17 will be better for PVP because of the new map system: Much bigger maps AND no need to have lag when running at high speeds (think vehicles), so the fights should be way smoother.

 

Ive heard some guy saying that they dumbed down how often snipers appear. I hope they keep it as a rare item because snipers in open world games are OP as ♥♥♥♥ so they should keep it as a strong rare item for players that have been in the server surviving for a while. Of course people can get lucky and find it too earlier but it should be rare.

 

As far as PVE vs PVP goes... all PVE players are potential fuutre PVP players. Once you've mastered the game and you have your base safe and you've done pretty much everything, you will start looking for extra challenges, and surviving with the mance of zombies + the randomness that cannot be coded of other humans makes the game much more interesting objectively. Specially once the game is finished and there aren't more additions to the game it would be pretty autistic to play solo or coop forever... PVP+PVE is the final form of survival.

[skullpoker]

nobody is asking for that.

a lot of the things dont effect soloplay or would enhance that as well.

 

 

PS: the 1% figure is wrong and depending on time of the last release is closer to 10% maybe more.

 

How to fix pvp in a few relatively simple steps:

1]Do not mix high and low level player game stages. Fighting cops being level 1 is annoying and downright impossible

2]Dramatically increase minimum player vs block protection from landclaim blocks. Also make it so that if a player fails to destroy a certain block it will heal over time. Disable landclaim decay altogether.

3]Join low level players on low level player spawns away from high level players.

4]Add engines earlier in the game. Make cement a higher perk and electrity perks lower level. Having electricity early game means a well protected base.

5]Make dying less punishing. Either disable dropping items altogether or allow only certain items to be droppable (materials and blocks over clothes and weapons).

6]Make player killers having bounty on their heads. Force faction and bounty hunter creations.

 

Drastic reduction in gun damage vs players would be really important to me as a PvP player. One-shotting someone, or loading them full of 7.62 from an AK-47 before they even know you're there is so lame. From both an attacker and a victim's perspective. Being able to react is an important fun part of PvP, and right now there isn't enough time to react in most scenarios. Drastically increasing the sound radii and miscellaneous player sounds would help a lot so players could recognize that other players are within 500m or 1km of their position. Early and mid game battles are the best, with a roughly thrown together toolset like a landmine, a crossbow, maybe a pistol or a hunting rifle at most. Once it progresses to full purple iron armor and AK-47s I just hate it lmao. I don't think we need more guns at all. Most PvP happens at very long intervals and it's entirely too explosive. Like you won't see someone for 60 hours and then boom some guy with a 600 qual ak-47 was crouching in a corner so you're dead and you lose several days of work just like that. The AK-47 was the worst addition to the game from a PvP perspective because it's just too strong. The sniper was already too strong but at least it was rare, now snipers feel like they're literally everywhere and everyone is capable of one-shotting anyone else within the first few hours.

 

You are incorrect.

 

BTW the 1% figure came from Madmole 2 days ago, as you can see here: https://7daystodie.com/forums/showthread.php?74084-Developer-Diary-Alpha-17&p=839407&viewfull=1#post839407

[Viktoriusiii]

BTW the 1% figure came from Madmole 2 days ago, as you can see here: https://7daystodie.com/forums/showthread.php?74084-Developer-Diary-Alpha-17&p=839407&viewfull=1#post839407

 

And the "1% is bull♥♥♥♥" comment came from me.

Whats your point?

Nothing against MM... I like him. I've talked with him in the very early alphas quite a few times. But he doesn't even know his own game. Unless he provides a statistic (which I have btw) that debunks what I have said, his word is not worth more then mine. Its even worth less because I at least gave some figures (and used the smalles amount of PvP players, while the maximum amount is probably closer to 15 or 20%)

[SylenThunder]

The poll I had done came to a tad over 3%, and the last time someone pulled live data over the weekend it was similar. I think you guys are over-inflating the percentages just a tad.

[eidobunny]

I'd like to see PvP values when A18 drops and not at some random point in the patch lifecycle. I think PvP is most alive in the first month after a patch drop. Also, I'd like to see documentation on how "live data over the weekend" is calculated. I'm guessing whoever collected the data didn't do extremely thorough research regarding the ruleset of every server with active players. If you just look at servers with PvP in the title and assume everything else is PvE, you could seriously underrepresent the PvP community. A lot of servers claim to be neither PvE nor PvP but function with free for all rules. Likewise, some are definitely PvP and some are definitely PvE. I think more high-quality research right after the new alpha drops will show dramatically higher numbers than 3%. Maybe not 30% but definitely in the 10%+ region. Even 3% is more fair than madmole's 1% though.

[Jedo]

Unless he provides an aggregation of (assumed) data (which I have btw) that debunks what I have said, his word is not worth more then mine. Its even worth less because I at least gave some figures (and used the smalles amount of PvP players, while the maximum amount is probably closer to 15 or 20%)

 

Fixed that for you.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

I'd like to see PvP values when A18 drops and not at some random point in the patch lifecycle. I think PvP is most alive in the first month after a patch drop. Also, I'd like to see documentation on how "live data over the weekend" is calculated. I'm guessing whoever collected the data didn't do extremely thorough research regarding the ruleset of every server with active players. If you just look at servers with PvP in the title and assume everything else is PvE, you could seriously underrepresent the PvP community. A lot of servers claim to be neither PvE nor PvP but function with free for all rules. Likewise, some are definitely PvP and some are definitely PvE. I think more high-quality research right after the new alpha drops will show dramatically higher numbers than 3%. Maybe not 30% but definitely in the 10%+ region. Even 3% is more fair than madmole's 1% though.

 

Basically, MM is the one most likely to have good, accurate statistical information. The rest of us have to resort to imperfect collection methods which are loaded with assumptions and bias.

 

Even if MM was being hyperbolic, what he said probably still is more accurate than anyone else.

[eidobunny]

What he said was accurate and how he said it was offensive. He used it to belittle a specific person who had scorned him, but ended up belittling an entire community and that's why everyone here is being uppity about percents.

[Jedo]

What he said was accurate and how he said it was offensive. He used it to belittle a specific person who had scorned him, but ended up belittling an entire community and that's why everyone here is being uppity about percents.

 

Strange that this does not seem to be the driving argument then. I mean, if that's the case, people wouldn't be quoting percents back (even if they were accurate), but would be saying, "We may be small, but that doesn't mean we are worthless!" You said something to that effect once, but Viktoriusiii hasn't (as far as I can tell).

 

Anyway, I'll take your olive branch: MM was right, and the PVP crowd are mad that MM doesn't seem to care about you. Will you stop posting bogus statistics now?

 

Edit: Upon reflection, I suppose this is a classic conflict between logic and emotion. People have an emotional response to a logical choice (in this case, one conveyed with emotional force), and they try to justify their emotion with logic so as to meet on the same plane. In the end, though, emotion and logic cannot meet on the same plane, and the result is more anger and confusion and frustration on all sides.

[eidobunny]

Strange that this does not seem to be the driving argument then. I mean, if that's the case, people wouldn't be quoting percents back (even if they were accurate), but would be saying, "We may be small, but that doesn't mean we are worthless!" You said something to that effect once, but Viktoriusiii hasn't (as far as I can tell).

 

Anyway, I'll take your olive branch: MM was right, and the PVP crowd are mad that MM doesn't seem to care about you. Will you stop posting bogus statistics now?

 

Edit: Upon reflection, I suppose this is a classic conflict between logic and emotion. People have an emotional response to a logical choice (in this case, one conveyed with emotional force), and they try to justify their emotion with logic so as to meet on the same plane. In the end, though, emotion and logic cannot meet on the same plane, and the result is more anger and confusion and frustration on all sides.

 

I mean, I never posted bogus statistics iirc. I posted a certain subset of statistics that suited my point, like considering active PvP players vs active PvE players at a particular stage in the patch lifecycle and intentionally not considering active SP players. I guess one could perceive me as "manipulating" statistics but I think of it as using a particular set of data in a specific way to support my argument. I'm not just vomiting out things like "50% of the 3 million owners actively play PvP," all of my claims have been legitimate as long as you subscribe to the frame of reference that I'm establishing. If someone says "50% of all fruit is thrown away" and I want to change the subject to specifically apples, and I claim that only 25% of apples are thrown away, you wouldn't say "but the fda knows how much fruit is thrown away and it is 50%." You also wouldn't say "but 75% of oranges are thrown away" to engage in the apple argument.

 

Yeah, I know PvP is a small community, but it's not as small as its made out to be, especially considering all ACTIVE players. And what if you considered total number of hours played in PvP vs total number of hours played in PvE. I KNOW madmole doesn't have these statistics because there's no way except through hard manual research to come up with these numbers. Like logging into every server and checking the pvp rules and counting how many active players are on at any given time and doing this methodically over a period of time. I said before, if 1000 people play 10 hours each and 10 people play 1000 hours each, they are weighted 50/50 in terms of actual play hours. So the 10 people are 1% but they make up 50% of all playtime, so they end up being a much larger group on a grand scale than they appear by being called "1% of all players"

[Jedo]

I mean, I never posted bogus statistics iirc. I posted a certain subset of statistics that suited my point, like considering active PvP players vs active PvE players at a particular stage in the patch lifecycle and intentionally not considering active SP players. I guess one could perceive me as "manipulating" statistics but I think of it as using a particular set of data in a specific way to support my argument. I'm not just vomiting out things like "50% of the 3 million owners actively play PvP," all of my claims have been legitimate as long as you subscribe to the frame of reference that I'm establishing. If someone says "50% of all fruit is thrown away" and I want to change the subject to specifically apples, and I claim that only 25% of apples are thrown away, you wouldn't say "but the fda knows how much fruit is thrown away and it is 50%." You also wouldn't say "but 75% of oranges are thrown away" to engage in the apple argument.

 

You conclude that a person wouldn't engage the apple argument by talking about oranges, but the apple argument came in exactly as a supposed engagement of the fruit-as-a-whole argument. In other words, you've done the very thing that you reject as viable.

 

MM posted an absolute statistic about PVP players. You can argue the veracity of his number (if you have access to the same data and can challenge his interpretation of the data), or you can present an argument that the data set that he was using wasn't useful and present an alternative data set.

 

Admittedly, you have attempted to do the latter by arguing that PVP servers are best surveyed just after a release, but this fails on multiple fronts. 1) That plays exactly into MM's point that PVP isn't very popular (especially if he can show that non-PVP's popularity has less drop-off over the same period). 2) Presenting another data set isn't actually the same as showing why his data set isn't useful. 3) Your statistics are still not viable, that is, they are not gathered using the same tools that MM used. (In the vein of the rest of my post, 4) arguing for a different data set still doesn't do the work of effectively responding to the emotional slight that you felt.)

[eidobunny]

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[bloom_meister]

Guys it doesn't matter who said what and what stats are right wrong or made up, the important thing to keep in mind is that MM stated he wanted to make some positive improvements to PVP which he and the team will get to once they have their other more pressing priorities out of the way, on that note lets look beyond A17 initial release and work on what we would like as part of later A17 xxx releases, A18 or whatever, and yes I know MM said he wasn't sure if there would be a A18 before some nitpicking **** comes along and reminds me

[Guppycur]

...y'all should know that the people on my discord find it hilarious that the PvP group gets along so poorly that their own thread is imploding on itself...

 

C'mon, most of you are better than this, get a grip. =)

[bloom_meister]

...y'all should know that the people on my discord find it hilarious that the PvP group gets along so poorly that their own thread is imploding on itself...

 

C'mon, most of you are better than this, get a grip. =)

 

 

This do ?

[Guppycur]

I've never been a fan of lasers on pistols. Seems too much like cheating. =)