Which is the more important main feature of the game?

[toores]

Voted for storyline. I believe that it's super important with a good world to play in, but without a story, then is there really a game? I personally don't think so.

 

Haha... I think we have pretty good game already. No story to it, but great game mechanics. Now strip all that and add a story instead - all you got is telltale game a interactive movie basically

[DeadMole]

Well we already know you are prone to assuming the worst possibilities...

 

That will vary from noob to noob and vet to vet. You're projecting your own view onto everyone. Tons of people will continue to buy this game for the sandbox aspect of it and many might never play the Navezgane story. Tons of people will buy it to play the main quest and put the 10-30 hours needed for that and then never play the game again. Tons will play both versions. Regardless, the mode that will generate 1000's of hours of play is the one that let's people create their own stories.

 

Perhaps not assuming, but always expecting the worst is indeed fair to say.

 

That's just missing the point. New players will want a tutorial/main quest. I never played the game and have no idea how it works, but I'm just going to jump online right away. That makes no sense. Even if the campaign is only one hour long, you need one to get familiarized with the game. Of course we live in a time when players will often watch gameplay videos before playing themselves, and won't need a tutorial and sure, there's players who will prefer discovering how it works on their own and that's great, but I certainly don't think that's a majority. Besides, many gamers won't stick to one game for a thousand hours. Only the most dedicated does that.

 

Now strip all that and add a story instead - all you got is telltale game a interactive movie basically

 

I seriously have no idea where this mentality of wanting storylines out of videogames comes from. "Go read a book" and whatnot, what the heck? Even the original Final Fantasy had a storyline going on and that was over 30 years ago. So now we're supposed to get multiplayer games with a lame storyline stuck to it?

[SylenThunder]

I made a pong game in high school on a TRS-80. I didn't actually finish it but the paddles had independent controls and they both worked well, at least. I graduated before I could put story mode in.

Oh man, I remember those days. Wrote my first pseudo-AI in Basic on one of those. Later upgraded it to Pascal.

 

It could really get off on a tangent sometimes, which made for great stories.

 

 

 

I voted for story. Navezgane really needs a reason for me to play it, and so far the only reason was the new POI's. It's basically the beginner mode for figuring out how to play right now. It shouldn't be that. With the small map though, it's hard to be anything else with the currently limited options.

[DeadMole]

I voted for story. Navezgane really needs a reason for me to play it, and so far the only reason was the new POI's.

 

I must say it's interesting to see that about a quarter of members voted for story so far, I wasn't expecting so many haha. As I posted in the Developer Diary thread, Navezgane does feel really empty without NPCs.

[Thrower]

I would find it a turn off, i like the fact you can do what you like, when you like and not be restricted by quests and storylines. Having to go to location Z to find object(s) G and then return to location A, then have to go and find object U in location R, before returning, i honestly don't want to have to do that in 7d2d

 

Having it as an option is okay, but if you have to do them to get certain things or unlock certain things, i really won't be looking forward to that being implemented

 

That's just my opinion though, if everyone else wants it, take the majority over the minority

[Crater Creator]

On the flip side though, if they add more unique items, wouldn’t it cheapen the effect if you win Grabthar’s hammer at the end of an epic quest, only to find another one lying in a nightstand the next day?

[xiiMaRcLeoN]

A randomly generated world with smooth terrain.

 

Of course.

[DeadMole]

Having it as an option is okay, but if you have to do them to get certain things or unlock certain things, i really won't be looking forward to that being implemented

 

That's not what I had in mind at all and I too would dislike that, actually. I had in mind a main quest like in Fallout and Skyrim that you can abandon to do whatever else anytime you please.

 

A randomly generated world with smooth terrain.

 

Of course.

 

Why yes, of course. Silly me for ever thinking a main quest is not the least of importance.

[Roland]

Perhaps not assuming, but always expecting the worst is indeed fair to say.

 

That just makes you suffer twice...

 

 

That's just missing the point. New players will want a tutorial/main quest. I never played the game and have no idea how it works, but I'm just going to jump online right away. That makes no sense. Even if the campaign is only one hour long, you need one to get familiarized with the game. Of course we live in a time when players will often watch gameplay videos before playing themselves, and won't need a tutorial and sure, there's players who will prefer discovering how it works on their own and that's great, but I certainly don't think that's a majority. Besides, many gamers won't stick to one game for a thousand hours. Only the most dedicated does that.

 

Many gamers don't stick to one game for a thousand hours because they play games that have a linear story that lasts maybe 20 hours and then there is no reason to keep playing. You are discounting the thousands of players who somehow muddled through this game without a story and found it compelling enough to keep playing. What makes no sense is to think that players need a tutorial or some hand holding by way of a story line to get into a game. I agree that many might want that but the last four years of this game being out there and steadily growing in popularity belies the idea that gamers need a tutorial.

 

Why yes, of course. Silly me for ever thinking a main quest is not the least of importance.

 

Not least. Just less.

 

I don't not want a story. I just think its fine if they add it after the game goes gold and I definitely don't think it is anywhere near the most important end of the feature spectrum. But I'll play through it when it's added for sure.

[fragtzack]

Do you remember the alternate ending to pong... Breakout?

 

 

I am so old, I played the original Atari pong when it was released to the public for home use.

 

 

Also Experienced the release of Pacman, Space Invaders coin arcade games. The first time I seen Pacman, there was huge crowd around this 1 Pacman arcade game at a Pizza joint. Seeing someone play Pacman for the first time was sort of amazing at the time.

 

[BioFringe]

Terraria, RimWorld, Project Zomboid...Story?

 

What does 7D2D need a story for. Random Worlds with LOTS of options to choose from. Nothing else needed.

[geengaween]

+1 for world. This game doesn't need a written story, the world tells the story and we make our own. This is the kind of game where the story is told by what happens to you and how you survive.

 

If I want a story I'll play games like Witcher 3 or Kingdom Come. These games have world class storylines with excellent voice acting. Why try to compete with stories that are superior in every aspect, when they could double down and continue making the world as atmospheric and interesting as possible?

 

I like the feeling of loneliness and isolation that 7DTD gives me. I don't want them to waste time making NPC's and bandits, I'd rather the world be given more and more atmosphere and variety.

[DeadMole]

That just makes you suffer twice...

 

Many gamers don't stick to one game for a thousand hours because they play games that have a linear story that lasts maybe 20 hours and then there is no reason to keep playing. You are discounting the thousands of players who somehow muddled through this game without a story and found it compelling enough to keep playing. What makes no sense is to think that players need a tutorial or some hand holding by way of a story line to get into a game. I agree that many might want that but the last four years of this game being out there and steadily growing in popularity belies the idea that gamers need a tutorial.

 

Not least. Just less.

 

I just think its fine if they add it after the game goes gold and I definitely don't think it is anywhere near the most important end of the feature spectrum. But I'll play through it when it's added for sure.

 

Expect the worst, and you will be ready for anything.

 

Because casual players who aren't extremely dedicated to a game won't get bored after 20 hours? There's so many games out there players often get bored of one and switch right to the next. Then again, the game is so addictive I knew after the first hour I wasn't going to stop playing it anytime soon haha. I would be disappointed if there was nothing else than a short campaign as well, but it does seem like the logical entry point into the game. So, it makes no sense that casual playera will get rid of the game because they get bored from not knowing what to do for not having indications? Wait... what? Did you just agree with something I said? I got to mark this date on my callendar hehe. Yep, sadly players need to watch YouTube videos and read the wiki before playing now.

 

Yet again, I strongly doubt most players start with RGW right away. Heck, some casual players don't even know what RGW actually is. Think of a brand new player joining the forum and reading this thread: a main quest with objectives? Sure! RGW smooth terrain... what the heck is that?

 

Well it's my turn to agree with you now... or at least partially hehe. Perhaps having the whole storyline into the game right away is not necessary as I posted in the Developer Diary thread. Maybe just a chapter, or a part of it to at least get to see what the game is about right away would suffice, since I doubt everyone would bother following it until the end.

 

Also Experienced the release of Pacman, Space Invaders coin arcade games. The first time I seen Pacman, there was huge crowd around this 1 Pacman arcade game at a Pizza joint. Seeing someone play Pacman for the first time was sort of amazing at the time.

 

Ahhh... the good old times when games didn't even have enough memory to actually have a written story in them haha. But hey, everything was better in the good old days eh?

[Bubo]

I am so old, I played the original Atari pong when it was released to the public for home use.

 

 

Also Experienced the release of Pacman, Space Invaders coin arcade games. The first time I seen Pacman, there was huge crowd around this 1 Pacman arcade game at a Pizza joint. Seeing someone play Pacman for the first time was sort of amazing at the time.

 

 

Long live those pizzeria memories of Space Invaders, Asteroids and a KISS Pinball machine

[Roland]

Expect the best and then self-fulfill that prophecy...

[Maharin]

[Bimbie]

I like the Mystery.

 

Where am I? ....dunno

How did I get her in the woods? ... dunno

WHERE ARE MY CLOTHES!!! ... angry & dunno

[toores]

I seriously have no idea where this mentality of wanting storylines out of videogames comes from. "Go read a book" and whatnot, what the heck? Even the original Final Fantasy had a storyline going on and that was over 30 years ago. So now we're supposed to get multiplayer games with a lame storyline stuck to it?

 

Please do not misrepresent what i'm saying.

I would love to have a good story line for 7d2d. I' simply saying, in a game like 7d2d, the game mechanics are far more important for it to be a good game.

Even quest system is more important then a good "main sory" because modders will add so much replay value you simply can't get from a single main quest.

If it is easy for modders to create fallout 3/NV-like conversations with NPCs and add conditions to it, like skill checks for some answers or item checks, then you will have more quality quest to play trough in the long run.

 

There are other, more linear, games where good story is most important but not in the case of 7d2d or minecraft for that matter.

[DeadMole]

Please do not misrepresent what i'm saying.

 

There are other, more linear, games where good story is most important but not in the case of 7d2d or minecraft for that matter.

 

I was refering to players who said that stories should be taken out of games and that I should read a book instead.

 

As I mentioned 7 Days has a strong Fallout feel to it, and it would seem lackluster not to have a decent main quest/storyline for the more linear Navezgane experience.

 

I've been addressing this from the viewpoint of average players who are getting into the game, but there's another viewpoint that is quite important: game reviewers. And I'm speaking of professional critics working for reputable publications here. They will naturally play the linear Navezgane "campaign" first, before going any deeper into it. So, will a solid quest system affect the score of the game more than a RGW feature they might not even notice? Also, if the game seems unfinished and is still broken upon final release, it will get trashed just like the console version did. Think of AC Unity. I know for a fact (figure of speech) that none of us would want that eh. Ubisoft is one of my favorite dev, but I don't trust them anymore than I trust TFP.

[TotallyNotABot]

Story's can come after the world is finished IMO

[KanedaSyndrome]

Haha... I think we have pretty good game already. No story to it, but great game mechanics. Now strip all that and add a story instead - all you got is telltale game a interactive movie basically

 

Hi,

 

So yeah, a few people quoted me, and I'm choosing to reply to you

 

I recognize that we already have game mechanics which adds fun to the game, so of course, yes the game mechanics and the basic gameplay elements should be in place as they're incredibly important to making a good game, as you say, otherwise we end up with a telltale game.

 

Now my reason for voting for the story however, is that I feel that games that provide great tools but no reason to use those tools fall flat compared to games where they give a real reason to actually use the tools given.

 

I think we've reached an age, 2018, where we should start thinking about how we add a deeper reason and meaning to the activaties we ask the player to perform. I'm not talking about old style quests where you're told to fetch X amount of something, as they're as flat and pointless as a game with no gameplay.

I'm talking about a game of consequence and attachment. I want a game which makes me care for other entities, a game that makes me want to protect/hurt these entities and a game that punishes me if I fail to achieve my goals, be they good or evil. A game where if I ignore something it changes my environment or grows larger and more powerful until it attacks and I lose.

 

This is why I voted for the storyline, as I truly don't believe that you can call a game a true game in 2018, if it doesn't somehow make you "care".

Right now the game objective is mainly to survive, or build something grand, but this quickly becomes trivial and once this has been achieved, then what is the point? Time to start over?

I don't think having a game where you need to start over to give yourself something to do is good game design.

[Crater Creator]

Also, if the game seems unfinished and is still broken upon final release, it will get trashed just like the console version did. Think of AC Unity. I know for a fact (figure of speech) that none of us would want that eh.

 

What the heck is "I know for a fact" supposed to mean if it's used figuratively instead of literally? If you mean "I think that..." or "I assume that..." then you should just say it that way, for accuracy. I wouldn't be a stickler for this, except asserting the certainty of your assumptions without justification has caused much argument around your posts in recent days.

 

I would just stick to your strongest argument, which to me is: 7DtD legitimately qualifies as a role playing game at this point, and a story/main quest line/however you want to phrase it is an important, obligatory component for that genre.

[Scyris]

Why can't we have both? Could make special POI's that are directly story related that only spawn once per world, and each part of the quest will lead you towards the next special story poi. Make each a well made unique poi, and make sure to set ti so they can always spawn in randon gen but will only spawn once.

[DeadMole]

Now my reason for voting for the story however, is that I feel that games that provide great tools but no reason to use those tools fall flat compared to games where they give a real reason to actually use the tools given.

 

That's an interesting point. Having to deal with the action RPG elements and the crafting part throughout a strong main quest would seem like the best way to at least begin using those tools. Especially since 7 Days is such a complex blend with much to offer, might as well have a story where you need to use those tools.

 

What the heck is "I know for a fact" supposed to mean if it's used figuratively instead of literally? If you mean "I think that..." or "I assume that..." then you should just say it that way, for accuracy. I wouldn't be a stickler for this, except asserting the certainty of your assumptions without justification has caused much argument around your posts in recent days.

 

I would just stick to your strongest argument, which to me is: 7DtD legitimately qualifies as a role playing game at this point, and a story/main quest line/however you want to phrase it is an important, obligatory component for that genre.

 

Ah, got to love aruguing semantics. Who really does care how I phrase my posts? I think members has been nitpicky just to get into an argument for the sake of it.

 

So I'm not allowed to post other arguments than those you judge important?

[OzHawkeye]

So I'm not allowed to post other arguments than those you judge important?

 

I don't think Crater is saying that at all - and certainly I've never seen during my time as a Community Moderator anything moderated merely because it was critical. So, to be clear, please be critical of the lack of a story in the game, if a story in the game is important to you, or you feel it's important to the games success.

 

I think the point Crater was picking up on as that you used a phrase normally used literally, but employed it figuratively - indeed, you then had to qualify your remarks to point out you were using it figuratively and not literally, somewhat negating the point of using it at all.

 

Where some viewpoints can get let down to a degree, is when the person advocating for them, does it so stridently that they're claiming the sky is falling if x, y or z is/is not implemented.

 

Personally, I have no interest in a story line for 7dtd, but I can see how it would help the game, both for players who enjoy that sort of thing, and for potential reviewers, so I've also got no objection to the Pimps spending time on it, so long as it doesn't overly detract from time spent on actual game play mechanics and remains something voluntary, rather than necessary, to play.