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A16 - STARVATION Mod for A16


Mortelentus
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Both are a 2 edged sword... We want weather in starvation, so it feels like default should be on, but hey whatever, I might just do that just to avoid all the stress of dealing with complains... I knew we would get complains, just like we did with Sanity, and crop plagues, and rats, and I could go on and on, and I'm sure people with settle in and either love it or hate it ;)

 

The seasons no doubt are a product of a lot of thought, work and love, so what about making the system 3-tier like off, casual and hardcore, hardcore being the one in the current version, casual preventing temperature drops above or below certain limits, to make cattle and trees stop producing but not die, to make people being able to counter the effects without minmaxing temp gear. Casual could be the version on by default then and people could be able to adjust to either turn it off or go hardcore.

 

As for the farmer, it may make it useless (it was never a popular feature), but it couldn't stay as it was... Free food spoilage free container for life is a no go (there's enough exploits for that already). We'll probably have to add Fridge to the usable storages for the farmer though...

 

Adding the fridge sounds like an excellent idea. Something else that comes to mind would be the farmer being able to work with the un-upgraded farm storage, the food just spoils inside. This would feel intuitive and would solve the free food storage issue as well. I totally agree on that issue and it should be solved! Having to babysit the farmer in return isn't a good tradeoff though.

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so i assume the new version does not need a wipe?

 

Correct no wipe needed.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

The seasons no doubt are a product of a lot of thought, work and love, so what about making the system 3-tier like off, casual and hardcore, hardcore being the one in the current version, casual preventing temperature drops above or below certain limits, to make cattle and trees stop producing but not die, to make people being able to counter the effects without minmaxing temp gear. Casual could be the version on by default then and people could be able to adjust to either turn it off or go hardcore.

 

 

 

Adding the fridge sounds like an excellent idea. Something else that comes to mind would be the farmer being able to work with the un-upgraded farm storage, the food just spoils inside. This would feel intuitive and would solve the free food storage issue as well. I totally agree on that issue and it should be solved! Having to babysit the farmer in return isn't a good tradeoff though.

 

For now, I will provide a few weather files .

 

Let's wait a bit more to see what else comes up, and i'll do that farmer update

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Correct no wipe needed.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

 

 

For now, I will provide a few weather files .

 

Let's wait a bit more to see what else comes up, and i'll do that farmer update

 

Got to play a little more and this is what I found:

 

1. Might be vanilla bug but at I'm stuck at hypothermia stage 3 (0F) or other random low temperature and cannot raise my temperature at all even after eating meat stew and sitting near many heat sources.

2. Saw two instances of duping cows when picking them up. One cow showed up as a stack of 2 cows in inventory when picked up.

3. Harvesting cows don't decrease their health. Infinite milk? I didn't try too many harvests but I was able to get 10 milk bottles from 2 cows in one go. Might be because I have a high level husbandry.

4. You can make royal jelly pills but you cannot eat them.

5. Breeding cows appear to be working again and cows/bulls are also eating. Having the ability to see animal info is a very nice add-on. Will help with debugging as well.

6. I'm indoors with a roof and getting wet when it snows. (Might be vanilla bug).

 

Because of #1 (or possibly weather settings) I cannot do anything except sit near several campfires to keep warm and eat and heal myself. I have video footage if you want to see it. I spent the last several days doing nothing but this and am going through food reserves pretty fast.

Note: Wearing +72 insulation.

 

Suggestions/Questions:

 

1. Any plans to make some kind of heater that use electricity that keeps a room warm? Similar to the AC unit.

2. Any plans to allow indoor farming (with appropriate temperature)? I don't know if stage 3-4 weather will affect farm growth, but at least for stage 5, you should allow indoor farms.

3. Any plans to stop spoilage from the weather? If it's really cold then I don't see why things should spoil.

4. Any plans to add food/drinks to increase temperature? I know coffee and beef stew, but how about new foods? Warm milk? Warm water?

5. I don't have any survivors (yeah I'm lazy) but will they die from the cold weather?

6. Does the cold weather affect fruit tree growth? My fully grown fruit trees didn't appear to revert back to so I assume mature fruit trees are not affected.

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I'm playing through a session to see about temperature... As I said I managed to keep temperature under control on my tests even at stage 5 winter, but I add to choose my resting biome carefully... Let's see how it goes, if you can't manage it in the meanwhile, reduce or remove temperature modifiers...

 

As for being wet inside, during forced seasons you will ALWAYS have some level of wetness or cold, anywhere everywhere...

 

Suggestions:

 

1. Yes. Probably the same AC with a switch.

2. We'll see... One of the objectives of winter is precisely counter how easy it is to establish a farm, but we'll see how it goes... It has been asked quite a few times.

3. Might be something to think about, but again it may debunk the purpose of winter... Again something to be seen indeed.

5. No... Not yet at least :)

6. Yes, once you harvest a grown tree, it may not grow back until winter has passed.

Edited by Mortelentus (see edit history)
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I'm playing through a session to see about temperature... As I said I managed to keep temperature under control on my tests even at stage 5 winter, but I add to choose my resting biome carefully... Let's see how it goes, if you can't manage it in the meanwhile, reduce or remove temperature modifiers...

 

As for being wet inside, during forced seasons you will ALWAYS have some level of wetness or cold, anywhere everywhere...

 

I only have 1 day left for this stage 5 winter so I'm going to tough it out. Then I can say I survived the default stage 5 winter. But nevertheless I'll show you some footage. Perhaps you'll be able to reproduce it.

 

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I only have 1 day left for this stage 5 winter so I'm going to tough it out. Then I can say I survived the default stage 5 winter. But nevertheless I'll show you some footage. Perhaps you'll be able to reproduce it.

 

 

Btw, I probably edited in the suggestions after you saw the post, check it out.

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More feedback after playing some more with 16.0.1.02:

 

1. Baby cows after turning into adult cows become untamed. You need to pick them up again to tame them.

2. Beeswax candles cannot be placed on walls. Can you make them act like torches?

3. Beeswax candles give a *huge* light source. I think 1.5 or 2x torches. Is this intended? (Want to keep balance)

4. I'm now at day 210 (stage 3 weather in default weather settings) and it's more manageable. Campfires and large forges now increase my temperature. At stage 5 weather I'm mostly stuck at 0F or around there.

5. My fruit trees matured even at stage 3 weather. Perhaps only stage 5 weather prevents growth?

6. As you saw in my video my small farm was barren. Earlier I had fully grown carrots, which disappeared after the stage 5 weather kicked in. What you didn't see is I have a huge farm by the water far from my main base. I planted wheat there but the wheat was still in the initial stage. Is stage 5 weather supposed to kill/remove all traces of planted veggies or only remove the mature ones?

7. Possible issue with spawning screamers (witches) after these weather changes. Whenever the forge and big forge is running, I'd have visits from screamers. I have not seen any screamers after this update even when they're running.

 

Questions:

 

1. For the snowy seasons, will they fill up the rain collectors? If not, snowy seasons makes the rain collectors useless.

2. I still haven't found strawberries at all. Do they grow in the forests? Or where can I find them?

3. Still haven't found the ore scanner. What container(s) is/are defined as 'rare tools'?

 

Thanks.

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2. I still haven't found strawberries at all. Do they grow in the forests? Or where can I find them?

 

I never found wild grown strawberries and I suspect they are loot-the-seed exclusive. I definitely got some seeds from kitchen cabinets.

 

7. Possible issue with spawning screamers (witches) after these weather changes. Whenever the forge and big forge is running, I'd have visits from screamers. I have not seen any screamers after this update even when they're running.

 

I notice an overall increase of screamer appearing as well. Partly due to the weather, partly to the changes in heat produced from lighting. The issue I'm having with this is, that it becomes less of a rare event but something you get so used to, that you set up a permanent solution and not really interact with anymore. I suggest two tweaks:

 

1. Less impactful and more for logic consistency: screamers are attracted by the flickering warm light coming from fire, not from cold electrical light, because half of the abandoned buildings are lit electrically. So, adding candles to heat map: yes, insect lights: no.

 

2. We could give players a way to counteract heat generation at a cost that would also put some more use to the survivors beacon and survivors in general in exchange for spending fuel and food in a two-step change. First step would be to make the player have the beacon run more often and for longer times, thus spending more fuel. This would be achieved by adding a delay to the next survivor appearing, depending on how many of them have already been called from this location (this would be logic too, first the ones living close by appear quickly and later it takes longer and longer for people living further away to discover the signal and travel to you). Combined with a motivation to house more survivors than the ones you want to occupy the stations: unemployed survivors and children survivors could be a way to decrease heat of the location. So they don't just do nothing at all, but for that to work they will need to eat. They just eat from their inventory only, so the player has a better control over it. What you guys think about the idea?

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2. Beeswax candles cannot be placed on walls. Can you make them act like torches?

3. Beeswax candles give a *huge* light source. I think 1.5 or 2x torches. Is this intended? (Want to keep balance)

 

They were intended to be high quality table candles, the model isnt for a wallcandle. I was intending the light to equal that of a torch. Maybe I will adjust it down a bit.

 

Questions:

 

1. For the snowy seasons, will they fill up the rain collectors? If not, snowy seasons makes the rain collectors useless.

 

I hope it does. We would like to freeze most water in the future s until then this would be good.

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1. Less impactful and more for logic consistency: screamers are attracted by the flickering warm light coming from fire, not from cold electrical light, because half of the abandoned buildings are lit electrically. So, adding candles to heat map: yes, insect lights: no.

 

 

Bug lights spark and flicker and make a loud snap when zapping a bug....so they need a heatmap. I only made it equal to a candle, which isnt much, imo it should be much more but this seemed a good compromise.

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2. Beeswax candles cannot be placed on walls. Can you make them act like torches?

3. Beeswax candles give a *huge* light source. I think 1.5 or 2x torches. Is this intended? (Want to keep balance)

 

They were intended to be high quality table candles, the model isnt for a wallcandle. I was intending the light to equal that of a torch. Maybe I will adjust it down a bit.

 

Questions:

 

1. For the snowy seasons, will they fill up the rain collectors? If not, snowy seasons makes the rain collectors useless.

 

I hope it does. We would like to freeze most water in the future s until then this would be good.

 

If you don't plan to make beeswax candles placeable on the wall then I'd keep them as is. Trade-off is placement flexibility vs more light. Plus the beeswax candle is harder to make compared to torches so they should be better.

 

I don't think snow fills up as water but I'll check later.

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More feedback after playing some more with 16.0.1.02:

 

2. I still haven't found strawberries at all. Do they grow in the forests? Or where can I find them?

3. Still haven't found the ore scanner. What container(s) is/are defined as 'rare tools'?

 

Thanks.

 

2. i've got mine from cabinet and traders

3. i've got mine from airdrop

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I never found wild grown strawberries and I suspect they are loot-the-seed exclusive. I definitely got some seeds from kitchen cabinets.

 

 

 

I notice an overall increase of screamer appearing as well. Partly due to the weather, partly to the changes in heat produced from lighting. The issue I'm having with this is, that it becomes less of a rare event but something you get so used to, that you set up a permanent solution and not really interact with anymore. I suggest two tweaks:

 

1. Less impactful and more for logic consistency: screamers are attracted by the flickering warm light coming from fire, not from cold electrical light, because half of the abandoned buildings are lit electrically. So, adding candles to heat map: yes, insect lights: no.

 

2. We could give players a way to counteract heat generation at a cost that would also put some more use to the survivors beacon and survivors in general in exchange for spending fuel and food in a two-step change. First step would be to make the player have the beacon run more often and for longer times, thus spending more fuel. This would be achieved by adding a delay to the next survivor appearing, depending on how many of them have already been called from this location (this would be logic too, first the ones living close by appear quickly and later it takes longer and longer for people living further away to discover the signal and travel to you). Combined with a motivation to house more survivors than the ones you want to occupy the stations: unemployed survivors and children survivors could be a way to decrease heat of the location. So they don't just do nothing at all, but for that to work they will need to eat. They just eat from their inventory only, so the player has a better control over it. What you guys think about the idea?

 

I just found a strawberry seed from a trader! Finally! Figures that I'm currently on stage 3 weather so I don't think anything will grow.

 

The issue I was having was that screamers didn't appear. But you said they do appear in your game after the weather update. It's possible my spikes/traps are killing them before they get to me in my game. However a lot of them usually survive and spot me previously. I'll do more testing...

 

I don't like the idea of increasing wait times between survivors. They need to be consistent for sanity and debugging purposes. You don't always get the survivor you want. When you do and they die out and/or you want more of the same you'll now rely on RNG *and* a timer. Plus I think it'll be a pain to code for MP. As for using survivors to decrease the heatmap, I'm not a fond of that either. The heatmap is a fundamental vanilla feature. Starvation is supposed to make 7D2D harder, not easier.

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my personal comment and perhaps suggestion for the food recipe balances:

 

1. all foods with "Bad food" status ? this is basically eating poison, as it reduce quite a lot of wellness, i forgot how many it is, but it's around 3-5 wellness per food if i'm not mistaken. eating two or three of it are basically the same like killing yourself, as it reduce almost the same amount of wellness. either the buff need some tweak, (maybe not reduce wellness at all, but perhaps increase addiction /reduce stamina per-second /prone to catch flu /reduce movement speed by 10%) or the bad food recipe should be removed entirely, since there's really no point in making it, especially the troublesome effort required to make em. might as well just eat a zombie's meat.

 

2. end-game recipe food such as pizza / goulash / apple pie, mixed salad etc might need more extra bonus, maybe movement speed bonus or stamina regen bonus? considering the effort and resources needed to make em. (why i consider it end-game recipes is because we will need a farm established and founded all the rare seeds required for these foods). as of now, the bonus is only "good food" buff, which we can also get from making all type of fruits cake, which is much more easier to make and much more resource efficient instead of those end-game recipes. (can simply pluck all the resources needed which naturally spawn in the world, basically just fruits, wheat, sugar and water), therefore almost no point in making the end-game recipe as well, (of course other than if we just wanna messing around in the kitchen). Easier to just make the fruit cakes.

 

3. meat stew is still OP. still render all the starvations recipes pale in comparison. still the most ultimate food of all the available foods.

*cough..wellness.. *cough ....

 

4. can make the working fridge be upgradable into a lockable container ? have a case that all my 12 meat stew got stolen from my fridge, well my fridge half-exposed in the open for my farmer npc later.

 

5. Starvation ration canned food now increase 0.2 wellness, ummm... still pointless to make i think. might easier to make beef jerky instead for long journey, which gave 0.1 wellness per-unit, never see it getting spoiled, and we get 7 beef jerkies per 2 raw meat.

 

and considering in the planned A17 update, later the wellness system is gonna be removed, we can conclude that we can forget whatever i said above and just go back to sleep.

 

thanks for reading btw xd

Edited by father123
typo (see edit history)
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