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Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

Developer Discussions: Alpha 17  

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  1. 1. Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

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The idea is simple, link few doors/garage doors/hatch/drawbridge to electricity system

 

hooking a motion detector up to the drawbridge was one of the first things i wanted to do with the electricity system.

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This backpack thing is that it teases many players. With few ppl that play around a lot (1000+ hours) we were thinking of different types of player characters with upgradable perks. Such as bigger backpack or more stamina. Or beer resistanse.

 

Lets say we have 3 types - a looter/scavanger, marine, medic/farmer. It will mess and both add and remove good stuff from the game but it`s what could be best way to add bigger backpack without destroying experience in MP/PVP

In SP - god I hope we have at least an upgrade or a lootable bigger (very rare) backpack. Or a pickup truck.

 

How about at least having larger storage / backpacks / baskets be game configurables? Then the default could be kept the default, while some servers / players could choose to cater to scavengers. Kind of like LCB size, drop-on-death/exit and such being configurable.

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Someone mentioned BM's?

 

...oh. Blood moons.

 

Um, they need work, but as many times as they've changed since they we're introduced, I've no doubt they'll change again.

 

Let's bitch about them in beta.

 

(Or will that be too late?)

 

Possibly yes. And I wouldn't say bitching as they do have a place in SP, but I havent seen very many even discuss the BM on a MP until recently now that people are getting knee deep into gamestages and Day 200 plus. Sure there are other more important things, but its important we don't push EVERY conversation to "lets wait until Beta" because Beta is usually feature locked and balancing time. And BM on MP servers is something that needs discussing BEFORE being feature locked.

 

And Im not sure what's being discussed is specifically balancing. A scheduled event that occurs within a time frame of a countdown is a bad idea for an always running environment simply because it punishes anyone who doesn't log in for hours a day. That kind of requirement leads to frustration in a survival game setting. It transcends progression. Mathematically you only have a set time to prepare and for those who do not have that kind of time it makes server play much more restrictive. It takes AWAY freedom of choice (something I know you are a champion of) because from the second you log in if you aren't on for the full 7 hours then you MUST farm and build specifically for this one event. Where is the fun in that, especially if you log in 2 days before the event and are in scramble mode. Im certain you and I agree that being shoe horned into repair and farm mode every night you log in to play is most definitely restricting and not fun.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

i do wish the hordes were a nightly thing, like is feeding time.. and the blood moons were monthly.

 

I like the monthly idea. It gives people time plus if balanced correctly with gamestages that monthly visit could be absolute destruction.

Edited by JaxTeller718 (see edit history)
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TBH (and this is just my opinion) some elements of the game needs to be grounded/based on reality or it just starts to get silly and can no longer be taken seriously. It's just a matter of how far you feel it should be stretched for better game play. I don't think anyone is trying to push that we can't carry nothing more than 1 or 2 items.

I'm in the camp that at least some form of "Item management" needs to be in the game and having a 72 slot bag is a bad thing... (imo) You shouldn't be able to carry your whole base in your backpack and you're just going to need to prioritize what you should or shouldn't take.

 

So yeah, the "Reality" argument should be pitted against "game play" a lot in this type of game.

 

The problem here is that we have irreconcilable differences about which camps we are in.

 

I'm in the camp that would like larger storage, and particularly larger mobile storage. I find it unrealistic that we'd be able to be level 200 and build out own skyscrapers with fully automated turret defenses and nobody has managed to salvage a 24 foot box truck or a semi tractor in order to ship piles of stuff in between bases. Which is not to say that I want to see those kinds of player-driven vehicles added to the game, I'd be happy with a mega-mini-bike-storage and some suspension of disbelief. But from a gameplay perspective I don't like having to choose between abandoning bases with all kinds of stuff in them vs. doing a dozen runs across the map to ferry stuff.

 

If you wanted to fit this into the existing game without increasing the amount of scavenging that users could do, then maybe just some way of dropping off items in storage at traders and transferring them between traders. Then you ferry stuff to a trader, have it "shipped" across the map (imagine fleets of brown UPS trucks in the background), and then can pick it up at another trade all the way across the map and ferry it to your new base. As long as you build somewhat close to traders, then its not too hard to ferry lots of stuff around. But then you can't hit a town with 2,000 slots of storage open and strip it to the bone in one pass.

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i do wish the hordes were a nightly thing, like is feeding time.. and the blood moons were monthly.

 

Set your game option to feral and zombies will gps to you at night. There are already wandering hordes on some nights but a lot of times they just run past without engaging. But if you set the game mode to feral any wandering hordes and any zeds spawning in the area will actively hunt you until the sun rises every night.

 

I believe you can change the days for Bloodmoon in the xmls from 7, 14, 21, 28, etc. to 30, 60, 90, 120 etc. At least you could in earlier iterations.

Edited by Roland (see edit history)

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Set your game option to feral and zombies will gps to you at night. There are wandering hordes but a lot of times they just run past. But if you set the game mode to feral any wandering hordes and any zeds spawning in the area will actively hunt you until the sun rises.

 

I believe you can change the days for Bloodmoon in the xmls from 7, 14, 21, 28, etc. to 30, 60, 90, 120. At least you could in earlier iterations.

 

Thank you, I'll check this out. For me the game seems to move too fast. and the moon cycle is a week long.. lol. feels weird

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I'd turn off BM entirely

 

That would make fertilizer a lot tougher to create....

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when will we get shopping carts? i mean, that seems like a beginner item. limited storage with mobility and it is restricted to only asphalt or actual blocks. and a squeaky shopping cart will draw attention, so it could be balanced. you want mobile storage, but you take the risk of getting noticed and you have to stick to roads, can take it across ground.

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Thank you, I'll check this out. For me the game seems to move too fast. and the moon cycle is a week long.. lol. feels weird

 

Be careful though. In the past there was a bug that would make it so wandering hordes would run during the day if the game was set to feral. Not sure if they fixed it or not. Its not so bad but can give you quite a fright when you see a bunch of bikers come over the hill running towards you at full speed... :)

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The problem here is that we have irreconcilable differences about which camps we are in.

 

I'm in the camp that would like larger storage, and particularly larger mobile storage. I find it unrealistic that we'd be able to be level 200 and build out own skyscrapers with fully automated turret defenses and nobody has managed to salvage a 24 foot box truck or a semi tractor in order to ship piles of stuff in between bases. Which is not to say that I want to see those kinds of player-driven vehicles added to the game, I'd be happy with a mega-mini-bike-storage and some suspension of disbelief. But from a gameplay perspective I don't like having to choose between abandoning bases with all kinds of stuff in them vs. doing a dozen runs across the map to ferry stuff.

 

If you wanted to fit this into the existing game without increasing the amount of scavenging that users could do, then maybe just some way of dropping off items in storage at traders and transferring them between traders. Then you ferry stuff to a trader, have it "shipped" across the map (imagine fleets of brown UPS trucks in the background), and then can pick it up at another trade all the way across the map and ferry it to your new base. As long as you build somewhat close to traders, then its not too hard to ferry lots of stuff around. But then you can't hit a town with 2,000 slots of storage open and strip it to the bone in one pass.

 

Your suggestion has pretty much solved part of the issue and a good compromise to both sides of the coin. Why not have a delivery service in the game? Why not have the player go to a trader and "purchase" a moving service that will move your storage? You wouldn't need to have a backpack any larger than you have now and ppl would still have the "Item management" aspect of the game as well. Plus you give the trader another use in the game.

But just giving the player a "carry all" bag? no ty.

 

edit: in fact, I would be totally for a delivery service in the game just for the fact, now it wouldn't be free and ppl would need to work for that service... Plus Hal has a really cool mod doing just that >.>

Edited by Tin (see edit history)

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The problem here is that we have irreconcilable differences about which camps we are in.

 

Not completely irreconcilable. I like your idea of having massive mobile storage options gated to > level 150 as an abstraction of what you mentioned as far as trucks etc. For that point of the game where you have conquered the survival aspect and are wanting to do large projects of excavation or building it makes sense. I just don't like it for the early and mid game when you should be forced to choose this or that. Come back for a second trip or not. Most complaints I see are not for when they are level 150 it is for when they are level 5 and they want to carry all their tools, and changes of clothes, and food and water, and several weapon options, AND be able to clear a town of goods without having to make more than a couple of trips.

 

Someone was just recently complaining that cans of water aren't stackable to 15 like the bottled water is because they wanted to take several to stay hydrated but also wanted the slots for other stuff. That's some good tough decision making that can have lethal consequences if the wrong choice is made and things go sideways. Being able to carry everything early in the game wrecks such choices. Now I get that some people don't want to play a game where they have to make tough choices and have to struggle but their preferences should be a mod since what they aren't enjoying is the genre that this game was advertised as being. It's like buying a Daytona 500 style racing game and then asking for them to remove the track and make it cross country because its more interesting. Maybe so, but it won't be a Daytona 500 racing game any longer.

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I made this suggestion before, but I'll put it here again.

 

For mid-late game tools we have the Auger (mining), Chain Saw (wood), and the Nail Gun (building/repair); however we have nothing for dismantling. My suggestion is to have a Power Drill that we can collect the parts and build; case, motor, parts, and we can use the same battery as the nail gun.

 

You can then add in a battery charger to hook up to the electrical system. Using the Nail Gun for repairs or the Power Drill for dismantling will decrease the charge on the battery. The battery would then be removed from the tool and added to a slot in the charger.

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You were but my muse Meganoth. I understand you were not wanting to carry your kitchen sink around with you. :)

 

But I do think the current backpack size is good for the basic unmodded game.

 

Sorry Roland, I don't agree. I don't want it doubled, but a extra row would be good to have. I forgot to write down what I carried as I moved from the worthless town I spawned near to the one I hope will be worth living in, but there were several cans of food. Why? I saw one boar on day one and I killed it. I saw on day three a deer and I killed it. Three meat from boar and four from deer. The first town didn't have any gardens but I did get a lot of canned food from the apartment building. Besides the stone, fiber, wood, feathers, cloth, dukes and water, I had yucca juice, bandages, knife I bought at trader, leather, torches, duster, puffer coat, poncho and I found a wrench, fireaxe, pick axe and shovel. Rest was canned food. I saw no wolves, bears or direwolves (which made me happy) and even when in the desert and plains no vultures (which was weird). The tool belt has axe, bow, arrows, knife, frames and torches.

 

We need to have it changed that the books can stack. You can loot the book tower or book store and find five crossbows but each one take up a slot. Books need to stack. Why can't we stack more than 15 jars of water? You can stack a whole lot more of empty jars or jars of murky water, why not boiled water? We need to be able to stack more than 250 feathers also, that would take up less room and give us another slot. TFPs added the mechanical and electrical parts, electrical components, plastic and more that is needed but there was no increase in slots for the items needed to make the new stuff.

 

I don't waste spaces carrying glass, clothes (except for coats and ponchos for the different biomes), lead, brass and other stuff I won't be using in early game. I don't have a gun so don't need to carry items to make bullets. I do keep arrowheads when I find them but if running out of room I scrap them.

I can't remember how many slots there are or how many are in a row, but with all that was added in 15 but no extra slots and now we have to build a chem station, workbench we need that one extra row to carry needed items.

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They also seem to have a habit of killing out stuff I love so uh no thank you on them doing that to 7 days.

 

I know Amazon helps a lot with their engine, trying to get it main stream. They helped Star Citizen convert.

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A16 :smile-new:- MY favorite update to date. See you on the tube for A17 madmole!

 

edit: unpopular opinion, I am for the mechanical keyboard

Edited by M4ALEX (see edit history)

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I made this suggestion before, but I'll put it here again.

 

For mid-late game tools we have the Auger (mining), Chain Saw (wood), and the Nail Gun (building/repair); however we have nothing for dismantling. My suggestion is to have a Power Drill that we can collect the parts and build; case, motor, parts, and we can use the same battery as the nail gun.

 

You can then add in a battery charger to hook up to the electrical system. Using the Nail Gun for repairs or the Power Drill for dismantling will decrease the charge on the battery. The battery would then be removed from the tool and added to a slot in the charger.

 

A sawzall would be a more appropriate demo tool. I agree though, a power demo tool would be nice.

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Its not so bad but can give you quite a fright when you see a bunch of bikers come over the hill running towards you at full speed... :)

 

You sound like you have plenty of experience in this field, is this an experience from real life? I hear that's what happens when you piss off Hells Angels.:smile-new:

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are you kidding? nitrate is everywhere. one map I was on by day 3 i had mined 30 nodes. and it is dropped from rock, gravel, and underground ores like candy on Halloween. I find it mainly in the plains area. it super common there.

 

seed name?!!?

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The problem here is that we have irreconcilable differences about which camps we are in.

 

I'm in the camp that would like larger storage, and particularly larger mobile storage. I find it unrealistic that we'd be able to be level 200 and build out own skyscrapers with fully automated turret defenses and nobody has managed to salvage a 24 foot box truck or a semi tractor in order to ship piles of stuff in between bases. Which is not to say that I want to see those kinds of player-driven vehicles added to the game, I'd be happy with a mega-mini-bike-storage and some suspension of disbelief. But from a gameplay perspective I don't like having to choose between abandoning bases with all kinds of stuff in them vs. doing a dozen runs across the map to ferry stuff.

 

If you wanted to fit this into the existing game without increasing the amount of scavenging that users could do, then maybe just some way of dropping off items in storage at traders and transferring them between traders. Then you ferry stuff to a trader, have it "shipped" across the map (imagine fleets of brown UPS trucks in the background), and then can pick it up at another trade all the way across the map and ferry it to your new base. As long as you build somewhat close to traders, then its not too hard to ferry lots of stuff around. But then you can't hit a town with 2,000 slots of storage open and strip it to the bone in one pass.

 

 

Actually, I think a large vehicle with large storage is just what's called for. I agree with Roland that big ol backpacks would kill some of the fun decision making aspects of the game. However there's a real need for game play improvement when it comes to moving bases or large quantities of loot from one place to another. I almost never stay in the same base that I start the game in. And it becomes an incredibly tedious and laborious task to move things. On top of that, I'd be awesome if we could have some moving truck of a sort that we could eventually clear paths between traders to make large trade runs after having spent a week looting.

 

* Expensive Part list (gating)

* Rare Part list (gating)

* Extremely High Fuel Consumption (Limit usage to important large tasks)

* Destroy-able (requires defending and/or turrets added even in motion)

* Wandering Horde Attraction (It's gonna be loud, so yeah, zombies)

* Large vehicle, may require road clearing to utilize.

 

Right there. A boat load of gating. Limited usability. Good luck on early/mid game usage. High Risk (have fun picking up the stuff that dumps out if it's destroyed, if stuff dumps out).

 

Would be cool if TFP got things tweaked so that players could sit on top of an armored truck, moving van/truck, or something like that and do the whole run and gun keeping some type of vehicle like this safe. Totally Mad Max stuff here guys. :-p

 

With all that said... There's bigger fish to fry than this stuff IMO.

 

AI

Water

RWG

More Goals (Bandits/NPCs/Quests)

Electricity Improvements

Sleeper Volume Improvements

More Zombie Variety

More Prefab (POI) Variety

etc etc etc.

 

Storage is completely functional right now. Would put it on a back burner for now if I were TFP.

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The problem here is that we have irreconcilable differences about which camps we are in.

 

I'm in the camp that would like larger storage, and particularly larger mobile storage. I find it unrealistic that we'd be able to be level 200 and build out own skyscrapers with fully automated turret defenses and nobody has managed to salvage a 24 foot box truck or a semi tractor in order to ship piles of stuff in between bases. Which is not to say that I want to see those kinds of player-driven vehicles added to the game, I'd be happy with a mega-mini-bike-storage and some suspension of disbelief. But from a gameplay perspective I don't like having to choose between abandoning bases with all kinds of stuff in them vs. doing a dozen runs across the map to ferry stuff.

 

If you wanted to fit this into the existing game without increasing the amount of scavenging that users could do, then maybe just some way of dropping off items in storage at traders and transferring them between traders. Then you ferry stuff to a trader, have it "shipped" across the map (imagine fleets of brown UPS trucks in the background), and then can pick it up at another trade all the way across the map and ferry it to your new base. As long as you build somewhat close to traders, then its not too hard to ferry lots of stuff around. But then you can't hit a town with 2,000 slots of storage open and strip it to the bone in one pass.

 

Not completely irreconcilable. I like your idea of having massive mobile storage options gated to > level 150 as an abstraction of what you mentioned as far as trucks etc. For that point of the game where you have conquered the survival aspect and are wanting to do large projects of excavation or building it makes sense. I just don't like it for the early and mid game when you should be forced to choose this or that. Come back for a second trip or not. Most complaints I see are not for when they are level 150 it is for when they are level 5 and they want to carry all their tools, and changes of clothes, and food and water, and several weapon options, AND be able to clear a town of goods without having to make more than a couple of trips.

 

Someone was just recently complaining that cans of water aren't stackable to 15 like the bottled water is because they wanted to take several to stay hydrated but also wanted the slots for other stuff. That's some good tough decision making that can have lethal consequences if the wrong choice is made and things go sideways. Being able to carry everything early in the game wrecks such choices. Now I get that some people don't want to play a game where they have to make tough choices and have to struggle but their preferences should be a mod since what they aren't enjoying is the genre that this game was advertised as being. It's like buying a Daytona 500 style racing game and then asking for them to remove the track and make it cross country because its more interesting. Maybe so, but it won't be a Daytona 500 racing game any longer.

 

U-haul trucks for temporary usage. Then there is PODS, a steel shipping container that gets dropped off in your driveway then you pack it up and then they come and ship to your new house. Just make a temporary storage unit just for moving base. Should be expensive but not heavy in farming materials, maybe should cost 20k+ payable to the newly added travel agent at the trader complex.

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I like the idea of a BM but not every 7 Days, 7 DTD has to do with the Virus & finding an antidote. Maybe once a month or 3 months game time, just have the BM make the ZEDS go CRAZY & not make a bee line to your base to destroy it. I do not want my player or base to be a ZED Magnet.

I like the concept of a BM but would like to change how it is implemented or to turn it off IE: T/F.

I want the ZEDS AI to control the game based on my actions in the game. What good is ZED AI & STEALTH implementation when we are a ZED MAGNET. This has been a problem ever since A6 when our bases were constantly getting destroyed. Remember going to towns & the ZEDS completely tore it up before you even got there. That has been the problem the whole time & the BM in my opinion has just complicated the problem.

Until the ZEDS AI & the PLAYERS ACTIONS that interact with that AI is fixed & working properly I think the BM should be on the back burner.

The PLAYER or his BASE can not be the magnet that draws a ZED, the actions of the player has to be the trigger to attract ZEDS.

 

 

BM mechanics targeting your player is fine. If you don't want your base attacked, don't hide in base.

 

IMO, the only problem with the BM mechanics is that 7 days @ 22:00 is too predictable. Predictable is boring. Random Blood Moon occurrences would be much better.

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okay I'm back and not much talk on this thread

https://7daystodie.com/forums/showthread.php?74084-Developer-Diary-Alpha-17!!!&p=734430&viewfull=1#post734430

except a comment from Darkfoxx117 Thanks Darkfox

 

Well onto some other matters I have bolstered concerns about in other threads

 

4. balance balance balance.... okay I have changed more xml's in this alpha build than any other previously 36 different files and over 1,500 different xml's. mainly because of balance.

Lets start off with blocks the cost to make vs the cost to repair them.

I'll use flagstone and cobblestone as an example

flagstone cost 3 cobblestone to make to repair if damaged below 100% cost to repair 5 cobblestone.

upgrade flag to cobblestone block cost total 12 cobblestone if damage is lower than 100% cost to repair 15 cobblestone.

It should Never cost more to repair than to build a block so I changed my repair percentage from 100 per item to 300 per item.

Yes I know you can destroy it all the way and get some mats back than make it a new again but really this is just a time sink.

If this is the way you want it than remove repairing all together.

But since it is in the game it should remain cheaper to repair.

 

4.a. balance again what is going on with the skills vs tools vs mats return?

Can you all sit down figure out what it cost to make everything then figure that to be a 100% total of max tools and skills as a return.

After that work backwards and figure out the starting mats percentage and the increments per tool and skill.

We have had discussion's on this point over the past few months and figure it would provably be better to separate tools into speed and stamina cost and the skills as the material costs.

There seems to be too much cross over and the returns eventually become much greater the the cost to make the items.

 

4.b. Hordes and their progression being equal through out all (meaning wandering, screamer, Bloodmoon, and sleeper hordes)

Really it becomes ridiculous in later stages where it is all feral runners and irradiated everywhere.

I can see this being a major issue on servers for new players especially the sleepers, making it impossible to loot anything with just a bow and club.

The constant ramp up is a bit much in later stages of the game.

I understand wanting to make it harder as you progress but the predictable constant running bullet sponges does not seem to be the answer.

Here is something else I changed every single horde spawn in the game I gave percentages of being feral/irradiated vs normal and mix and matched them so that later stages weren't as predictable.

Bloodmoon and screamer horde settings changed to sometimes I would get walkers and a few runners or irradiated and sometimes I would get just runners sometimes I would get just walkers etc.

Sleeper setting mostly I edit out a lot of feral and irradiated and added more walker types throughout mid to late stages and I gave a .001% of a feral or irradiated being spawned inside a POI.

Who wants to go loot when every single sleeper spawn is either a feral or irradiated. It just doesn't work for looting purposes especially for servers. Lets give the new comers and weekend warrior players a fighting chance to get loot.

Plus there is always that 1 or 2 items you can never get and are searching forever to find. Atleast that is always the way it is for me.

 

4.c. Wolves (reg. and Dire) dogs and snakes and vultures Lets tone down the volumes they spawn in please I do not need to turn around every 2minutes and see one of these nearby.

I know they are new features and like all Dev's you want to say hey look at this look what we made cool right and then you go overboard and have them everywhere.

When in all seriousness these things should be fairly sparse to create a more "OH CRAP" moment instead of mass populating them to be a novelty and an annoyance.

So i changed the spawn rates I removed the invisible animal hack and added all animals to both friendly and enemy columns eliminating some from certain biomes and lowering percentages of them spawning. I raised the chicken and rabbit percentages throughout except for the snow biome. no chickens and very few rabbits here

Why? Because I hardly notice these animals unless they are on the roads or in the snow area and it was the only way to balance everything out with the way the xml is coded now.

 

Okay I rambled on as per usual and am once again going to leave you all to comment or not and chew on these things for a bit.

I'll return and add more later I do not want to write a complete list as it would provably take up 5 pages.

Edited by Wardronex (see edit history)

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Maybe extend modding ability?

add option to adding own models, script.

Let us to add blocks more then 2047.

Add new classes like car or something flying. Mining cart.

Extend attak\defence type like energy, electric, fire, etc.

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Maybe extend modding ability?

add option to adding own models, script.

Let us to add blocks more then 2047.

Add new classes like car or something flying. Mining cart.

Extend attak\defence type like energy, electric, fire, etc.

 

And...

 

Please provide a way to track and query a damage source via a buff that's being applied. i.e. when I'm hit, who hit me, and does my attacker have XYZ buff?? Where XYZ would be the name of the buff.

 

And...

 

It'd be nice to have the same for a target. i.e. when I hit someone, who am I hitting, and does my target have a XYZ buff? Where XYZ would be the name of the buff.

 

And then more BuffIf functionality. Seems very limited right now.

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Storage is completely functional right now. Would put it on a back burner for now if I were TFP.

 

Oh it is. In fact it's not even on the back burner of the main stove. It's on a rusty old burner on the back porch that is connected to an empty propane tank and the regulator probably needs replacing as well...

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