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Developer Discussions: Alpha 17


Roland

Developer Discussions: Alpha 17  

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  1. 1. Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

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It's not bad. Especially if you play with a clan or squad.

 

It would be nice to see smaller RWG maps that force more conflict. It would awesome to have really small maps that are like one chunk and game options that allow all skills to be maxed from the start and only crafted loot (weapons, wood blocks, etc.) to be generated. Add some game modes like deathmatch, CTF, and battle royale with timed games and score boards at the end. Then you can get some 15-30 minute PvP games in. I always thought that 7D2D could do a fun battle royale with spawning hordes of fast special zombies as the closing in death ring.

 

I allways love the pvp on 7dtd over other games because you had to grind for it and be tactical about it, finding bases is also fun. as well as the reward for raiding nice items since are not so easy to find . the thing that could be reduced is the maximum height of the map. to like 70-80 up from the ground level and -20 in ground. and a 7-10km cap square will work with tweaked lood spawn times.

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Turrets dont work like that atm. most likely you will drain first the turrets then you will use it to pass into the base over the moat that is the main defence atm. Most of the wasted time while raiding is making the jump from outside inside because you need to destroy blocks with a shotgun.

 

Could be fixed with a cap on player jump range like 4 blocks max then you stop gliding no matter what, falling damage as % so after certain distance you would die no matter what. And make the gyro very low hp so it can be shoot down in like 5-10 shots something.

 

You don't think a couple of autoturrrets would shred a gryocopter, that is if they give it reasonable damage?

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Removed the line about SP being removed and unified with MP. Who knew that one line would cause so much angst. So now all it reads is that the Pause feature works in MP as long as you are playing solo. Nothing but good news to make everyone happy.

On Steam there was a thread about it that quickly resolved with the following text (which I included when I pinned a link to the Developer Diary recently)

Stealing my own reply on this issue from another thread:

SP is not removed!

It is just a part of the MP Options set now.

It is essentially a MENU change.

 

Behind the scenes SP and MP were the same. Look in your logs right now to see the game starts a server and you join that server when playing SP.

The 2 options were redundant and caused an issue for migrating between SP and MP if one wanted. Now it will be easy to decide "Hey, I don't want to play alone, but I want to continue this save. Change number of players." OR "I'm tired of playing with others but my base is cool and want to continue this game alone. Change number of players back to 1"

 

The only difference now is that you Choose 1 player rather than the SurvivalSP and you can change your mind anytime you want.

 

Yes, pause will work when you are playing alone.

 

I hope this alleviates any concerns.

 

BTW - here is my own not real code interpretation of the change as described:

Old: If GameType = SurvivalSP then do stuff (ex allow pause)

New: If GamePlayerCount = 1 then do stuff (ex allow pause)

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@deadmole: I want to clarify, my "I laughed" wasn't from what you said, it was from what MM said that you referring to about a joke. I took it as one, but hey, I like to have fun. =)

 

The fact you laughed at something that wasn't meant as a joke and wouldn't have been funny if it were one got me a little confused I must admit, hehe.

 

For one no one ever said it would have a story mode before release. Kickstarter even specifically says it might be added post release.

 

I honestly do not know or care what was said prior alpha phase since I got the game last year. All I know is there's going to be a main quest involving some character named Noah and The Duke with factions and whatnot. That's all I actually do care to see before the game is released.

 

@trolland: Yeh he may be trolling, but I'm not sure you realize the level of frustration "out here" away from the spotlight and the knowledge you get from going to jira... people be frustrated homie. Not saying they're justified, but it's true, they really are. Communication is horrible, and I think you know it. :)

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not frustrated but simply concerned about the fact the game doesn't seem nearly finished but will be moving to beta soon. I wouldn't want 7DTD to end up unfinished since it has so much potential.

 

I am expected to ahh... communicate with the player-base. Or somesuch.

 

And communication on forums truly is horrible, it's like worse than the zombie apocalypse for sure haha.

 

You seem stuck on this idea that 7DtD needs to be like a Bethesda game. Why? Doing everything that Fallout does, plus everything Minecraft and The Walking Dead do, wouldn't just be derivative: it'd be a mess.

 

There are other kinds of games out there, and in some of them a main storyline is not important or even expected. That's okay. Sandbox games in particular can work - can be considered complete - with or without them. Sure, I think adding story could enrich the game. But to insist it's requisite is to ignore the possibility of a different kind of game.

 

Because MM is always going on about Skyrim and Fallout and that many ideas were taken from those games? I say the more content the better. It certainly doesn't need to have everything from all those games, but an RPG without a main quest does seem lackluster.

 

Sure, there are. But they do have a main quest/storyline anyway except perhaps the original Minecraft and honestly that game always seemed lackluster to me. I actually never played it because it lacks depth. I started playing 7DTD because it's more complex and realistic.

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Bottom line is we're getting more vehicles, we're getting quests, we're getting bandits, we're getting a story, so what's the rush?

 

There's no rush really, quite the contrary actually. I know MM wasn't serious about the game coming out in 2030, but I don't think it's anywhere near beta ready.

 

Hmm interesting. I have Minecraft. I just started it. I dont SEE a story mode? Did i do it wrong?

 

OHHH you mean the SEPERATE game called Story Mode. Yeah. That wasn't in the Kickstarter soooo it really doesn't apply. Nowhere in Minecraft do i see a story mode option so again, theory nuked.

 

Damn it Roland was right. You ARE baiting hooks. Let me pull this one out. Sorry Roland.

 

I wasn't trolling at all. My point which you missed entierly is they even released a story mode for Minecraft afterall. We know 7DTD will have one as well and I was just saying it would be lacking not having it before release.

 

Maybe Telltale is planning to do a story mode some day. Of course that would mean a separate purchase and at least a 5-year wait...

 

Minecraft Release Date: May 2009

Minecraft Story Mode Release Date: October 2015

 

So, it took them 5 years to come up with a story mode for a game that supposedly no one cared to have a story in. So much time and efforts wasted, eh?

 

If I get you correctly, you are advocating staying in alpha. No contest from me there.

 

Ask Atari if they ever would release their new Pong game without the main storyline in it :smile-new:

 

If it wasn't clear already then I will attempt and clarify my point once and for all: the game doesn't look nearly finished and I can hardly see it moving to beta anytime soon.

 

You bet, I mean if there's no story mode in a ping pong game I would certainly consider it unfinished. There HAS to be a campaign taking you on a world tour at least. Not. But I do expect a main quest from an RPG game.

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There's no rush really, quite the contrary actually. I know MM wasn't serious about the game coming out in 2030, but I don't think it's anywhere near beta ready.

 

 

 

I wasn't trolling at all. My point which you missed entierly is they even released a story mode for Minecraft afterall. We know 7DTD will have one as well and I was just saying it would be lacking not having it before release.

 

 

 

So, it took them 5 years to come up with a story mode for a game that supposedly no one cared to have a story in. So much time and efforts wasted, eh?

 

 

 

If it wasn't clear already then I will attempt and clarify my point once and for all: the game doesn't look nearly finished and I can hardly see it moving to beta anytime soon.

 

You bet, I mean if there's no story mode in a ping pong game I would certainly consider it unfinished. There HAS to be a campaign taking you on a world tour at least. Not. But I do expect a main quest from an RPG game.

 

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I wasn't trolling at all. My point which you missed entierly is they even released a story mode for Minecraft afterall. We know 7DTD will have one as well and I was just saying it would be lacking not having it before release.

 

Since you claim to be serious here is the huge hole in your argument. Minecraft released as a finished game in 2009 and its story mode came out 6 years after release by an entirely different company. You keep using this example to somehow prove that story mode should come out before release but it is a very poor example for that argument.

 

 

So, it took them 5 years to come up with a story mode for a game that supposedly no one cared to have a story in. So much time and efforts wasted, eh?

 

Not wasted at all. It came out 6 years after the core game was released as a complete game with no story mode. I like Minecraft story mode. It's pretty funny and the first episode is free (that's the only one I've played). But WE are all saying that its okay for story mode to come out after release and YOU keep saying it should come out before release and then you use an example that is the poster child for a story mode releasing long after release.

 

 

 

If it wasn't clear already then I will attempt and clarify my point once and for all: the game doesn't look nearly finished and I can hardly see it moving to beta anytime soon.

 

You bet, I mean if there's no story mode in a ping pong game I would certainly consider it unfinished. There HAS to be a campaign taking you on a world tour at least. Not. But I do expect a main quest from an RPG game.

 

 

Thanks for clarifying your opinion. In my opinion once everything they are putting into A17 is there, the game will be nearly feature complete and if they decide to shift some of the remaining features to be DLCs after release then that is perfectly fine. You even agree with that based on your minecraft story mode example. I probably wouldn't want to wait 6 years but if you like that timetable you'll be ecstatic if the story mode comes out next year sometime.

 

You say the game doesn't look nearly ready to go to beta. What do you mean by that?

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Congratulations to the development team for so many promising additions. I'm impressed by the gyrocopter, although I don't really see much of a point right now. Sure, a 'cool' factor but I can't see it adding any real game content.

 

Not that this opinion is dissing the developers in anyway, but I would prefer them to add more survival/challenge methods to the game rather than 'cool" factors.

 

Buuuut, I might be missing out on some big game plan that only they know where the use of these extra vehicles is paramount.

 

But if no big plan that needs them, I personally think the gyrocopter can come for $2 on DLC, same as the hog and other vehicles and animals. We already have a good way to get around in the game with the minibike and animals are doing their job in the game. Polish it up (which I see you have done) with better modelling, and essential transportation has been done. More would be great, but not at the expense of content.

 

FUN PIMPS: you've got such a great marketing platform through this game and you're not using it to capitalise financially. Or do you just love us enough that you're including the DLCs for us now?

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Congratulations to the development team for so many promising additions. I'm impressed by the gyrocopter, although I don't really see much of a point right now. Sure, a 'cool' factor but I can't see it adding any real game content.

 

Not that this opinion is dissing the developers in anyway, but I would prefer them to add more survival/challenge methods to the game rather than 'cool" factors.

 

Buuuut, I might be missing out on some big game plan that only they know where the use of these extra vehicles is paramount.

 

But if no big plan that needs them, I personally think the gyrocopter can come for $2 on DLC, same as the hog and other vehicles and animals. We already have a good way to get around in the game with the minibike and animals are doing their job in the game. Polish it up (which I see you have done) with better modelling, and essential transportation has been done. More would be great, but not at the expense of content.

 

FUN PIMPS: you've got such a great marketing platform through this game and you're not using it to capitalise financially. Or do you just love us enough that you're including the DLCs for us now?

 

There isn't many games I'd support DLC for. This is one of the few exceptions.

 

POI Pack -- Check

Vehicle Pack -- Check

Terrain Pack or World Type Packs -- Check

Random Loot Crates for 99 cents -- Check -- just kidding, I'd report them to the BBB for this one - even I have my limits :smile-new:

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Since you claim to be serious here is the huge hole in your argument. Minecraft released as a finished game in 2009 and its story mode came out 6 years after release by an entirely different company. You keep using this example to somehow prove that story mode should come out before release but it is a very poor example for that argument.

 

Not wasted at all. It came out 6 years after the core game was released as a complete game with no story mode. I like Minecraft story mode. It's pretty funny and the first episode is free (that's the only one I've played). But WE are all saying that its okay for story mode to come out after release and YOU keep saying it should come out before release and then you use an example that is the poster child for a story mode releasing long after release.

 

Thanks for clarifying your opinion. In my opinion once everything they are putting into A17 is there, the game will be nearly feature complete and if they decide to shift some of the remaining features to be DLCs after release then that is perfectly fine. You even agree with that based on your minecraft story mode example. I probably wouldn't want to wait 6 years but if you like that timetable you'll be ecstatic if the story mode comes out next year sometime.

 

You say the game doesn't look nearly ready to go to beta. What do you mean by that?

 

As I already said, I am dead serious. I didn't mean to engage into an argument about Minecraft but since it's too late for that, I will only point out that they added a story mode because it was lacking in the first place. And of course, releasing it afterwards was much more profitable. I certainly wish that's not going to happen with 7 Days.

 

Of course it wasn't, that was my point, excuse the sarcasm here haha. They released a story mode because people wanted one, even if everyone keep saying that's not the main interest of the game. I'm trying to say it should have been in the game all along. You see, the thing is I wasn't using Minecraft as an example of how it should be done, but how it shouldn't be happening instead.

 

We shall see then, but since there wasn't many major changes for a few alphas as I already said, I honestly doubt there will be so much more content and most importantly: some serious bug fixes. The game is actually broken as of now, which is fine for an alpha, but not for a beta.

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@dead

 

I think there's a thing that causes the misconception you have, and it's not your fault.

 

Throughout my tenure here there has been an understanding of "in pimps we trust." The problem with this is, 1) you have to be around a very long time through many many alphas to get it, and 2) those of us who DO get it often jump on those that do NOT, causing arguments and whatnot.

 

It's sort of elitist of us.

 

But I also don't see any other way to convey "trust in them" without time passing. We can't share our past experiences of having the /exact same fears/, time and again, only to be proved wrong, time and again. No one would believe it if we did. =)

 

So I say this. Trust in the Pimps. Because really, that's all you can do...

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

Minecraft added a story mode as a cash grab. Period.

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There isn't many games I'd support DLC for. This is one of the few exceptions.

 

POI Pack -- Check

Vehicle Pack -- Check

Terrain Pack or World Type Packs -- Check

Random Loot Crates for 99 cents -- Check -- just kidding, I'd report them to the BBB for this one - even I have my limits :smile-new:

 

I like to support games that I enjoy and encourage their productivity by buying the DLCs. But not a lot of games do deserve it. But you're right in that 7 days does deserve it and it can essentially be added to time and time again with lots of so many new and different Improvements; it would be good for us as the consumers and enjoyers of the game and also The Fun Pimps financially.

 

Which will also incentivize them and allow them to produce more great content.

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@dead

 

I think there's a thing that causes the misconception you have, and it's not your fault.

 

Throughout my tenure here there has been an understanding of "in pimps we trust." The problem with this is, 1) you have to be around a very long time through many many alphas to get it, and 2) those of us who DO get it often jump on those that do NOT, causing arguments and whatnot.

 

It's sort of elitist of us.

 

But I also don't see any other way to convey "trust in them" without time passing. We can't share our past experiences of having the /exact same fears/, time and again, only to be proved wrong, time and again. No one would believe it if we did. =)

 

So I say this. Trust in the Pimps. Because really, that's all you can do...

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

Minecraft added a story mode as a cash grab. Period.

 

I know many of you guys are faithful players who are following the game since even before it came out, but you have to think of new players. If they see a beta release that looks unfinished they won't care about whatever was promised for it. They will just rant at the game for being unfinished.

 

Exactly, it should have been in the game all along, as I was saying. Hey who cares about the story mode, no one is playing a sandbox crafting game for the story right? So let's just release it without one. The thing is people wanted a story mode, otherwise Telltale wouldn't have made so much money from it.

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As I already said, I am dead serious. I didn't mean to engage into an argument about Minecraft but since it's too late for that, I will only point out that they added a story mode because it was lacking in the first place. And of course, releasing it afterwards was much more profitable. I certainly wish that's not going to happen with 7 Days.

 

Gotcha. Sticking to this game there will be a story mode with main quests that reveal the story and in my opinion if that story releases during alpha or if it releases 6 months after the game goes gold those are equally fine outcomes. I also don't want it to take five years.

 

We shall see then, but since there wasn't many major changes for a few alphas as I already said, I honestly doubt there will be so much more content and most importantly: some serious bug fixes. The game is actually broken as of now, which is fine for an alpha, but not for a beta.

 

I think the problem here is defining what is major. I feel many major changes have come over the last few alphas. In fact, every alpha release the game seems a brand new creature and in general superseding the one before it. But it sounds like they haven't been working on the things that are important to you so to you it seems really samey and no big changes.

 

The other problem is that you seem to think the game has to be fixed and polished before it goes to beta. That is simply factually incorrect. The bug fixing, the optimizing, the fleshing out of existing features all happen during beta. That is what beta is for. So yes the game seems unfinished and not ready for release right now. Of course. That's why it shifts into the beta phase of development-- to get it polished and ready for the release.

 

If A17 truly ends up being the last alpha it would mean that for the next few to several months the developers will be fine tuning, balancing, and fixing everything that we already have and not spending much time working to put in a whole new feature. Once the game is optimized and looking like a finished product it could be released as version 1.0

 

Then, any missing features that were promised could then be worked on and released as DLC's. That could include the main quest story mode. Or bandits. Or anything else that didn't quite make the A17 cut. Maybe there will be an A18 before we shift into beta and more features will be implemented before the big bug fix party begins in force.

 

All I'm saying is that I could see A17 being the final alpha version. It's plausible.

 

 

If they see a beta release that looks unfinished they won't care about whatever was promised for it. They will just rant at the game for being unfinished.

 

Yeah, again TFP can't help it if people misunderstand Beta. But then people have been misunderstanding Alpha and ranting about it for the last 4 years too. Pretty soon we will be saying, "It's Beta" to those cute little monsters.

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There isn't many games I'd support DLC for. This is one of the few exceptions.

 

POI Pack -- Check

Vehicle Pack -- Check

Terrain Pack or World Type Packs -- Check

Random Loot Crates for 99 cents -- Check -- just kidding, I'd report them to the BBB for this one - even I have my limits :smile-new:

 

All of this Can be modded

Even if you buy the Content and Put it on your own Dedicated server

you will have to share it to others so they have it..so you essentially just bought it and gave it away

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The entire game can be pirated for that matter. That's not my point.

 

Then DLC wont work

 

The only way for DLC to work is if the Dedicated Server can Push the entire game without a Mod handed out at all...I would even buy all the content then....knowing i can do this.....So far it cant happen...only game so far i seen that pushes everything to the Client is "empyrion" which is essentially the same type of game

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All of this Can be modded

Even if you buy the Content and Put it on your own Dedicated server

you will have to share it to others so they have it..so you essentially just bought it and gave it away

 

Any self respecting DLC will include upgrades to the game engine that can't be covered by a mere mod. Besides, I don't think added-cost DLCs are really TFP's way of doing business (but, obviously, I don't really know for sure). The way they've made 7DTD so far it seems like they prefer to give us a product that is well worth the price of admission and becomes the gift that keeps on giving. They could easily make a crap ton more money after this by making 7DTD2 or some other similar game based on some of what they've made for 7DTD.

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In a game where there are so many different types of gameplay in MP, (PVE, PVP, running certain mods, different settings etc) further splintering the community with paid DLC might not be the way to go. But I'm no optometrist.

 

I always wondered about dlc's in games like this. I am thinking the only things you could get were cosmetic ones or it throws off the whole game for those who won't or can't buy them. For instance if you could buy a complete new vehicle to use on a MP server how would I interact with it if I don't have the dlc. Could I use it? Could you get in it and I not be able to hit you (for pvp game ofc)

I have many other questions about this but just don't have patience to type them all out :)

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Not that this opinion is dissing the developers in anyway, but I would prefer them to add more survival/challenge methods to the game rather than 'cool" factors.

 

Buuuut, I might be missing out on some big game plan that only they know where the use of these extra vehicles is paramount.

 

But if no big plan that needs them, I personally think the gyrocopter can come for $2 on DLC,

 

Well, my theory (obviously) is that they rewrote the underlying vehicle/physics system and generalized it (that was/is the big part). The reason being that the minibike wasn't working as intended, recurring bugs, minibike falling through cracks in the world, ...

 

Now that they have done it, they found out that adding vehicles of different type, even flying, isn't that difficult anymore. So the gyro is just something that comes nearly free after the heavy lifting of streamlining the physics system.

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Gotcha. Sticking to this game there will be a story mode with main quests that reveal the story and in my opinion if that story releases during alpha or if it releases 6 months after the game goes gold those are equally fine outcomes. I also don't want it to take five years.

 

I think the problem here is defining what is major. I feel many major changes have come over the last few alphas. In fact, every alpha release the game seems a brand new creature and in general superseding the one before it. But it sounds like they haven't been working on the things that are important to you so to you it seems really samey and no big changes.

 

The other problem is that you seem to think the game has to be fixed and polished before it goes to beta. That is simply factually incorrect. The bug fixing, the optimizing, the fleshing out of existing features all happen during beta. That is what beta is for. So yes the game seems unfinished and not ready for release right now. Of course. That's why it shifts into the beta phase of development-- to get it polished and ready for the release.

 

If A17 truly ends up being the last alpha it would mean that for the next few to several months the developers will be fine tuning, balancing, and fixing everything that we already have and not spending much time working to put in a whole new feature. Once the game is optimized and looking like a finished product it could be released as version 1.0

 

Then, any missing features that were promised could then be worked on and released as DLC's. That could include the main quest story mode. Or bandits. Or anything else that didn't quite make the A17 cut. Maybe there will be an A18 before we shift into beta and more features will be implemented before the big bug fix party begins in force.

 

All I'm saying is that I could see A17 being the final alpha version. It's plausible.

 

Yeah, again TFP can't help it if people misunderstand Beta. But then people have been misunderstanding Alpha and ranting about it for the last 4 years too. Pretty soon we will be saying, "It's Beta" to those cute little monsters.

 

If we only get a part of the main quest (which we already did with the first objective in A15: finding the trader) before the game is released that does sound incomplete. An RPG going gold without even having the main quest in it doesn't sound like a game that only needs polishing (in beta phase).

 

I played hundreads of hours ever since A14 and it still feels like the same game basically. Same AI, same graphics except for some new textures here and there, same quests (except for the first part of the main quest as I mentioned). Of course there's some interesting features added with every new alphas, but it still plays the same for the most part.

 

Not at all: I'm well aware that beta means feature locked. Meaning that all main features (including the main storyline) are already in the game. We're not talking about bug fixing and polishing here, but broken AI that makes the game a (seriously fun and addictive) mess.

 

The game needs much more than some fine tuning. It's as if you told me DayZ and H1Z1 were going to move to beta soon. Both broken games that doesn't seem nearly ready for beta either.

 

People keep talking about some features like bandits and whatnot that may well be DLC, but I'm talking about some new NPCs (that has custom models, like the new traders) and some solid questing here, which is VITAL to an RPG. Navezgane looks pretty empty without any NPCs to interact with and objectives to follow.

 

I may not be a game developer, but I've done enough reading to know what alpha and beta means, thank you. And yet again, I don't see the game lacking so many important features going into beta anytime soon.

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