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Developer Discussions: Alpha 17


Roland

Developer Discussions: Alpha 17  

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  1. 1. Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

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Couple of things:

 

TLDR! Well, actually I did but didn't want to quote the whole thing.

 

Dude, calm down. NOTHING CHANGED except for some UI settings. You could always turn a SP game into MP, and a MP game into a SP, with a small edit to a file. They just got rid of the UI button to set that setting to 1 and let you do it yourself if you wan't to play SP. Let me say it again, NOTHING ELSE CHANGED. Not the direction TFP was/is headed, not the way you will be able to play the game. NOTHING.

 

You act like instead of that single sentence of SP is now just MP with No. Players set to 1, they announced they scrapped the whole idea of having a story in Navezgane. They didn't. They didn't even hint at doing that.

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Hey Roland, it is not the first time that I see you mentioning Portal Knights. Since it is hard to find any video regarding the matter, can you please tell us a little bit of how water physics functions in that game? Im very curious

 

The water will drain from a basin and fill a lower basin. It spreads as a thin layer that if banked will then start to fill and deepen. It is like Terraria water but in 3d. Pretty amazing what they've done.

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TLDR! Well, actually I did but didn't want to quote the whole thing.

 

Dude, calm down. NOTHING CHANGED except for some UI settings. You could always turn a SP game into MP, and a MP game into a SP, with a small edit to a file. They just got rid of the UI button to set that setting to 1 and let you do it yourself if you wan't to play SP. Let me say it again, NOTHING ELSE CHANGED. Not the direction TFP was/is headed, not the way you will be able to play the game. NOTHING.

 

You act like instead of that single sentence of SP is now just MP with No. Players set to 1, they announced they scrapped the whole idea of having a story in Navezgane. They didn't. They didn't even hint at doing that.

 

I will just reply with the same thing I replied to the other guy, you obviously didn't read that part:

 

It is a problem for finishing safely specific quests you personally want to finish. And this has nothing to do with the possibility to set the game to 1 player, obviously the argument is that since it's now going to be just one single environment, developers won't be able to make quests tailored for solo play and therefore you can't expect actual singleplayer story mode.

 

Don't get me wrong, I WOULD LOVE DEVELOPERS to prove me wrong, that's all I really want now.

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Sure you can still play solo by "freaking setting the amount of players to 1" as Roland says, but that's not my point. Being alone in an empty giant world tailored strictly for multiplayer isn't the same thing as playing alone in the world filled with NPC survivors that keep you company to make sure you don't feel lonely playing alone!

 

My point by saying that was that you were afraid that other players would come in and kill the NPCs that were placed to progress the main story line. I was telling you that you could protect yourself from that by setting the game to 1 player. Again, I think you're imagination got away from you a bit. The sophistication you are hoping for in being able to create a relationship with bots in the game that won't let you feel lonely and will keep you company seems a stretch to me. But, maybe you form attachments easily? I know that being able to turn a wolf into a pet is planned but NPC followers has always been in the realm of "maybe, if we can".

 

 

It is a problem for finishing safely specific quests you personally want to finish. And this has nothing to do with the possibility to set the game to 1 player, obviously the argument is that since it's now going to be just one single environment, developers won't be able to make quests tailored for solo play and therefore you can't expect actual singleplayer story mode.

 

This is wrong because single player vs multiplayer was never the dividing line for the story mode. It has always been Navezgane vs Randomgen. You want to play the story? You select one player and choose Navezgane. You want to play the story with friends? You select 2+ players and choose Navezgane. That is always the way it was planned and there is no change to that plan. Whatever reductions single player might suffer due to multiplayer considerations they are the same as they ever have been.

 

Obviously there's no convincing you of this. You won't be satisfied until the final product comes out and you either feel happy or disappointed with what we get. Based on your expectations I'm predicting disappointed....

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I will just reply with the same thing I replied to the other guy, you obviously didn't read that part:

 

 

 

Don't get me wrong, I WOULD LOVE DEVELOPERS to prove me wrong, that's all I really want now.

 

"It is a problem for finishing safely specific quests you personally want to finish. And this has nothing to do with the possibility to set the game to 1 player, obviously the argument is that since it's now going to be just one single environment, developers won't be able to make quests tailored for solo play and therefore you can't expect actual singleplayer story mode."

 

You still don't get it. The game is ALREADY THAT WAY. The only difference between MP and SP currently is a setting in a file saying 1 player. NOTHING CHANGED except the UI. They basically made it easier to switch between MP and SP to get rid of bugs where the game made the switch accidentally.

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find out the changes unity 2017 will bring.

 

The Unity upgrade is more a quality of life improvement for us like better Unity editor features and Unity engine bug fixes. I doubt you will see much difference from just updating to 2017.

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"It is a problem for finishing safely specific quests you personally want to finish. And this has nothing to do with the possibility to set the game to 1 player, obviously the argument is that since it's now going to be just one single environment, developers won't be able to make quests tailored for solo play and therefore you can't expect actual singleplayer story mode."

 

You still don't get it. The game is ALREADY THAT WAY. The only difference between MP and SP currently is a setting in a file saying 1 player. NOTHING CHANGED except the UI. They basically made it easier to switch between MP and SP to get rid of bugs where the game made the switch accidentally.

 

The point I was trying to make is NOT that the game changed from what it was until now. My point is that from now on it is clear that its singleplayer portion will most likely never expand beyond what is offered by the multiplayer features. And that's sad because it means no singleplayer story mode hinted even in the Kickstarter campaign:

 

MQ5bozQ.jpg

 

Sure you can say they never directly promised an actual singleplayer story, but then what are these hints in the ks image? Just a clever way to get funds from those who would misunderstand this concept in the way that the singleplayer might one day expand into something more than just quest notes and maps and traders who never move their ass? Then I guess "well played" is all that can be said with a sad tone in my voice, because I really fell for it. I really thought that expanded story and mission programming with NPC characters and merchants, NPC controlled safe houses and NPCs voiced by professional voice actors together with what Madmole hinted at during the development regarding feature expansions like NPC factions and their bases, quests from NPCs, companion system was a hint that there would be a rich singleplayer story. Apparently I understood it all wrong, my bad...

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Couple of things:

 

Among the other activities, they should give you quests directly by talking to you, NPC survivors should also help you on your journey like companions / followers known from Skyrim or Fallout. You should be able to take sides, heck you should be able to join NPC factions in their own bases and NPC survivors should help you take down other NPCs like raiders / bandits. In other words the game should give you the impression that in that giant procedurally generated open world filled with brain dead zombies, it's not just you and couple of traders who never really move their ass from their base!

 

 

 

 

Sorry to break it to you, bud.. but what you want is 7 days meets skyrim.

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The point I was trying to make is NOT that the game changed from what it was until now. My point is that from now on it is clear that its singleplayer portion will most likely never expand beyond what is offered by the multiplayer features. And that's sad because it means no singleplayer story mode hinted even in the Kickstarter campaign:

 

MQ5bozQ.jpg

 

Sure you can say they never directly promised an actual singleplayer story, but then what are these hints in the ks image? Just a clever way to get funds from those who would misunderstand this concept in the way that the singleplayer might one day expand into something more than just quest notes and maps and traders who never move their ass? Then I guess "well played" is all that can be said with a sad tone in my voice, because I really fell for it. I really thought that expanded story and mission programming with NPC characters and merchants, NPC controlled safe houses and NPCs voiced by professional voice actors together with what Madmole hinted at during the development regarding feature expansions like NPC factions and their bases, quests from NPCs, companion system was a hint that there would be a rich singleplayer story. Apparently I understood it all wrong, my bad...

 

 

Expanded Story Mission Programming is happening right now. We have the current treasure quests, and will have fetch quests like raiding a grow house to loot pharmaceuticals. It may not be what you wanted, but anything more than what that snippet suggests is all your own doing. They never said anything ever about a SP story "Mode".

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Finally someone understands me. But I was given enough reasons by developers and their hints to form that kind of picture in my head about what this game might become one day.

 

No you weren't. There has never been anything remotely close to that type of story mode even hinted at. That type of story mode wouldn't work very well in even a SP only voxel game. Half the voxels in the game would have to become indestructible to keep you from accidentally destroy the progression even playing solo. Why spend the effort to make a game with everything being destroyable to then introduce something like that?

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MQ5bozQ.jpg

 

 

All of the kickstarter goals should be taken at face value. None of them were written to hint at better stuff. The devs have ended up doing a whole bunch of better stuff than they promised anyway but that was because things turned out so well with funding and with the talent they were able to attract to their staff.

 

Each one of those points you highlighted are in or will be soon but none of them require there to be a rich and rewarding story to go with them. Professional voice acting is in. The merchants use it. Many of the NPCs will use them--most likely just to greet you and then things will go to text based conversation trees and menus.

 

There will be NPC characters who will give out quests. There will be NPC characters who will be bandits that will attack you. NPCs will either belong to the White River Faction or the Duke's faction. There will be safe areas controlled by NPCs. We already know of one future safe zone: The Duke's Casino.

 

Sorry you feel hoodwinked but it wasn't an intentional thing to make a cash grab against those who didn't want to feel lonely playing single player.

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Finally someone understands me. But I was given enough reasons by developers and their hints to form that kind of picture in my head about what this game might become one day.

 

Keep in mind that there could always be a 7DTD2 in the future. I’m not saying that your expectations of game style will be fulfilled. Just that many of us would love to see many of our ‘suggestions’ considered for future content. I really don’t hold TFP up against the wall of ‘player expectation/demands’ and believe it will be my vision of ‘what could be’.

 

It will be what they make it. They are working on a new concept/system and seeing where the code/developer limits are. We are just along for the enjoyment/ride of what ‘currently’ has been placed together. Time will tell what ‘Gold release’ will contain.

 

I’m having fun, even with my own expectations zipping around my skull.

 

Just my 2 cents.

 

~Obuthan

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Maybe a video showcasing the differences between the old single player mode vs the new always online mode.. Sorry, I had to :(..... couldnt help it!

 

The game basically already makes a server on your rig while playing SP already. There's just no reason to have two different branch types anymore nowadays. The only thing we as players are probably going to see is.. nothing!

 

Could be wrong but when playing a SP game in A17 you won't need to go online, at least anymore than what it is now.

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I always hoped for ziplines. They were never a part of the kickstarter goals but I was still hopeful. Then, one day Joel announced they were interested in the idea. About a year later he even showed some preliminary work on ziplines and said they were planned, hopefully for A16. Then A16 came out and ziplines didn't make the cut. Shortly after that, Joel announced that ziplines were being dropped for the foreseeable future and most likely wouldn't be in the game.

 

I was disappointed but that's the way of development. The pimps giveth and the pimps taketh away.

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The game basically already makes a server on your rig while playing SP already. There's just no reason to have two different branch types anymore nowadays. The only thing we as players are probably going to see is.. nothing!

 

Could be wrong but when playing a SP game in A17 you won't need to go online, at least anymore than what it is now.

 

Sorry i was kidding... saw too many posts asking the same question over and over.. good explanation tho! :)

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I always hoped for ziplines. They were never a part of the kickstarter goals but I was still hopeful. Then, one day Joel announced they were interested in the idea. About a year later he even showed some preliminary work on ziplines and said they were planned, hopefully for A16. Then A16 came out and ziplines didn't make the cut. Shortly after that, Joel announced that ziplines were being dropped for the foreseeable future and most likely wouldn't be in the game.

 

I was disappointed but that's the way of development. The pimps giveth and the pimps taketh away.

 

Well, maybe one day modders will make us both happy....

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Well, maybe one day modders will make us both happy....

 

We are eye to eye on that my friend :)

 

 

In fact, with world editing tools and with the conversation trees being accessible, there well may be lots of storylines that will emerge in lots of different maps some of which might not suck....

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The water will drain from a basin and fill a lower basin. It spreads as a thin layer that if banked will then start to fill and deepen. It is like Terraria water but in 3d. Pretty amazing what they've done.

 

Thanks Roland, that is so cool!

If minecraft water scores 5 out of 10, that is a 8 or 9 to me!

 

I wonder how efficient it is for the game to compute such an advanced behavior. For instance 7DTD lags when you collapse big structures. Does PK lag when you have many basins interacting with each other trough multiple streams? Does it work MP?

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