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Developer Discussions: Alpha 17


Roland

Developer Discussions: Alpha 17  

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  1. 1. Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

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Hit point max progression will be governed by the fortitude attribute. We don’t know yet about max stamina progression. General health and wellness will be governed by the new buff system.

 

This will mean that food, drugs, drinks, poisons, prolonged fatigue, etc can all be events that will have a much more realistic effect on our current wellness. We can also get sick and then return to health again.

 

The current wellness system is essentially eat food to gain higher hp and stamina max. Very one-dimensional. The new system will be much more versatile and moddable.

 

This also means that you will no longer be able to power level your hp and stamina maxes using the meat stew/ snow biome meta...

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Yep. Standing on one place to get hungry faster so you can eat food faster so you can get more HP faster... that is nothing but silly.

 

You want to improve your character? You have a currency to spend. Skill points or whatever they end up being called.

Then you decide what is most important to you instead of completely bypassing the cost structure with the above grind.

 

We can have drugs, worn items, or quests/training improve things like HP as well so there are plenty of options for temporary or permanent boni.

But one thing won't happen. You won't get a free ride to awesomeness burning through the 50 stacks of meat in your fridge...

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We're much more quiet for A17 because a lot of the changes going in are system changes that let game features talk to each other, until the new content is created in XML for the new setup, there just isn't much to show. (That and I need to get into the UI bits on it and clean them up)

... <<snipped>> ...

 

So, sometimes you hit a point where you have to tear things down. Oganically growing code becomes very unwieldy the longer it exists and sometimes a rewrite is needed to encompass all the other features that came along after it.

 

/data_dump

 

 

Thanks a bunch for the update. I haven't been on the forums much lately as there seemed to be a lot of tease and little info to go with it. This is some real good info on the "State" of things... kinda. I know you didn't really detail how far along in all of this effort you outlined, but knowing this kind of rework is being, or has been, done, makes much more sense as to why we're in a state of "TBD" for more details.

 

So thanks again for the communication and info. Really appreciate it! :D

 

On a side note, i think everyone can agree that there's been a growing clunkiness in the game. Now that I think of it, if garbage was overly collecting, it would make sense that some of the stuttering in the game could be from garbage collection hitting, especially if manually called. So thanks to you and TFP as a whole for taking the time to do a notable code cleanup and rewrite. It's hard work, hard to swallow, and sometimes hard to justify.

 

Still... When such rewrites come, and at such low level foundations of the game... I smell a nearing Beta phase... :p

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I don't know how I feel about being yelled at from a toilet. But... Done. :p

 

Guppy is fully catheterized now so yelling just fills the bag a bit but none of us feel any ill effects.

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I have yet to find a server with 120 min days. I always assumed Day 49 is when things get interesting for vanilla versions. Modders have changed the game so much that progression means everything even when they try to slow it down, and still they focus on blood moons in feeble attempts at increasing difficulty. I try to ignore the posts that whine about difficulty and becoming too easy too fast, it just shows their ignorance for the game as a whole, its like they learned one way to play the game and cannot fathom there is more than one way. I hope TFP doesnt cater to that class of whiners, it would ruin the game for the rest of us.

 

I am excited for a17, hope it will bring another perspective to gameplay and progression.

 

Also, the inherent danger of listening to forum opinions is that these represent an unproportionally large population of real experts in this game. Catering to them might easily just destroy the game for the casual player. But TFP will know this and find some balance so hopefully in the end people will find a suitable challenge, no matter their background and experience.

I for one would not want to play a game I need to see 10 tutorials for and calculate the best ratios in an excel sheet to master it. Other people will think differently.

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Also, the inherent danger of listening to forum opinions is that these represent an unproportionally large population of real experts in this game. Catering to them might easily just destroy the game for the casual player.

Hah! We know. =)

There is no realistic way to make the game "hard" for players with 1000+ hours. It's like attempting to fix every single dupe exploit or cheat without a system of server authorisation. The attempt would be a complete waste of time.

 

Now what we ARE doing is opening up more values for modding so it's a one-liner to adjust the stamina cost of running, jumping, or what-have-you.

Creating a super duper hard mode for 50 guys who have already bought the game just isn't very economic. Working on making the game more fun for 5000 new guys is a lot smarter.

That doesn't mean making the game easier (which I know some will intentionally misread this as) but better structured and documented so that an action has reasonable consequences.

 

In A16 having an empty hunger bar does... what? Anything? Exactly.

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Anyone following the news about the Intel Kernel hardware leak(and fix)? Everyone who has an Intel CPU is gonna have a speed reduction in the area of 5% - 30%.

 

The CEO even dumped stock as soon as he found out about the problem.

 

Weak.

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I hated that mechanic, it made no sense.

 

Apologies for discussion tardiness. Not. Been busy. Trying to get last 3 Steam chieves for State of Decay while waiting for 17 to drop... or SOD2... or 3... ; - )

 

Actually, Quantum Physics Observer theory would have us believe that the more a Zed can be observed (ie day) the more 'phenomenal' changes can actually occur. If they cannot be observed, then not as much phenomenal changes. (This has NOTHING to do with unloaded chunks.)

 

So, 7D2D non-Quantum Zombies. Next up: 7D2D Schrodinger Zombies.

 

Oh, wait, we had those in earlier versions. (Darn it - I KNOW I just cleared this POI!!! for the 13th time!!! in the last 20 minutes...)

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Anyone following the news about the Intel Kernel hardware leak(and fix)? Everyone who has an Intel CPU is gonna have a speed reduction in the area of 5% - 30%.

 

The CEO even dumped stock as soon as he found out about the problem.

 

Weak.

 

yep just watched a video on it before coming into forum. i just bought a ryzen system right before Christmas, guess how i feel, now to train windows 10 to behave itself may be worse then the issue with an intel cpu (which i havent used an intel cpu for5-7 yrs now)... i done lost all my saved passwords (have most back and WRITTEN down) but still some more i havent got back yet. microsoft snuck in an update over night and all internet cache was wiped... history and passwords.

 

but i am slowly gaining ground. :)

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Onto a more serious topic: Framerates. (For those who can't get enough...) It will be interesting to see if/what kind of impact Meltdown/Specter might have on 7D2D/Unity...

 

Oh, too funny. Just saw Odetta's and UnholyJoes comments after posting my first line. Actually that 5-30% is for Linux and highly speculative currently. Windows systems are currently unknown as the update/patch just became available. (Certain AV products may blue screen...) Various Linux distro are patched. Macs are somewhat patched. (VMWare ESXi got patched mid Dec).

 

And, there is currently some speculation on whether or not more patches might be needed. btw - if you interested in a really kewl way to hack computers (it's related to this) check out rowhammer. (which is 2 years old, and much kewler things are happening...)

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yep just watched a video on it before coming into forum. i just bought a ryzen system right before Christmas, guess how i feel, now to train windows 10 to behave itself may be worse then the issue with an intel cpu (which i havent used an intel cpu for5-7 yrs now)... i done lost all my saved passwords (have most back and WRITTEN down) but still some more i havent got back yet. microsoft snuck in an update over night and all internet cache was wiped... history and passwords.

 

but i am slowly gaining ground. :)

 

 

Lucky!

 

Onto a more serious topic: Framerates. (For those who can't get enough...) It will be interesting to see if/what kind of impact Meltdown/Specter might have on 7D2D/Unity...

 

Seeing how 7D2D is extremely CPU heavy (more than any game I own) I'd say the impact is gonna be substantial.

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yep just watched a video on it before coming into forum. i just bought a ryzen system right before Christmas, guess how i feel, now to train windows 10 to behave itself may be worse then the issue with an intel cpu (which i havent used an intel cpu for5-7 yrs now)... i done lost all my saved passwords (have most back and WRITTEN down) but still some more i havent got back yet. microsoft snuck in an update over night and all internet cache was wiped... history and passwords.

 

but i am slowly gaining ground. :)

 

Two words:

 

Bit Warden

 

:p

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Anyone following the news about the Intel Kernel hardware leak(and fix)? Everyone who has an Intel CPU is gonna have a speed reduction in the area of 5% - 30%.

 

The CEO even dumped stock as soon as he found out about the problem.

 

Weak.

 

I'm really not sure it's going to be that bad for the majority of users...

 

As I understand it, it will be most noticeable when there are multiple external calls to the CPU (what ever that means). But basically, it shouldn't be noticeable for the general gamer...

 

Also, Skylake and above should only be slightly affected... If at all...

 

But yeah, it would have been a nice fact to know, if you just bought a new Intel CPU :)

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as a player, the only interesting parts of A17 are the quests. everything else already exists.

 

Might just be me but with all the information dropped I feel a17 could feel like a completely new game with all the additions they are adding to the backend system which hopefully will allow for more features (bandits, NPC, more animals, more loot ect ect) before the game goes gold.

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I'm really not sure it's going to be that bad for the majority of users...

 

As I understand it, it will be most noticeable when there are multiple external calls to the CPU (what ever that means). But basically, it shouldn't be noticeable for the general gamer...

 

Also, Skylake and above should only be slightly affected... If at all...

 

But yeah, it would have been a nice fact to know, if you just bought a new Intel CPU :)

 

(simplifying...) The root is know as the Intel PTI bug. Page Translation Isolation. Which has to do with how apps and data are placed into RAM. It used to be apps and data would just be loaded into 'known' memory sections - in sequential order. 'Bad actors' started using that to capture info/data from ram areas. (and then do various things with that info). PTI is supposed to make it harder to determine where certain sections of that data is being stored. (ASLR ties into this conversation as well by 'randomizing' those locations.) This was a necessary development in order to have multiple virtual systems on the same physical system - and yet make sure each of those virtual systems could not access the others.

 

It's been discovered that there is kind of a way around the obfuscation.

 

The fix requires additional operations to ensure the data (or app segment) is truly obfuscated. That might mean that the more something needs to swap in and out of memory areas (like large programs, or apps with a lot of loaded data) might be visibly slowed down. (Which means it will be interesting to see what happens to large memory utilizing games running on virtual servers...)

 

btw - a few Linux gaming sites have reported almost no difference in performance pre and post patch. (Although it seems like those results are from end user systems and not servers and/or virtual servers.)

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Yep. Standing on one place to get hungry faster so you can eat food faster so you can get more HP faster... that is nothing but silly.

 

You want to improve your character? You have a currency to spend. Skill points or whatever they end up being called.

Then you decide what is most important to you instead of completely bypassing the cost structure with the above grind.

 

We can have drugs, worn items, or quests/training improve things like HP as well so there are plenty of options for temporary or permanent boni.

But one thing won't happen. You won't get a free ride to awesomeness burning through the 50 stacks of meat in your fridge...

 

But... I like meat.

 

But really I don't think that we should rely too heavy on things like drugs and armor to boost your HP.

 

What about diet and exercise? I mean that you already get a boost just from running. But what if we got more out of it?

 

 

Like if you run you get some HP but if your chopping wood and building stuff. Then you should get even more HP. Add a good diet into the mix and you got something. :)

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Like if you run you get some HP but if your chopping wood and building stuff. Then you should get even more HP. Add a good diet into the mix and you got something. :)

Oh yeah, if you play for 3-5 years of game time...

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Honestly I think the game is now way too easy. The first seventh day is a joke as wood spikes are pretty OP. By day 8 I had blue level steel tools, the best guns and had no real threat to me.

 

I also miss the scary dangerous cities, you know? When you entered a city and the sky went dark and green and the streets were packed with the most dangerous zombies including feral zombies. Now you can just run in and get everything you need with no real threat. I miss that scary atmosphere.

 

Edit, I also never need to move beyond the Wooden Bow.

 

I assume then you're playing at max dificulty and always run? If not then make it harder yourself and change the settings.

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