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Developer Discussions: Alpha 17


Roland

Developer Discussions: Alpha 17  

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  1. 1. Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

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I've put a lot of hours into A17 so far and couldn't quite put my finger on what fell off about how the game "felt" until now.

 

I believe the new hungry /health system is flawed. I've had my hungry levels maxed out and I'm still loosing max stamina. You also add in the death penalty, temperature system, and new encumbrance penalty on top of it and stamina feels harsh. Now add all of that up and try to go do a dungeon in narrow corridors with constant ferals only to be rewarded with a loot room at the end that dosent satisfy for all the work you put in.

 

I

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The screenshots from MM cheered me right up!

 

Yesterday the news came that the company I'm working for will be doing a massive reorganization.. 25% of all staff will be reduced. The location I'm in will go from 280 to 100 people.. Horrible.. So I'm glad for the cheerup with screenshots :)

 

Same situation just happened with our TPM at the place where I work, and I agree with beerfly, look at even the worst case as a good reason to make a life-improving change.

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Red eagle has a great modlet that adds a leaflet to mailboxes, and they give you a quest to the nearest trader...once you have a motorcycle and can explore, they are a great addition.

 

That actually sounds really cool, if it's not too complicated maybe TFP could include it as part of vanilla. Maybe.

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Uninstalled a 17, went back to A16. A17 killed the server I was on. Everyone quit playing and went to A16 servers. A17 is just a huge mess. I can live without the 4X4 or motorbike. A16 seems a ton more realistic since you have to build the components then build the bike. Plus you had to find information that told you HOW to build a minibike. This new A17 pretty much removed everything I enjoyed about a16 including looting zombies. Was like Christmas morning after every blood moon. Now zombie loot it so scarce, no one wants to play anymore.

 

The old mechanics of hitting harder with higher levels is sorely missed, now all the item level does is increase durability. This last update is a massive step backwards. Most everyone I played with before was so disgusted with it, they just quit. Some went to A16 servers, but the universal constant is no one likes A17 in ANY of it's various forms. Will Fun Pimps listen?? Nope! Too arrogant and stupid to realize they are destroying any chance of anyone buying this steaming pile of doo doo once it leaves it's never ending Alpha state.

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Uninstalled a 17, went back to A16. A17 killed the server I was on. Everyone quit playing and went to A16 servers. A17 is just a huge mess. I can live without the 4X4 or motorbike. A16 seems a ton more realistic since you have to build the components then build the bike. Plus you had to find information that told you HOW to build a minibike. This new A17 pretty much removed everything I enjoyed about a16 including looting zombies. Was like Christmas morning after every blood moon. Now zombie loot it so scarce, no one wants to play anymore.

 

The old mechanics of hitting harder with higher levels is sorely missed, now all the item level does is increase durability. This last update is a massive step backwards. Most everyone I played with before was so disgusted with it, they just quit. Some went to A16 servers, but the universal constant is no one likes A17 in ANY of it's various forms. Will Fun Pimps listen?? Nope! Too arrogant and stupid to realize they are destroying any chance of anyone buying this steaming pile of doo doo once it leaves it's never ending Alpha state.

 

Quite the opposite here on all counts. I like the less zombie loot, the new health system, the new stamina system and perks.

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... Will Fun Pimps listen?? Nope! Too arrogant and stupid to realize they are destroying any chance of anyone buying this steaming pile of doo doo once it leaves it's never ending Alpha state.

 

Well, i see how you are playing the game. Do you enjoy playing or is it already labour ?

 

 

https://7daystodie.com/forums/showthread.php?106365-Queue-in-Chem-Station-randomly-deletes-queue-and-materials

I farmed 42,000 coal and Nitrate powder. Popped it in the chem station to make gunpowder, click the max button and set it to crafting gunpowder. A couple of minutes later, I checked my gun powder process and discovered that once I closed the Chem station interface, production was halted, queue was cancelled and all resources were lost. Out of 42,000 coal and Nitrate powder, I got 56 gun powder. I tried it again, with 37,000 and again, queue was cancelled, and mats lost once I closed the interface. Same thing with 35,000, lost everything. It appears that if you exceed 32,767 crafted items in a single production unit queue slot, closing the interface causes the queue to crash and delete all resources.

 

This is very easy to duplicate, just try crafting 35,000 of anything, close the interface and the queue crashes and all resources are lost. Appears to be using signed Short variables. Not like you can have negative resources. This is impossible to duplicate in a forge since you are limited to 30,000 of all resources. This is NOT so using the chem station since the resources are subtracted from your inventory. Just need to add a check to see if the max exceeds 30,000 and if it does, put a hard cap that no more than 30K items can be crafted in a single queue slot. Either that or have people getting choked over losing massive amounts of resources.

 

Tried crushing 42,000 stone to sand and they too vanished. So it is not just the Chem Station. It also crashed when I tried to crush 36,000 stone to sand. 6 X 6000 is what the output UI on a cement mixer can support. Would appear the data type of your storage variables needs to be set at least to an unsigned short which would effectively double storage and queue limits. Better yet, change them to integers which would take your crafting queues and item storage to a little over 2 billion. There is no way that this issue would appear then. Characters do not have enough slots to even come close to crafting 2 billion of anything. Even if it's a worry about negative numbers causing errors, best solution, INT over UShort.

 

 

 

Maybe with some more nice words you get more attention. Iam sorry you got no response in your bug thread.

Being arrogant yourself will not get us or TFP or the game any further at all.

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Quite the opposite here on all counts. I like the less zombie loot, the new health system, the new stamina system and perks.

 

Yeah i like it too mate. Some players just want everything from the get go. They dont wanna scrimp and scrounge like we should have to in a survival game.

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Yeah i like it too mate. Some players just want everything from the get go. They dont wanna scrimp and scrounge like we should have to in a survival game.

 

Uh, quite the opposite actually. In A17 now everything is virtually handed to you on a silver platter except for one or two things like beakers. You can now craft virtually anything (Which will change in the upcoming updates...Thankfully). There is no longer reliance on RNG which indeed made it more survival like in the past.

 

There are so many things that could have been cool like for example finding a broken down car in the wild and having an ability to fix it and then use it. this makes far more sense than "Making" one. Of course cars are very common to see in the game, so to balance this, you would rarely find a working car that did not require you to fix it. This would give you two paths to get a car - Either fix a broken car (Plenty of those going around) OR win the RNG lotto and find one that still works. The latter would give a sense of reward for exploring. The former would be a fall-back option if RNG screwed you and you couldn't locate a working one. Fixing a car would effectively cost the same materials as "crafting" one does currently.

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A few seeds ago I had 3 of them in very close proximity lol, lack of loot in the building along with no real reason to need a book store at that time made them meh. Sounds like the books will change that though.

 

Did you notice that there are two room now with wall to wall bookshelfs? AFAIK they weren't there in previous incarnactions.

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Did you notice that there are two room now with wall to wall bookshelfs? AFAIK they weren't there in previous incarnactions.

 

I did see that, and that was nice, however there was nothing I really needed in the bookshelves. I also noticed that there was about 1/10 of the loot crates throughout. And the roof had about 1/10 of the loot as well.

 

Hopefully it all pans out with the books though.

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Uh, quite the opposite actually. In A17 now everything is virtually handed to you on a silver platter except for one or two things like beakers. You can now craft virtually anything (Which will change in the upcoming updates...Thankfully). There is no longer reliance on RNG which indeed made it more survival like in the past.

 

There are so many things that could have been cool like for example finding a broken down car in the wild and having an ability to fix it and then use it. this makes far more sense than "Making" one. Of course cars are very common to see in the game, so to balance this, you would rarely find a working car that did not require you to fix it. This would give you two paths to get a car - Either fix a broken car (Plenty of those going around) OR win the RNG lotto and find one that still works. The latter would give a sense of reward for exploring. The former would be a fall-back option if RNG screwed you and you couldn't locate a working one. Fixing a car would effectively cost the same materials as "crafting" one does currently.

 

I'd honestly love to see a Lift like work area that you can build to craft vehicles. May not make sense for bikes, but it'd be cool to build a whole garage out including a vehicle lift for making the larger vehicles.

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Uninstalled a 17, went back to A16. A17 killed the server I was on. Everyone quit playing and went to A16 servers. A17 is just a huge mess. I can live without the 4X4 or motorbike. A16 seems a ton more realistic since you have to build the components then build the bike. Plus you had to find information that told you HOW to build a minibike. This new A17 pretty much removed everything I enjoyed about a16 including looting zombies. Was like Christmas morning after every blood moon. Now zombie loot it so scarce, no one wants to play anymore.

 

The old mechanics of hitting harder with higher levels is sorely missed, now all the item level does is increase durability. This last update is a massive step backwards. Most everyone I played with before was so disgusted with it, they just quit. Some went to A16 servers, but the universal constant is no one likes A17 in ANY of it's various forms. Will Fun Pimps listen?? Nope! Too arrogant and stupid to realize they are destroying any chance of anyone buying this steaming pile of doo doo once it leaves it's never ending Alpha state.

 

I don't know what kind of players you are playing with, but I absolutely cannot agree with you.

 

My main problem with A17 has been RWG. It is horrible right now, and every single A17 release has been an unplayable mess compared to A16. But TFP have obviously been working on that, and it's still possible to play with RWG if you just use other peoples' work and hunt down one of their successful seeds.

 

In nearly every other way imaginable, vanilla A17 is far superior to vanilla A16. The graphics are much better (even if you have to go with a much lower resolution, and even so they still look better). The trader quest system is a huge step in the right direction. The POIs in general are astronomically superior (though I do wish that at least a few of the old ones were still left in).

 

There are a few things that obviously might not be to your taste - such as the removal of "XP by doing," the lack of gun parts, or the reworked progression system - but even there, I'm on the A17 side of things. The weapons mods, in particular, I think are a huge improvement over the old A16 "find useless parts and spend a night combining them in a workbench" system.

 

Note, I did say "vanilla." The modding possibilities are not yet, quite, up to the possibilities of A16. This is not because modding is harder - by all accounts it's far easier than A16 - but because they removed some possibilities that were present in A16 modding, and they are the possibilities that I am actually invested in. Mainly, A16's ability to mod in UMA NPCs (even if their AI was basic and limited), which does not seem to be possible in A17 from what I understand. (At least not without using SDX to rewrite the C# IL which is both a modding drag and impossible to use with EAC.)

 

Still, even with the downsides - because of the RWG I briefly went back to A16, and it's night and day. I gave up quickly and went back to A17.

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Snip for space....

Still, even with the downsides - because of the RWG I briefly went back to A16, and it's night and day. I gave up quickly and went back to A17.

 

I'm playing both right now. I use the 7DTD Mod Launcher to play A16.4. I'm having fun in both, however I still feel the perk/progression system and RNG in A16.4 is far superior than A17.x. Just my opinion, but A16.4 feels way more rewarding and makes me WANT to go loot everything I can. Also, day 2 forge FTW. Just my opinion though.

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Uninstalled a 17, went back to A16. A17 killed the server I was on. Everyone quit playing and went to A16 servers. A17 is just a huge mess. I can live without the 4X4 or motorbike. A16 seems a ton more realistic since you have to build the components then build the bike. Plus you had to find information that told you HOW to build a minibike. This new A17 pretty much removed everything I enjoyed about a16 including looting zombies. Was like Christmas morning after every blood moon. Now zombie loot it so scarce, no one wants to play anymore.

 

The old mechanics of hitting harder with higher levels is sorely missed, now all the item level does is increase durability. This last update is a massive step backwards. Most everyone I played with before was so disgusted with it, they just quit. Some went to A16 servers, but the universal constant is no one likes A17 in ANY of it's various forms. Will Fun Pimps listen?? Nope! Too arrogant and stupid to realize they are destroying any chance of anyone buying this steaming pile of doo doo once it leaves it's never ending Alpha state.

 

Let me disagree with you. I have been playing since Alpha 9 and from my experience this game has improved greatly. It's got bigger, it has much more content, better graphics, more challenge, etc etc. Removing zombie loot was a superb idea. A16 was boring and too easy.

 

Of course, not everything is perfect, there has been ups and downs, but the general direction is of the game is very satisfying for me and I hope the development of the game will never stop. The game being in Alpha has lots of good points, therefore I hope it will stay in Alpha as long as it takes.

 

The Fun Pimps and Madmole are working hard and doing a great job. They do not own you anything - if you do not like this game, why don't you go play Parkosaurus or Village Heroes instead of posting depressing texts? Get a grip and do something useful.

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I'm playing both right now. I use the 7DTD Mod Launcher to play A16.4. I'm having fun in both, however I still feel the perk/progression system and RNG in A16.4 is far superior than A17.x. Just my opinion, but A16.4 feels way more rewarding and makes me WANT to go loot everything I can. Also, day 2 forge FTW. Just my opinion though.

 

In A16 getting a forge early felt like you were really getting something done! I liked building huge fortresses and the realism of getting skills by doing or reading a manual. The Crack-a-Book skyscraper was a "break-a-game" in the end.

 

In A17, POI's are exciting and a little scary which is great, but a shotgun is the main weapon you can use because of brass shortages. Melee is fine early game and no added points are needed, but late game you need ALL the points perks to make fighting a sane venture. Stealth has real potential IMO.

 

In both A16 and A17, IMO, few people make normal fortress's because of the resource loss to mainly ammo and lesser to building material.

 

In conclusion, A16 is more realistic and a better builder game, A17 is a greater challenge in most ways.

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Speaking of Trader quests. It would be cool if when you got to the trader for the first time he gave you a quest to another trader nearby. So, you dont have to drive around aimlessly looking for other trader outpost.

 

Personally, I think that since traders now play a much bigger part of the game the starter quests should be re-ordered. The Trader quest should come before the Frame and Campfire quests.

 

Instead of encouraging you to start a base and then leave it to go off and find a trader which could be miles away, it should send you to the trader first and then encourage you to start a base nearby.

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<snipped for space>

 

You're running the risk of a negative feedback loop for new players.

 

1. Get trader quest.

2. Die on the way to the trader.

3. Respawn miles away in a completely unknown place because you have no bedroll down.

4. Repeat steps 1-3 several times until frustrated.

5. Quit.

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You're running the risk of a negative feedback loop for new players.

 

1. Get trader quest.

2. Die on the way to the trader.

3. Respawn miles away in a completely unknown place because you have no bedroll down.

4. Repeat steps 1-3 several times until frustrated.

5. Quit.

 

I guess you could activate both quests then in parallel. Should be doable within the quest system. So the "new" players could choose.

 

Edit: Or you could do a tutorial level in which you can test out movement, building and traps and weapons ad all vehicles, cooking, SI, etc.

Maybe the game does get some thing when TFP decides to go Gold, but otherwise its a waste of time now, cause there could still be features, that get implemented or polished or removed.

 

TLDR:

Other things need optimization first.

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FEATURE request or does it already exist:

 

Can you script zombie/hordes? I am wondering about turning off BM but having a scripted horde of Ferals that shows u p at locations I want like your house

 

You’ll need a server mod for that.

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Uninstalled a 17, went back to A16. A17 killed the server I was on. Everyone quit playing and went to A16 servers. A17 is just a huge mess. I can live without the 4X4 or motorbike. A16 seems a ton more realistic since you have to build the components then build the bike. Plus you had to find information that told you HOW to build a minibike. This new A17 pretty much removed everything I enjoyed about a16 including looting zombies. Was like Christmas morning after every blood moon. Now zombie loot it so scarce, no one wants to play anymore.

 

The old mechanics of hitting harder with higher levels is sorely missed, now all the item level does is increase durability. This last update is a massive step backwards. Most everyone I played with before was so disgusted with it, they just quit. Some went to A16 servers, but the universal constant is no one likes A17 in ANY of it's various forms. Will Fun Pimps listen?? Nope! Too arrogant and stupid to realize they are destroying any chance of anyone buying this steaming pile of doo doo once it leaves it's never ending Alpha state.

 

You are mistaken about higher level guns not hitting harder. Higher level guns have more mod slots. Each mod slot filled increases your damage, no matter what mod is put in. So not only do higher level guns do more damage they also give you the mods ability.

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Uh, quite the opposite actually. In A17 now everything is virtually handed to you on a silver platter except for one or two things like beakers. You can now craft virtually anything (Which will change in the upcoming updates...Thankfully). There is no longer reliance on RNG which indeed made it more survival like in the past.

 

There are so many things that could have been cool like for example finding a broken down car in the wild and having an ability to fix it and then use it. this makes far more sense than "Making" one. Of course cars are very common to see in the game, so to balance this, you would rarely find a working car that did not require you to fix it. This would give you two paths to get a car - Either fix a broken car (Plenty of those going around) OR win the RNG lotto and find one that still works. The latter would give a sense of reward for exploring. The former would be a fall-back option if RNG screwed you and you couldn't locate a working one. Fixing a car would effectively cost the same materials as "crafting" one does currently.

 

I don't know what this nostalgia about A16 is. I had every book and gun found in by the end of the first week or two tops in A16. At best your gratification was delayed by a few days. Is that really worth pining over?

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You're running the risk of a negative feedback loop for new players.

 

1. Get trader quest.

2. Die on the way to the trader.

3. Respawn miles away in a completely unknown place because you have no bedroll down.

4. Repeat steps 1-3 several times until frustrated.

5. Quit.

 

I don't think survival type games are for the kind of people who would quit after a first death or three. The allure of survival games is figuring things out from what I read of other peoples opinions of them. Of course you are going to have people rage quit who are not into that type of experience.

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You are mistaken about higher level guns not hitting harder. Higher level guns have more mod slots. Each mod slot filled increases your damage, no matter what mod is put in. So not only do higher level guns do more damage they also give you the mods ability.

 

You're missing the point. A higher quality level weapon or tool should perform better than a lower quality one. Mods should do unique things, not add x% damage.

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Personally, I think that since traders now play a much bigger part of the game the starter quests should be re-ordered. The Trader quest should come before the Frame and Campfire quests.

 

Instead of encouraging you to start a base and then leave it to go off and find a trader which could be miles away, it should send you to the trader first and then encourage you to start a base nearby.

 

Agreed! I can't recall ever going back to the campfire and upgraded frames in a17, and rarely even in a16. First day one priority is to get to the trader and see whats working there.

 

I'd even go further and take out the frame and campfire tasks completely... I need those points the first day for cooking, and survival.

 

Maybe split the reward points for everything up to the frames and campfire, and then reward the rest for the frames and campfire?

 

On our typical day one playthrough now we get out points, spend them, get to the trader, see who's trader is best if they are different, and then koin up and find some place to spend the first night. The frames and campfire quest would be more worthwhile being built where we are actually spending the night, instead of getting more resources to make them a second time.

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