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Developer Discussions: Alpha 17


Roland

Developer Discussions: Alpha 17  

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  1. 1. Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

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I don't want the xp bar either. And I would say that from about 10% to 100% life or death is not involved. 0% for about 15 minutes yes. But guess what? Way before that point you have your information on the hud.

 

Well, perhaps with the settings you play on - not so with mine. I've been in similar situations to RD's bedrock-overheating scenario, and being able to make a GO/NO-GO decision without having to stop what you are doing and pull up the menu is pretty important.

 

You are ok with the current HUD, and some other people are too. As a player and someone with (some) UI design experience, I think it's a sub-optimal design choice.

 

-A

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Well, perhaps with the settings you play on - not so with mine. I've been in similar situations to RD's bedrock-overheating scenario, and being able to make a GO/NO-GO decision without having to stop what you are doing and pull up the menu is pretty important.

 

You are ok with the current HUD, and some other people are too. As a player and someone with (some) UI design experience, I think it's a sub-optimal design choice.

 

-A

 

I died to hunger on a horde night while messing with experimental. Why? Because I was KILLING ZOMBIES and didn't have time to pay attention to my belly trying to give birth to a grown man. So dead I was, amidst trying to shoot cops and ferals. If I had the bar I'd have been able to look over and say "♥♥♥♥ time to eat" and hit the stew on my bar. Without the info I would have had to stop looking at my current life or death situation. Being that it was a Burnt biome I dehydrated even quicker.

 

We can get into a realism argument. Hows this for realism. The game makes you eat so friggin much that no way in hell if I woke up and ate at 3pm would I drop dead at 2am while fighting zombies in "real life". If you want us to play realistically when it comes to stats maybe I shouldn't have to eat the whole damn cow to live through the night. Then MAYBE I wouldn't need the bar on my screen to begin with.

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I would find stats that fade in and out distracting.

 

Hell, the game could do proper multi monitor support and I'd be fine with the hud on a 2nd monitor. =)

 

If they fade out after 2-3 secs I agree, but I think if they become visible/less opaque with their relevancy and stayed until you solve the problem there is no real distraction. Showing hunger and thirst when they are below 50% would probably mean these bars come one once, maybe twice a day, remind you of eating and go away after you did.

 

A health bar that is only visible when its below 80% would only become visible in action - and only disappear the instance you take action/take a bandage,etc..

Stamina may make sense to only fade out at 100% so it only becomes visible by your action. I dont think players would really get distracted by a display they directly cause to appear or disapear by pushing a button in the long run...

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If they fade out after 2-3 secs I agree, but I think if they become visible/less opaque with their relevancy and stayed until you solve the problem there is no real distraction. Showing hunger and thirst when they are below 50% would probably mean these bars come one once, maybe twice a day, remind you of eating and go away after you did.

 

A health bar that is only visible when its below 80% would only become visible in action - and only disappear the instance you take action/take a bandage,etc..

Stamina may make sense to only fade out at 100% so it only becomes visible by your action. I dont think players would really get distracted by a display they directly cause to appear or disapear by pushing a button in the long run...

 

It's bad enough we have a chat box that can't seem to stay up longer than Grandpa at a cathouse. Knowing how things seem to work out a fading hunger bar would be a disaster in execution.

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Then stop searching through menus and eat something. You'll have your info. Easy Peasy

 

Come on man, now you're just trolling me. You trying to tell me it's easier to run all the way to my fridge and eat something, that I might not even need to eat, than it is to hit B? Which I'm arguing is already unnecessarily inconvenient for it's purpose and solution.

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It's bad enough we have a chat box that can't seem to stay up longer than Grandpa at a cathouse. Knowing how things seem to work out a fading hunger bar would be a disaster in execution.

 

Sry, I dont mean fading out with a timer like the chat...better way to put it would be only visible if its between 0 and ie. 50%

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Sry, I dont mean fading out with a timer like the chat...better way to put it would be only visible if its between 0 and ie. 50%

 

Ah ok. Isn't that how it is now? I'm not sure of it though. If its not then it at the very least should be. I know we do get indicators at intervals. But honestly I never notice them because they seem to be up and gone before you know it. Shows you how ineffective it all is.

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A hunger or Thirst bar I don't need them on all the time. Just pop up at 25% and stay on for anything below that. More times than not, I fill them both up that point any how. 25% is a good marker point imo, even if I'm cold. >.> Have the audio cues start at that point as well and then 1 more time at 10, no need for them to play that often. again imo.

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I know we do get indicators at intervals. But honestly I never notice them because they seem to be up and gone before you know it. Shows you how ineffective it all is.

 

Exactly. Thirst/hunger between 50-100% info shouldnt be there - below 50% should be there constantly...idealy as a bar not a countdown ...

And same should go for health...if I'm building, mining, farming and havent been hit by anything for a day or two I don't need the health bar - but if I have been hit it should be visible until I do sth to get rid of it.

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Meanwhile, I just wonder if we can get any interaction with the pet animal we are gonna get. If there is a way , even a mod to play fetch with a zed limb with my boy Bud, would be just cool.

 

Back to topic...offtopic. What if we get HUD stuff added depending on different difficulty levels. Getting all that this hunger, thirst, %s could be added to easier levels, from the menu before you start the game , without giving you option to change it. But, if you play ultimate hard level you have no map, gps, these dials that shows you if your stomache needs a can of what`s left in your inventory. What if hardest level gives you only HP, wellness and the view in front of your eyes. And dead is dead of course. Pimps will do what it needs for that. Keep kickin :)

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Zero downside in eating to determine whether or not you're hungy?

 

Let me list the ways...

 

1 - It's ♥♥♥♥ing retarded

2 - I lose that food, which could be more useful when I'm REALLY hungry

3 - Since the speed hunger increase/decreases based on activity, it's still not a good barometer

4 - So knowing I have just a little bit of blue left to level up is better?

5 - Hunger isn't always just about maxing stats, in this game it's a LIFE OR DEATH FACTOR. Unlike, well, pretty much everything else on the screen.

6 - It's ♥♥♥♥ing retarded.

 

At this point I /know/ you're trolling, so I'll let others take the bait. =)

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

 

 

...except to say that under the right circumstances, 10% to 0% can happen pretty damn quickly, and you end up not even being able to PLAN around eating... maybe that's it? You're not a planner? Well, I am, and apparently so are a good deal many other people... now I won't sit here and say that "we need it because we're paying customers and it's what we want", but I will say it's ♥♥♥♥ing retarded NOT to cater to the wishes of the masses...

 

Most popular mod? Hud mods. Why? Because not having the info is ♥♥♥♥ing retarded.

 

Its good to not cater to the wishes of the masses if its a better design. I certainly don't care that my view is a minority view. The current implementation has plenty of warning. I'm fine with Tin's suggestion to change it so the icon pops up and stays up at 25% fullness instead of 10%. I'm not sure why you think that I think having an XP bar is better than having a food bar. They're both crap and unnecessary.

 

Hunger is a life and death factor which is why we need enough feedback to be able to function. I've learned to function just fine with the only feedback being the hunger pain noise so I absolutely know that the current system is absolutely adequate for hunger feedback if you are paying attention.

 

I was asked why not have the bar since apparently clutter isn't the real issue. My answer is that the bar is too much information that removes player error in regards to eating and drinking from the game. Without it you have to play with awareness to the signs and you can more easily find yourself in an actual life or death situation which is why we play survival games in the first place. The food and water bars keep us well away from playing to survive. They keep us well within playing keep-the-bar-topped-off.

 

I'm not trying to troll anyone with this. It is what I believe and I know its unpopular but its also a very interesting subject. I'm also willing to accept the return of the food bar and mod my game if necessary. Who knows? Maybe the xp bar IS just the beginning and its all coming back.

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The current design allows for missed information due to not paying attention which is a completely consistent simulation of a survivor in a stressful and intense environment.

 

The current design gives "signs of hunger" rather than to the percentage knowledge of 74% vs 73% vs 72% fullness

 

Adding the food bar would virtually remove any player mistakes in regards to hunger. It would be almost impossible to accidentally face the survival situation of starvation due to player error.

 

The food bar with its percentages encourages and facilitates gamey behavior for things like getting your wellness up which is unnatural behavior that has nothing to do with how you feel hunger or fullness in real life.

 

So beyond clutter there are some valid design reasons to do periodic notifications and sound effects rather than always on percentage point by percentage point perfect knowledge.

 

I get that lots of other games include a food bar. I'm glad TFP made a different choice and I hope they continue to do things that will allow players to make mistakes and have to live with the consequences of those mistakes.

 

I agree with @roland. There is enough, I have trained myself to recognize the different noises that happen at various times.

I would however still miss it even if the hunger bar was on the screen, I miss the messages that are right in the centre of the screen in the current setup.

 

If the map went away, I would surely get lost. Or I would train myself to only go a specific direction when traveling.

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If you went into freezing weather unprepared then you never did act sensefully to begin with...

 

The only problem I have with your statement is this. The temperature can range (randomly?) from very hot to freezing in a snow biome, so the only way to prepare is take a full change of clothes, for very hot and very cold.

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The only problem I have with your statement is this. The temperature can range (randomly?) from very hot to freezing in a snow biome, so the only way to prepare is take a full change of clothes, for very hot and very cold.

 

Temperature levels are still a work in progress. It will get what it needs to give us better experience. Both in Navezgane and RWG. It is before beta stage, so everything can be fixed/changed.

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I would find stats that fade in and out distracting.

 

Hell, the game could do proper multi monitor support and I'd be fine with the hud on a 2nd monitor. =)

 

Are there any games that do? I don't play that many different ones, but have not seen any.

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Man how cool would it be if you had to manually record days gone by? You could scratch them into the walls haha!

 

Would be terrifying if you lost your record it couldn't remember...

 

Maybe add a calendar and clock to a wall at the trader that you can set your looted watch the first time, and if you forget to wind it each morning, you can go back to the trader for that info.

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But unlike the map change we are 2 Alphas in to this Hud change and people are still pretty adamant about not liking it much. Maybe if it wasn't standard to see this info in every other survival game. Same can be said for Stamina and Health. No one needs it and if you want just look into the menu to see it. But for the most part many seem to agree having the info there is better than not.

 

I'm not saying I disagree with it being gone as a mod. It is an interesting way to play, but for standard and to appeal to the almighty general gamer which Pimps try VERY hard to do having it there seems to be the way to happiness.

 

Do I want it back? Nope. I know how to mod and have zero issues doing it. I always put it back. But others most likely dont and wont. Most likely the majority of the people who like not having a hud are pretty decent at modding already anyway.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

 

 

There are a LOT of planners. I am reminded of this every day when our resident mathematician points out ALL the faults in my mods food program lol

 

Shouldn't you plan by making sure to take food and water with you? (I don't actually do this, I normally forget to leave everything behind when I go scavenging, but almost always leave food behind).

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

Well, perhaps with the settings you play on - not so with mine. I've been in similar situations to RD's bedrock-overheating scenario, and being able to make a GO/NO-GO decision without having to stop what you are doing and pull up the menu is pretty important.

 

You are ok with the current HUD, and some other people are too. As a player and someone with (some) UI design experience, I think it's a sub-optimal design choice.

 

-A

 

I agree that it is a sub-optimal design, but that it is this way on purpose to push towards a more survival, immersive type of view.

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Are there any games that do? I don't play that many different ones, but have not seen any.

 

Supreme Commander supported dual monitors.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

I agree that it is a sub-optimal design, but that it is this way on purpose to push towards a more survival, immersive type of view.

 

Now we know better, since the xp bar is included in a17.

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Temperature levels are still a work in progress. It will get what it needs to give us better experience. Both in Navezgane and RWG. It is before beta stage, so everything can be fixed/changed.

 

I agree, it will probably change in the future and be alot better.

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Supreme Commander supported dual monitors.

 

- - - Updated - - -

And enabled you to put appropriate stuff on it? I just want Elite to hand my 3 monitors correctly (currently opens the menus and centralizes it so that the menu is exactly where the monitor break is.)

Now we know better, since the xp bar is included in a17.

 

Yeah, I don't understand why this came in either. I did look for it on occasion, but did not find have to open a screen to get it to be too much of a chore.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

Roland RULES! Everybody shut the hell up.

jk...

 

jokes aside, I agree with him on everything

 

That is probably a dangerous stance to take!!! :-)

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Mad Mole, save the forums and post that new video.

IMO, I like the stats as is without all of the clutter. Roland brings up some good points about knowing your hunger and thirst. (Not going into detail, read the 1 hour of posts/debates yourself). I will argue for a better temperature system. I also like the week x ,day x time, not necessary, but cool nonetheless (shoutout to the person that posted it (Royal Deluxe?.) Other than that, I am one satisfied scavenger.

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I agree that it is a sub-optimal design, but that it is this way on purpose to push towards a more survival, immersive type of view.

 

While I'm all for immersion - the more the merrier - I think the current system was a step away from immersion.

 

Before the change, if I wanted to know where I was at hunger and thirst, I'd look at the hud. We don't have any other information than these numbers (well, ok except for the orgasm) to indicate what our bodies normally tell us on a moment by moment basis. At least as a proxy, I used to be able to look at the hud and say "Yep, getting a bit hungry, I should eat."

 

Currently, I have to

- Press a key and go into a menu to see the current state. That's immersion breaking (not to mention annoying.)

- Or, wait until the notification flashes up momentarily (and hope that I don't miss it) again, immersion breaking.

- Or, wait until I'm just about to starve/die of thirst at the last moment to be notified that, yep, I'm going to die.

 

Nothing about the current system encourages immersion, imo. It just adds an artificial layer of difficulty that is neither intuitive nor realistic.

 

-A

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