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Developer Discussions: Alpha 17


Roland

Developer Discussions: Alpha 17  

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  1. 1. Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

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Just want to give a heads up that A17.1 is close to being released to experimental. This will replace the b240 version currently residing in latest_experimental. Restart shouldn’t be necessary but just wanted those to know that their version will update automatically if they are still opted into that version.

 

At last, best idea yet. Experimental should always be an option, test out the patch before release to stable update. Should save a lot of the hooha on this forum.

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The first theoretical exploit was posted shortly after the system was confirmed to be an A* algorithm, they're pretty predictable.

 

The crux of the matter appears to be that the pathing algorithm is 2D while the world is 3D.

 

Getting A* to path in a 3D environment while maintaining frame-rate is going to be difficult.

 

Actually the nodes are in 3d. They can and do link to different height neighbor nodes. Height is used in cost calculations. Go up enough and it is considered a jump and given a higher cost based on jump height.

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I already made two changes this week that will vary zombie behavior in the ramp loop case.

 

Cool...

I hope they work

I have had fun changing the zombies behaviors. I made over 14 different changes so far 8 alone to the bloodmoon horde.

 

I am having a problem with the diggers and the cops.

 

Can't seem to keep the cops from advancing, I think it is a line of sight issue.

 

The diggers are not working as intended most of the other zombies after a bit read their holes as the shortest path and go in and just either dig sideways preventing them from digging a path up or they stand there jumping up and down and a lot of the times they just wind up killing each other.

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I already made two changes this week that will vary zombie behavior in the ramp loop case.

 

Pretty cool base!

And good to hear ther will be variants of the zombies behavior.

 

But I must ask. Is the goal for you to make the zombies "unstoppable" by defence.

Meaning that the only way to stop the zombies for the player to "physical"?

 

I in no way mean that this version of the zombies are good.

 

Just wondering since there are a lot of players voicing their opinions on wanting to play more passive.

Letting the defence defend them instead of players defending the defence.

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FAATAL, I know mod talk is kind of ot for this thread, but it's the only way to get your ear.

 

Kell managed to get all the old uma zombies working in a17, well over 100 community created zombies.

 

For performance reasons you do need to turn the uma texture res down, but performance is pretty much the same as vanilla with that setting.

 

There are some new zombie properties the old uma zombies don't have, and I was hoping maybe you could find the time to add the properties to the uma zombies?

 

Specifically, the uma zombie issues are:

 

The stagger animation when you stun them doesn't seem to be working.. they just pause a second.

 

When they fall sometimes they can slide towards you and take a whack at you before getting up (we pretend that's an intended variant behavior play mechanic for now)

 

The vehicles just pass through them and don't hit them and ragdoll them.

 

(All of these might just be new animations that weren't added to them, or enabled to them.)

 

When you kill one they become an obstacle and you can't pass through them like the standard zombies. (This becomes an issue in the quest pois when they are downed in a doorway, and you can't pass through it till they res out.

 

I haven't looked away the xml yet.. it could be the standard zombies just have some additional xml entries that need to be added to the uma zombies, or it could be hard coded changes were made.

 

Since there are over 100 uma zombies added, they offer some much needed variety to the zombies.

 

Technically I know uma zombies aren't officially supported and as a result aren't really valid for a bug report, but I had to ask because some are dear old fiends we love to kill.

 

(If you haven't seen the baby boomers or suicide mole, you need to!)

 

I completely understand if you won't touch them, but the fixes for them might be minor, and the modding community would appreciate that legacy support.

 

Also, damned you for fixing the ramp exploit! ;) now I'll have to tear out concrete ramps! :crys:

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Not whining about it, just genuinely interested to know if the AI can/will be tweaked to make these type of exploits be defeat-able.

 

There have always been ways to out smart the pathing , I just wondered if Fataal watches or see this sort of thing and goes "oh I can do this to change that" or just has to shrug and go exploits happen.

 

There are way these AI cheat can be overcome, but does that guarantee other cheat won't come to light ? then answer is no. Then can Faatal or team can fix that, yes, but then ..repeat. If they make Zed too smart then people complain, if they make zed stupid people will complain. If you see movies, they make zombie some sort of smartness, but they don't keep it that way throughout. as after interval hero use to exploit it, and then zombie evolve for climax .. :) smart cannot be contained for player or zombie.

 

So, I think this level of AI is pretty good. A little randomness in attacking pillar if not straight forward way can be done, i.e. instead of always using option 1 that take z near to player, if no direct path is available then they cna switch to plan b, c randomly.

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Actually the nodes are in 3d. They can and do link to different height neighbor nodes. Height is used in cost calculations. Go up enough and it is considered a jump and given a higher cost based on jump height.

 

You got that in? Well done! (no sarcasm intended) :-)

 

I'm curious if it only allows for jumping or also allows for direct pathing over vertical and inverted surfaces?

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Somebodys working. There's now an "alpha17.0" 'branch' that was added ~15 minutes ago.

(and visible in steam client)

 

But I would _guess_ that there will shortly be a post saying that if peeps want to stay w b240-aka-A17.0 then they can/should opt in to this new "alpha17.0".

 

***just me guessing***

 

And this doesn't mean a17.1experimental is going to drop today or even this weekend :)

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Why is Steel ammo slower and degrades the weapon? in real life we buy steel ammo and polymer ammo and its fine. I believe I can also get a higher power load in a Steel casing vs. brass. my rifles do not seem affected in any way.

 

at the very least it should have greater muzzle velocity/energy then the brass.

 

(yes I live in Texas and yes I shoot a lot every week)

It's because not the casing but the projectile is made of steel. As you can see in it's icon, where the projectile is pale blue

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Pretty cool base!

And good to hear ther will be variants of the zombies behavior.

 

But I must ask. Is the goal for you to make the zombies "unstoppable" by defence.

Meaning that the only way to stop the zombies for the player to "physical"?

 

I in no way mean that this version of the zombies are good.

 

Just wondering since there are a lot of players voicing their opinions on wanting to play more passive.

Letting the defence defend them instead of players defending the defence.

 

That's a great question. I would hope the model would be a balance of both active and passive with it getting easier in the late game but at the expense of resources (gas, turrent ammo, etc.)

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Why is Steel ammo slower and degrades the weapon? in real life we buy steel ammo and polymer ammo and its fine. I believe I can also get a higher power load in a Steel casing vs. brass. my rifles do not seem affected in any way.

 

at the very least it should have greater muzzle velocity/energy then the brass.

 

(yes I live in Texas and yes I shoot a lot every week)

 

It's because not the casing but the projectile is made of steel. As you can see in it's icon, where the projectile is pale blue

 

For what it's worth; I'm a bit bored, heh :)

 

If interested you could check out ammoman.com for some info on steel cased ammunition. Upper left click on the .308/762x51, then on the right you can choose 'steel casing'. They don't have full ballistic tables but usually have muzzle velocity. Be sure to compare the same bullet weights. Couple I checked were basically identical.

 

I've never seen a solid steel bullet(projectile). I suppose they're possible(?). What I've heard some folks refer to as 'steel bullets' are actually steel jacketed bullets, with a lead core (and possibly a steel penetrator in the middle). The steel jackets are relatively thin so able to deform into the barrels lands & grooves (needed to keep the propellent gases behind the bullet & spin the bullet for stability). A lot of US military 'ball' ammunition uses copper washed steel jacketed, lead core, bullets. Majority of the 'No-Lead' bullets (to reduce lead contamination) are solid copper, though some are brass.

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Pretty cool base!

And good to hear ther will be variants of the zombies behavior.

 

But I must ask. Is the goal for you to make the zombies "unstoppable" by defence.

Meaning that the only way to stop the zombies for the player to "physical"?

 

I in no way mean that this version of the zombies are good.

 

Just wondering since there are a lot of players voicing their opinions on wanting to play more passive.

Letting the defence defend them instead of players defending the defence.

 

That is a design decision, so not sure how that would land. Is end game goal that my mega base of best materials should passively stop all zombies while I take a nap? You can already do that with enough concrete and traps, but where is the line for how difficult that should be to create? In A16 it always felt too easy to get to that point. In A17 it is harder. More settings may be the solution to allow people to tweak that line how they want.

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