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Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

Developer Discussions: Alpha 17  

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  1. 1. Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

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If you don’t enjoy having a forge early game don’t perk into it. You are not forced to rush a forge. TFP created a system where people could rush a forge if they so chose but would have to make some sacrifices to do so. You have complete control over how you progress. If rushing a forge is unfun for you don’t do it.

 

I agree with you in the "don't rush a forge if it's not fun". Though, it sounds like you can rush a forge and not be hurting, especially if you play MP. Someone rush forge, someone rush killing, someone rush harvesting. Boom, all 3 on day 1 and makes it easy. Then just inc difficulty, etc. But there's got to be some point where the answer isn't always "increase the difficulty". I don't know, just thoughts is all.

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If you don’t enjoy having a forge early game don’t perk into it. You are not forced to rush a forge. TFP created a system where people could rush a forge if they so chose but would have to make some sacrifices to do so. You have complete control over how you progress. If rushing a forge is unfun for you don’t do it.

 

Sorry but I disagree. I play games in the most efficient way, the point is the most efficient way should not allows you to reach end game by day 5.

 

The way you put it well I could spec into ranged and play melee because melee is easy with all the perks. Or I could try to clear poi's punching zombies. Or I could just clear one poi and stay there, starve to death, respawn, starve to death again and wouldnt be at end game by day 100.

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Agreed. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE the new dungeons, but I'm finding that everywhere I look is ALL dungeons (house and cabin wise), very rarely a normal house and what not. Having some variety would be nice, especially day 1 when you're trying to find a place to stay.

 

Look at it this way: The dungeon is way more difficult to clear on day 1, but the base you can make out if it is also much better than a base from most A16 houses:

 

1) Often there's a cellar already

2) Some already have spikes

3) the railroad pathway through it means a lot of barriers to entry are already in place and lots of funnels to make happy zombies into unhappy bleeding zombies by adding more spikes

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I don't think the developers need to listen to ANYONE who rushes as quickly as possible to power level under whatever system is in place. If you are at endgame "before day 10 and bored by day 20" with the current system then there is nothing that is going to please you. Arbitrary level gates restrict freedom. Even when they were in we had people who power leveled as fast as possible saying that by level 100 on day 30 the game was over.

 

Let people who are going to focus on level ascension through grinding zombies (A17) or mining (A16) or crafting (A15) do what they want to do and be bored with their choice. It is their choice to play that way and it is their choice to complain about it. For those who just play the game and who do not focus on leveling up every moment, the game is still a pleasant journey through the progression. My game is largely unchanged from when we had level gates to what we have now as far as speed of progression. The only difference is more choices and the ability to specialize early game which is a huge plus.

 

The current system is good for team play and it is also good for solo play as long as the player isn't in a rush to get to the top. It allows for specializing early on so that your playthrough can be different each time and your character build can have strengths and weaknesses. All I see is people wanting to completely avoid weaknesses and to get to God level strengths in all areas and then complain that it only took them one week of game time to do it.

 

I guarantee that those players probably burned through the last dozen games they played. Let them move on and burn through a dozen more and not be a factor in forcing everyone else who plays it at the pace of a level or 2 per game day get shafted.

 

That is my opinion.

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Sexy T-Rex - Stam reduction for Melee.

 

after all the changes I want to make sure this applies to weapons as well as tools so hacking a zombie with club OR digging a hole with iron shove.

 

is this correct?

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By lv23 SP I was full lv4 tools/weapons/armor making it so easy to endgame alot quicker than previously.Even if I don't power level,I was able to hit this at day 6.5 with 2hr days on warrior difficulty just by looting a small town.Heck I didnt even kill any roaming hordes or hit any military bases.I personally play survival games for a challenge.

 

I was farming boulders/trees at night and crafting to allow me to loot all day long.When we had level gate,it slowed down this enough that I was getting the forge right before the first horde if I farmed exp harder..

 

My idea of endgame is alot different than say a casual's/MPs view of endgame

Edited by 9nines (see edit history)

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By lv23 SP I was full lv4 tools/weapons/armor making it so easy to endgame alot quicker than previously.Even if I don't power level,I was able to hit this at day 6.5 with 2hr days on warrior difficulty just by looting a small town.Heck I didnt even kill any roaming hordes or hit any military bases.I personally play survival games for a challenge.

 

As a comparison this is lacking a couple areas.

1) You are playing 2 hour days so equivalent of day 13, not 6

2) lvl4 iron tools dont even compare to lvl4 iron tools/weapons/armor in a16 without mods

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Sorry but I disagree. I play games in the most efficient way, the point is the most efficient way should not allows you to reach end game by day 5.

 

The way you put it well I could spec into ranged and play melee because melee is easy with all the perks. Or I could try to clear poi's punching zombies. Or I could just clear one poi and stay there, starve to death, respawn, starve to death again and wouldnt be at end game by day 100.

 

Well, I disagree that you're playing the most efficient way. How do you like those apples? :playful:

Find a forge within 1-2 days, no points needed in the beginning, that can be put into other areas.

 

Please consider add level gates back, without it we're back at A16 end game before day 10, bored at day 20.

 

If you start a game, do the basic quests, get 1 point into crusher and anoter into rex so you can easily deal with zombies then go to the trader. After that you need to kill only 51 arlenes to have enough points for the forge. Just need farm boulder for the anvil, get you farm started and well congrats day 2 or 3 you're out of early game.

 

Don't listen that much for people complaining, if they want all challenge removed from the game there are options for that like creative, disable enemies, zombies always walk... plenty options to make it easier, there is no reason to dumb down everything like A16.

 

Please consider this, most people complained about the same issue during A16. You guys released a great A17 experimental and then update after update looks more like A16, which is sad.

 

So which is it? The end of Day 5, or Day 10?

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I don't think the developers need to listen to ANYONE who rushes as quickly as possible to power level under whatever system is in place. If you are at endgame "before day 10 and bored by day 20" with the current system then there is nothing that is going to please you. Arbitrary level gates restrict freedom. Even when they were in we had people who power leveled as fast as possible saying that by level 100 on day 30 the game was over.

 

Let people who are going to focus on level ascension through grinding zombies (A17) or mining (A16) or crafting (A15) do what they want to do and be bored with their choice. It is their choice to play that way and it is their choice to complain about it. For those who just play the game and who do not focus on leveling up every moment, the game is still a pleasant journey through the progression. My game is largely unchanged from when we had level gates to what we have now as far as speed of progression. The only difference is more choices and the ability to specialize early game which is a huge plus.

 

The current system is good for team play and it is also good for solo play as long as the player isn't in a rush to get to the top. It allows for specializing early on so that your playthrough can be different each time and your character build can have strengths and weaknesses. All I see is people wanting to completely avoid weaknesses and to get to God level strengths in all areas and then complain that it only took them one week of game time to do it.

 

I guarantee that those players probably burned through the last dozen games they played. Let them move on and burn through a dozen more and not be a factor in forcing everyone else who plays it at the pace of a level or 2 per game day get shafted.

 

That is my opinion.

 

I strongly disagree.

 

I never farmed screamers in A17 and with level gate I was able to unlock forge at day 6. Not in a rush, just playing the game, clear POI's, kill wandering hordes and that's all. No cheesy power level.

 

Main issue is, if you play in an efficient way and by that I DO NO MEAN FARM SCREAMERS, you should not be able to reach end game by day 5. The current way force people to play in the most casual way to make progression slower. I wont clear that dungeon because I dont want the levels. i wont make a forge because that is just easy. I wont buy any perks because they make the game easy.

 

You must consider what is the optimal way to play the game? oh this way, ok. If players do that when they reach end game? And balance from that.

 

Not like oh people will screw around and will reach end game by day 200. So lets make everything easier so those people can reach end game by day 20.

 

edit: If you get 1 level per 60 minutes days you're basically doing nothing. avg 10k exp per level t the start, 1 zombie gives 550, some give more. To get 1 level all you need to do is clear 1 poi and few more zombies, doesnt even need to be a dungeon. Or kill a wandering horde and few more zombies. Just need to play the game.

Edited by Sarsante
added some stuff (see edit history)

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Well, I disagree that you're playing the most efficient way. How do you like those apples? :playful:

Find a forge within 1-2 days, no points needed in the beginning, that can be put into other areas.

 

 

 

So which is it? The end of Day 5, or Day 10?

 

To be fair if you dont perk to forge and then the next one you cant make anything (tools, weapons) you still would have to loot tier4 set of tools/weapons and make the iron to repair them to do better than perking to the forge.

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As a comparison this is lacking a couple areas.

1) You are playing 2 hour days so equivalent of day 13, not 6

2) lvl4 iron tools dont even compare to lvl4 iron tools/weapons/armor in a16 without mods

 

1. Not everyone plays 30min days lol I know alot of my friends who play and the majority of them play atleast 1hr days.It makes the hordes harder as we can pump out gamestage higher.

2.I had the mods on all my tools easily got from looting or traders.

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Sorry but I disagree. I play games in the most efficient way, the point is the most efficient way should not allows you to reach end game by day 5.

 

The problem with designing the game with your playstyle in mind is that it necessarily restricts freedom because contrary to what you might say about adding more endgame content it wouldn't help. You would speed through that and devour the new content in another 3 or 4 days.

 

The problem is that you do not enjoy the journey and this game is all about experiencing the journey and contrary to some ridiculous notion that players like you are forced to play the most efficiently it absolutely is your choice.

 

Pimps need to continue to allow players the freedom to progress and specialize as they see fit regardless of whether it means speedsters can get to endgame in 5 game days. If they decide to slow down and take in the journey their problem will be solved and if not they can just move along and devour their next several games and post their times in those games' forums.

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I strongly disagree.

 

I never farmed screamers in A17 and with level gate I was able to unlock forge at day 6. Not in a rush, just playing the game, clear POI's, kill wandering hordes and that's all. No cheesy power level.

 

Main issue is, if you play in an efficient way and by that I DO NO MEAN FARM SCREAMERS, you should not be able to reach end game by day 5. The current way force people to play in the most casual way to make progression slower. I wont clear that dungeon because I dont want the levels. i wont make a forge because that is just easy. I wont buy any perks because they make the game easy.

 

You must consider what is the optimal way to play the game? oh this way, ok. If players do that when they reach end game? And balance from that.

 

Not like oh people will screw around and will reach end game by day 200. So lets make everything easier so those people can reach end game by day 20.

 

So to you endgame = midgrade and midlevel tools and a decent melee? hmm

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To be fair if you dont perk to forge and then the next one you cant make anything (tools, weapons) you still would have to loot tier4 set of tools/weapons and make the iron to repair them to do better than perking to the forge.

 

Hit the barns or tool shops and youll get iron tools commonly.I found a forge house they have replaced since last update but had iron tools by like day 2 and was able to repair them.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

So to you endgame = midgrade and midlevel tools and a decent melee? hmm

 

Endgame to me is lv6 all tools/all weapons/all armor with ability to do whatever I want.Being able to defend my base without cheesing the horde.Being able to do top tier poi without worring about ammo costs.Having fully modded out gear.

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I don't think the developers need to listen to ANYONE who rushes as quickly as possible to power level under whatever system is in place. If you are at endgame "before day 10 and bored by day 20" with the current system then there is nothing that is going to please you. Arbitrary level gates restrict freedom. Even when they were in we had people who power leveled as fast as possible saying that by level 100 on day 30 the game was over.

 

Let people who are going to focus on level ascension through grinding zombies (A17) or mining (A16) or crafting (A15) do what they want to do and be bored with their choice. It is their choice to play that way and it is their choice to complain about it. For those who just play the game and who do not focus on leveling up every moment, the game is still a pleasant journey through the progression. My game is largely unchanged from when we had level gates to what we have now as far as speed of progression. The only difference is more choices and the ability to specialize early game which is a huge plus.

 

The current system is good for team play and it is also good for solo play as long as the player isn't in a rush to get to the top. It allows for specializing early on so that your playthrough can be different each time and your character build can have strengths and weaknesses. All I see is people wanting to completely avoid weaknesses and to get to God level strengths in all areas and then complain that it only took them one week of game time to do it.

 

I guarantee that those players probably burned through the last dozen games they played. Let them move on and burn through a dozen more and not be a factor in forcing everyone else who plays it at the pace of a level or 2 per game day get shafted.

 

That is my opinion.

 

Couldn't agree more, well said.

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Please consider add level gates back, without it we're back at A16 end game before day 10, bored at day 20.

 

If you start a game, do the basic quests, get 1 point into crusher and anoter into rex so you can easily deal with zombies then go to the trader. After that you need to kill only 51 arlenes to have enough points for the forge. Just need farm boulder for the anvil, get you farm started and well congrats day 2 or 3 you're out of early game.

 

Don't listen that much for people complaining, if they want all challenge removed from the game there are options for that like creative, disable enemies, zombies always walk... plenty options to make it easier, there is no reason to dumb down everything like A16.

 

Please consider this, most people complained about the same issue during A16. You guys released a great A17 experimental and then update after update looks more like A16, which is sad.

 

But how do level gates change this? In all of our games in A17 with level gates intact we had a working forge before day 5, often on day 2. You probably have done the same, right? Why wait for level 20 when so many forges were sitting around? We also had all iron tools from scavenging and from the trader by day 5. Would level gates change anything with that?

 

There is already a positive change in b233. They made the anvil more expensive. If anything, this is the right direction. Add a schematic and more expensive materials to craft it. Or simply put anvil higher on the perk tree.

 

 

By lv23 SP I was full lv4 tools/weapons/armor making it so easy to endgame alot quicker than previously.Even if I don't power level,I was able to hit this at day 6.5 with 2hr days on warrior difficulty just by looting a small town.Heck I didnt even kill any roaming hordes or hit any military bases.I personally play survival games for a challenge.

 

So you play 2hr days and on lower than highest difficulty and talk about not having a chellenge? Maybe that's the problem right there :smile-new:

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To be fair if you dont perk to forge and then the next one you cant make anything (tools, weapons) you still would have to loot tier4 set of tools/weapons and make the iron to repair them to do better than perking to the forge.

 

I just use the traders and quests to get most of my needs in the beginning. I only get the forge, when I'm ready to build. Stuff is everywhere and plentiful on default settings. Getting the forge on day one doesn't really change anything in that aspect.

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I strongly disagree.

 

I never farmed screamers in A17 and with level gate I was able to unlock forge at day 6. Not in a rush, just playing the game, clear POI's, kill wandering hordes and that's all. No cheesy power level.

 

Main issue is, if you play in an efficient way and by that I DO NO MEAN FARM SCREAMERS, you should not be able to reach end game by day 5. The current way force people to play in the most casual way to make progression slower. I wont clear that dungeon because I dont want the levels. i wont make a forge because that is just easy. I wont buy any perks because they make the game easy.

 

You must consider what is the optimal way to play the game? oh this way, ok. If players do that when they reach end game? And balance from that.

 

Not like oh people will screw around and will reach end game by day 200. So lets make everything easier so those people can reach end game by day 20.

 

edit: If you get 1 level per 60 minutes days you're basically doing nothing. avg 10k exp per level t the start, 1 zombie gives 550, some give more. To get 1 level all you need to do is clear 1 poi and few more zombies, doesnt even need to be a dungeon. Or kill a wandering horde and few more zombies. Just need to play the game.

 

Please define what you mean by endgame.

What level are you on by Day 5? (You need to be level 21 at a minimum to reach the max of one attribute tree with zero perks purchased)

When you say "clear a POI" do you mean loot it completely or kill every sleeper or both?

How long are your days?

What difficulty are playing?

What speeds are your zombies set to?

 

How do you account for complaints from OTHER players that the new system is too slow? Why aren't they at endgame by day 5 and not only that why do they feel that endgame is way beyond the amount of time they can put in?

Edited by Roland (see edit history)

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The problem with designing the game with your playstyle in mind is that it necessarily restricts freedom because contrary to what you might say about adding more endgame content it wouldn't help. You would speed through that and devour the new content in another 3 or 4 days.

 

The problem is that you do not enjoy the journey and this game is all about experiencing the journey and contrary to some ridiculous notion that players like you are forced to play the most efficiently it absolutely is your choice.

 

Pimps need to continue to allow players the freedom to progress and specialize as they see fit regardless of whether it means speedsters can get to endgame in 5 game days. If they decide to slow down and take in the journey their problem will be solved and if not they can just move along and devour their next several games and post their times in those games' forums.

 

It seems you have a biased view of us "speedsters".We dont want to clear the game and brag about it but instead we wanna hit the hard stuff as early game is a piece of cake.If I dont see atleast 2-4 glowing zombies and cops in my first horde,ive been slacking becuase that means it is too easy.I play on warrior difficulty to make them hard but not bullet sponges and I even play with machete as it makes me have less reach so more of a chance of getting hit.

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1. Not everyone plays 30min days lol I know alot of my friends who play and the majority of them play atleast 1hr days.It makes the hordes harder as we can pump out gamestage higher.

2.I had the mods on all my tools easily got from looting or traders.

 

1) I made no comment about 30 min days. The default is 1 hour. The number of people dont play vanilla settings is irrelevant. Also longer days does not "pump out a higher gamestage" it restricts it since gamestage is calculated by "number of days alive" so you playing longer days only gives you less of a chance to get a higher gamestage. It also counts you level so at best it would be comparable if you are leveling alot, but not higher.

 

2) Having mods by day 13 sounds about right.

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But how do level gates change this? In all of our games in A17 with level gates intact we had a working forge before day 5, often on day 2. You probably have done the same, right? Why wait for level 20 when so many forges were sitting around? We also had all iron tools from scavenging and from the trader by day 5. Would level gates change anything with that?

 

There is already a positive change in b233. They made the anvil more expensive. If anything, this is the right direction. Add a schematic and more expensive materials to craft it. Or simply put anvil higher on the perk tree.

 

 

 

 

So you play 2hr days and on lower than highest difficulty and talk about not having a chellenge? Maybe that's the problem right there :smile-new:

 

I dont play on the highest difficulty becuase all it does is turn the zombies into bullet sponges.A feral wright takes still a full clip of modded ak to down on warrior and I think two clips on the highest difficulty. May I ask what difficulty you play on and if you play SP?

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Hit the barns or tool shops and youll get iron tools commonly.I found a forge house they have replaced since last update but had iron tools by like day 2 and was able to repair them.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

 

 

Endgame to me is lv6 all tools/all weapons/all armor with ability to do whatever I want.Being able to defend my base without cheesing the horde.Being able to do top tier poi without worring about ammo costs.Having fully modded out gear.

 

1) dont need advice on how to play, Im well past 6000 hours on this game

2) Wow by day 5 on default day length? Thats impressive. 5 hours isnt a long time. If you are playing longer days but then complaining that you get there too quick, thats on you.

Edited by Maynard69 (see edit history)

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Having a forge is far from end game. There are electrical defenses, mods to acquire for armor and weapons, steel and vehicles to unlock and craft for exploring.

 

Having a forge is just a early game goal and achievement, and if you've poured your points hell bent on unlocking it, you've missed putting points you need into melee and survival options.

 

All this noise about the forge and gating the anvil is just rubbish talk people are focusing on.

 

With a17 exp, we've not been near unlocking the 4x4 or gyro to test, and the gyro is an AMAZING game changer for exploration that really changes your perspective on the game world while playing.

 

Question: I'm using a controller, and found all the gyro controls except nose down. You move forward and nose up to climb, but the nose up angle is allowed to be straight up and you then stall. Maybe the up angle max needs to be decreased?

 

How do you nose down? I'm thinking maybe that key wasn't bound on the controller. I put in a bug report on it, as well as the controller bicycle speed toggle... I think it was Madmole who mentioned before the last update that the work on it was completed.

 

Playing with the vehicles some, the sounds are too steady and "drone-y"... maybe alter the engine sounds based on the incline the vehicle is using for speed adjustment... so it varies the engine sound, making it sound like it's working harder or easier depending on if they are going up or downhill? (This might be already planned polish, but I figured I'd mention it just in case. )

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The problem with designing the game with your playstyle in mind is that it necessarily restricts freedom because contrary to what you might say about adding more endgame content it wouldn't help. You would speed through that and devour the new content in another 3 or 4 days.

 

The problem is that you do not enjoy the journey and this game is all about experiencing the journey and contrary to some ridiculous notion that players like you are forced to play the most efficiently it absolutely is your choice.

 

Pimps need to continue to allow players the freedom to progress and specialize as they see fit regardless of whether it means speedsters can get to endgame in 5 game days. If they decide to slow down and take in the journey their problem will be solved and if not they can just move along and devour their next several games and post their times in those games' forums.

 

But they do allow freedom, Ive the freedom to play creative, to set zombies to walk, to reduce exp gain per level to get 20 levels a day, I can disable enemies spawn, want more freedom than that?

 

Now lets think the other way around, what can I do to make the game harder? decrease exp gain to take forever to level up? that will also make gamestage increase at slower pace. I can set zombies to run and increase their damage. that's all the freedom I've.

 

you can see the people who want easy way has plenty more choices to play like they want?

 

also if clear pois is rush content, well they should reduce the amount of zombies to 1 per poi. this way I would level up slowly. they could also remove wandering hordes and 7th night hordes, because how dare you level up by killing zombies? or make that zombie you kill you lose exp, that would make a slow progress as well.

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1) I made no comment about 30 min days. The default is 1 hour. The number of people dont play vanilla settings is irrelevant. Also longer days does not "pump out a higher gamestage" it restricts it since gamestage is calculated by "number of days alive" so you playing longer days only gives you less of a chance to get a higher gamestage. It also counts you level so at best it would be comparable if you are leveling alot, but not higher.

 

2) Having mods by day 13 sounds about right.

 

Game stage is by your gear/how well you are killing/deaths and level.I had all the mods by around day 4 as I lived in between two close traders and looted almost constantly.

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