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Developer Discussions: Alpha 17


Roland

Developer Discussions: Alpha 17  

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  1. 1. Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

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All that really does is support the idea that the system is poorly designed or the UI is poorly designed or both. It should be obvious how hunger and stamina interact, and it isn't. Nor is it particularly intuitive.

 

 

 

In A16 we had a hunger bar that could be monitored separate from stamina. It was easy to learn the relationship because you could watch both change in real time. That's not the case in A17.

 

It took me less than one in game day on b199 to understand how Water, Food, and Stamina are all related. It's not complicated. If they made the bar show the new max and start going down then you would have people still complaining about not being able to keep it at max. They don't need to change anything about how it is displayed at this point.

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So the game is running much smoother, thankfully.

 

.. If you manage to get it to run. I think I've had more crashes, game-not-responding, and the like in this build as with all other builds combined.

 

Is it crashing just before spawn. If yes try start by selecting the save you started, it shows in the list after crash and you can continue.

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Playing Computer games since 1984

 

Really you did it, worst startgame i ever played in all that time.

If you look in wikipedia under "opposite of fluid gameplay" you find a screenshot of level 1-1X of A17

I would explain it, but i am cold, i am hot and i am out of stamina

 

I told you to get out of the biome. You had a whole day.

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I typically don't post in this forum or any other and this may well be my very first post after playing 7DTD for years, but I felt the need to post, so here i am.

 

First off i just want to thank The Fun Pimps for the tremendously entertaining game that they have given us and the incredible improvements made to said game, A17e is by far the best iteration of the game i have played despite its need for a little fine tuning. Please keep the faith and stick to your vision for what this game should be.

 

Secondly I just want to say to all of the players out there that seem to forget that this is a experimental and TFP WILL make improvements and tune things before they commit to a stable release, they always do. For those of you who will want to argue that point, just because they don't make the changes that you want them to doesn't invalidate the changes they do make.

 

So far they have done an excellent job of finding a balance for a horror survival game set in the modern world with default settings that are challenging for a new player.

 

Thank you again, TFP, for an excellent game that is a cut above anything else.

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The point is, hunger is a early game thing. When you got a farm you are fine. ( If not get a bigger farm) but the early game gets a big fun hit, if you have to realy seriously avoid any stamina use at all... better shoot the zombie, less stamina, better don´t run, better dont mine.
We're setting hunger in the middle of where it was and where it is, so it should be a little more forgiving, but not a permanent non issue. Before you could run non stop 2 in game hours at level 1 for only 7% food use.
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Not sure how you define non-issue, but requiring 55+ raw meat (11+ charred)(the 5+ bottled water seemed about right) for a single active day {60min} of digging (with 1 rank in Slow Metabolism on b221) seems excessive. That is multiple deer/boars/wolves. Of course with the changes to slow metabolism for b231 I expect that will require even more.

Only a non-issue when focusing mostly/solely on killing (which seems to be the way we're heading).

 

I ate at 11 pm, mined all night long, rode bike a few km, meleed zombies and by 11 am I was still at 75% with no perks. That is a non issue to me so we increased it. We overshot it too much and are dialing it back.

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It took me less than one in game day on b199 to understand how Water, Food, and Stamina are all related. It's not complicated. If they made the bar show the new max and start going down then you would have people still complaining about not being able to keep it at max. They don't need to change anything about how it is displayed at this point.

 

This. The system is great and provides all the information you need. If I were to suggest improvements I would say to allow the % to show above 100 so people could easily see how far above the maximum bar their overeating was taking them.

 

Oh...and a way to just remove all the hud elements from the screen for a more cinematic playstyle relying only upon sound cues and the "feel" of too low stamina to know when to eat.

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So grind for materials is almost useless again because xp gain is way too low? I was lvlling up reasonably by grinding for materials and building in B221, but now is way too low again.
Seems there are some bugs or unintentional nerfing going on. You should get 150 xp for a large tree not 37 with glasses.
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We're setting hunger in the middle of where it was and where it is, so it should be a little more forgiving, but not a permanent non issue. Before you could run non stop 2 in game hours at level 1 for only 7% food use.

 

Any chance of posting an updated xml for that?

 

I might get a chance to play this evening and I'd rather not spend it cursing at the mechanics when I know they've been improved.

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This. The system is great and provides all the information you need. If I were to suggest improvements I would say to allow the % to show above 100 so people could easily see how far above the maximum bar their overeating was taking them.

 

Oh...and a way to just remove all the hud elements from the screen for a more cinematic playstyle relying only upon sound cues and the "feel" of too low stamina to know when to eat.

 

I disagree that it's great and provides all the information. It's true that most players would not even think that overeating is a thing, since there isn't even a single reference to it, in text or UI. That's bad user experience. It must be added somehow if it's an official mechanic that's going to continue to exist.

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I think B231 heavily favours multiplayer. Lvl gate could still be in place in order to give solo player a different experience. I don't know if it's possible, but ranks of each perk should be tied to player lvl: if a player meet requirement lvl such perk would cost only 1 skill point, otherwise perk would be more expensive. This way if you want to specialize early game it would have a cost, but lvling up all perks slowly would be a thing as well.

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I disagree that it's great and provides all the information. It's true that most players would not even think that overeating is a thing, since there isn't even a single reference to it, in text or UI. That's bad user experience. It must be added somehow if it's an official mechanic that's going to continue to exist.

 

Well of course documentation and tutorials are not completed yet because this is experimental and alpha to boot. Very little is explained and most people who play games in development often get their tutoring on how to play via forums, wikis, and youtube. What I was saying is that the system itself is very nicely put together and once TFP gets to the polishing stage where tooltips, ingame tutorials, and player helps can guide players to know what to do we just have to learn stuff through other means.

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glad you get food that easy, lol. I'm lucky to find 1 animal a day, and maybe 1 egg in every 10 nests. And that's at 100% loot abundance.

 

I am going to make a guess here and say you don't travel a lot. You tend to clear out nearby POIs, or build. When I switched from a builder play style to more of a nomad where I do quests for traders, I started covering a lot more territory and went from 2 spare eggs and 30 feathers to 40 eggs and 500 feathers, and at least 50 meat in my chest by day 5.

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All that really does is support the idea that the system is poorly designed or the UI is poorly designed or both. It should be obvious how hunger and stamina interact, and it isn't. Nor is it particularly intuitive.

 

 

 

In A16 we had a hunger bar that could be monitored separate from stamina. It was easy to learn the relationship because you could watch both change in real time. That's not the case in A17.

 

Read the in game journal. Read the tooltip on food, notice it does not give "fullness" stat, it gives "Stamina" stat. There really IS no "hunger stat. There is only the max stamina stat.

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I never char or grill my meat. I always make bacon and eggs and that gets me through days. First thing I always look for when I start a game is a cooking pot.

 

Yeah I buy the first cooking perk for sure and eat bacon and eggs. Cooking pots are most easily found in those ruins houses where there is nothing left but a kitchen sink. I always have 1-3 cooking pots by the end of day 1.

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I think B231 heavily favours multiplayer. Lvl gate could still be in place in order to give solo player a different experience. I don't know if it's possible, but ranks of each perk should be tied to player lvl: if a player meet requirement lvl such perk would cost only 1 skill point, otherwise perk would be more expensive. This way if you want to specialize early game it would have a cost, but lvling up all perks slowly would be a thing as well.

 

Personally, I think the game should favor co-operative multiplayer and single players should turn down the difficulty if necessary in order to cope. That makes it fun for both styles. Play Nomad as a SP for a challenge or play Adventurer for a more normal SP experience. Play Warrior for a tougher team challenge or Nomad for a normal team challenge.

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