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Developer Discussions: Alpha 17


Roland

Developer Discussions: Alpha 17  

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  1. 1. Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

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I want to find nice goodies as much as the next person, but it should be better and better damage, accuracy, range, silencing, reloading, ammo capacity and aiming type mods, so the slots matter and finding/comparing mods is fun.

 

Shame you cant use them til endgame then isnt it...

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I'm also a big fan of the survival and building aspects of the game and would normally try to skill zombies with traps rather than character weapons. I liked to build big tunnel systems underground but I didn't like how much xp breaking blocks would give especially after you get an auger and a good supply of gas. After several server wipes in a16, I eventually branched out to more of a nomad play style and started to enjoy other aspects of the game. 7DtD can be played a lot of ways and I am really glad there are so many modders that will tweak the game for different play styles. I can't wait to see all the mods for stable a17!

 

Your comment above gave me an idea for a mod where the player levels up based on number of days survived rather than the amount of stuff you kill or build. That would be an interesting take on survival and would slow the progression down. The idea would be that the player gets 1 level's worth of xp per in-game day plus a multiplier for consecutive days survived (with diminishing returns). That would be a mod I'd definitely play!

 

I like your idea!

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This A17 is giving me a blast.

 

First - at the streamers weekend - i saw some streams and thought: omg, you need 100s of arrows to kill zombies.

 

But after starting playing for myself, i adjusted my playstyle. In earlier versions i was tempted to kill each zombie as i saw it.

In A17 i tend to sneak around, looking to avoid zombies if i can get past them without them seeing me. I look at POIs with more respect (can i start getting in there ? Am i prepared enough for the battle?).

 

Even POIs can be cleared easy (the ones without ferals though). I tend to crouch in there, so i do not wake up all zombies, and then i will take them down, one after the other.

With luck and patience you pull one zombie , and then after that one is down you get the next one.

With 1 level of archery and one level of headshot and the use of iron arrows its usually 2 hits - The first one crouched gives a 2 or 2,5 multiplier for damage, and the second arrow kills them.

 

My strategy for A17 is: Playing Rambo gets penalized, not taking precautions gets penalized - and remember: The goal is surviving, that does not mean you have to kill each particular zombie you see.

 

The game transformed: Instead Shoot and loot and build you have now another option: being sneaky. And after some skill points/perks you have a dozen more options choosing your playstyle.

 

And all this makes me very happy.

 

Edit: Most comments in this section are like that: Please make A17 like A16 was, but better, change the game, TFP, please make improvements, but dont change anything im used to.

I would say: Get used to a new play style, try different things/skills/perks/tactics.

 

Edit 2: correcting orthographic error

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I just watched my first lets play of the new alpha 17 experiment and just wish to ask if somebody could answer a few things for me.

Has zombie hit points been massively boosted ? I get the feel the zombies are now just "bullet sponges" and what is up with the no more loot from dead zombies ?

I am slightly worried that the game is now going to be only for groups of players or really good players.

 

No, but I think guns are too weak. We might be increasing their damage.

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This A17 is giving me a blast.

 

First - at the streamers weekend - i saw some streams and thought: omg, you need 100s of arrows to kill zombies.

 

But after starting playing for myself, i adjusted my playstyle. In earlier versions i was tempted to kill each zombie as i saw it.

In A17 i tend to sneak around, looking to avoid zombies if i can get past them without them seeing me. I look at POIs with more respect (can i start getting in there ? Am i prepared enough for the battle?).

 

Even POIs can be cleared easy (the ones without ferals though). I tend to crouch in there, so i do ot wake up all zombies, and then i will take them down, one after the other.

With luck and patience you pull one zombie , and then after that one is down you get the next one.

With 1 level of archery and one level of headshot and the use of iron arrows its usually 2 hits - The first one crouched gives a 2 or 2,5 multiplier for damage, and the second arrow kills them.

 

My strategy for A17 is: Playing Rambo gets penalized, not taking precautions gets penalized - and remember: The goal is surviving, that does not mean you have to kill each particular zombie you see.

 

The game transformed: Instead Shoot and loot and build you have now another option: being sneaky. And after some skill points/perks you have a dozen more options choosing your playstyle.

 

And all this makes me very happy.

 

100% agree and I do it the same way... maybe because we are both Germans...

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The gun part system did that too. As your gun got better it did more damage and etc. Once again, why can't this mod system be coupled with the gun part system?

 

Here's an idea, why not have the gun part system but you can still find fully assembled guns? Just make guns much rarer. This way is a nice middle ground.

 

Because atm... What's the point of looting?

 

If you play the game and don't loot anything, I think it would be pretty hard.

 

My next game I'm playing on 50% loot as a test.

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Wonder if adding a few more options in the Game Options -> Block Durability might be a win?

 

Right now it offers 25, 50, 100 & 200% (I think). Add in 125, 150, 175. Heck maybe even 225, 250.

 

This is coming from dev comments on what the Difficulty changes, which I think was just Damage Player does & Damage Z's do to Players.

 

Point would be, maybe, that those that like to build early on would have a pretty focused option to make that a bit more doable, and could notch it back to keep the pressure on.

 

Just a thought :)

 

Edit: damn it. I wouldn't want this to effect boulders, dirt, etc., and I have no idea if it does or not...

 

I actually like that idea. It would be awesome to have a skill perk or two that you can put points in to do something to your base to increase durability. I'm not sure how it would be done, it makes my head hurt thinking about it .... but that would be an awesome skill.

 

Edit: and after rereading, that wasn't what was meant by the original poster. But I still like my idea. :D

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Any news on if we might get a new build today? I know bugs prevented yesterday but hopefully today.

 

The nasty bugs from yesterday are probably fixed. b207 is being built. Testers will determine where we are at.

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The gun part system did that too. As your gun got better it did more damage and etc. Once again, why can't this mod system be coupled with the gun part system?

 

Here's an idea, why not have the gun part system but you can still find fully assembled guns? Just make guns much rarer. This way is a nice middle ground.

 

Because atm... What's the point of looting?

 

uhm, the point atm is simply experimental play with bug reporting to assist development. ATM

 

apologies for the knee jerk. of course your feedback on how the game plays atm is at least as important.

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When the game is really flowing for me, I'm not even aware of what my XP is and I'm kind of lost in the moment and not grinding away. I think the balance will come and I've definitely had more moments of this than not so far in A17E. As for the abundance of guns, is it so strange? Of the 393 million guns in the US, I think we can expect quite a few out and about if the population is vastly reduced (say a few hundred thousand) in the scenario of the game. I would think most people would have hundreds of guns eventually.

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Shame you cant use them til endgame then isnt it...

 

What is with the attitude? Did you look into the future and see how it will end up? If you can't wait that long, feel free to change the values in the xml files to exactly what you want.

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You talked to a hundred people then and have a percent for me? I've seen a similar amount of people both for and against it, but that is a small sample size, so I don't claim to know the public's opinion, only my own.

 

I'd rather have mods make the guns more effective and varied. Ammo the limiter of constant use.

 

I also don't make these decisions. Owners/designers do. I just make stuff work. I have an opinion and voice it sometimes, but game companies are generally not democracies. Typically the employees who care about a feature and have an opinion may voice it and decision maker(s) may or may not listen to it or themselves or the public.

 

Before my employment here, as simply a player of A14-A16, I thought it made no sense, since I'm a gun owner and I don't have parts lying around. If I did, then almost none of these parts are interchangeable even across the same gun type, since different manufacturers have different specs on all these parts (AR15 a possible exception). In the end, I did not feel the need to complain to the world. I said whatever and kept on having fun as I absurdly filled my weapons chest with useless gun parts.

 

Theres actually a poll made by a player in the general forum, when i checked it there was around 150 answers. I think the loot part was around 45% in fayvor of the old system.

 

I dont think the new system is bad, not at all. I would like to have a mix of both, keeping the gun parts (perhaps toggable?) and im loving the mod system. The biggest thing for me with the gun parts was that you could slowly add small upgrades until you capped ql or near cap which for me added a sense of progression and actually got attached to some guns since i worked on the same pistol for ex from ql 200 to 500ish+. We now have a factory and it wouldnt be impossible for shotgun messiah to have a shop in the back where they repaired weapons and it got looted and such the parts got spread out.

 

In 16.x you could find complete guns and just scrap the parts, in 17.x (as of now atleast) you only find complete guns and cant really do anything with them until lvl30ish or something?

 

Anyhow, the reply is getting to long and i want to go back to my base. :)

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Theres actually a poll made by a player in the general forum, when i checked it there was around 150 answers. I think the loot part was around 45% in fayvor of the old system.

 

I dont think the new system is bad, not at all. I would like to have a mix of both, keeping the gun parts (perhaps toggable?) and im loving the mod system. The biggest thing for me with the gun parts was that you could slowly add small upgrades until you capped ql or near cap which for me added a sense of progression and actually got attached to some guns since i worked on the same pistol for ex from ql 200 to 500ish+. We now have a factory and it wouldnt be impossible for shotgun messiah to have a shop in the back where they repaired weapons and it got looted and such the parts got spread out.

 

In 16.x you could find complete guns and just scrap the parts, in 17.x (as of now atleast) you only find complete guns and cant really do anything with them until lvl30ish or something?

 

Anyhow, the reply is getting to long and i want to go back to my base. :)

 

Well the problem with forum polls regarding this kind of thing is that on the forum you will allways find a lot of people complaing probably even the 45% for the change came to the forums to complaing about something and ended up seeing and voting in the poll

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I just watched my first lets play of the new alpha 17 experiment and just wish to ask if somebody could answer a few things for me.

Has zombie hit points been massively boosted ? I get the feel the zombies are now just "bullet sponges" and what is up with the no more loot from dead zombies ?

I am slightly worried that the game is now going to be only for groups of players or really good players.

 

Okay ... I am NOT a "really good player" ... I am spastic, I can't aim worth poop, and if i get ambushed I tend to run exactly the WRONG way ... and into or off of something.

 

That being said ... depending on the settings you're playing on ... this game is okay for a less than optimal player. You have to remember though, things are a bit different, so you try around until you find a play style that works for you. Also ... sneaking is your friend. That first 2.5x sneak bonus is essential ... and you can snipe them with a bow and wake one sleeper instead of the whole house.

 

For the GOOD players ... they're racking them up. For me, I'm mostly alive, and enjoying myself. I have to figure out what has changed with the building system though, because my build just collapsed when (in my opinion) it should have had more than enough support.

 

As for "bullet sponges" ... guns don't do as much damage off the bat. I don't really play with them on this version, because they are very loud, and noises really do attract trouble and 2) ammo is such a pain in the rear end. I love the bow ... decent damage, you can perk that up relatively quickly for the first levels ... it's silent, the ammo is relatively easy to find and make.

 

Later I will likely go to one of the modded guns ... but for now I love the bow.

 

OH! And something I LOVE and forgot to mention ... when you sell your guns to the trader, it automatically unloads them and gives you back the ammo!!! No more manually unloading them before you sell them ... LOVE it.

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My $0.02 on build 199:

 

Just about everything is better than alpha 16. Seriously, good job. I know you know this already, but felt it worth mentioning.

 

The attribute gating feels artificial and too slow. Being able to raise an attribute every 5 levels would probably feel more natural but you still don't have enough points to exploit it. Allows for really specialist builds, that's all. Things like the mod schematics being useless until you're level, what, 50? Not in game right now to check that.

 

Too many guns. Would be nice to see maybe 2/3 the guns but more ammo in the gun safes. (yeah, I know each gun has ammo, but guns are one of our main sources of income now)

 

Melee combat feels a bit janky. If your crosshair isn't quite on the zombie you miss, even if it's a large weapon and you swing right through their airspace. Maybe a reduced damage hit for those situations? I'm pretty sure swinging through a zombie's armpit should impact something...or right above where its shoulder meets its head...

 

Admittedly I didn't use the fireaxe much, but I never severed a leg and I really expected to sever at least one. Had some one-block-offset situations where I had clean shots to their legs while they were expanding an opening and the lack of limb removal was glaring.

 

The kickback when shooting a bow feels like too much.

 

Do snowberries as a standalone edible not do anything, or is it just so slight I haven't seen an effect? I'm wondering if they're no more than an ingredient now.

 

Snow biome with overcoat and fairly decent clothing for cold weather didn't seem to affect me at all for a few minutes, then all of a sudden I'm about to die from hypothermia. Could stand to have a few more temperature cues between "ok" and "dead" instead of needing checking the character stats constantly. Now that I think about it I didn't check the bug list for if this is known...my bad.

 

I'm glad zombie xp and other-activity xp are being rebalanced because it really felt like the only reasonable way to level was to seek out every zombie possible, and that was a bit disheartening. Especially because now almost all you get is xp, and couldn't carry off much loot if it were to drop. I've always made little stash chests all over but in a17e199 it's just about 1 per building.

 

A little bit heavy on the breaking floors. In POI's as a story thing, sure, but some of the starter houses every other floorboard breaking just got annoying.

 

Speaking of story/dungeon POI's vs. plain buildings, feels a bit like too many buildings are complicated now. Not everything has to be a dungeon/story. It's ok to have boring little simple buildings. Really. Makes the story ones even more special.

 

Magazines feel like they're too common. Maybe it's that other things aren't as common, or don't exist anymore, or something. Not sure. Finding a lot of magazines, though.

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I haven't been around the forums for any of the other major updates, so maybe someone more senior can say if people just generally complain no matter what (cuz, you know...the internet) or if these changes are all that much more drastic than any of the other experimental builds we've had?

 

I've played since A9, and its been a long and fantastic ride. TFP haven't let me down so far and this build has only been out a few days, so I'm trying to stay optimistic about the changes. I do wonder though if it would have made any difference to introduce some of these things incrementally over the last 12 months instead of all in one go? I'm sure there are reasons; i'm just curious if the discussion would be the same had there been some more time for feedback and testing and such...

 

just food for thought... Thanks TFP for all the hard work!

 

LOL Both. :)

 

The same thing happened when they changed from 15 to 16. You'd think people were being carved up with axes or poked with burning, poisonous sticks.

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New build went out about 15 minutes ago. It usually takes them about 1-1.5 hours to test a build. Of course this depends on what they are testing.

 

It's like Christmas Eve when you're a kid ... every hour lasts for approximately a thousand years.

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