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Developer Discussions: Alpha 17


Roland

Developer Discussions: Alpha 17  

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  1. 1. Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

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The weapon mod system is way better in my opinion.

If we get more mods in the future from simple to military style mods and we could really think about what mods are better for my play style I would never think of the old system again.

More variety and more options will change everything.

 

I never used a sledgehammer in the last Alphas but now I like to change and use different guns/tools more often because of the mods I find or craft AND what my next task is about. Going looting, hunting, hordenight, building, farming. I always change my hole stuff I’m caring on that tasks.

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Except for the real bugs, I think people are complaining too much! The level of crying is too damn high!

 

My real concern is about the level up process.

 

I think A17 is an amazing update but I don't like the idea of "zombie hunt game" and this alpha looks like that. Snoman wrote a post about approaching that matter on page 2836 (post #42534) and I replayed two pages after (post #42570).

 

Everyone use TWD as reference and zombie killing in the show only occurs when is really necessary. I started to play the game at A14, and since A16 I’ve been seen this movement towards “zombie hunt game” and I don’t like it.

 

I thought 7DtD was a survival/constructing game (the real reason I love this game so much!), so the main activity to obtain XP should not be killing zombies.

 

I want to know the opinion of MM, Roland, Gaaz, Faatal and the rest of TFP team.

 

I'm also a big fan of the survival and building aspects of the game and would normally try to skill zombies with traps rather than character weapons. I liked to build big tunnel systems underground but I didn't like how much xp breaking blocks would give especially after you get an auger and a good supply of gas. After several server wipes in a16, I eventually branched out to more of a nomad play style and started to enjoy other aspects of the game. 7DtD can be played a lot of ways and I am really glad there are so many modders that will tweak the game for different play styles. I can't wait to see all the mods for stable a17!

 

Your comment above gave me an idea for a mod where the player levels up based on number of days survived rather than the amount of stuff you kill or build. That would be an interesting take on survival and would slow the progression down. The idea would be that the player gets 1 level's worth of xp per in-game day plus a multiplier for consecutive days survived (with diminishing returns). That would be a mod I'd definitely play!

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I just watched my first lets play of the new alpha 17 experiment and just wish to ask if somebody could answer a few things for me.

Has zombie hit points been massively boosted ? I get the feel the zombies are now just "bullet sponges" and what is up with the no more loot from dead zombies ?

I am slightly worried that the game is now going to be only for groups of players or really good players.

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Hey Jax, did you notice this line in the XML.txt file? `Degradation: Any default value, the weapon quality system will change this later, it just has to be set.`

:smile-new:

 

I did , but look a few lines up and there is this

 

"WEAPON PARTS EXAMPLE (obsolete in A17+)"

 

So we are back to :sadface

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That's my point, wolffblood.

 

I play like you do. I don't "hunt zombies down". I only kill those who came towards me (all of them) and the game flows well for me too, but if you don't do that level up will be a major issue.

 

Harvest, build and base defense only are an instinctive form of playing the game (we play beyond that) and, in my opinion, that play style is the great appeal of the game, so concern me when development creates a situation harmful to that.

 

Only bad thing, is if they inc xp everywhere else, then it will only help those that hide from every zombie. It will inc those of us that don't go looking for zombies, but at least fights and does everything. We will level so freaking fast through the gamestages that it will then cause us issues real quick since we're not always scavenging for stuff. They would need to move gamestages around a bit, and probably a lot of other things too. Just inc xp for crafting/building won't solve anything, that's the problem. So until we get all the features in, xp gains will be very hard to get right. Because say they get it perfect right now, as they add more features and things to do, they then have to screw with xp again to then get it perfect again. All they can do is get it the best they can for now, then perfect it after all or at least majority of features are in.

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I just watched my first lets play of the new alpha 17 experiment and just wish to ask if somebody could answer a few things for me.

Has zombie hit points been massively boosted ? I get the feel the zombies are now just "bullet sponges" and what is up with the no more loot from dead zombies ?

I am slightly worried that the game is now going to be only for groups of players or really good players.

 

 

I've been playing on Nomad and what I've found is that at lvl 1 the normal zombies take about 4-5 stone arrows or 3-4 wooden club power melee attacks to get down. Once you start taking some perks, the total starts to decrease. I haven't run into any of the irradiateds yet to say. Some people do think that base gun damage is a bit too low.

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I've been playing on Nomad and what I've found is that at lvl 1 the normal zombies take about 4-5 stone arrows or 3-4 wooden club power melee attacks to get down. Once you start taking some perks, the total starts to decrease. I haven't run into any of the irradiateds yet to say. Some people do think that base gun damage is a bit too low.

 

Yea I find that they take a lot more gun shots then they did. Almost feels easier to use bow/club.

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I just watched my first lets play of the new alpha 17 experiment and just wish to ask if somebody could answer a few things for me.

Has zombie hit points been massively boosted ? I get the feel the zombies are now just "bullet sponges" and what is up with the no more loot from dead zombies ?

I am slightly worried that the game is now going to be only for groups of players or really good players.

 

It is just a balance issue. Once they get mods in better and a few more things, they will balance guns more. Madmole has already stated they didn't mean for guns to do so little to zombies.

 

As for loot, there is a 2% drop from normal and 3% drop from feral/radiated. When they do drop stuff, typically it will be worthwhile things. Most loot got moved to scavenging/quests/traders/POIs for now.

 

I'm doing SP and I've had little issues, actually more fun than A16.4, personally. If you don't think you are that good, drop difficulty, raise loot abundance, put on Always Walk, shorter time for airdrops, and drop BM horde count. That's just a few things to be able to do and be able to play without many issues.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

Question! Did they take out POI's that were in the last alpha? If so which ones?

 

I haven't seen any skyscrapers and a bunch of fun old dungeon type buildings!

 

I hope we get them back if they are out!

 

I hear that's an unintended issue with RWG. They are working on fixing it now. For some reason, large cities, skyscrapers, the like are not being generated. If it's in Navezgane, then I've seen those, lol.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

I've been playing on Nomad and what I've found is that at lvl 1 the normal zombies take about 4-5 stone arrows or 3-4 wooden club power melee attacks to get down. Once you start taking some perks, the total starts to decrease. I haven't run into any of the irradiateds yet to say. Some people do think that base gun damage is a bit too low.

 

It is, especially if you get headshots. I'd think because of the power attacks, it's made melee become stronger than guns, though guns will be more effective later on due to being able to attack faster. Madmole stated they will balance it throughout experimental. Personally, I'd hope for more damage, less ammo found.

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I see people complaining about too many guns being looted and I see people complaining that the game is too difficult and that they keep dying over and over.... Where does the complaining end?

 

Change is difficult. I think many got accustomed to their own way of enjoying 7DTD in the state it was in. It's tough to step back and remind yourself that this is still an Alpha game. I mean... hell... i had to click on a dropdown menu and select "latest experimental build".

 

I'm frustrated too; but experiments tend to get messy. We've been here before and the game got much better through the process. Personally, I'm taking a break until we get a more stable build. No sense in getting all worked up over things i know the guys have already got patched, eh?

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I truly hated the gun parts aspect of a16, but the complaints of the non-degrading and too plentiful guns in a17 are warranted complaints. Arsenals of guns in player chests have become the new unused schematics of a16. I trust the Pimps will work something out. Though, unused guns can still be sold at the traders for coin, so it's not a serious issue by any means. Think of spare guns as trading currency.

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You talked to a hundred people then and have a percent for me? I've seen a similar amount of people both for and against it, but that is a small sample size, so I don't claim to know the public's opinion, only my own.

 

I'd rather have mods make the guns more effective and varied. Ammo the limiter of constant use.

 

I also don't make these decisions. Owners/designers do. I just make stuff work. I have an opinion and voice it sometimes, but game companies are generally not democracies. Typically the employees who care about a feature and have an opinion may voice it and decision maker(s) may or may not listen to it or themselves or the public.

 

Before my employment here, as simply a player of A14-A16, I thought it made no sense, since I'm a gun owner and I don't have parts lying around. If I did, then almost none of these parts are interchangeable even across the same gun type, since different manufacturers have different specs on all these parts (AR15 a possible exception). In the end, I did not feel the need to complain to the world. I said whatever and kept on having fun as I absurdly filled my weapons chest with useless gun parts.

 

This game is hardly realistic to begin with. Also, how many years after the apocalypse is this? Makes sense that after the looting we would be picking at scraps. I would gladly sacrifice some realism for fun. Because this new system is progression killing. Still can't see why we can't have gun parts and mods.

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I agree that it was probably not the most realistic to find parts just lying around however it gave scavengers something to look forward to.

 

Hopefully the new wpn/armor modding system can be as fun and not just for endgame.

 

I want to find nice goodies as much as the next person, but it should be better and better damage, accuracy, range, silencing, reloading, ammo capacity and aiming type mods, so the slots matter and finding/comparing mods is fun.

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I want to find nice goodies as much as the next person, but it should be better and better damage, accuracy, range, silencing, reloading, ammo capacity and aiming type mods, so the slots matter and finding/comparing mods is fun.

 

The gun part system did that too. As your gun got better it did more damage and etc. Once again, why can't this mod system be coupled with the gun part system?

 

Here's an idea, why not have the gun part system but you can still find fully assembled guns? Just make guns much rarer. This way is a nice middle ground.

 

Because atm... What's the point of looting?

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I haven't been around the forums for any of the other major updates, so maybe someone more senior can say if people just generally complain no matter what (cuz, you know...the internet) or if these changes are all that much more drastic than any of the other experimental builds we've had?

 

I've played since A9, and its been a long and fantastic ride. TFP haven't let me down so far and this build has only been out a few days, so I'm trying to stay optimistic about the changes. I do wonder though if it would have made any difference to introduce some of these things incrementally over the last 12 months instead of all in one go? I'm sure there are reasons; i'm just curious if the discussion would be the same had there been some more time for feedback and testing and such...

 

just food for thought... Thanks TFP for all the hard work!

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Edit: Almost forgot. Player bags need to stay around a bit longer. Died 10 in game minutes before night and my bag went poof at 5:20AM the next morning. There was zero chance I was getting that bag back.

 

We are upping that. I think x3.

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No, it's not. If you want to level up at least 1lv per day, especially in early game, you only can do that properly by killing zeds. Harvesting end other activities give you little XP (not enough to gain 1level/day), but the easiest zed gives 700 XP per kill, so if you want to construct better things and obtain best gear you have to focus on killing first till you have enough level to made quality level goods.

 

That’s an inversion of logic! In the beginning we are weak, so killing zombies should not be the first/best option to level up.

 

Like I've said before. This is not done. We are still playing and doing a lot of balancing. Zombie xp is coming down and other xp up. I think.

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I think that the current weapon level system is more "real life oriented". And I like it.

 

I mean, a single bullet of an AK47 will do the same damage if the rifle is old or brand new.

 

A brand new weapon tho gives you the chance to attach more gadgets, like silencers, lights... > MODS

 

Eh... Wrong. Shifted chamber will get worse case obturation, worn off barrell will give you gas leaking and faulted spinnage. This all will lead to less stable and slower bullet, which often will lead to lesser damage (taking aside lucky bounces of jacketed bullet performing like hollow point).

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