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Developer Discussions: Alpha 17


Roland

Developer Discussions: Alpha 17  

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  1. 1. Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

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could a dev please explain how the generator fule burn is calculated

Im trying to cut the burn rate by half but on this line

"OutputPerFuel" value="11250"

if I double that it seems the burn rate is so slow a full tank will last forever

I dont know how that number is related to anything and I just cant figure out the correct setting to get that 50% reduction in consumption

 

If 2x is too much, try 1.5x. If that’s too much try 1.25.

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...

 

If you know your building efforts will fail, then where is the motivation to try.

...

 

Like other players I found an easy way to build my base safe from this new AI.

And when you fill find it too, you will notice that it is simpler than before. :tongue1:

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It it not an oversight, since we intentionally removed it. I hated it and I don't think any of us are wanting to bring it back.

 

I agree that it was probably not the most realistic to find parts just lying around however it gave scavengers something to look forward to.

 

Hopefully the new wpn/armor modding system can be as fun and not just for endgame.

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I'm not sure guns are a problem loot wise - I'm on day 22, and yes have a few guns, but i'm not drowning in them, it was also a good way to earn some money from the trader, though just enough to get a few needed items, I'm not rich from it. The guns i've been looting are low quality as well, and also ammo is becomming the problem as I still can't craft it, so looting is needed to keep getting ammo for horde nights. Also as oil isn't found too often, so repair kits to keep these low quality guns maintained is also something I want, so I'm looting for oil etc. Plus the chance to find a good quality one so I don't need to keep repairing.

 

There seems to be a big variance due to the RNG hating on you. First released build I had a dozen pistols before day 10, plenty of repair kits and was good on food because there was a boar or deer everywhere. Second build I nearly starved and managed to find a shotgun for horde night. I did manage to find a ridiculous number of acid bottles....maybe it was trying to tell me something.

 

But yeah it's like if you get in a bad groove with the way the numbers fall it takes forever to get out of it.

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It it not an oversight, since we intentionally removed it. I hated it and I don't think any of us are wanting to bring it back.

 

Thank god. I hate hate hate hate those gun parts in A16. Hate them. Although, I do kinda miss the free iron scrap ... because that's what i did with them. Find ... scrap. Find ... cuss ... scrap.

 

I do however very much miss experience for upgrading blocks. Can live without it ... but really miss it.

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The new POIs are amazing, especially in Navezgane, I have a habit of going to Diersvill and taking over houses there. I just ran the Cleaner thingy and wiped all my saves, then started a new Creative game to finally explore and try out all of the new shiny things while we are still in experimental. Started by building my own big fancy modern house just outside of town near the West bridge, filled it's garage with one of each vehicle, then promptly ate the bridge on my first test drive of the jeep while trying to cross it...

 

I know this has come up before, remember Faatal saying that leveling them with the road is complicated somehow, but, aw. I am afraid of destroying every bridge when I try to cross it. I sincerely hope a solution to this arises, eventually. At first I had my garage one block high, level with the floor of house, but of course the same prob came up, I destroyed the driveway ramp going back into it(love the new garage door btw). My solution was to lower the garage floor to ground level, then use plate for the driveway and garage floor. It worked, no destroy, but the garage door didn't go down all the way and looked really nope. So then I dug up a block worth of dirt and put down concrete, that worked, but I get that funny gap between the dirt and block, still best solution so far, and if it bothers me too much I can border it with plates to cover that gap nicely.

 

Anyway, some notes on building/structures:

 

- The aforementioned jeep eating bridge problem.

- A 3x garage door and a nice new 5x garage door... and then a 4x drawbridge... are you trolling us?

- Why no able to flip doors or at least have a Left and Right version of each? Double doors become a nope, is there not a way to just mirror them instead of having a second set of geometry and texture?

- Diersvill houses are SO amazing, but then the sidewalk. Ugh, not only looks like crap and does not do the houses justice, but also acts funny if you try to build on top of it. I tried placing picket fence and it fell and broke itself. I solved by placing posts behind for it to anchor to, but that ended up distorting the sidewalk all irregularly, somehow making it look even worse. Had same problem when tried to place plates over sidewalk, which I was seriously about to do for the entirety of Diersvill. I miss the old sidewalk with a curb. Fancy houses like this would have a nice curb up in their hood. Where'd that go?

 

Bridges, doors, and sidewalks, oh my.

 

Yeah it's nit-picky, still gonna(continue to) play the F outta A17 regardless, and imagine most will resolve by A18, Beta, or Gold at least. Would however be nice to at least resolve bridges by stable release or peeps gonna be eatin up their bridges once they finally get their 4x4, will be an extreme moment of happy/sad. I'm glad I discovered it in creative, if I'da worked that hard in an actual game I'd be super annoyed. Maybe I will start a creative, fix all that manually, then save it and start my Nav games from then on with that save.

 

One last thing about bridges, and I honestly do not know if this was a bug or on purpose. One game I started in burnt biome, then when I crossed bridge near the Hotel it collapsed behind me as I ran across it, the entire thing. Thought maybe it was supposed to, for dramatic effect, and it was. But it left the river all janky and wonk-watered, with a plane of iron piles on it's bed, so maybe not.

 

Drawbridge ... Yes!!! I love the concept of drawbridge. I hate the actual drawbridge with a passion. WHY WHY WHY is it four blocks wide? WHY??? it doesn't fit ANYWHERE ... everything is off center.

 

Please, by all that is holy ... make the drawbridge three wide. or five wide. Or some other version of odd ... even does not work. Even makes people with OCD insane. Please fix this. It's not cosmetic ... it's evil.

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I think the new weapon modifier system provides a good way for modders to make a better weapon crafting system. I think you could make a gun frame as the base weapon like the baseball bat in my Salvaged Weapons Mod, then make barrels, stocks etc as item modifiers and use the item modifier assembly. Force the base weapon frame to a quality that allows enough spaces to complete the weapon.

The final effectiveness of the gun would be the additive of the frame plus all the attributes of the modifiers. I think it would be a better system this way.

 

That takes us back to the "we'll rely on modders to expand upon the idea" argument I had in another thread. Its awesome for us to have this system yes. It will spark some great ideas and mods, but how fair is it to the average player that that is the answer to all of their issues.

 

If the system needs to rely on modders to make it great or expand on it (and it may not it IS still experimental so i have no idea where it will all end up) then the system is fundamentally flawed.

 

The system you are describing could have still been implemented and had with quality remaining as is. Add the mod slots on TOP of the parts and on top of the stats to a level 349 bat lets say. Imagine the possible unique combos if they had done THAT.

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Honestly, I must admit that I don't like A17. Yes, graphics are better, new surrounding and POIs is cool, but almost anything else is worse for me.

HUD is less useful. I am getting less info and it's less obvious than in A16. Like with food, weapons ect.

Food and water system is worse. Too much exhausting and no safe zone, so you is always gimped. And there is no point in finding/crafting cool tier food cuz there is no wellness.

Wellness. I liked it. It was neat and fun and pushed me into farming and crafting.

Farming. It is much more causal and much less interesting now. No replanting, no fertilizing, and no E collection is pretty dumb for me.

Leveling. Itself it is not somewhat bad except too high level gating, but total loss of "level by usage" is bad for me. I liked to grind for those mining, construction, weapons perks. Now it's gone.

Weapons. Mods are good, even great, but old system with 600 level value and different weapon parts needed for craft were much more interesting for me than mods. They were pushing to scavenge, lvl weaponry crafting skills and make best gun possible. Now it's gone.

Zombie looting. I don't care about loot honestly, it was mostly useless anyway, but I hate that change with no gore piles and no ability to chop corpses. Bodies dissapearing in thin air are bad for me.

 

In whole... Well, development is good. Good that game wasn't abandoned after all those years in alpha. But THAT development saddens me greatly. In bigger portion of changes this doesn't even looks like stagnation for me. It looks like downgrade. Yeah, I know that many people like and enjoy this update. And it saddens me even more cuz lowers chances of reverse. And this means that I will play A17 that I enjoy significantly less than A16, or I will stick to A16 and will miss many other desired changes.

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If the system needs to rely on modders to make it great or expand on it (and it may not it IS still experimental so i have no idea where it will all end up) then the system is fundamentally flawed.

 

You do know "make it great" is subjective, right? Some's "great" is other's "crappy". Just look at any thread in General to see that. =)

 

For whatever reason, tfp decided the current system IS "great". Do I agree? Obviously not, but I'm not crazy enough to assume other people don't think it's great. So yeh, modding IS your only recourse, and luckily, a few devs took their time to make it so that you CAN mod.

 

...they didn't have to. I'm pretty sure moddability was a post-release dlc add-on. But they did it anyway. <shrug>

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Quick feedback:

 

(A17 b199 exp.) (windows dedi server) (default mode; default settings except days of 90 min.)

 

- the first week was a bit linear; we didnt have much choices, stuff to do

 

after starting with bows; we ended fightning with "compound bows" mostly.

 

- we didnt die during the first 7 days but we did 2x each during the first horde (day 7).

 

we were not prepared at all for some new attacks mode from them. it was quite fast. thanks the horde was "small"

 

- once we got level 20+iron tools (a bit past Day 8), we were able to progress quicker; have more fun all around

 

- by day 10 we had at least 750 feathers "in stock". Nests are now too easy to spot. Vultures are also giving tons of feathers.

 

besides, we had over 200 arrows each.

 

- reaching Day 13 night, food was never a problem. We had plenty of meat. Over 300 in stock.

 

- So far guns are last recourse stuff; we simply have no bullets, neither ways to made them.

 

During Days 12-13, we past level 30...up to level 32 (Day 13 evening)

 

- Day 13 late evening, we were surprised by a mini-horde with 1 vomiting cop and a "green radiation zombie" (always running) and a feral (white). we died, lost a backpack when they (zombies) died over our spikes.

 

we had no way to distance them "running" and they were simply eating our defenses like paper.

 

our defenses are to be redone for Day 14 night, although we still have lot of spikes all around

 

my guess is that we need to adapt even more. spend more time fortifying a base, than wandering around (exploring, hunting...).

 

What type of spikes are you using?

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It it not an oversight, since we intentionally removed it. I hated it and I don't think any of us are wanting to bring it back.

 

How about returning gun parts system with same 600 lvling, but making all guns to be spawned complete (and very rare). Then there will be no drowning in parts and somewhat lazy man will just look for better ones, but some people will be able to disassemple and recraft guns to better ones.

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How about returning gun parts system with same 600 lvling, but making all guns to be spawned complete (and very rare). Then there will be no drowning in parts and somewhat lazy man will just look for better ones, but some people will be able to disassemple and recraft guns to better ones.

 

Or, make guns scrapable into "gun parts" and then those can be used to repair guns? (Thanks Aureleus!)

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You do know "make it great" is subjective, right? Some's "great" is other's "crappy". Just look at any thread in General to see that. =)

 

For whatever reason, tfp decided the current system IS "great". Do I agree? Obviously not, but I'm not crazy enough to assume other people don't think it's great. So yeh, modding IS your only recourse, and luckily, a few devs took their time to make it so that you CAN mod.

 

...they didn't have to. I'm pretty sure moddability was a post-release dlc add-on. But they did it anyway. <shrug>

 

Then surely you understand that people in the random gen thread have every right to be upset because great is indeed subjective.

 

Ill admit defeat here Gup. It's impossible to debate you because you actually argue both sides at once. Are you running for Governor of Texas by any chance? I get the feeling you would have a natural gift at politics ;)

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Gun parts - personally, I don't miss them at all. I hated having crates full of gun parts and toilet guns (pistols) that could only be used as scrap or to maintain/increase the durability of another gun. While I did like the fact that you could increase part quality in the workbench, I loathed sitting there clicking two parts in, getting one part out, rinse and repeat for like ten minutes. By week 3-4, I was scrapping the majority of the parts I ran across.

 

I haven't gotten too much into the mod system yet, but I have played around a little bit with it in creative and so far I like it better. Modding a gun to different specs opens up more versatility in weapons, I think and makes finding/buying guns that have enough space for mods p. exciting.

 

I would maybe like to see some different types of ammo available like we have for the shotgun. (Base rounds, armor piercing, etc). Damage should depend on the bullet, not necessarily the quality of the gun IMO.

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It it not an oversight, since we intentionally removed it. I hated it and I don't think any of us are wanting to bring it back.

 

That, and you eat up brazillions of item-IDs / block-IDs with stuff that's more of a novelty. It never really affected the end-game because you could inevitably find high quality complete guns at the higher Scavenging levels in the earlier alpha's anyway.

 

I do hope someone figures out how to Mod a .50cal on the Jeep so the shotgun rider can shoot.

 

 

Most folks I talk to prefer the "find complete usable weapons" (which is more realistic anyway) and then allow CRAFTING of game-changing Mods / Enhancements to the existing weapon.

 

I don't see a difference between "OMG OMG I found a 594 barrel for my sniper" vs. "OMG OMG OMG I found a fire-rate-spring for my AK"

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Thank god. I hate hate hate hate those gun parts in A16. Hate them. Although, I do kinda miss the free iron scrap ... because that's what i did with them. Find ... scrap. Find ... cuss ... scrap.

Well, now you get mechanical parts. ;)

 

 

I see people complaining about too many guns being looted and I see people complaining that the game is too difficult and that they keep dying over and over.... Where does the complaining end?

There are others who are playing A17 on insane or always-run.

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That takes us back to the "we'll rely on modders to expand upon the idea" argument I had in another thread. Its awesome for us to have this system yes. It will spark some great ideas and mods, but how fair is it to the average player that that is the answer to all of their issues.

 

If the system needs to rely on modders to make it great or expand on it (and it may not it IS still experimental so i have no idea where it will all end up) then the system is fundamentally flawed.

 

The system you are describing could have still been implemented and had with quality remaining as is. Add the mod slots on TOP of the parts and on top of the stats to a level 349 bat lets say. Imagine the possible unique combos if they had done THAT.

 

 

You bring up an interesting point Jax.

 

Isn't it more pragmatic to look at the current state of this App as sort of pseudo-SDK, anyway ?

 

I mean, it's not exactly a cash grab for TFP. We had this age old exchange over the last year of RHs development. What is unique to play-style and what is core to the Dogma of the game itself ?

 

Lets face facts, they're not exactly raking in additional royalties or new players with A17, and any potential future Gold release seems more unlikely than ever given the time it took to do the refactoring for Unity2017. (of course, we all thought the same about R*st at one point).

 

 

It seems to me from an outsider's point of view that it is sort of a labor of love "get your troubled teen into a nice junior college" type endeavor, as opposed to a "take community feedback and integrate it into future creative decisions". LOL.

 

 

If the Modder community bands together, prioritizes player and server-Operator wishes and aggressively produces content, I think it's a win for everyone, regardless of what the principal developers do with the core game. It doesn't look like anything has been flat -locked out- from being enhanced, tweaked or modded. I could definitely do without rubber banding Zombies and almost unkillable Elite's like the Feral Solider, but hey, every game has it's bogeyman, right ?

 

If the RWG, colliders, and entity location / spawn stuff can be resolved quickly, I see a really strong future for the next year of 7Days.

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Or, make guns scrapable into "gun parts" and then those can be used to repair guns? (Thanks Aureleus!)

 

I am not exactly interested in repair. Or mods for that matter. Quality was always my endgame. When base established, farm provides, wellness is 200, and I am in full iron armor and with handy crossbow/shotgun and steel tools, making all that close to 600 while wandering around WAS my endgame. Now this game have close to none for me.

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You bring up an interesting point Jax.

 

Isn't it more pragmatic to look at the current state of this App as sort of pseudo-SDK, anyway ?

 

I mean, it's not exactly a cash grab for TFP. We had this age old exchange over the last year of RHs development. What is unique to play-style and what is core to the Dogma of the game itself ?

 

Lets face facts, they're not exactly raking in additional royalties or new players with A17, and any potential future Gold release seems more unlikely than ever given the time it took to do the refactoring for Unity2017. (of course, we all thought the same about R*st at one point).

 

 

It seems to me from an outsider's point of view that it is sort of a labor of love "get your troubled teen into a nice junior college" type endeavor, as opposed to a "take community feedback and integrate it into future creative decisions". LOL.

 

 

If the Modder community bands together, prioritizes player and server-Operator wishes and aggressively produces content, I think it's a win for everyone, regardless of what the principal developers do with the core game. It doesn't look like anything has been flat -locked out- from being enhanced, tweaked or modded. I could definitely do without rubber banding Zombies and almost unkillable Elite's like the Feral Solider, but hey, every game has it's bogeyman, right ?

 

If the RWG, colliders, and entity location / spawn stuff can be resolved quickly, I see a really strong future for the next year of 7Days.

 

I'd love to know your source. You think they're not selling new copies and that a Gold release is unlikely.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

Then surely you understand that people in the random gen thread have every right to be upset because great is indeed subjective.

 

Ill admit defeat here Gup. It's impossible to debate you because you actually argue both sides at once. Are you running for Governor of Texas by any chance? I get the feeling you would have a natural gift at politics ;)

 

It's not both sides, it's acceptance that the game is going to be what the game is going to be, AND I think it's going to be better a few weeks from now than it is now. It's literally not only still in development, but in experimental, which the pimps choose to use as a time to balance, polish and finish intended features.

 

...I think the problem here is, too many people are seeing a17 as "it". As if there will be no more improvements, or additions... and although yes, we are getting closer to "it", and "it" is definitely more clearly defined, we're not there yet.

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Anyone else have a stock pile of guns after a few days? Having guns don't feel as special anymore.. Seem so common! What do you guys think? Also anyone think zombie jumping seems.... kinda off?

 

You have to look at things differently. The guns are not important. It's the mods you need to seek out. A purple gun is the same as a grey one without any mods in it.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

So what's the point of looting now? You know once you find a gun safe you will have a stockpile of guns. I'll have to find a mod to fix this too. Maybe hold a poll to see what people want?

 

There is no challenge in guns anymore. Day one and I was drowning in guns. One of the reasons to loot was to find gun parts.

 

guns are pretty useless without the mods. Take a lot of shots to take a zombie down. Mods is the new 600 purple item to find!

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That takes us back to the "we'll rely on modders to expand upon the idea" argument I had in another thread. Its awesome for us to have this system yes. It will spark some great ideas and mods, but how fair is it to the average player that that is the answer to all of their issues.

 

If the system needs to rely on modders to make it great or expand on it (and it may not it IS still experimental so i have no idea where it will all end up) then the system is fundamentally flawed.

 

The system you are describing could have still been implemented and had with quality remaining as is. Add the mod slots on TOP of the parts and on top of the stats to a level 349 bat lets say. Imagine the possible unique combos if they had done THAT.

 

Its pretty easy to created different base bats, like a 100 quality, 300 quality equivalent , call them whatever, with each level having better base stats, then modify from there. The current vanilla system supports bringing back almost exactly what you say your missing, and its all done in XML. No code needed. I view vanilla as TFP's A17 "Mod", but they provide an xml way to put things back to their old A16 mod way of doing things.

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I'd love to know your source. You think they're not selling new copies and that a Gold release is unlikely.

 

Gup, I don't have a source because i am the source. It's just an opinion. </sarcasm> <grinz>

 

 

I made the statement because in the last 15 months of lurking there have been dozens of outrageous comments like "Pimps took the money and ran, and left the backers and buyers holding the bag waiting for another Alpha".

 

 

My only point is that the time for a cash grab has long since passed.

 

 

As to my comment about a Gold release, that's not meant to incite or infer "fact". It's hyperbole. Based on my own personal experience in a software dev world, this doesn't look like a product that's 8 sprints away from a final QA.

 

 

You have a studio that hates giving deadlines and dates due to the community showing up with pitchforks and axes when the date slips.

You have a massive refactoring effort for an engine revision that not only altered gameplay but also the MP mechanics, netcode, etc. (in many instances in a very negative way based on initial experimental feedback.

 

Then you have the typical issues that creep into any Dev project like errata, omissions, and crap that works in the QA but not at scale, that is going to most likely mean things that are broken, for some but not all, may be nerfed or removed.

 

 

So when I say "Gold seems more unlikely" I mean that in the context of "now that we have seen what A17 really "is and isn't" at least at this phase of the experimental, it's clear there's much to do to qualm the hysteria and polish the product.

 

 

To be candid, I thought 16.4 would be the eventual RC to make the leap to GOLD. There are enough substantial changes and problems today, that I personally think it's fair to anticipate several more Experimental sub-releases before you are even sniffing something that looks like a shippable product.

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