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Developer Discussions: Alpha 17


Developer Discussions: Alpha 17  

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  1. 1. Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

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Add a stone hoe and add/change the recipes so a cooking pot isn’t such an essential item. Having the cooking pot, grill, and iron hoe be fundamental items wasn’t a huge deal in earlier alphas when you could have a forge up and running early. Now that food is much more important there needs to be other balance changes to make this system workable for newer players. Even veterans have struggled when RNG has not been in their favor.

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agreed

I just edited the xml to fix the drawbridge. No idea why they changed it. (blocks.xml changed onlysimplerotations to false, and it's back to normal)

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And that is the REAL quandary here isn't it. They remove loot from zombies, therefore making loot harder to obtain and then essentially remove 500 variations of every type of weapon, tool and gun part. Swiftly giving you significantly less reasons to loot out in the world.

 

Knee jerk reaction to "I hate gun parts"? Maybe. I would hope the ramifications of removing quality and parts were thoroughly discussed. Yet no one stepped up and said "well once you get the gun now what"?

 

If I was guessing, and obviously I am, I'd assume they felt mods for guns would be the new parts searching mini game. As it stands now I don't think they mod system is complete or balanced yet. I also think crafting Mods is a bad idea as that reduces the reason to go looking for them. Maybe as they balance all this it will feel more like the mini game your missing will be back?

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Ok, I'm lvl 30 and I've put almost all points into making my character a strong melee guy but it is F***ing impossible to handle 4 ferals that spawn when you lower down in a spot that you can't back away from.

I like challange but not impossible. The melee combat is just rubbish. No block, no shove back. I could do like 2 swings before I died. If I would have changed to my shotgun, I would sill have died after the first shot.

 

POI difficulty is much harder then the loot is worth. It's been like this in every single POI I've been so far.

 

My previous death buff just ended few minutes ago. I guess it's back to 1 hour of downtime again.

Edited by toores (see edit history)
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Weapons/Mods. So far I haven't found a single gun mod. Only have a couple games so far and spent, I expect, far more time on material gathering than most folks have, so not much POI/looting done. Had a T2 Marksman from an airdrop and 50 rounds for night 14. It really helped of course. Other than the no-reload-when-zoomed-in which I've come to hate w a passion :)

 

Personally I'd prefer if there were small improvements in base, no-mods stats between tiers, besides just durability. Weapons\Tools\etc.

 

Agree w earlier poster about finding 'better' things like the Marksman in Army camps, Police stations, higher diff POIs. Though fundamentally adding in much more variety could help bring back the, 'man, I need a better rifle/handgun!' part.

 

Instead of the Marksman being the only rapid fire rifle, add in a semi-auto, 5 rd hunting rifle in a different caliber. So a noticable improvement over the bolt action hunting rifle in the same, less than a 7.62 caliber (.243 or 6mm?).

The next step could be an old style AR w the handle as excuse that no Scope but allow aim-dots. & non-threaded, CA-spec barrel so no can. Improvement would be 20+ rd capacity and cheaper/more-common-loot ammo. 5.56 progression would be a rarer flat-top allowing Scopes and threaded barrel allowing a suppressor.

 

For Pistols could add in a .22LR capable of adding a suppressor so an early game close-up silent POI clearer for the sneaky types. Add in a 1911 .45ACP w can for their later use (.45 is sub-sonic so no 'crack' and noticibly quieter than a suppressed 9mm, unless the 9 uses rare sub-sonic ammo). Add a rare-ish .357Mag Desert Eagle for higher capacity than more common wheel gun .44Mag. Rarist maybe a .500Mag for later game ferals.

 

Semi-auto shotguns, heck throw in a .410 gauge pump & a Judge. Cavalry sword, hand-and-a-half, katana. Go buck wild.

{and please, for all that's Holy add in a side-by-side sawed off w a R-click that fires both barrels; "How do you like me now copper?!"}

(oh, and a 'Duckbill' widens horizontal spread while a Choke tightens the pellet group to enable longer shots; descriptions are flipped)

 

Think you see where I'm going here, heh. More calibers & more platform options could add back in some of the, 'oh! shinyyy..' and could feel like you have more playstyle choices.

 

I know it was certainly one of my favorite bits about Jax's Ravenhearst mod :)

Edited by FileMachete (see edit history)
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I see people complaining about too many guns being looted and I see people complaining that the game is too difficult and that they keep dying over and over.... Where does the complaining end?

 

Honestly? I've come to think that a fair amount of what can easily come across as complaining _could_ be constructive criticism. Quite a few folks here do add in ideas that might improve what they'e not happy with. Certainly others are flat slamming TFPs, and I'm still impressed w how few times the Mods/Devs drop the hammer.

 

Must admit though I've wondered for a number of years about what's acceptable, 'online'. I personally think that if folks imagined that they were across the table from the person/s they're addressing, then framed their writing to match then there would likely be quite a bit less virtriol and more useful info.

 

But hey, what do I know? I was born before cell-phones/the internet so a dying breed, heh :)

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I have to agree on the gun issue. Really, it's the lack of a quality system and necessity to loot on top of that. The way things are currently- there's very little reason for me to even loot. I played a game for 49 game days and by day 35 I was already completely established without much need to loot beyond that. I got bored and started a new game. You can make practically everything you need and you're buried knee deep in guns. You can just run around and wrench all part-related things you might want on cars, signs, lights, etc scattered throughout -no real 'need' to ever step foot in a POI after you got your essentials. That part of the game is kinda gone, tbh.

 

The quality system gave you a reason to go and find better parts. Now, once you've found gun, clothing, tools, etc - they are all the same. . The mods do help give some incentive - but the base items are all the same.

 

Most of the junk you actually need to loot such as brass is just found in garbage bags or items scattered throughout that can be disassembled.

 

I had really hoped they were going more towards the direction where there were certain valuable items that could only be found in specific, dangerous locations. Give each location in the game a greater purpose. I would have liked them to have done things like different grades of weapons. You could find a common shotgun or common varmit rifle or small caliber pistol in many homes, sure. But then military grade weapons - (or higher quality versions of the same guns, parts, attachments or even mods) found in police stations, military bases, with more dangerous mobs within them. What happened to the rare "Legendary" items?

 

But a shotgun is just a shotgun in this game - none of them have any quality difference whatsoever. They are practically falling from the sky. On my first game I had an entire storage box just filled with guns, trader wouldn't buy anymore - and at that point - I just started scrapping them. Yep - scrapping weapons in a survival game...

 

I get it's experimental and I'm sure there's not a lot of balance in it - but even if you lower the loot% - so that you get them less frequently. It doesn't change the core problem in that there's seemingly less and less reason to loot in this game and besides durability no difference is to be found within each one you find. With the quality system, part of the drive was to improve every item you had. So you kept going out and trying to get better and better parts to get that last bit of performance out of the weapon. Again, mods do help, but it's not the same and as far as I can tell mods are found in just the same few loot container types most frequently. Not near enough variety.

 

I thought with the removal of zombies having loot that for sure we'd finally feel a need to have to loot more - but that's far from the case in A17. A player can quite easily survive this game rarely ever stepping foot inside a POI. Everything you need is within arms reach to become self-sustaining. At this stage, my only real motivation to even loot the POIS is just to sight see the new designs and traps..

 

The primary focus on this particular build of 7DTD reminds me of when I first started playing 7DTD before it became really good. When there was only a relatively tiny Navezgane and you'd find weapons ready to go in mail boxes on your first day and just start blasting zombies like in an arcade game or something. This version is closer to that early prototype in gameplay in this particualr way than any other Alpha since. There's a lot more focus on just shooting zombies over and over - which is fine - I dig doing that - but, it seems that the gameplay is too heavily focused towards doing that and not enough of the other things that put this game over the top awesome - building, crafting and survival. Those things are still fun in this game, but by the time you get there - you've already wasted so many zombies, have so much firepower and are so OP due to the perks that I don't feel the desire to do any grand builds.

 

I totally agree with everything you said. You put it better than I did. I cannot see why we cannot have the A16 part system AND mods? Modders have been doing that for quite a while. There is now no incentive to go out and loot. This along with the level-gating really kills any sense of progression. Ammo is also very plentiful as well.

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I totally agree with everything you said. You put it better than I did. I cannot see why we cannot have the A16 part system AND mods? Modders have been doing that for quite a while. There is now no incentive to go out and loot. This along with the level-gating really kills any sense of progression. Ammo is also very plentiful as well.

 

I think the new weapon modifier system provides a good way for modders to make a better weapon crafting system. I think you could make a gun frame as the base weapon like the baseball bat in my Salvaged Weapons Mod, then make barrels, stocks etc as item modifiers and use the item modifier assembly. Force the base weapon frame to a quality that allows enough spaces to complete the weapon.

The final effectiveness of the gun would be the additive of the frame plus all the attributes of the modifiers. I think it would be a better system this way.

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I have to agree on the gun issue. Really, it's the lack of a quality system and necessity to loot on top of that. The way things are currently- there's very little reason for me to even loot. I played a game for 49 game days and by day 35 I was already completely established without much need to loot beyond that. I got bored and started a new game. You can make practically everything you need and you're buried knee deep in guns.

 

Sounds like you need to play a game with minimal loot

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could a dev please explain how the generator fule burn is calculated

Im trying to cut the burn rate by half but on this line

"OutputPerFuel" value="11250"

if I double that it seems the burn rate is so slow a full tank will last forever

I dont know how that number is related to anything and I just cant figure out the correct setting to get that 50% reduction in consumption

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Meh. After almost 4000 hours on this game (since A13) I'm actually feeling pretty bored with it all of a sudden.

 

They've eliminated any desire to try.

 

If you know your building efforts will fail, then where is the motivation to try.

If you know you'll be killed by a horde of vultures that emerge from nowhere, then again, why try.

If we start accepting death as inevitable, then we've all lost something.

 

I've lost a reason to play.

 

I set Zombies to Always Walk in order to be able to defend my base, but in so doing I lost any challenge associated with building. I might as well set my storage boxes and forges in an open field now, coz Always Walk is zero challenge to defend a base.

 

A survival game needs to be survivable.

Difficult, Yes, most definitely, but survivable if care is taken.

 

But a game that defeats all your efforts has defeated its own purpose for being.

 

I can't get invested in a game if it rips apart any sense of progress.

 

dear Pico, you need to rethink your strategies. build different ways. make a path for z's, so they do not destroy your home, defend smart, put roof over your home to prevent vultures kill you. as i stated somewhere before, i only died by my own spikes.

edit: about guns, there is not too many. in early game you can not make repairkits and guns break fast. so you actually need spare gun. also you get ammo out of guns. i really like full guns more than looking for parts

Edited by wildaxeman1 (see edit history)
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That is simple. I would make guns drop at 10% the rate they do now and/or only in the better loot containers, but not my call.

 

I think gun founds are good ratio, you can be snowed with gun on day one, but how many gun safe you find ? and how many can you break in day one with stone axe. It take ages to break them,

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Ok so regarding the new system , i must say i love it the whole guns , no difference between tiers , that is great , but i do feel like some people are right in some regards , i would really like to see more mods and mod quality like the weapons from 1 to 6 or 1 to 3 something like that .

 

For example you have a tempered blade lvl 1 that gives +25 block damage and a lvl 3 that gives +75 block damage so there feels like you progress and you also interact with the mods more often and earlyer in the game .

 

Right now as cool as the ideea is and really i love it , but waiting for hours and hours to find 1 mod or a mod schematic that you can't really make until lvl 60 looking at a level 5 gun or tool with 4 mod slots and nothing to put in them is not good .

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Meh. After almost 4000 hours on this game (since A13) I'm actually feeling pretty bored with it all of a sudden.

 

They've eliminated any desire to try.

 

If you know your building efforts will fail, then where is the motivation to try.

If you know you'll be killed by a horde of vultures that emerge from nowhere, then again, why try.

If we start accepting death as inevitable, then we've all lost something.

 

I've lost a reason to play.

 

I set Zombies to Always Walk in order to be able to defend my base, but in so doing I lost any challenge associated with building. I might as well set my storage boxes and forges in an open field now, coz Always Walk is zero challenge to defend a base.

 

A survival game needs to be survivable.

Difficult, Yes, most definitely, but survivable if care is taken.

 

But a game that defeats all your efforts has defeated its own purpose for being.

 

I can't get invested in a game if it rips apart any sense of progress.

 

Well, I don't know why you lose interest, I die 10 times in 7 days game, mainly because I was stupid. On other hand my brother is on day 12 on his first run to game and he never dies. he is 100times smarter than me. So with your frustration I can assume there is chanllenge for you not to die and survive. And it is very much in game. This game become easier than before if you play your cards right.

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I set Zombies to Always Walk in order to be able to defend my base, but in so doing I lost any challenge associated with building. I might as well set my storage boxes and forges in an open field now, coz Always Walk is zero challenge to defend a base.

 

Did you already try turning difficulty to a lower setting?

Edited by meganoth (see edit history)
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I think the loot issue needs to be properly identified, and I don't think gun parts is it.

 

I also don't see why it's not possible to mod gun parts back in. You can either go the old-fashioned route and use recipes, or you can use the mod system itself and replace mods with gun parts.

 

It's not rocket science. It's just another way of thinking.

 

People are so focused on making a complaint, they're not seeing the potential.

 

And I still maintain that the majority of players are enjoying it which is why they're not here complaining.

 

Guns without bullets are pretty useless. And bullets are hard to find. And when you do find them, you're still facing radiated cops that game stage 30.

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Ok so regarding the new system , i must say i love it the whole guns , no difference between tiers , that is great , but i do feel like some people are right in some regards , i would really like to see more mods and mod quality like the weapons from 1 to 6 or 1 to 3 something like that .

...

 

TFP announced that the mods in the game were just the first they could finish and more will come.

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TFP announced that the mods in the game were just the first they could finish and more will come.

I understand that more mods will come , but mod quality should still be a thing , even if they add more mods but don't put some kind of system to make them accesible early for you to interact with the system that there will still be a problem

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