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Developer Discussions: Alpha 17


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Developer Discussions: Alpha 17  

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  1. 1. Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

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@Argeos Yeah That's about how m friend and I fared. I am on day 14, just finished a little square iron room with spikes on the wall and 1 layer on the base, iron wall around that, same spike setup and cobblestone (since... soo much iron for walls and no concrete yet) wall around that (all 1 block deep). Going to layer a lot of spikes and barbed wire, iron bars on top with a tunnel entrance. Hopefully itll hold.

 

I've noticed the AI is really smart, and traps, when done deep enough, do the trick. But don't house in a large POI. We did it with a forge and a workbench that was in there. Sorta set it up with spikes on the outside and did some touching up, but they found a gap and barreled through like boiling water on warm butter. Had a swarm sprinting at us at night :( lol. Wound up spending 3k wood spiking the whole upper floor. They got in one more time at night, but the spikes slowed em enough for us to shoot from the bottom floor. Its a 2 story house with an attic, the bottom floor is sorta like a basement with a garage. I love the new ways they make us re-think strats!

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Meh. After almost 4000 hours on this game (since A13) I'm actually feeling pretty bored with it all of a sudden.

 

They've eliminated any desire to try.

 

If you know your building efforts will fail, then where is the motivation to try.

If you know you'll be killed by a horde of vultures that emerge from nowhere, then again, why try.

If we start accepting death as inevitable, then we've all lost something.

 

I've lost a reason to play.

 

I set Zombies to Always Walk in order to be able to defend my base, but in so doing I lost any challenge associated with building. I might as well set my storage boxes and forges in an open field now, coz Always Walk is zero challenge to defend a base.

 

A survival game needs to be survivable.

Difficult, Yes, most definitely, but survivable if care is taken.

 

But a game that defeats all your efforts has defeated its own purpose for being.

 

I can't get invested in a game if it rips apart any sense of progress.

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First things first: very happy with the new style of 7 Days to Die - especially the difficulty. Can't wait to play with friends once stable comes out.

Secondly: perhaps this has already been mentioned, but when will a new build be up-and-running? Want to start a new game :) but perhaps the new build will be out soon. Hope you guys can help!

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Meh. After almost 4000 hours on this game (since A13) I'm actually feeling pretty bored with it all of a sudden.

 

They've eliminated any desire to try.

 

If you know your building efforts will fail, then where is the motivation to try.

If you know you'll be killed by a horde of vultures that emerge from nowhere, then again, why try.

If we start accepting death as inevitable, then we've all lost something.

 

I've lost a reason to play.

 

I set Zombies to Always Walk in order to be able to defend my base, but in so doing I lost any challenge associated with building. I might as well set my storage boxes and forges in an open field now, coz Always Walk is zero challenge to defend a base.

 

A survival game needs to be survivable.

Difficult, Yes, most definitely, but survivable if care is taken.

 

But a game that defeats all your efforts has defeated its own purpose for being.

 

I can't get invested in a game if it rips apart any sense of progress.

 

If it's too easy with Always Walk on then why don't you just turn it off?? You can't complain that it's boring if you are the one that is making it boring through your options. Let them come and break your base! Repair it! If there's no challenge of course it won't be fun.

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Meh. After almost 4000 hours on this game (since A13) I'm actually feeling pretty bored with it all of a sudden.

 

They've eliminated any desire to try.

 

If you know your building efforts will fail, then where is the motivation to try.

If you know you'll be killed by a horde of vultures that emerge from nowhere, then again, why try.

If we start accepting death as inevitable, then we've all lost something.

 

I've lost a reason to play.

 

I set Zombies to Always Walk in order to be able to defend my base, but in so doing I lost any challenge associated with building. I might as well set my storage boxes and forges in an open field now, coz Always Walk is zero challenge to defend a base.

 

A survival game needs to be survivable.

Difficult, Yes, most definitely, but survivable if care is taken.

 

But a game that defeats all your efforts has defeated its own purpose for being.

 

I can't get invested in a game if it rips apart any sense of progress.

 

Remember A16? Where you had a forge up-and-running by the end of the 1st day? And had iron tools on day 2? Steel tools probably around day 5-6? Where you could relatively quickly build bases which were completely impenetrable by zombies, probably by the mid of the 2nd week?

 

And you were talking about motivation to play..?

You were talking about 'surviving' a survival game? What's surviving without dying? Merely existing..

A player that defeats all the efforts of the game has defeated said game, and is done with said game.

 

A16 was way too easy on standard difficulty. A17 is spot on, on standard difficulty.

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So what's the point of looting now? You know once you find a gun safe you will have a stockpile of guns. I'll have to find a mod to fix this too. Maybe hold a poll to see what people want?

 

There is no challenge in guns anymore. Day one and I was drowning in guns. One of the reasons to loot was to find gun parts.

 

There is no real way to mod it back to what it was before unfortunately because they decided to actually remove the capability of both the gun part system as well as the action exp you used to get from using the tools and weapons.

 

This new system is entirely watered down. I can set guns to 0.05 percent and it still wont help. Because now you're removing a reward from players. And even if you DID that the second someone finds a level 3 or 5 gun the chase is over. Before you had to find 4 pieces, each at different quality and stats and as time wore on you assembled your weapon, made it better.

 

In my opinion when they removed that they removed a huge mini game in and of itself. In an Alpha that promotes difficulty, gating and slowing down progression it boggles my mind that the overall tools and weapons system got so stripped down they became practically the most boring aspect of the very same Alpha.

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Workbench is level nada if you use someone else's...

 

Yes you can use workbenches that you find ... then the problem is acid to craft wheels, that is very rare at the moment.

... and I still have not found a pair of wheels in any garage, maybe only unlucky rng.

 

We need more wheels!! :roll:

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But the player base mostly loves it, who do you make your game for ?

 

The owners obviously make the game for themselves, to fulfill their vision. A game can't be developed by polling the community about each thing. I'm also not sure where this "player base mostly loves it" comes from. The ones that dislike the change are obviously more vocal.

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FYI regarding more then one GPU, DX11 Crossfire works if you select Exclusive fullscreen AND Unity Selection Screen (like it did before but you had to use command line) however "AFR friendly" profiles now suffers from the good ol' seizures effect :( and "compatible AFR" ones from the stuttering effect so Crossfire atm is no longer viable for 7D2D.

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I have to agree on the gun issue. Really, it's the lack of a quality system and necessity to loot on top of that. The way things are currently- there's very little reason for me to even loot. I played a game for 49 game days and by day 35 I was already completely established without much need to loot beyond that. I got bored and started a new game. You can make practically everything you need and you're buried knee deep in guns. You can just run around and wrench all part-related things you might want on cars, signs, lights, etc scattered throughout -no real 'need' to ever step foot in a POI after you got your essentials. That part of the game is kinda gone, tbh.

 

The quality system gave you a reason to go and find better parts. Now, once you've found gun, clothing, tools, etc - they are all the same. . The mods do help give some incentive - but the base items are all the same.

 

Most of the junk you actually need to loot such as brass is just found in garbage bags or items scattered throughout that can be disassembled.

 

I had really hoped they were going more towards the direction where there were certain valuable items that could only be found in specific, dangerous locations. Give each location in the game a greater purpose. I would have liked them to have done things like different grades of weapons. You could find a common shotgun or common varmit rifle or small caliber pistol in many homes, sure. But then military grade weapons - (or higher quality versions of the same guns, parts, attachments or even mods) found in police stations, military bases, with more dangerous mobs within them. What happened to the rare "Legendary" items?

 

But a shotgun is just a shotgun in this game - none of them have any quality difference whatsoever. They are practically falling from the sky. On my first game I had an entire storage box just filled with guns, trader wouldn't buy anymore - and at that point - I just started scrapping them. Yep - scrapping weapons in a survival game...

 

I get it's experimental and I'm sure there's not a lot of balance in it - but even if you lower the loot% - so that you get them less frequently. It doesn't change the core problem in that there's seemingly less and less reason to loot in this game and besides durability no difference is to be found within each one you find. With the quality system, part of the drive was to improve every item you had. So you kept going out and trying to get better and better parts to get that last bit of performance out of the weapon. Again, mods do help, but it's not the same and as far as I can tell mods are found in just the same few loot container types most frequently. Not near enough variety.

 

I thought with the removal of zombies having loot that for sure we'd finally feel a need to have to loot more - but that's far from the case in A17. A player can quite easily survive this game rarely ever stepping foot inside a POI. Everything you need is within arms reach to become self-sustaining. At this stage, my only real motivation to even loot the POIS is just to sight see the new designs and traps..

 

The primary focus on this particular build of 7DTD reminds me of when I first started playing 7DTD before it became really good. When there was only a relatively tiny Navezgane and you'd find weapons ready to go in mail boxes on your first day and just start blasting zombies like in an arcade game or something. This version is closer to that early prototype in gameplay in this particualr way than any other Alpha since. There's a lot more focus on just shooting zombies over and over - which is fine - I dig doing that - but, it seems that the gameplay is too heavily focused towards doing that and not enough of the other things that put this game over the top awesome - building, crafting and survival. Those things are still fun in this game, but by the time you get there - you've already wasted so many zombies, have so much firepower and are so OP due to the perks that I don't feel the desire to do any grand builds.

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Sure, but money talks. Make a poll to see what people prefer. Even if u didnt like it, you could just ignore the parts and just pick up complete weapons. Iirc there was almost no penalty to repair weps lategame.

You are not the player base. I don’t care that gun parts are gone. I am also not the player base.

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The owners obviously make the game for themselves, to fulfill their vision. A game can't be developed by polling the community about each thing. I'm also not sure where this "player base mostly loves it" comes from. The ones that dislike the change are obviously more vocal.

 

^ This.

 

If one would act according to a subjective 'majority', one could end up with a substantial mess in which no-one is happy.

Look at the UK for example.

 

 

Edit; this doesn't mean that I'm not in favor of lowering the drop rate of guns. By all means, that's what's probably needed.

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The only concern with this new version, IMHO, is a level rise too fast.

And levelling up means meeting zombies, let's say, a little bit too aggressive early in the game...

Also the quests become too quickly harder.

 

So I multiplied the levelling time by two (you have to kill twice more zombies). However, because I am curious to test different skills, I now receive 4 points per level.

You should really test that.

 

In the progession.xml file, just change one of the first lines to get that:

<[color=#990000]level[/color] [color=#990000]skill_points_per_level[/color]="[color=black][b]4[/b][/color]" [color=#990000]experience_multiplier[/color]="[color=black][b]1.0149[/b][/color]" [color=#990000]exp_to_level[/color]="[color=black][b]20000[/b][/color]" [color=#990000]max_level[/color]="[color=black][b]300[/b][/color]">

Hope my English is understandable enough.:confusion:

 

Dude, it's BS, you suck (quoting myself allows me to be extremly nasty...)

 

Well, the 4 points were a stupid idea. TFP made a good choice and I should have trust them... However, slowing down the levelling up is pretty fine : ferals came later and this gave me some more time to be prepared. But I know it will be balanced so let's play now with the native settings.

 

 

Just one thing: players who complain that the game is too hard or too easy would be welcome to communicate their settings: Difficulty (X / 6), duration of a day, loot rate, zombie speed day and night, etc. .

Without this, we can hardly discuss their concerns...

 

And I take the opportunity to say that I love this alpha, that I am amazed by the work done and extremely grateful for the pleasure that is offered to me.

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That is simple. I would make guns drop at 10% the rate they do now and/or only in the better loot containers, but not my call.

 

Agree, I think that we need more mods than weapons.

 

And buff the crossbow: was my A16 favorite weapon but with A17 dps is way too low compared to compound or even normal wooden bow.

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I thought with the removal of zombies having loot that for sure we'd finally feel a need to have to loot more - but that's far from the case in A17. A player can quite easily survive this game rarely ever stepping foot inside a POI. Everything you need is within arms reach to become self-sustaining. At this stage, my only real motivation to even loot the POIS is just to sight see the new designs and traps..

 

And that is the REAL quandary here isn't it. They remove loot from zombies, therefore making loot harder to obtain and then essentially remove 500 variations of every type of weapon, tool and gun part. Swiftly giving you significantly less reasons to loot out in the world.

 

Knee jerk reaction to "I hate gun parts"? Maybe. I would hope the ramifications of removing quality and parts were thoroughly discussed. Yet no one stepped up and said "well once you get the gun now what"?

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Finally got around to test A17. Like the slower progression and the added difficulty. Doesn't seem harder to kill zombies like everyone is talking about, a few good power swings with the stick do the job. It's great as it is now IMO, walkers shouldn't be a real danger if you're careful enough, runners on the other hand should pose a great risk which they do without proper gear.

 

Have this feeling the perk system needs alot of balancing, just doesn't feel right at the moment, but I'm just at day 3 so could be wrong on that. Love the new quest system, think it could go a long way if done properly from this point on.

 

Can't really argue about guns since I only found a handgun and a shotgun. I do agree that finding weapon parts mostly was tedious after a while in A16 so I'm not really sad about the removal, but I also agree that the game is missing something now in regards of the weapons. Maybe they could add a small minigame for weapon reparation instead of the repair kit doing the job. Some weapons you find broken and you need to repair with a minigame to give you some sense of accomplishment or something like that.

 

Regarding the new AI, I noticed some snags here and there like zombies getting stuck on edges and breaking stuff rather than going around obstacles (edit: well, when I think about it, they're zombies, it's what they should do *doh*) but all in all it is a HUGE improvement and a real asset to the game. Can't wait to be surprised on horde night :).

 

TLDR: finally 7D2D is going in the right direction, a really fantastic zombie survival game, it only needs a bit of polish here and there and a tad of balancing of the perk system. I'm really loving what I've seen so far and I'm sure I didn't see 10% of what it has to offer.

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Hello everyone, I noticed that Sprayned Leg and Infection now last only 4 minutes, the latter being somewhat crippling as it takes away most your stamina and requires you to heal with antibiotics before you can even find some for the most part...but well, this aside, I've just been wondering if this is intended, or if this is a bug?

 

Thank you

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There is no real way to mod it back to what it was before unfortunately because they decided to actually remove the capability of both the gun part system as well as the action exp you used to get from using the tools and weapons.

 

This new system is entirely watered down. I can set guns to 0.05 percent and it still wont help. Because now you're removing a reward from players. And even if you DID that the second someone finds a level 3 or 5 gun the chase is over. Before you had to find 4 pieces, each at different quality and stats and as time wore on you assembled your weapon, made it better. <Shnipp>

 

I Strongly disagree, with the new system of Guns you may find a quality 4-6 gun if ya lucky BUT(!) you still have to find schamtics of mods and their components to actually make that one statwise better than their lower Doubles, as the only thing tied to rarity directly- is infact durability.

Until you craft them delicious mods that gun is just gonna be like any other. And looting, buying and crafting those is a new way of minigame that replaced parts.

Before you couldve had many gunparts but no actual Gun. Now you got a gun you can immediately use Early on, but make it even better in late Game- which is a better and more satisfying feel to me and many of my friends playin

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And that is the REAL quandary here isn't it. They remove loot from zombies, therefore making loot harder to obtain and then essentially remove 500 variations of every type of weapon, tool and gun part. Swiftly giving you significantly less reasons to loot out in the world.

 

Knee jerk reaction to "I hate gun parts"? Maybe. I would hope the ramifications of removing quality and parts were thoroughly discussed. Yet no one stepped up and said "well once you get the gun now what"?

 

Go out and loot some awesome Modifications for that awesome healthy weapon you just got yourself!

There are sooooo many variations to combine, mods out there that may alter your whole experience with your Weapon.

Now you can even have many weapons with quirks on them YOU CHOSE YOURSELF too!

NOW thats awesome, isnt it ? :OOOO

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I Strongly disagree, with the new system of Guns you may find a quality 4-6 gun if ya lucky BUT(!) you still have to find schamtics of mods and their components to actually make that one statwise better than their lower Doubles, as the only thing tied to rarity directly- is infact durability.

Until you craft them delicious mods that gun is just gonna be like any other. And looting, buying and crafting those is a new way of minigame that replaced parts.

Before you couldve had many gunparts but no actual Gun. Now you got a gun you can immediately use Early on, but make it even better in late Game- which is a better and more satisfying feel to me and many of my friends playin

 

That's great and all but we found all of that as well. We have at least 5 different gun mods to choose from, and 2 level 5 guns, as well as a box full of level 2 and 3's and this is by day 13.

 

If you're not finding mods and good quality guns you're not looking in the right places or just flat out haven't tried. It STILL offers way less variety than the older system, and coupled with perks the mods are ALMOST an afterthought to begin with.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

Go out and loot some awesome Modifications for that awesome healthy weapon you just got yourself!

There are sooooo many variations to combine, mods out there that may alter your whole experience with your Weapon.

Now you can even have many weapons with quirks on them YOU CHOSE YOURSELF too!

NOW thats awesome, isnt it ? :OOOO

 

I have zero interest in guns with "quirks". This isn't Diablo. And modders have been doing silencers and extended mags for several Alphas now WITH the gun parts system intact.

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There is no real way to mod it back to what it was before unfortunately because they decided to actually remove the capability of both the gun part system as well as the action exp you used to get from using the tools and weapons.

 

This new system is entirely watered down. I can set guns to 0.05 percent and it still wont help. Because now you're removing a reward from players. And even if you DID that the second someone finds a level 3 or 5 gun the chase is over. Before you had to find 4 pieces, each at different quality and stats and as time wore on you assembled your weapon, made it better.

 

In my opinion when they removed that they removed a huge mini game in and of itself. In an Alpha that promotes difficulty, gating and slowing down progression it boggles my mind that the overall tools and weapons system got so stripped down they became practically the most boring aspect of the very same Alpha.

 

I wish they would have kept quality levels in. That way it would be a end game chase to find a 600 level weapon with 5 mod slots.

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