Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

[Dauthiatull]

well seems Im never going to figure out this assets thing so could a dev just please cut the playback volume of the chainsaw and auger by 50% (as heard through headphones) so my ears dont bleed and doesnt drown out my voice while streaming

[SeekerOS]

Khzmusik, few things I've noticed myself :

 

Miner 69'er : Only two points in this yet, but when you right click with a tool ( power attack ) it helps to cut through a resource ( tree, rock, etc ) a bit quicker.

 

Motherlode : Should grant additional resources per tier and per attack. I didn't check before, so shame on me. Not sure if its working right as of current b199.

 

Perks / Tools : You have to click the icon next to the level, it'll show a requirement, ( say for iron tools), Intellect needs to be at a certain level, -and- the player does as well. Perhaps its not clear enough, but the base attributes themselves as mentioned by example above need to be leveled first to unlock the corresponding perks. As for tools themselves, the different tiers only seem to affect durability. Unlike in previous versions, damage is a base stat, and now mods need to be applied if you want, say less stamina used per swing.

 

Items are gated in that doubled way, its different and a bit annoying, but works once you get accustomed to it. These are only things I've noticed during game play, so I probably missed something.

 

( and wolffblood posted the same thing first ).

[Tetrameth]

Well this is terrific... I think...

 

 

It'd be great to know what the intellect requirement is (to gain the perk increase) AND what the level requirement is (to gain the intellect increase) though.

[Tetrameth]

I agree there. The descriptions in some of them are rather lacking; I, for one, still don't know what Charging Bull does. All it says is "Entity damage:xxx" and the description says I take reduced damage or something of the sort. Do I do entity damage when I run into zombies?

 

Exactly, I too saw this skill and at face value I SO want to sink some points into it, but there is just not enough information to potentially waste these precious points on it. All these wicked looking new perks, I feel like a kid at Christmas who is given a pile of wrapped presents but am told to not open them until NEXT Christmas.

[ahulme]

Playing since 2013 and this is your first post ? WOW...

 

Well, I finally downloaded the latest A17e, and have some first impressions.

 

There are a lot of things I really like:

• The graphics look much better (minus some occasional glitches which I'm sure will be worked out)
  
• New POIs are very good
  
• UI in general is better
  
• Generally speaking, the new perk system is a big improvement (but see below)
  
• I actually like the fact that the zombies don't drop loot, and are now purely a threat rather than a resource to be mined
  
• The fact that zombies get up quicker now leads to better combat (no more "shoot them until they go down then go in and club them" all the time)
  
• "Mining" gives fewer resources now, so no more 10x stacks of wood by night 7
  
• Haven't tried it yet, but the move to XPath for modding looks like it will be much easier to work with
  

 

But there are also some things I don't like (mainly stuff with perks):

• Mining motions (hitting grass/using stone axe) are way too slow, and it's not clear which perk improves that (or even if one does)
  
• Many perks are gated but don't say why (level requirement? Need to put skill point into general attribute?)
  
• Not clear what "Miner 69er" actually does now (the text refers to the "power attack" but you can't do that with mining tools? If not that, how is it different than "Mother Lode?")
  
• Seems to be no way to craft higher-quality tools (I put a point into Intellect but it did nothing - bug maybe?)
  

 

And, there is one thing that is really bad now, and it's making the game far less enjoyable.

 

That is the "difficulty" of the game. I know there were lots of criticisms about the game being "easy" but this goes too far in the other direction. Now it's not so much "challenging" as "frustrating."

 

An example: Around day 5, a wandering horde of wolves spawned in. One ran up to me and pretty much killed me without warning.

 

This started off a tedious round of deaths. The wolves didn't wander from my backpack, so if I tried to get my stuff before the backpack disappeared, I immediately died again. The only solution was to re-spawn, making sure not to collect anything for a new backpack, then run to where the backpack was. Get wolves to chase you, and try to get far enough away from the backpack before they kill you again.

 

Re-spawn, rinse, repeat. Not fun in the least.

 

It was definitely not helped by the fact that there is now a de-buff where repeatedly dying will lower your stats. By the time I got my backpack, I think the timer on that de-buff was up to two hours real time.

 

Here's the problem: This new difficulty only affects you in the early game, and 7D2D was never too bad with the early game. It was the late game that was uninteresting. This new difficulty level doesn't help that, in fact it actually hurts.

 

By the time you're not subject to insta-death, you're at the point where you have nothing to do but turn 7D2D into Minecraft. It seems like the Pimps' solution is just to grind longer to get to the late game - but that's not a good solution. Until you reach the late game and get bored, you'll just be going through constant die-spawn-die-again cycles which are no fun at all.

 

It would be far better if 7D2D focused on making the late game different, rather than ramping up the difficulty or increasing the grind. The inclusion of things like seasonal weather (where farms die off in the winter), or enemy NPCs that only show up after day 120, or things like that - those would make the late game more interesting.

 

That is all IMHO, of course. And, luckily, I think most of this can be done with mods (or "modlets"), so there's certainly hope for folks like me, even if TFP don't agree with my opinions.

 

Some great points here. The part about the slow speed of the fists and stone axe. Jesus, it's infuriating how delayed the swings are. That's will no doubt get fixed. You know, there is a part of me that wishes many of the changes didn't happen. I like the graphics, new AI system, and perk system (when working). I even like the new POIs, but once you have done one, you've done all those like it which for the first time is fun, but then the dungeons simply because predictable. I think variety in buildings was needed, to keep things fresh. This has been somewhat achieved. In short, A16.4 was loved by many, if the only thing that had of improved was an upgrade to the Unity engine, without the added systems, I would have been delighted!!

[Tetrameth]

Hi, Madmole. I'm great fun of the game. Can I play A17 without internet? My country not allow me to do that:(

 

P. S. Sorry for replying like this, I can't open the forum's pc version. Couldn't find how to write a massage to the this thread on phone version

 

In steam enable 'offline mode' for the game

[sinda]

There is an 8m XZ and 1m Y padding around volumes when zombies start spawning. And just making the volumes bigger for interior spaces makes a mess of overlapping volumes and then sleeper blocks would often be in multiple volumes, but are only supposed to be inside 1 volume.

 

does this new padding (which is awesome for triggers) also apply to UNloading the volume?

ie breaking down a door and backstepping a few blocks used to reset the sleepers if you were outside that volume box.

does the padding give you maneuverability without reset?

 

thanks

[khzmusik]

All non-repairing tools can power attack, no use even using normal any more. So with RMB, you power attack, Miner 69er increases that block damage. Mother Lode increases gains from harvesting trees, rocks, dirt.

 

I see. You can't power-attack with the stone axe though, and that's the only mining tool I have right now. I guess this perk is only valuable for mid-game then, when you can craft iron tools.

 

As for requirements, if you hover over the lock icon, it'll tell you what you need for that rank. So say Mother Lode, says requirement of strength 5, and hover over the lock on strength 5 and it says requirement of player lvl 40. I've yet to run into any that didn't tell me what I've needed. As for higher-quality items, you need more int. I think lvl 2,4,6,8,10 int is for each quality level.

 

I swear I tried that already and nothing happened. Maybe I'm mis-remembering though, or maybe it's a bug. I'll double-check as soon as I can (I'm going to play again tonight but I quit right before blood moon night, so it may be a while before I can open a menu ).

 

I think making all of this clearer should be a goal for the next build. It shouldn't be too difficult, maybe just add some explanatory text to the relevant journal entries.

 

Think it's worth filing a bug? (I'm guessing that's not the right place since it's not so much a "bug" as a "minor feature request.")

[wolffblood]

I see. You can't power-attack with the stone axe though, and that's the only mining tool I have right now. I guess this perk is only valuable for mid-game then, when you can craft iron tools.

 

 

 

I swear I tried that already and nothing happened. Maybe I'm mis-remembering though, or maybe it's a bug. I'll double-check as soon as I can (I'm going to play again tonight but I quit right before blood moon night, so it may be a while before I can open a menu ).

 

I think making all of this clearer should be a goal for the next build. It shouldn't be too difficult, maybe just add some explanatory text to the relevant journal entries.

 

Think it's worth filing a bug? (I'm guessing that's not the right place since it's not so much a "bug" as a "minor feature request.")

 

Yeah, stone axe won't work because it repairs with right click. The stone shovel has power attack. Though other mining tools will start with iron.

 

But I do think they will be changing some descriptions as updates happen.

[sinda]

it has 7000+ HP , destroying it on the first week of game-play will take a full day of holding left click. that`s a no go early. u can place as much as u want now, so u can just place a new one in your new base, every new one cancel the effect of the prev placed blocks. but they are still super hard to brk so seems exploitable for building stuff.

IMHO it should have been made to be a unique item that can only have 1 instance in the world, and that u can just pick up easily.

don't see the downside to that proposition, and fail to understand the design choice here, it might be MP related though, which i know very little about.

 

would love to get some advice of best practices avoiding these issues of using it from other SP players that has more experience with using it. thanks

 

the first one is a freebie, then you make more. i understand they're a lot cheaper than they used to be in a16.

 

you may have played on a server that enabled "e" pick ups on the block, but the base game never did it.

[PayKoHan]

will the game need a wipe after the a17 experimental? tnx

[SeekerOS]

will the game need a wipe after the a17 experimental? tnx

 

Experimental and Stable are different branches. Always best to just wipe so your game isn't bugged.

[beerfly]

will the game need a wipe after the a17 experimental? tnx

 

Full wipe. Yes mister.

[wolffblood]

will the game need a wipe after the a17 experimental? tnx

 

I'd expect it for each update more or less. Depends on what they are changing.

[Kosmic Kerman]

will the game need a wipe after the a17 experimental? tnx

 

Probably. Technically it already needs a wipe. Several testers already encountered errors moving from B197 to B199. This is the price of playing an experimental. If you don't want to start a new game when stable releases you might want to hold off playing experimental.

[wildaxeman1]

Hi, Madmole. I'm great fun of the game. Can I play A17 without internet? My country not allow me to do that:(

 

P. S. Sorry for replying like this, I can't open the forum's pc version. Couldn't find how to write a massage to the this thread on phone version

 

if you have already downloaded game, you can choose play offline

[wolffblood]

Probably. Technically it already needs a wipe. Several testers already encountered errors moving from B197 to B199. This is the price of playing an experimental. If you don't want to start a new game when stable releases you might want to hold off playing experimental.

 

Maybe I got lucky by not being that far in, I haven't had any issues. I also am on Navezgane, so there could be that too.

[chikorina]

In a dedicated server that I'm playing on, we had our day 14 bm horde. It turned out to be a pretty boring night because all the zombies were standing around barely moving at all. The zombies were punching air and the vultures were just flapping and floating in place. Is it like this in other dedi servers as well? Or are we doing something wrong? We had 13 players logged in, is that too many?

[khzmusik]

Full wipe. Yes mister.

 

One more thing that kinda sorta bugged me too, though it's not with the game itself. It seems to be recommended to delete previous saves. I have no problem doing this, but there are no instructions about how to do so (the saves aren't in the main game folder).

 

I actually did move the saves (I have the mod launcher for A16 and moved them to that directory - thanks Sphereii for that!) but I think most players wouldn't know how to do it.

[Jamie87]

yup agreed. a15 unplayable for my arthritic hands... a16 proper controller support opened a world of awesomeness... a17 back to uplayable with no run toogle on left thumbstick

agreed bring back toggle run plz I can deal with anything but not this

[Poutre]

Some great points here. The part about the slow speed of the fists and stone axe. Jesus, it's infuriating how delayed the swings are. That's will no doubt get fixed. You know, there is a part of me that wishes many of the changes didn't happen. I like the graphics, new AI system, and perk system (when working). I even like the new POIs, but once you have done one, you've done all those like it which for the first time is fun, but then the dungeons simply because predictable. I think variety in buildings was needed, to keep things fresh. This has been somewhat achieved. In short, A16.4 was loved by many, if the only thing that had of improved was an upgrade to the Unity engine, without the added systems, I would have been delighted!!

 

 

 

This if first iteration of it. it's going to be tuned fine until alpha 17 officially comes out. There are skills to improve attack speed tough. everything feels weaker but can be improved beyond what used to be. so you'll find late game easier i believe.

[Thecolours]

Magazines are kinda disappointing at the moment. The buffs are kinda boring for the most part and dont last long. And the idea that you would read a magazine but then forget everything you learned 30 mins later is counterintuitive to A16 when you would read an entire book and learn the recipe forever.

[wildaxeman1]

i went underground to do some mining today. sand seems to miss SI. it collapses too easy. it was weak but still ok in a16. now only 1 wide tunnel comes down together with ore blocks inside sand area.

[SandyBeaches]

I am not sure if this is the right place to put this, but as a modder I have some requests:

 

Currently, outside of buffs, progress and quests, which all allow name_key="" etc, there is no way to give modded items a proper name and description.

 

I suggest either adding either a <property name_key="" /> to all xml, looking for a Localization.txt in the mod folder and appending it to the main,

Or, in the theme of A17, adding the following effects:

<passive_effect name="Name" value="My Name in English" param1="My name in French"... />

<passive_effect name="Description" value="My Desc in English" param1="My Desc in French"... />

<passive_effect name="Tooltip" value="Hello!" param1="Bonjour!"... />

 

You could even make it tiered!

Just an idea.

[Kosmic Kerman]

@faatal and TFP, I'm really enjoying the physics of the bicycle. I upped the jump force from 4 to 4.5 and just spent 20 minutes driving around bunny hopping, doing wheelies and stoppies, and side hopping. Great fun!