Jump to content

Developer Discussions: Alpha 17


Roland

Developer Discussions: Alpha 17  

1 member has voted

  1. 1. Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

    • Newly Updated
      1
    • Check out the newest reveals by Madmole
      0
    • Over 100 new perk books with set collecting and bonuses
      0


Recommended Posts

There are those of us who would prefer they spend their time making this different from both survival games and zombie shooters. There are plenty of zombie shooters on the market if you don't want the survival aspects at all.

 

Think what is best for the game, not what is best for you. You have your personal play style just like everyone else. If you don't want to use the farming mechanic then fine but there are plenty of people who like the idea of defending their farm from the zombie hordes.

 

I vote for this as well. To add some, dare I say, reality to the game some danger to farming should be a thing. There should all be a threat to your supply to survive and keep your stamina up. Make seeds rare and make you fist the plants instead of spamming "E"... I'm all for it. Rabbits knawing, boars trampling and eating, zombie goop... Project Zombiod wasn't afraid to taint your food with nastiness... Why should 7DTD be any different?

Link to post
Share on other sites
This is harsh? Are you a millennial?

 

I merely explained why putting more effort to make this more farmer friendly than improvements to zombies as the main threat is the wrong approach (IMHO).

 

Should hunting and foraging not be a viable option to survive? Those are simplistic too, why should farming be special?

 

Honestly I haven't seen anything that makes me think most people care about a more complex farming system.

 

I'm not saying that it would be a bad thing but that time and resources are limited and they should focus on the main part of the game, zombies.

 

Let the modders take care of the food/farming details.

 

I agree with you that hunting and foraging should be the biggest part of survival in the early game, but farming should always be an option so attention should also be geared towards farming to keep it balanced. This game should not be more farmer, foreging, or hunter friendly because they are all difficult things in real life unless you have experience in one, the other, or both/several. This game is still in Alpha so balancing is part of the deal.

 

I don't see this as a win for the farmers in early game though. 5 heads of corn to make 1 seed now? An upgraded needed to produce more than 1 at harvest now? Seeds are now more scarce? Sucks to be a farmer after A16, lol. So they replaced replanting with regeneration... planting was glitchy in the first place due to the placement-box-thingy (I'm not a dev) glitching if you were close to other plants. The regeneration fixes that annoying clitch.

 

I agree with you in the fact it should all be a struggle. The struggle is why I have more hours in 7DTD and the retro-style graphics, Project Zombiod than any other game on steam. No other game can produce the kind of struggle it takes to survivie. Honestly Project Zombiod took more effort that 7DTD A16 so I'm glad to see more struggle added to A17 7DTD in the food/stamina catagory.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Yes but honestly I'd rather them put the effort into the zombies being the threat and not make this a farm simulator.

 

Games ARE simulations, I assume you mean you don't want a detailed simulation of farming.

 

*** I would like slider bars for each aspect of the game so everyone has a choice of how they want the game to play (like it's done in Factorio).

Link to post
Share on other sites

I really feel like a lot of this also could just wait till A17E is released then stable. That way all the systems are in place. Then have a basic idea of farming, but not go so in depth as nutrition. See where TFP goes with it all. Thing is, they have even said they want the game to be heavily moddable to make all kinds of play styles. When there's pretty much hundreds of play styles of this game alone, it's impossible that they will make a game where everyone is happy. There's plenty of other games where stuff is more indepth, but when I hear how much the game alone starts using so much resources, some of these indepth things would just make a lot of players frustrated since they would end up not being able to play it. There's some mods out there now, that I like the idea or have played it a little and enjoy it, I just can't play it because it really starts making things stutter (though I believe MM said they fixed that, so would help a lot). I would hate for TFP to do that to their normal game and force me to not be able to play because it just has too many resources that I can handle. So until it gets out and I can see how it runs, I'd rather it be simpler and easier on resources.

 

And I don't remember where I saw the post, but as for the gas and all, food brings up hunger, drinks bring up thirst, gas runs vehicles/tools. It's all one step to make something work, start adding in more steps later, get the general stuff done now. They still have a ways to go, but with the new systems in place, it shouldn't take that much longer with this great team they have.

 

As for working on zombies before survival, I feel like they need to. Later on, it's either zombies become zero threat because of how dumb they are currently, or if they destroy everything on a blood moon night for whatever reason (materials, boxes, chest, it all), you don't have much time to get things back up and going for such a high gamestage, so becomes a repeat death and need to start over. Once that gets balanced out, then focus on other things to start making it all tie into survival from multiple areas. As they said before, with how the system works now, you could alter the game stage based on events. So if it does get wiped out, say it drops game stage for so long so you can rebuild, or if you end up beating a blood moon night with zero damage to player, can increase more than usual.

Link to post
Share on other sites
so Joel got RTX powered rig? I hope he will not forget about us potato-hardware owners and we will be able to play a17 too :/

 

Uh, there are over a dozen people working on the game and many testers. Most of us don't have $500+ plus video cards, so we would be the first to complain if the game didn't run well for us.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Waiting what feels like a year now for alpha 17 to be released. I feel like they totally @#$%^& up this game now so much that they spend the last MONTHS to "fix ALL the bugs". But in the mean time they add some more @#$%^& (and have time for this) to the game to add more bugs to fix. EVERY single video posted including the last one is posted with NEW bugs in the *new content added* that "needs to be fixed". I mean really WTF.... Why not just fix the current "bugs" that is in the game for the past MONTHS now. Plenty talk NO ACTION. 2496 pages of it.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Waiting what feels like a year now for alpha 17 to be released.

 

Technically longer, the last alpha was released June 2017. Personally all I'd like to see them do is fix the melee, originally it was supposed to be like Skyrim. I've seen the power attack they've added and whilst I'll wait til I play it to decide I'm underwhelmed.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Technically longer, the last alpha was released June 2017. Personally all I'd like to see them do is fix the melee, originally it was supposed to be like Skyrim. I've seen the power attack they've added and whilst I'll wait til I play it to decide I'm underwhelmed.

 

Exactly. 17 months for a17..

And the power attack? Don't know how it will play out, but from the looks of it; meh.

Link to post
Share on other sites

They got to be really close at this point. Based on that new video I saw of Joel playing. It didn’t look very laggy and buggy. But who knows that didn’t show rwg or tons of other stuff. I mean experimental doesn’t need to be perfect lol need a17...... also on the bright side the 7dtd twitter account has been posting instead of Joel to build hype. So maybe soon then

Link to post
Share on other sites
Third time you have insinuated people are asking for a "farm simulator". Who has asked for that? What we don't want is that food becomes a non-concern by day 5. If food is going to be a complete non-issue that early in the game, just remove it entirely. It's just clutter at that point.

 

But if anything, MadMole said that seeds are going to be much harder to obtain. So it should take longer for food to become a non issue.

 

It is just that the process of farming is less tedious

Link to post
Share on other sites

I like that they made food a little bit more difficult...atm it´s just to easy... I mean i don´t want it to be the main reason for dying, but a little bit of a struggle is nice. Farming is the best way to get to enough food, so making farming a little bit more difficult is nice.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Again my idea.

Zs can only badly destroy material but they can easily find you.

Food spoil, even in the fridge.

If you have a field in a secure base, nothing grows without fertilizer. (Find / buy fertilizer)

Meat has higher energy value like vegetables so hunt.

You will find materials as before but you have to leave the base. Outside, the angry mob is waiting.

At Blood Night, the Zs could be stronger and more.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I was wondering about the farming part where you punch and a plant is automatically harvested/replanted. Does that mean you only have to use one seed for each plant and then you never have to use a seed again for it? I would think you would at least have to have the seeds in your inventory to replant even if you only had to punch a plant to harvest it and replant it. If you punched 100 plants and only had 99 seeds then last plant wouldn't be replanted and you would have to find/make a new seed for it.

Link to post
Share on other sites

My thoughts on farming are pretty much echoing many others. Punching/grabbing makes sense, but the regrowing not so much. A plant doesn’t just grow because why not, it needs tending to. Maybe add some kind of watering/feeding option?

Going with the food spoiling idea, maybe use the rotten food as a kind of fertiliser/compost?

 

For instance, in Subsistence, the plant bed has bars forg how much water and how much fertiliser is in the dirt. The fertiliser comes from the chicken house, so it’s infinite (ish).

Link to post
Share on other sites

The issue is we are all looking at each change in isolation and not looking at the overall picture, everything effects everything else in game, so we have to try to view changes as a whole and really you can only do that by playing the game.

 

IMO opinion based on all the previous snippets shown A17 is going to be the final big framework change to the game, once balanced, we will see see quicker smaller updates bug fixing and optimizing, with and influx additional content that the framework has already been laid down for.

 

No doubt we will also see some refining/ expansion of perks etc based on overall player feedback/ reviews.

 

Personally I'm still enjoying playing A16.4 (even with bugs and glitches) whilst excited for the touted changes in A17.

Link to post
Share on other sites
My thoughts on farming are pretty much echoing many others. Punching/grabbing makes sense, but the regrowing not so much. A plant doesn’t just grow because why not, it needs tending to. Maybe add some kind of watering/feeding option?

Going with the food spoiling idea, maybe use the rotten food as a kind of fertiliser/compost?

 

For instance, in Subsistence, the plant bed has bars forg how much water and how much fertiliser is in the dirt. The fertiliser comes from the chicken house, so it’s infinite (ish).

 

You've just given me an idea for balance that doesn't revolve around spawning entities and the weird issues that can cause.

 

Before a plant has reached maturity it stands a chance of getting a pest or disease problem. If you tend your crop you can easily cure the problem by hitting it, otherwise known as the "finger and thumb" method of pest control. If left unchecked the plant will die and a diseased plant increases the risk of nearby plants being infected.

 

A bool, a timer and a percentage value should be about all you need to do this.

Link to post
Share on other sites

So many discussions about farming being too over-powered due to regenerability. How aboutthe trivial (and much more realistic) solution? Increasing the number of days the crops take to fully mature. Don`t you think it`s weird, that crops take 2 or 3 days to fully grow?

Link to post
Share on other sites
So many discussions about farming being too over-powered due to regenerability. How aboutthe trivial (and much more realistic) solution? Increasing the number of days the crops take to fully mature. Don`t you think it`s weird, that crops take 2 or 3 days to fully grow?

 

Even the fastest growing weed (pun intended) takes about three months to go from seed to harvest. Given that a game day lasts roughly one hour you're looking at roughly eighty-four hours of playing before you can harvest your first crop.

 

That's a little too much realism even for me but you're right, three days does seem a little short by comparison.

Link to post
Share on other sites

From another thread:

 

Indeed A17 does rock. It just feels so deep now with meaningful perk choices, POIs that are so much more interesting, AI that will scare the crap out of you and shred tried and true base designs... New combat, vehicles, mods, new everything to be honest. There is too much to mention, but as a whole, this is the version I have personally been waiting for. To me this is the first version of 7 days that is feature complete for the most part. Having all systems in place for the first time is a big game changer. After this build its just more content, no brand new systems are needed.

 

Im a little bit worried about "having all systems in place for the first time" -- and no "no brand new systems are needed" part of this quote.

 

So,

 

1) Water doesn't need a new system?

2) We don't have bandits, is that a new system? are they gone for good?

3) Block selection interface that were talked about a long while back, is that a new system?

4) Smell system is gone for good?

 

Roland, talk me down... please.. :)

Link to post
Share on other sites
So many discussions about farming being too over-powered due to regenerability. How aboutthe trivial (and much more realistic) solution? Increasing the number of days the crops take to fully mature. Don`t you think it`s weird, that crops take 2 or 3 days to fully grow?

 

There is a period of time before farming starts to give you a meaningful return of food (i.e. one or two potatoes every 3 days is not worth writing home about). Then there is a period of time when it does. And then there is the time period when you swim in food. The problem is that the developers don't want the first period starting too late but want the middle period to be as long as possible. With geometric progression both goals are not achievable because the middle period is just about two growth cycles long.

 

For example if they double the time the crops grow (to 6 days) the middle period will be twice as long but so will be the first period where you bootstrap your farming. Even worse, find a big field and there is no middle period at all.

Link to post
Share on other sites
<snipped for space>

 

1) A water system is already in place although it needs fixing (re: completely ripped out and replaced)

2) Bandits are part of the enemies system and are simply an expansion of existing code (mostly, barring behavior trees).

3) Isn't the modified block selection code part of A16? It needs tweaking and expanding but it's already in place.

4) Not if we kick up a big enough stink :-)

 

MadMole is a great man but I should think by now everyone knows to take what he says with a few billion grains of salt.

Link to post
Share on other sites
From another thread:

 

Im a little bit worried about "having all systems in place for the first time" -- and no "no brand new systems are needed" part of this quote.

 

So,

 

1) Water doesn't need a new system?

2) We don't have bandits, is that a new system? are they gone for good?

3) Block selection interface that were talked about a long while back, is that a new system?

4) Smell system is gone for good?

 

Roland, talk me down... please.. :)

 

This is from the official Dev page, Third post:

"Dropped Features:

 

Behemoth

Ziplines

Plains & Maple Forest as full and distinct biomes

Blimp 7/24/18

bandits officially postponed to A18 7/24/18

smell detection by zombies 10/12/18"

Link to post
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...