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Developer Discussions: Alpha 17


Roland

Developer Discussions: Alpha 17  

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  1. 1. Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

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Thanks for the suggestion I’ll try it out. But I’d still prefer a actual spear but a shovel spear is better than nothing I guess.

 

You may find that it will be your best melee weapon due to it's reach and accuracy, especially starting out.

From the simple stone shovel that you can make, right off the bat, to the steel crafted one.

 

I like minded Modder may take care of the appearance for you.

In the mean time, just think of it with a really big spear point.

 

 

Just remember to keep a stone ax handy for getting through doors and stuff.

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We know already that apart from horde night zombies still have a very limited sensing range in A17. If you are deep enough, you are practically 100% safe.

 

Actually I would prefer if the most you could achieve was 99% safe. Even if you put a base on bedrock there should be at least a 1% chance that a zombie in a wandering horde senses you. Even in your safest base you should have a need for building more than one exit and every say 20 days you should be forced to use that second exit and stealth away or fight them (your choice).

 

And that choice, either stealth away, run away, lure them away or fight them, that is the playstyle you should be able to choose. The wandering horde can't force a fight, but it should be able to force you to notice it and take up two minutes of your time. Even if that only means running away long enough that they loose your scent.

 

 

Personally I don't like the idea of them sensing you because of a percent chance. There are conditions for them to notice you including sight and sound which makes sense to most people but giving them a 1% chance to sense you just for the hell of it would have the average player scratching their heads.

 

I like the idea of atmospheric hazards creating most of the dangers deep underground (with the exception of bloodmoon hordes). I figure if you're clever enough to make a lot of noise in a shallow base while a wandering horde travels overhead you deserve unwanted visitors.

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With that logic, skin and flesh beating through wood,stone and concrete is just fine?

 

True enough. I would prefer things to be a bit more realistic. Perhaps they can beat a wooden door down, not steel.

However it isn't realistic to be able to make a steel door easily either.

And Zombies aren't exactly realistic.

 

Game would have to be completely reworked to be "realistic" and that ain't happening. So many things would have to change.

I love the game as it is, not being realistic adds it's own type of fun.

 

Maybe some day someone will make a true Large open world zombie game that tries to stay as close to reality as possible (Other than the zombie part). A "28 days or World war z " type game. Just as an alternative when I'm in the mood for realistic survival.

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True enough. I would prefer things to be a bit more realistic. Perhaps they can beat a wooden door down, not steel.

However it isn't realistic to be able to make a steel door easily either.

And Zombies aren't exactly realistic.

 

Game would have to be completely reworked to be "realistic" and that ain't happening. So many things would have to change.

I love the game as it is, not being realistic adds it's own type of fun.

 

Maybe some day someone will make a true Large open world zombie game that tries to stay as close to reality as possible (Other than the zombie part). A "28 days or World war z " type game. Just as an alternative when I'm in the mood for realistic survival.

 

 

I don’t see that a game that is ‘that’ realistic would even be a game. If they can’t get through a steel door for instance, you’d just build a reinforced concrete wall house with steel doors, and you’re safe. There’s no danger to that. The only requirement would be to fight your way out to go and loot for food.

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I seem to recall faatal saying that once a zombie starts digging, it has some persistence. It won't start digging horizontally the moment the player moves - it will keep making vertical progress. I would speculate, then, that soon enough it will

  1. break through into your hollowed out chamber (where you were when it started digging);
  2. start navigating your underground subway system (now that it's into the negative space and at roughly your depth); and
  3. in the process create an air shaft that other zombies looking to path to you would notice and use (since air has a lower path weight than dirt or stone).

 

You can think that. I was starting to feel bad that I might have ruined someones plans to do just what I said. Nope, nothing to see here, my bad! :D

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Fataal, MM, o Ronald some questions

 

1 * It is very difficult to add scorpions in the biomes of deserts?

2 * Is it very difficult for the wasp to return and that we can see it in some biomes? without losing the vulture?

3 * Polar bears and white wolves in snow biome?

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Why a Zombi dog in seconds can destroy a steel door?

 

A dog should be able to dig at most in earth or sand.

 

I had a dog when I was a kid that chewed through the steps on our cement patio to get loose from her line that was attached to it.

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Fataal, MM, o Ronald some questions

 

1 * It is very difficult to add scorpions in the biomes of deserts?

2 * Is it very difficult for the wasp to return and that we can see it in some biomes? without losing the vulture?

3 * Polar bears and white wolves in snow biome?

 

Ronald, please

 

1 * Is it very difficult to add barbecue sauce from McRonald's to a Kentucky Fried Ronald combo?

2 * Is it very difficult to jump off a cliff with no rope and then snap out of it and get back?

3 * Global warning and global warming in snow biome?

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Fataal, MM, o Ronald some questions

 

1 * It is very difficult to add scorpions in the biomes of deserts?

2 * Is it very difficult for the wasp to return and that we can see it in some biomes? without losing the vulture?

3 * Polar bears and white wolves in snow biome?

 

 

 

Oh god I beg no more hornets, they were so goofy looking and seemed very out of place!

 

Scorpions sounds cool!

 

But before adding more animals I hope they can add bandits properly and some new zombies with special attacks. I hope ling above a house/building and underground isn't a cake walk with alpha 17!

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Alot of us did not want digging zombies, BUT, we have them, and they allow for more opportunities than non digging zombies do, so all we have to think about now is balance.

 

So although I had high hopes we would have different underground threats, this is what we have and it's better than nothing.

 

Meh, we will mod in more sensible underground threats if we can. I used a hardstone below the regular stone in medieval to discorage digging, and stompy was working on lava blocks and fire to balance bedrock, and now it sounds like using the new buff system, we can attach aoe buffs to deeper stone to cause asphyxiation, or other natural and more realistic issues to make underground threats more "real", and I'm certain we can disable underground digging in zombies.

 

We Will find a way, and the pimps have done a great job of giving us the ability.

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I don’t see that a game that is ‘that’ realistic would even be a game. If they can’t get through a steel door for instance, you’d just build a reinforced concrete wall house with steel doors, and you’re safe. There’s no danger to that. The only requirement would be to fight your way out to go and loot for food.

 

True but in a real world, could you really build a concrete house while fighting off zombies ? Would you be able to produce the concrete even ? You need to find food while you do all this.

More likely you would find a concrete building to re-enforce any way you can and live in it and you should be pretty safe inside - until you came out to look for food and resources.

This isn't something I suggest for this game but if a more realistic one ever came out.

If you watch any zombie movie people aren't building houses, they are just trying to stay alive and hiding in pre-made houses.

 

Like I say I love this game the way it is but would like to see someone make a zombie game with more realistic restrictions as an alternative someday.

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NukemDed, a 'Golf Game' is simply keeping the zombie kill count as low as possible. Self imposed ruleset so you might choose to say turrets are ok. Clearing houses/pois to get to the loot can involve luring zs outside then blocking them out, quick looting then escape out a precut 2nd floor exit. All while not whacking that one z that always seems determined to bash a new hole in the wall while standing right next to an open door :) Add in some goals that force you to test yourself and you have a suprisingly tough game.

---

Crater Creator, fair point. Don't think I've heard/read, "You won't be able to hide from the Z's anymore anywhere period." so I'll freely admit my trained tendency to view the half empty glass and look for the leak has influenced my interpretation of various vid comments and posts.

(but you gotta admit that one up-side of being a pessimist is that we're rarely disappointed :biggrin-new: )

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Meganoth, in a general way I'm not against 99% vs. 100% safe. Would fall into lazdeuce's camp that a 'rational' explanation would be helpful. Something like the current heat & screamer mechanic (which I enjoy) where you have an idea that your actions are leading to an encounter. Though as we've seen it can be difficult to find the balance for these 'slow burn' type things.

 

Anyway, good stuff all around :) and the civility is truely appreciated :encouragement:

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Meh, we will mod in more sensible underground threats if we can. I used a hardstone below the regular stone in medieval to discorage digging, and stompy was working on lava blocks and fire to balance bedrock, and now it sounds like using the new buff system, we can attach aoe buffs to deeper stone to cause asphyxiation, or other natural and more realistic issues to make underground threats more "real", and I'm certain we can disable underground digging in zombies.

 

We Will find a way, and the pimps have done a great job of giving us the ability.

 

HOPEFULLY SOMEONE FROM TFP WILL READ YOUR POST AND DO SOMETHING. OH NO! CAPS LOCK IS STUCK! ... fixed it. :)

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Because if zombies couldn't destroy steel doors, the game would be over in a matter of a couple hours.

 

Not necessarily, with the right balancing. If the player couldn't make them without huge expense in time and resources it would make them a rare commodity.

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Is it possible to mod out broken legs? Those things aggravate me more than anything lol.

 

turn on cheat mode,

 

debuff yourplayerid brokenLeg

debuff yourplayerid sprainedLeg

 

to find your player id use the list entities command

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

Avoiding zombies

 

All I have to do is dig a hole in the ground.

Jump into it and cover it up.

I could stay down there for as long as my supply's last and not worry about zombies.

 

 

Anybody who says differently is just fooling themselves IMAO. :)

 

until a17 when the zombies dig!

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HOPEFULLY SOMEONE FROM TFP WILL READ YOUR POST AND DO SOMETHING. OH NO! CAPS LOCK IS STUCK! ... fixed it. :)

 

Hopefully not. Don't let the shouting masses fool you. They may be loud but their numbers aren't as strong as you hope. I'll take BOTH diggers and lava, but if it is only diggers I'm fine with it. Balance will indeed be the key.

 

On my side of the street my community seems pretty excited for diggers, in spades of course. Not sure where this whole "no one ever wanted diggers" mentality is coming from. Every mechanic has its critics, but there are also a lot of people who miss how they used to be able to dig. Me thinks some people live inside a nice cozy bubble.

 

And so you know it is the arrogant attitude being displayed claiming to having beaten the digger system BEFORE anyone has seen it in action that makes the pro digger crowd excited to see it in action to begin with. Which is kind of hilarious. It has to be either denial or a speck of nervousness over this new mechanic that's got everyone so sure it will be easy peasy to beat.

 

Im sure the fresh salty tear jars are being prepared as we speak.

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I don’t see that a game that is ‘that’ realistic would even be a game. If they can’t get through a steel door for instance, you’d just build a reinforced concrete wall house with steel doors, and you’re safe. There’s no danger to that. The only requirement would be to fight your way out to go and loot for food.

 

Then this would be already very real.

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I always like a game where there is not 1 way to do things. In fact I have quit games that force you to do things a certain way.

 

When I came back to 7 Days after a long break I would turn zombies off for the first few days to get a foot hold. Then I thought about leaving them off and just building, as it is a fantastic building game.

 

When I did this I found something. I need the zombies on, from day 1. I need the threat, the rush of fighting, the demand placed on you to make a great base.

 

I also discovered that in my base design. I need to participate in the defense. It is really important for my enjoyment of the game.

 

That is not to say that the other ways are wrong or should not be allowed. To each their own and more power to you if you can make it work.

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There has already been a lot of discussion on how to make bunkering a fuller more realistic experience. The conclusion from most people is that it is too easy to live underground, and that it needs to be made more challenging. How exactly has been discussed a lot as well, and I really think after a17 the pimps will have lots of ideas to work with on how to address living underground without making it too tedious. Zombie behaviour is just one aspect of how this can be addressed, and how zombies behave can vary quite a bit depending on the genre of zombies you want to mimic, that being said everyone needs to take a bit of salt on how things are right now.

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Hopefully not. Don't let the shouting masses fool you. They may be loud but their numbers aren't as strong as you hope. I'll take BOTH diggers and lava, but if it is only diggers I'm fine with it. Balance will indeed be the key.

 

On my side of the street my community seems pretty excited for diggers, in spades of course. Not sure where this whole "no one ever wanted diggers" mentality is coming from. Every mechanic has its critics, but there are also a lot of people who miss how they used to be able to dig. Me thinks some people live inside a nice cozy bubble.

 

Zombie diggers will simply be not effective against a person who thinks a bit about their situation.

 

1) Start by building a tunnel away from your base.

2) On hoard night you just start walking down the tunnel in one direction.

3) After each hoard night, you examine the damage done to the surface (and see if any ores have been reveled).

4) You will know how much mining you can do and when to dig 30 more meters.

 

Its more than A16 anyway, you didn't even care what day it was and just kept the forges going 24/7. So... improvement.

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