Jump to content

Developer Discussions: Alpha 17


Roland

Developer Discussions: Alpha 17  

1 member has voted

  1. 1. Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

    • Newly Updated
      1
    • Check out the newest reveals by Madmole
      0
    • Over 100 new perk books with set collecting and bonuses
      0


Recommended Posts

The things you are claiming we NEED to put points in right at the start i have zero interest in. Headshot Bonus? Meh, I'm a melee/bow combo so I don't NEED headshots.

 

You are kind of contradicting yourself. If you are a melee/bow combo user, so you probably used to target heads all the time. That means you got the headshot bonus. Headshot does not apply to ranged weapons only, its about every weapon doing bonus damage to the head.

 

I also don't stuff my backpacks to the brim so I can definitely manage my bag without putting any points in encumbrance. I don't see ANY urgency at all to predestine yourself to one specific build.

 

I have yet to see any player that does not end up stuffing their backpack to the brim when they start. Loot, scrap, loot more, fills up even the old slots very fast. As a lot of resources tend to be very important at the start, unlike when you have a base or mini bike or ...

 

We shall see when A17 is ever released because now its nothing but a circle jerk with information that gets old 5 minutes ago. As Joel stats one or shows one thing and by the next video things already changed ( some maybe in responds to community over reacting ).

 

What i find personally, a lot of those changes feel immersion breaking. You can say a lot about spam crafting ( what had solutions ) but there was a logic behind it. You got better because you actually used it. This Perk system is totally not immersive. You can craft a 1000 items or dig all night, put points in your farming skills and plop, you just became a god farmer that can harvest 6 items / plant. Your character does not feel naturally but artificial.

 

I understand why TFPs want to make a totally scriptable system like this, as it makes thing way more easy on them but it feels like some of the magic of 7D2D goes away and becomes generic in the process.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just watched the Fortitude perks video and had a suggestion to make the Well Insulated perk a bit more interesting, particularly the later tiers since they don't have any other bonus beyond more insulation.

 

The idea for the 3+ tiers is that the player gains a minor buff when depending on the climate, such as increased stamina regen in the cold and very slow natural health regen in the heat.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just watched the Fortitude perks video and had a suggestion to make the Well Insulated perk a bit more interesting, particularly the later tiers since they don't have any other bonus beyond more insulation.

 

The idea for the 3+ tiers is that the player gains a minor buff when depending on the climate, such as increased stamina regen in the cold and very slow natural health regen in the heat.

 

That'd be cool. I agree that the perk seems a bit lackluster, especially considering that you'll be getting your insulation from clothing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think the implications of the perk is that whoever harvests it did the taking care of the field up to that point, but since this is a game and not a real-life chore, it has to be distilled into something that works gameplay-wise.

 

That's true, it has to go somewhere. Growing potatoes you don't just throw in the potatoes and come back some months later. It is a lot of work. So I can see why it fits better in Fortitude than any where else.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think the implications of the perk is that whoever harvests it did the taking care of the field up to that point, but since this is a game and not a real-life chore, it has to be distilled into something that works gameplay-wise.

 

And even in that scenario, Intelligence is a better tree for it. I have a garden in my backyard. Knowing how to plant them and how often to water is way more important than muscle. I just think something like Iron Stomach fits the Fortitude tree better and Gardening is more an Intelligence type skill.

 

Edit: I also think resistance to food poisoning was one of the few things missing from any of the skill trees. I guess it could be tied to the resistance to disease but it would be a nice skill set to have separate if it also came with getting more benefit from crappy food.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

And even in that scenario, Intelligence is a better tree for it. I have a garden in my backyard. Knowing how to plant them and how often to water is way more important than muscle. I just think something like Iron Stomach fits the Fortitude tree better and Gardening is more an Intelligence type skill.

 

With almost anything you need to know what your doing, combat, cooking, farming, looting... Where would it stop?

As you said, its not a simulator, its a game and games need to be as playable as possible.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

With almost anything you need to know what your doing, combat, cooking, farming, looting... Where would it stop?

As you said, its not a simulator, its a game and games need to be as playable as possible.

 

So you wouldn't like a skill to be able to make better/some use of some of the crap food you scavenge in the game?

 

Everything you mentioned, except farming, is in the tree that makes the most sense. Yes, you need intelligence to some extent for all of those but from you examples: Looting - perception makes perfect sense. Cooking - it is in the intelligence tree so... , combat - Hand to hand? Agility or Strength are for sure the biggest factors, Shooting - agility/perception. They did a good job of picking which tree make the most sense for everything EXCEPT farming. It is the odd man out. Sure brawn helps at certain points but it isn't even close to being as important as knowing where to plant, how deep to plant, how much water, what not to plant next to each other. My decent sized garden, that kept us overflowing in banana peppers, cucumbers, tomatoes and zucchini for the entire summer, took VERY little actual physical effort after the first couple hours. Even those first two hours weren't exactly physically taxing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I was watching a video and just noticed something.

 

In Strength there is Do-It-Yourself.

 

It reduces Crafting Time and at 3+ adds Active Crafting Spots.

 

Question 1: With Crafting Time being moved to Intelligence, what is taking its place here?

 

Question 2: What is meant by Active Crafting Slots? Is it the ability to queue items in that many slots? Or is it the ability to be crafting items in that many slots at the same time?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Maybe because body shots being as damaging as the old headshots is immersion breaking? Before you needed to get skilled at killing Zombie by targeting the heads. If all you need to do is hit the body, it makes the game feel dumbed down. You also assume that people will select "Easy". Most people run games on standard ( what i assume Joel was using in his videos ). And it was like seeing somebody hitting wet clay over and over again.

 

Because you are used to headshots being more damaging. A new user will not automatically assume that and when looking into the perks will see a perk that adds headshot. He might or might not use that then. But at least he will survive even before seeing that perk because for him it is easier as for people playing on harder settings.

 

Now since it is established that "easy" would be a good thing for newbies, lets assume the next step: TFP might just call that "Easy" setting "Normal" and voila, newbies will play "Normal" and not be zombie fodder. Every other player who has played for more than a few hours should select "Advanced" and play 7D2D in a difficulty that is somewhat like A16.4 on "Normal". Or select something even higher.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You really can't see the difference in aiming at a specific part that is harder to hit but gives an advantage when you succeed over a generic "Every hit does 200% damage" setting?

 

The hypothesis of Benjiro was that novice players will be pound to ground by zombies because (among other things) without headshot multiplier they simply will not make enough damage. I.e. with these changes in A17 the game would be intrinsically too difficult for them.

 

And I say that is easy to disprove, if they do damage to every part of the body as if it was a headshot (for one of us playing at higher difficulty) then it isn't too hard for them at all

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Because you are used to headshots being more damaging. A new user will not automatically assume that and when looking into the perks will see a perk that adds headshot. He might or might not use that then. But at least he will survive even before seeing that perk because for him it is easier as for people playing on harder settings.

 

Now since it is established that "easy" would be a good thing for newbies, lets assume the next step: TFP might just call that "Easy" setting "Normal" and voila, newbies will play "Normal" and not be zombie fodder. Every other player who has played for more than a few hours should select "Advanced" and play 7D2D in a difficulty that is somewhat like A16.4 on "Normal". Or select something even higher.

 

Anyone who's ever played a computer game would assume that headshots do extra damage. It's just the way it is...

 

You shouldn't assume that, because they are new to 7d2d, that they've never played any other games.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What are the arguments for having a level cap?

 

The design reason for the level cap/perk points cap is choice. The devs want you to have to choose which perks you take rather than merely choose what you take first. Agree or disagree, this is the devs’ vision for the game and MM has said as much. MM believes this will add more variety to playthroughs. Like all things 7dtd though, it will probably be easy to remove or increase the level cap if you are so motivated.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We're definitely getting rid of fertilizer... I didn't know poop fights were a thing.

 

I never got in poop fights, but I did find an amusing way to use turds. If I was in a server, I would hide turds in bird nests arou d busy areas/POIs then giggle about the thought of searching for eggs and feathers only to discover someone took a dump in a nest. I always searched the burnt forest for my fertilizer, so I had to find a way to repurpose turds, right? I will miss my practical jokes with turds :(

Link to comment
Share on other sites

idk how people say that they dont need headshots, i honestly cant understand in the early and mid game weapons feel too weak without headshots(which makes sense btw) but even in the late game i dont think u can one shot even with full pummel pete and 600 sledgehammer. I like the look of a17 i think it will make the game harder for all of us. cuz ive been playing for like 400 hours or so and now normal nomad settings are just too easy, but other settings make the zombies just bullet sponges. but these kind of changes (like more advanced inv management) will make the game more challenging. great job TFP.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

With harvesting being in Fortitude:

 

How many people worked all day in the field, harvesting? I did as a kid and you need fortitude!

 

Field dressing a deer without a real sharp knife would require some too.

 

Farming Simulator 2018 allows you to hire helpers that have higher endurance so that they can tend the fields longer than those with lower endurance... (I can only play Ravenhearst for 60 hours a week...)

 

Gnomanna. Just saw your posts. Who says it can have farming simulating in it? Who says you can't abstract it so that any ability could impact anything? Seems to me that certain people just can't step back far enough to connect the 'stars'.

 

Robin Williams could abstract ANYTHING. (And he could connect any two things as well...)

 

Btw - I am not saying you are wrong. Or that it you shouldn't suggest TFP change.

 

And you may have your farming examples for intellect, but it would seem there might be farmers who could easily link improved harvests to many different things. (And as I have quite a few for friends, I plan on asking...)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The design reason for the level cap/perk points cap is choice. The devs want you to have to choose which perks you take rather than merely choose what you take first. Agree or disagree, this is the devs’ vision for the game and MM has said as much. MM believes this will add more variety to playthroughs. Like all things 7dtd though, it will probably be easy to remove or increase the level cap if you are so motivated.

 

? From Madmole yesterday:

 

We're talking about no level cap, but it might take 6 months of game play to get to a high enough level to get all the perks. The idea is you can reasonably spec out your character by level 50. It needs a lot of testing yet to see how it all works out.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

? From Madmole yesterday:

 

I'm all for this, start by specializing but put in enough time and you can master everything. Much better than repeating "kill X zombie in 5 minutes" missions over and over again. Even though it would be slow as hell, it would help maintain interest in buffing out your character and be a grizzled veteran that can do it all. Particularly in single player, or any dips in server population looking for someone to help craft you some armor because you spent your points another way.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I disagree 100 percent. And so does everyone else. We ALL have a different idea of how long things should last. So there is no right answer here. They have to pick a happy medium. Anything more than its going to have to require modding because if you win and it takes 30 minutes to get a point Ill be mad as hell, of they win and it takes 5 hours you will be mad as hell. SOMEONE will be mad as hell either way right?

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

 

 

I will.

 

Fertilizer offered a nice way to increase yields on farming. Buying a perk that gives you 6 extra veggies? I won't begin to laugh at how ridiculous that is. Looks like farmers role in this game is being reduced a bit which is cool if thats what they want.

 

That's what Ravenhearst is for. Realism.

 

Next thing you will tell me that there's a perk to unlock headshots...in a zombie game.

 

 

 

 

Oh...

 

Aside from those minor gripes MM you have excited me about this Alpha like no other before. Speccing and building a char is going to be immense fun and I cant wait to experience it in all its glory. Thank you for the videos.

Yes I was asking myself, why do I replay Skyrim so much? Its old AF and sure mods bring some life into it, but at its core its starting over with a new character and playing it differently and seeing if I kick ass or get my ass kicked. To try all the combinations of characters and then role playing it added up to why I felt this was a very important aspect and we needed to put something similar in. Specialization is a LOT of fun I think.

 

And I don't want people to get too hyped, but even testing this with only a couple of attribute perks working fully and others partially, I'm having a total blast playing 17. OMFG the AI makes it amazing in itself. Like they will get to you. They can dig now, so I was mining and a guy ripped through my mining shack door and then tore my hatch out and dropped in on me. It was so frantic fighting a zombie in a 3 meter hole as I JUST started digging in there and it was dark I still had my starter torch but it was in the shack entrance. Crazy intense. Luckily it was just one zombie or I'd have been toast.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...