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Developer Discussions: Alpha 17


Developer Discussions: Alpha 17  

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  1. 1. Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

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And your neighbor did not also build buildings. AND those buildings were not built by one person in two weeks. So let's not pretend what you said is anywhere near a fair comparison.

 

Actually, he did add an extension to his garage so yeah, construction was also in his skill set.

 

I know true realism is boring but there's a huge difference between cross-training skill sets and just randomly learning a completely different skill than what you have been putting effort into.

 

Shooting any type of ranged weapon should add to your ability to shoot, not your abilities as a bricklayer.

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See, I like that unpredictability and those jump scares. Maybe MadMole could find a good compromise between the time zombies get back up... something in between the A16 time and what he displayed in his latest video. I want that penalty for being too complacent, but I don't want to have to wait around for 20 seconds ~ just to see if they get back up either.

 

There seems to be two camps on this issue. There are those who think it is horrible to not be able to tell the difference between a knocked down enemy and a truly dead enemy. I saw lots of comments about this in past videos where (because of the removal of the looting text on zombies and the addition of the ragdolling) it was very very difficult to tell if they were out for the count or not. Lots of people wanted some kind of indicator to know.

 

Then there are those who really enjoy the uncertainty and would love to never know for sure if that zombie will rise once more. I am firmly in this camp. I was so excited when ragdolling was added to knocked down zombies and then when the looting bodies went away with its dead giveaway of looting container text flashing on the screen. It was almost impossible to know. The only tell was the death scream and once you listened for it and heard it then you knew once again when they were dead.

 

I suggested to Madmole possibly mixing that sound up so that it played for knocked down enemies as well and that is when I learned the horrifying truth. Madmole is firmly in the other camp. He said he would not do that and that he was already planning to make sure there was a visual way to tell the difference between dead and not dead because he felt it was important to know.

 

Ah well....maybe a mod will be able to make this a reality. It was so close....

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Actually, he did add an extension to his garage so yeah, construction was also in his skill set.

 

I know true realism is boring but there's a huge difference between cross-training skill sets and just randomly learning a completely different skill than what you have been putting effort into.

 

Shooting any type of ranged weapon should add to your ability to shoot, not your abilities as a bricklayer.

 

And that is where they have chosen to draw the line between reality and gameplay.

 

I get what you are saying and in its pure form you are right, but they went a different direction.

 

I agree with them on this one. I don't agree with them on everyone, but I do on this one.

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Can you give us a Padlock button so us as players can LOCK the encumberance slots, so we can choose when to allow ourselves to get encumbered or not..?

 

I want to still be able to loot something and just click 'Grab all' without getting slowed when doing loot runs.

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You can also make a bullet do more damage and gain abilities, have you ever played an RPG before?

 

Yes, and one of the fundamental principles that I worked from is that to make a fantasy world believable there must be a fundamental set of logical rules to the universe. They may be wildly different than the ones in our universe but they must still be there. If memory serves this little nugget was first stated by Tolkien.

 

If you want to make a bullet do more hydrostatic damage take a drill and make it a hollow-point.

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How does making you choose between strength and perception remove choice? I dont think you ment choice, i think you ment it removes the ability to pick what you want.

 

You can choose between them but you can't choose both of them. It reduces the number of possible builds. So yes, I think my semantics were correct.

 

Its a unique system and i actually wouldnt mind it. Having a very unique character build wouldn't extactly be a bad thing. Maybe to people who want a master of all type character, but you could always mod it out.

 

Maybe if perception were called agility, even Armstrong might like it a little better, because it is realistic that you normally can't be exceptionally agile and exeptionally strong. :cocksure:

 

You can spend on any attribute you want. It's always like that in games that have attribute system. Only limiting factor is how much skill points you can get, so you need to choose what you need more.

If you want to have strength and perception on max lvl let it be.

 

A lot of skill systems use specialization, go along one path and the other path is closed. I don't remember if anyone did it with attributes too, but "it's always like that" is a little weak as a reason.

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Actually, he did add an extension to his garage so yeah, construction was also in his skill set.

 

I know true realism is boring but there's a huge difference between cross-training skill sets and just randomly learning a completely different skill than what you have been putting effort into.

 

Shooting any type of ranged weapon should add to your ability to shoot, not your abilities as a bricklayer.

 

Building in 7D2D is an abstraction of real building. All the iffy bits are smoothed away and you just put massive finished blocks everywhere.

 

Learning in 7D2D is an abstraction of real learning. In reality you do various activities, read books, make mistakes, experiment, sometimes you work for hours without really learning anything, and do something else for a minute and an insight about that hits you. That is all smoothed away and you just learn various stuff in "massive finished blocks"

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...

 

Madmole is firmly in the other camp. He said he would not do that and that he was already planning to make sure there was a visual way to tell the difference between dead and not dead because he felt it was important to know.

 

...

 

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

Best indication they are dead is if you have removed their head. normally have an axe on your belt don't you (all of you)? chop chop if you are that worried.

it will be a damned shame if it were so easy to tell. I like the idea that the bodies would lie there for ages and ages, maybe even some come back to life hours later if you hadn't made double sure they were dead.

 

also like the idea of a type of super zombie that feeds on downed zombies and gets stronger. maybe you need to dig a hole and bury dead zombies to keep them from getting stronger, or chop them up into tiny bits.

imagine one sneaking along behind you eating corpses and getting stronger and stronger...

or could be as simple as a normal one going feral (irradiated?)and starts running - despite settings - or super feral...

 

anyway - I am sooo looking forward to this

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Building in 7D2D is an abstraction of real building. All the iffy bits are smoothed away and you just put massive finished blocks everywhere.

 

Learning in 7D2D is an abstraction of real learning. In reality you do various activities, read books, make mistakes, experiment, sometimes you work for hours without really learning anything, and do something else for a minute and an insight about that hits you. That is all smoothed away and you just learn various stuff in "massive finished blocks"

 

I've already lost this battle, the system is already in place. :-)

 

Abstractions are good in gameplay but abstracting too far is detrimental to immersion.

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Yes, and one of the fundamental principles that I worked from is that to make a fantasy world believable there must be a fundamental set of logical rules to the universe. They may be wildly different than the ones in our universe but they must still be there. If memory serves this little nugget was first stated by Tolkien.

 

If you want to make a bullet do more hydrostatic damage take a drill and make it a hollow-point.

 

Then you must not like many rpg's (or movies).

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Then you must not like many rpg's (or movies).

 

I have a stack of RPG books going back to a complete set of 1st edition AD&D which would say otherwise. They're full of complicated rule systems that impose a logical order to the fantasy world in which they're based, logical enough to have mathematically based algorithms.

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There seems to be two camps on this issue. There are those who think it is horrible to not be able to tell the difference between a knocked down enemy and a truly dead enemy. I saw lots of comments about this in past videos where (because of the removal of the looting text on zombies and the addition of the ragdolling) it was very very difficult to tell if they were out for the count or not. Lots of people wanted some kind of indicator to know.

 

Then there are those who really enjoy the uncertainty and would love to never know for sure if that zombie will rise once more. I am firmly in this camp. I was so excited when ragdolling was added to knocked down zombies and then when the looting bodies went away with its dead giveaway of looting container text flashing on the screen. It was almost impossible to know. The only tell was the death scream and once you listened for it and heard it then you knew once again when they were dead.

 

I suggested to Madmole possibly mixing that sound up so that it played for knocked down enemies as well and that is when I learned the horrifying truth. Madmole is firmly in the other camp. He said he would not do that and that he was already planning to make sure there was a visual way to tell the difference between dead and not dead because he felt it was important to know.

 

Ah well....maybe a mod will be able to make this a reality. It was so close....

 

I have not seen the video, but for me it is just keep hacking at the body until it is carved up.. but maybe I can't do that in A17? THAT to me would be the 'definitive' "It's dead, Jim" moment! Just sayin' :cocksure:

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Same as A16: Harvesting, chopping, mining, building, trading, killing.

 

Only one of these I don't do much is the trading, everything else I spend a LOT of time doing (and enjoying) which sounds really strange coming from a 65 year old woman talking about killing.. my weapon of choice will always be a bow, simple, quiet, and I can make from next to nothing both the weapon and the ammo for it! LOL

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Only one of these I don't do much is the trading, everything else I spend a LOT of time doing (and enjoying) which sounds really strange coming from a 65 year old woman talking about killing.. my weapon of choice will always be a bow, simple, quiet, and I can make from next to nothing both the weapon and the ammo for it! LOL

 

Now we know what you all get together to talk about when you tell your family you are going to 'bingo' :D

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I have a stack of RPG books going back to a complete set of 1st edition AD&D which would say otherwise. They're full of complicated rule systems that impose a logical order to the fantasy world in which they're based, logical enough to have mathematically based algorithms.

 

 

I kill something with a sword, get some xp points and raise my lockpicking,speechcraft,sneaking,etc - this is in almost all those games and is what your complaint was against 7DTD - get xp points and upgrade something totally unrelated to the skill used.

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Only one of these I don't do much is the trading, everything else I spend a LOT of time doing (and enjoying) which sounds really strange coming from a 65 year old woman talking about killing.. my weapon of choice will always be a bow, simple, quiet, and I can make from next to nothing both the weapon and the ammo for it! LOL

 

Carol is that you?

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I kill something with a sword, get some xp points and raise my lockpicking,speechcraft,sneaking,etc - this is in almost all those games and is what your complaint was against 7DTD - get xp points and upgrade something totally unrelated to the skill used.

 

Just because a mechanic is popular that doesn't make it the right choice for every game engine.

 

I'll limit myself if there are no rules imposed on spending skill points. I love characterization and unless the character has done something to earn the raise in skill then they don't get points put into that area. I have little doubt I'll be doing the same for 7dtd.

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Just because a mechanic is popular that doesn't make it the right choice for every game engine.

 

I'll limit myself if there are no rules imposed on spending skill points. I love characterization and unless the character has done something to earn the raise in skill then they don't get points put into that area. I have little doubt I'll be doing the same for 7dtd.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm on the fence with how it'll be out of the box - I am very into where the modders will take it from there.

Edited by Erik Louden (see edit history)
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Don't get me wrong, I'm on the fence with how it'll be out of the box - I am very into where the modders will take it from there.

 

I am very interested to see where it is taken also. Especially by Valmod and Undead Legacy.

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