Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

[Gnomaana]

No loot respawn has been an option for years; I'd be super surprised if they removed it. Why would they? That could actually muddy the waters, as they won't know if fan reaction to loot in A17 is down to the change to zombie loot, or the change to the options.

 

Pretty sure they meant "viable option".

[emarat]

Something that struck me as odd... a perception perk increases fire rate.

 

I can see a perception perk adjusting that run and gun reticle size (That makes perfect sense and I love that improvement!) but shouldn't a fire rate perk be in the stamina perks, nor the perception perks?

 

Also an observation... In the past Joel has been the graphic texture guy... but now he is getting his hands dirty in the xml adjusting zombie behavior!

 

I think they maybe get up a tad too fast now, but thats far better than them laying there for 6 or 7 seconds.

 

If i remember correctly before Gazz was part of the team Madmole did the XML stuff.

[Gazz]

He said he just changed The get timing...maybe he meant he had someone (gazz?) change it for him?

Once you look at the text files though, thins are pretty easy to edit.

"Modding" (which is what this looks like a lot =) has gotten a lot deeper.

 

A16 and earlier, an "XML mod" meant that you changed a value on an item or a value on a block, maybe defined a "new" block using an existing shape and texture.

 

In A17, XML can mod the gameplay on a far broader scale. Here's a complete perk...

 

 

Progression.xml:

<perk name="perkDeadEye" parent="skillMarksmanship" name_key="perkDeadEyeName" desc_key="perkDeadEyeDesc" icon="ui_game_symbol_map_cursor">

<level_requirements level="1"><requirement name="ProgressionLevel" progression_name="attPerception" operation="GTE" value="1" desc_key="reqPerceptionLevel1"/></level_requirements>

<level_requirements level="2"><requirement name="ProgressionLevel" progression_name="attPerception" operation="GTE" value="3" desc_key="reqPerceptionLevel3"/></level_requirements>

<level_requirements level="3"><requirement name="ProgressionLevel" progression_name="attPerception" operation="GTE" value="5" desc_key="reqPerceptionLevel5"/></level_requirements>

<level_requirements level="4"><requirement name="ProgressionLevel" progression_name="attPerception" operation="GTE" value="7" desc_key="reqPerceptionLevel7"/></level_requirements>

<level_requirements level="5"><requirement name="ProgressionLevel" progression_name="attPerception" operation="GTE" value="10" desc_key="reqPerceptionLevel10"/></level_requirements>

 

<effect_group>

<triggered_effect trigger="onSelfAttackedOther" action="ModifyCVar" target="other" cvar="KillStreakTargetCounter" operation="add" value="1"/>

<triggered_effect trigger="onSelfAttackedOther" action="AddBuff" target="self" buff="buffPerkKillStreakCleanup"/>

</effect_group>

 

<effect_group>

<requirement name="HoldingItemHasTags" tags="perkDeadEye"/>

<passive_effect name="SpreadMultiplierAiming" operation="perc_subtract" value="0.15,0.5" level="1,5"/>

<passive_effect name="ReloadSpeedMultiplier" operation="perc_add" value="0.1,0.35" level="1,5"/>

<passive_effect name="RoundsPerMinute" operation="perc_add" value="0.1,0.35" level="1,5"/>

 

<!--

1st shot 2nd shot 3rd shot

T3 10 20 30

T4 20 30 40

T5 30 40 50

-->

<triggered_effect trigger="onSelfProgressionUpdate" action="ModifyCVar" cvar="KillStreakEffectBase" target="self" operation="set" value="0">

<requirement name="ProgressionLevel" progression_name="perkDeadEye" operation="Equals" value="3"/>

</triggered_effect>

<triggered_effect trigger="onSelfProgressionUpdate" action="ModifyCVar" cvar="KillStreakEffectBase" target="self" operation="set" value=".1">

<requirement name="ProgressionLevel" progression_name="perkDeadEye" operation="Equals" value="4"/>

</triggered_effect>

<triggered_effect trigger="onSelfProgressionUpdate" action="ModifyCVar" cvar="KillStreakEffectBase" target="self" operation="set" value=".2">

<requirement name="ProgressionLevel" progression_name="perkDeadEye" operation="Equals" value="5"/>

</triggered_effect>

 

<triggered_effect trigger="onSelfKilledOther" action="AddBuff" target="self" buff="buffPerkKillStreak">

<requirement name="ProgressionLevel" progression_name="perkDeadEye" operation="GTE" value="3"/>

<requirement name="CVarCompare" cvar="KillStreakTargetCounter" target="other" operation="Equals" value="1"/>

</triggered_effect>

 

<triggered_effect trigger="onSelfKilledOther" action="RemoveBuff" target="self" buff="buffPerkKillStreakCleanup">

<requirement name="CVarCompare" cvar="KillStreakTargetCounter" target="other" operation="Equals" value="1"/>

</triggered_effect>

 

<effect_description level="1" desc_key="perkDeadEyeRank1Desc"/>

<effect_description level="2" desc_key="perkDeadEyeRank2Desc"/>

<effect_description level="3" desc_key="perkDeadEyeRank3Desc"/>

<effect_description level="4" desc_key="perkDeadEyeRank4Desc"/>

<effect_description level="5" desc_key="perkDeadEyeRank5Desc"/>

<!-- <passive_effect name="StaminaChangeOT" operation="perc_subtract" value="0.25,0.5" level="3,5" tags="ranged"/> -->

</effect_group>

</perk>

 

 

buffs.xml:

<buff name="buffPerkKillStreak" name_key="buffPerkKillStreakName" description_key="buffPerkKillStreakDesc" tooltip_key="buffPerkKillStreakTooltip" icon="ui_game_symbol_map_cursor" icon_color="0,255,0" icon_blink="true">

<stack_type value="replace"/>

<duration value="15"/>

 

<effect_group>

<triggered_effect trigger="onSelfBuffRemove" action="ModifyCVar" cvar="KillStreakEffectCounter" target="self" operation="set" value="0"/>

 

<triggered_effect trigger="onSelfAttackedOther" action="RemoveBuff" target="self" buff="buffPerkKillStreak">

<requirement name="CVarCompare" target="other" cvar="KillStreakTargetCounter" operation="GT" value="1"/>

</triggered_effect>

 

<triggered_effect trigger="onSelfBuffStart" action="ModifyCVar" cvar="KillStreakEffectCounter" operation="add" value=".1">

<requirement name="CVarCompare" target="self" cvar="KillStreakEffectCounter" operation="LT" value=".3"/>

</triggered_effect>

<triggered_effect trigger="onSelfBuffStack" action="ModifyCVar" cvar="KillStreakEffectCounter" operation="add" value=".1">

<requirement name="CVarCompare" target="self" cvar="KillStreakEffectCounter" operation="LT" value=".3"/>

</triggered_effect>

 

<triggered_effect trigger="onSelfBuffStart" action="ModifyCVar" cvar="KillStreakEffect1" target="self" operation="set" value="@KillStreakEffectCounter"/>

<triggered_effect trigger="onSelfBuffStart" action="ModifyCVar" cvar="KillStreakEffect1" target="self" operation="add" value="@KillStreakEffectBase"/>

 

<triggered_effect trigger="onSelfBuffStack" action="ModifyCVar" cvar="KillStreakEffect1" target="self" operation="set" value="@KillStreakEffectCounter"/>

<triggered_effect trigger="onSelfBuffStack" action="ModifyCVar" cvar="KillStreakEffect1" target="self" operation="add" value="@KillStreakEffectBase"/>

 

<passive_effect name="EntityDamage" operation="perc_add" value="@KillStreakEffect1" tags="ranged"/>

</effect_group>

</buff>

 

<buff name="buffPerkKillStreakCleanup" hidden="true">

<stack_type value="replace"/>

<duration value=".2"/>

 

<effect_group>

<triggered_effect trigger="onSelfBuffFinish" action="RemoveBuff" target="self" buff="buffPerkKillStreak"/>

</effect_group>

</buff>

 

 

A perk that has a passive effect or 3? Joel does that all the time. Not to mention the design.

That and all the descriptions/localisation... that's a lot of work right there.

 

"Special effects" like this that juggle triggers and buffs and variables on multiple entities in realtime? Nah. Kinya and I are working down there and it's not unusual for me to ask him about how certain details were meant to work. Or if they do.

[Gareee]

More options is always better!

[snakewufrost1]

S P E C I A L system in 7days2die? Sign me in

[SnowDog1942]

So i know I must be missing something here since everyone is excited about these perks.

 

Most of them seem like, more damage, more block damage, reload faster, do other things faster. I mean this as an honest question, was 90 percent of this stuff possible with 16 and was most of it already in, just differently?

[snakewufrost1]

Yea... wait and see other perks,man. You got 3 more sets of perks. I think you might find something you like.

[OneRumo]

Is the smell system "Dropped" or just out of this version?

I feel that was a important part of the versions in which it was included.

[Perlin_Worm]

I thought zombies playing dead on the ground was a feature not a bug

[Sakurambo]

I want to always max out:

- 1 melee skill (10 Str + 5)

- 2 Ranged skills (10 Per + 10)

- Mining (+5)

- Looting (+5)

 

So thats 45 points spent with a minimum of 55 points remaining for trying out new play styles. Cant wait to try it out!

 

that's 45 points spent and 155 points remaining, you can level up to 200 in vanilla if nothing is changed

[meganoth]

 

meganoth, MM just proved you right, heh which is great news!

And I'm sort of okay with the second half, "Master of none."

Though honestly, even if I were playing co-op I'd still prefer an end-game where Master of all was attainable. I know, of course, mods

 

Might be interesting if after reaching max vanilla lvl that a mod tacked on more lvls for more points but not 1 for 1, maybe 2 lvls for 1 point then 3 lvls for 1 point. That kind of thing, so you're still 'advancing' towards Master of all.

 

Appreciate the wikipedia link, the other languages bit is quite interesting; had no idea so many cultures appear to view generalists in poor regard. I'm more in agreement with the longer version;

 

" "Jack of all trades, master of none, but oftentimes better than master of one" which refers to a person who is not the best at all skills, but is better than someone who is only a master of one."

 

Good stuff

 

Agree, in SP it will make a lot of sense to distribute points and get only very few perks to max. I expect to play the game a few times so I will have enough opportunities to try out all perks eventually.

 

What I expect is that many will mod the game to get more points and then some of them will complain that the game is too easy .

 

On the other hand removing the level cap or adding rare quests that give points might not make that much of a difference. It is a weak incentive to think about your point distribution because the limit really hits you only late game. Maybe vanilla should pair attributes where buying 2 levels of one attribute closes off the highest level of the other attribute

 

Example: If strength and perception were paired buying the first two levels of strength would close of lvl 10 of perception. Buying strength to 10 would close of the highest 5 points of perception. Now that would make you aware of your decisions much earlier in the game.

[The Gronk]

I thought zombies playing dead on the ground was a feature not a bug

 

Making the zombies rise immediately removes the uncertainty of whether or not they're truly dead. I've had many wonderfully scary moments not realizing that the zombie I just knocked down had risen again behind me.

[DaVegaNL]

So i know I must be missing something here since everyone is excited about these perks.

 

Most of them seem like, more damage, more block damage, reload faster, do other things faster. I mean this as an honest question, was 90 percent of this stuff possible with 16 and was most of it already in, just differently?

 

I feel so too. Some stuff was added, for sure. The extra stun chance and more damage upon killing spree... But most stuff seemed to be recycled from A16.

[Cazmyr]

@DEVs/ @Moderators

 

I was wondering, with all of the physics changes and such are there changes to the structural integrity calculations of buildings?

 

Before we had the mass and max load of blocks, is it still working that way? Or have the values changed?

 

Lastly we had a hard limit of one block face being able to support 15 (I think it was) other blocks, but no more regardless of their mass.

Is that still a thing?

[Blake_]

So i know I must be missing something here since everyone is excited about these perks.

 

Most of them seem like, more damage, more block damage, reload faster, do other things faster. I mean this as an honest question, was 90 percent of this stuff possible with 16 and was most of it already in, just differently?

 

Seems pretty basic yeah, but also more flexible and focused on gameplay styles. It can only improve from there.

I also noticed schematics with level of quality for making weapons. We won't be bored for sure. The orange quality cigar shown in creative mode in the last video ... well, I cannot foresee the usefulness there .

[Gnomaana]

@DEVs/ @Moderators

 

I was wondering, with all of the physics changes and such are there changes to the structural integrity calculations of buildings?

 

Before we had the mass and max load of blocks, is it still working that way? Or have the values changed?

 

Lastly we had a hard limit of one block face being able to support 15 (I think it was) other blocks, but no more regardless of their mass.

Is that still a thing?

 

I don't think the SI physics was changed(I could be wrong.) I think the physics changes mentioned were all vehicle physics.

 

Fataal will know.

[SnowDog1942]

I feel so too. Some stuff was added, for sure. The extra stun chance and more damage upon killing spree... But most stuff seemed to be recycled from A16.

 

Yea and im not saying its bad. Is perfectly fine. It just was most likely a ton of work for slightly different results. Waste of video time to, Id rather see cool new things rather than look at at skill tree with +10 damage +20 damage, +30 damage. God bless him tho for taking the time to make the videos.

[Gnomaana]

So i know I must be missing something here since everyone is excited about these perks.

 

Most of them seem like, more damage, more block damage, reload faster, do other things faster. I mean this as an honest question, was 90 percent of this stuff possible with 16 and was most of it already in, just differently?

 

To be fair he has shown mostly combat perks. What other kinds of things would combat perks give you? I mean, yeah, I can think of things but I would expect the perks he covered to be included in any combat skill system.

[Cazmyr]

I don't think the SI physics was changed(I could be wrong.) I think the physics changes mentioned were all vehicle physics.

 

Fataal will know.

 

I could totally be wrong here and often am, but I seem to remember them saying that with Unity 18 there was a whole new physics system. (Full stop)

[Exxodous]

I feel so too. Some stuff was added, for sure. The extra stun chance and more damage upon killing spree... But most stuff seemed to be recycled from A16.

 

I do not recall these in A16.

 

The two you mentioned of course

Ability to reload faster (with matching animations and sounds)

Ability to fire faster

Ability to knock down or damage surrounding zeds

Decreased runs speed while reloading and perks to make it less impactful. (I especially like this one)

Penalties for aiming or sighting longer with perks to lessen the impact. (it also seemed vision got blurry but that may have just been the video)

Heavier weapons held in your hand decreasing your run speed or using more stamina. And associated perks to improve. (Run and Gun?)

 

I'm sure some of these may have been possible with XML edits but probably not increased progressively. Aside from increased damage when buying some perks (which makes sense) I do not see a lot of recycled items. So I'm curious as to what seems so "meh" to you? Maybe I'm missing something but I for one am really interested to see how this plays out after balancing etc. And the MODs that will be made.....I'll just say Wow ahead of time.

[Gazz]

If you recall A16, all the buff system really did was affect stamina and HP.

 

Oh, and fixed movement penalties. (excluding jumping, swimming, crouching, and combinations thereof)

[Armstrrong]

Maybe vanilla should pair attributes where buying 2 levels of one attribute closes off the highest level of the other attribute

 

Example: If strength and perception were paired buying the first two levels of strength would close of lvl 10 of perception. Buying strength to 10 would close of the highest 5 points of perception. Now that would make you aware of your decisions much earlier in the game.

 

This is bad, and doesn't make sense.

[DarlingCows]

Is it possible to think about characters having specific points based on unique characteristic. When choosing the character/skin it could come with specific ability. Like a cop character has initial points in guns, or an athletic wrestle or runner has intitial points in encumberance and endurance respectively. I think it might be easier to decide on a tree class before you start the game.

[Sakurambo]

Agree, in SP it will make a lot of sense to distribute points and get only very few perks to max. I expect to play the game a few times so I will have enough opportunities to try out all perks eventually.

 

What I expect is that many will mod the game to get more points and then some of them will complain that the game is too easy .

i changed the points gained per level in a16, 7 instead of 5(or 6, i don't remember the exact number in vanilla)

in a 17 didn't think to do so

every atrtribute showed so far cost 60 points to max(10 for the attribute, 50 for the perks) for a total of 300 points nedeed to to max all if the other attribute are the same

with 200 points achievable you can manage to max out everything you want and left very little out

that could change if the cost for the perk change

[Cazmyr]

Something else I have been thinking about is that without wellness there will not be much of a difference between the food types other than how much they fill you up and heal your fatigue.

 

All that time figuring out the least filling food with the highest wellness boost gone by the wayside. All good if anything it will be easier. Make the cheapest (In ingredients) food you can.