Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

[meganoth]

I kind of wonder when gaming will get away from floats, doesn't seem like most need it since other than coordinates, I never see a decimal in any kind of stat, etc. If everything went to integers, wouldn't it even clean up damage, xp, coordinates, and the rest? I've thought it weird that there's decimals in damage when a flat number works just as well and wouldn't be a loss (not going to trigger Roland, lol) of information or even the possibility.

 

When Obsidian was designing the RPG system for Pillars of Eternity, the head designer went for floating point on any kind of stat because it was a lot easier to balance everything if you could use fractions. No need to decide if a weapon should give strength+1 or strength+2 if the balance would have been right at 1.5. And a % bonus on strength will show up in damage even if that percentage results to just 0.8.

 

Eventually the user still sees integer in PoE, but calculations are done without rounding everything. Has advantages and disadavantages

[deathless]

Then you obviously misinterpreted the data or failed to read the post thoroughly enough. What has been shown is the complexity and expandability of the new buff system along with a way set custom variables without having to hack core game files. It also demonstrates a system that is less prone to errors and conflicts. If they posted a ton of code it would be for the benefit of a handful of people who can actually read it correctly.

 

You know TFP quite likely haven't had a fully integrated and working build for months now? Can you imagine the butthurt posts if they isolated a single system and showed it running through a profiler? People would be aghast thinking that the entire game had been stripped down to that single feature and the extra strain on system resources required for the profiler was indicative of normal gameplay. Damned if they do, damned if they don't.

 

I can't say ive went though all 2200 pages So I apologize in advance but I havent seen updates other then the XML that faatal has released. For me those XML files could be recent or a year ago when they announce 17b. That doesnt really show how they work in the game how effective it is.

[beerfly]

New paintbrush screenshot fron Joel.

 

[The Gronk]

I can't say ive went though all 2200 pages So I apologize in advance but I havent seen updates other then the XML that faatal has released. For me those XML files could be recent or a year ago when they announce 17b. That doesnt really show how they work in the game how effective it is.

 

As Jedo pointed out, you're still skirting around uncomfortable questions and demonstrating quite a lack of knowledge about programming. You really can't see from the structure the possibilities and improvements that have been made? You can't extrapolate how long it would take for you to implement such a system yourself? You really can't get your head around the idea that during development complete and bug-free builds are a rarity?

[Roland]

I can't say ive went though all 2200 pages So I apologize in advance but I havent seen updates other then the XML that faatal has released. For me those XML files could be recent or a year ago when they announce 17b. That doesnt really show how they work in the game how effective it is.

 

It's really real.

[deathless]

As Jedo pointed out, you're still skirting around uncomfortable questions and demonstrating quite a lack of knowledge about programming. You really can't see from the structure the possibilities and improvements that have been made? You can't extrapolate how long it would take for you to implement such a system yourself? You really can't get your head around the idea that during development complete and bug-free builds are a rarity?

 

I know how long it takes to develop, Theres always going to be bugs but why hasnt there been any kinda updates showing the gameplay madmole went from showing off the game every 2 weeks to a month to now nothing.

[Jedo]

I know how long it takes to develop, Theres always going to be bugs but why hasnt there been any kinda updates showing the gameplay madmole went from showing off the game every 2 weeks to a month to now nothing.

 

We humble forum users can't answer why visual, gameplay updates have stopped, but I can tell you what the lack of such updates doesn't mean. (How's that for a convoluted sentence, Gronk?) The lack of updates does not mean that development has stalled. It does not mean that TFP has cut and run. It does not mean that we now will not get the A17 update. It does not mean that the update has suffered significant harm, setting back TFP's work by months. TFP still is working hard on the new update. Enjoy faatal's updates on his work. Enjoy Joel's pictures that he posts on Twitter. Relax, and be patient.

[deathless]

We humble forum users can't answer why visual, gameplay updates have stopped, but I can tell you what the lack of such updates doesn't mean. (How's that for a convoluted sentence, Gronk?) The lack of updates does not mean that development has stalled. It does not mean that TFP has cut and run. It does not mean that we now will not get the A17 update. It does not mean that the update has suffered significant harm, setting back TFP's work by months. TFP still is working hard on the new update. Enjoy faatal's updates on his work. Enjoy Joel's pictures that he posts on Twitter. Relax, and be patient.

 

Lack of updates could also mean stalled or stuck lack of people working on project.

Showing us pictures on twitter doesnt mean anything working on models for later builds this build

I have patients but when this game keeps getting stalled for releasing because they make a huge upgrade to unity 18.1 Instead of not waiting for alpha 18 or 19 or later instead upgrade in the middle of alpha 17.

[Robbing Zombie]

I have patients

 

Out of curiosity, what kind of doctor are you?

[HIREDGUN]

BOOM! And now we get a Devil? !

Does that mean it died, was tested and came back with a vengence??? EEK...

 

Or does it mean they are Done and changed it to mess with us all looking for the angel!!!!

 

Please,Please,Please be done!!

[deathless]

Out of curiosity, what kind of doctor are you?

 

Haha you so funny.

[Robbing Zombie]

Haha you so funny.

 

[meganoth]

So we hear the new update is going to blow our minds but where are all the sneak peaks of the new update we haven't seen anything in a month. We have seen more negative then positive we seen telltale shut down, we dont get updates about 7d2d so how do we know its actually coming, an not just word say that its coming?

 

Occams Razor.

 

If they ran with the money a long time ago, why would they invest work into producing videos of a 4x4 or arrows sticking to zombies ? If they ran just now, wouldn't it make more sense to release a nearly finished new version first and THEN vanish in the much longer time until A18?

 

They could be lying about the telltale shut down not impacting them, but then they (and telltale and iron galaxy) would have lied about telltale's involvement a long time ago. And they would have made a financial deal with telltale at a time (I think I read it was in 2016) when they already had financial success with 7d2d. Why on earth would they give away control of their own game to a publisher for some money if their bank account has enough for years of continued development? Especially since publishers services are no longer needed that much with steam doing distribution and even finance (for EA titles).

 

What's your theory? Post it here. If nobody can put holes in it, we can worry. If it is shot down (maybe because someone has information you don't have) then you can rest safely in the knowledge that A17 is coming out because anything else would be just highly improbable.

[Jedo]

Lack of updates could also mean stalled or stuck lack of people working on project.

Showing us pictures on twitter doesnt mean anything working on models for later builds this build

I have patients but when this game keeps getting stalled for releasing because they make a huge upgrade to unity 18.1 Instead of not waiting for alpha 18 or 19 or later instead upgrade in the middle of alpha 17.

 

Lack of any updates certainly could mean what you say. However, I've already pointed out that there still are updates, just not in the form that you want.

 

I don't quite understand what your second sentence about the pictures means, but those pictures aren't the only updates which we receive. If those were the only updates, you might have a point; but they aren't.

 

Your last point is just wrong. Period.

 

I think our world would be a better place if everybody had to take a course in logic.

[Gmad03]

Hopefully we get to see all the improvements they been working on in video form soon. Pictures are nice but I want to see it all in action and to see those performance gains

[deathless]

Lack of any updates certainly could mean what you say. However, I've already pointed out that there still are updates, just not in the form that you want.

 

I don't quite understand what your second sentence about the pictures means, but those pictures aren't the only updates which we receive. If those were the only updates, you might have a point; but they aren't.

 

Your last point is just wrong. Period.

 

I think our world would be a better place if everybody had to take a course in logic.

 

So your saying that if they didnt update to unity 18 that the game would have been stalled still?

[DaVegaNL]

Hopefully we get to see all the improvements they been working on in video form soon. Pictures are nice but I want to see it all in action and to see those performance gains

 

^ this.

It's nice to see Faatal post on here with text updates relatively often. But I'm really wondering if the game runs smoother. Especially since I've been hearing the impact of these optimizations are being cancelled by additional new features.

[Perlin_Worm]

No other game stresses my CPU like 7DTD. I am looking forward to optimizations. Perhaps even offload some processing to the GPU would be brilliant.

[Jedo]

So your saying that if they didnt update to unity 18 that the game would have been stalled still?

 

I'm repeating what was conveyed to us by the devs and Roland. I'm pretty sure faatal specifically has responded to that query a couple of times.

 

Just using logic, though, the unity update would not affect all systems the same and not all programmers would work on fixing shaders (one of the named problems). What are the people who were affected minimally or who didn't work on fixing the problems still doing? Working on things which needed to be done anyway. Again, faatal's AI work has been ongoing, and that has nothing to do with the unity update.

 

I'll take your lack of comment on the rest of my post as acceptance of my points.

[Jackelmyer]

We're not aiming for 7 Dark Souls To Die, though.

 

*Tears* Bless you child... Bless you...

 

If I want to pull my hair out... Well... I made children for that... And... I have a real job. Don't need Dark Souls level of hair pulling. Thanks! :-D

[eidobunny]

Hopefully we get to see all the improvements they been working on in video form soon. Pictures are nice but I want to see it all in action and to see those performance gains

 

I don't think a video is going to be able to show performance gains, it's all relative to your own system. I doubt they're gonna load up 16.4 and 17e and do a side-by-side analysis of performance in identical situations. Too much work for little to no payoff. I'd rather the devs just develop and then release it for us to play and judge for ourselves than post some video I'm not going to watch, but to each their own.

[Jackelmyer]

I DREAD persistent memory. It will be up to the OS to make sure to clean up memory that we can make 100% sure is cleared now by a reboot. Persistent memory will make a reboot useless unless the OS flushes memory correctly. But I'm sure Microsoft will handle that perfectly. Lol

 

Oh go play with your Linux box. ;-p lol

[Cazmyr]

Occams Razor.

 

Snip

 

Love Occam's Razor. Also Hitchens' Razor.

 

'What can be presented without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.'

 

Miss you Hitch. RIP

[deathless]

I'm repeating what was conveyed to us by the devs and Roland. I'm pretty sure faatal specifically has responded to that query a couple of times.

 

Just using logic, though, the unity update would not affect all systems the same and not all programmers would work on fixing shaders (one of the named problems). What are the people who were affected minimally or who didn't work on fixing the problems still doing? Working on things which needed to be done anyway. Again, faatal's AI work has been ongoing, and that has nothing to do with the unity update.

 

I'll take your lack of comment on the rest of my post as acceptance of my points.

 

Honestly I disagree because why give an estimated release date if your going to continue planning the development as you go. Once they updated to unity then everything went to silent. They can say unity had nothing to do with it, but the newest update of unity allowed them to develop more then they first planned. So in other words its because of unity that stalled the game to getting released when they said.

[Jedo]

Love Occam's Razor. Also Hitchens' Razor.

 

'What can be presented without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.'

 

Interestingly, neither of those mean that the proposal is untrue or not real. (It's a habit of mine to point this out particularly for Occam's Razor. Most people have a simplistic understanding of its significance, and this leads to further false assumptions.)

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

Honestly I disagree because why give an estimated release date if your going to continue planning the development as you go. Once they updated to unity then everything went to silent. They can say unity had nothing to do with it, but the newest update of unity allowed them to develop more then they first planned. So in other words its because of unity that stalled the game to getting released when they said.

 

Have fun talking to that mirror, then!

 

"You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. You can lead..."