Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

[Anabella]

The remarks of "to be honest" isn't a lie, it more of I feel I can speak freely and not have to be careful in how it is worded. Going shopping with a friend and she pulls out a dress and goes what do you think? You want to curl your lip and go you would look horrible in it. Instead you go, not bad, but I think you should look some more before you decide.

There is polite and a safe way, then there is flat out blunt, not holding anything back. So, no, doesn't mean they are liars, just at times want to be more polite in their wording.

 

Now, if he is a politician, that is a whole other can of worms.

 

For me it means not side stepping the matter and not sweeping it under the rug to save feelings. Therefore giving a full honest opinion. Funny how it means different stuff for different people.

[eidobunny]

If we are talking about active long-term players on MP servers and disregarding all other players then your stats are true? Lmao. If we are talking about active long-term players on my local machine and disregarding MP, SP and private servers then PvP doesn't even exist in this game. My stats are as valid as yours.

 

I'm talking weighted averages. I think it's unfair to imply that because "less than 1% of players play pvp" that pvp doesn't make up a significant portion of the playerbase. Consider 1,000 people play single player for 10 hours each, and 10 people play multiplayer for 1,000 hours each. How do you judge this situation from a developer point of view. Well, the 1,000 people made you more money, but the 10 people are the ones that are devoted to the game. Who do you consider as you continue to develop the game? Well the 10 people are only 1% of the playerbase, but they make up 50% of the playtime. Is it fair to act like they are such a minuscule percentage of the community that you can safely disregard them?

[MidnightRook]

Those themes are not mutually exclusive...

 

Ha! Thank you so much! I don't need anyone hijacking my campaign when we can be INCLUSIVE of each others ideas! You get a hug!

[Gnomaana]

You have left the core game play so incredibly broken for over three years, it would be impossible to ever operate a PVP server long term. I know because I helped run them and gave operators fixes. I am one of the coders for ServerTools who is fixing and making features you guys refuse to do after three years. When the populations went down, the PVP was still full but I have had friends quitting for years as they were tired of no PVP focus and the single player was broken. They were falling through the world for three years solid.

 

You added minibikes that could not hold items for over a year without falling out or the bike itself disappearing.

 

What kind of PVP would you expect when single player is just barely functional. If you build it they will come. You have adamantly fought PVP in this game and as such, you have little to no PVP base which is what keeps any game going for years. What single player game stays in the minds for years since the days of Fallout?

 

If you want to make a single player game, take the multiplayer off the steam page. You have stated you have not been developing the multiplayer for years^{[citation needed]}. You also state the game can only support 8 people. I have tried it and the game lags to the point where you can not play. None of this makes any sense after three years.

 

If a17 is your final go before beta, I hope its the greatest thing you have ever made with little to no bugs or the servers will not even reopen. There are 15 PVP servers that shutdown waiting for the game to develop. I am in touch with them all and they gave up waiting for this to be developed past a buggy minecraft mod.

 

Maybe you have never done your own numbers before but our PVP server had 1/6th of your entire user base play on it or enter at the very least. 15 of the top PVP servers that all gave up would make up over 30% of your users then.

 

This is not to nit pick, it is to shake you awake. Stop telling people how to f'ing enjoy it. They have found out they like multiplayer and they like PVP. Support the weirdos who gave you millions and are still waiting to not fall through the world.

If they wanted to use the game as a door stop and loved doing so, support it! What are you always fighting against Moley?

 

If you were talking about a Gold release of a game you might have some type of valid points. Welcome to Early Access. If it doesn't suit you, buy Gold Release games instead.

[Gareee]

No A18?

 

So wandering survivors and quests, and bandits were just a pipe dream?

 

Truly disappointed.

[eidobunny]

Where do you get I hate PvP? Every MMO I've ever played I only played on the PvP servers. I quit Ultima Online because of the PvP changes. I don't hate PvP. I detest the kind of idiotic logic you have been spewing to try to make some point that doesn't mean anything anyway. 99% of all players could be PvP enthusiasts. This is still mainly a PvE game. You want to know why? Because, that's the game the devs wanted to make.

 

My point is only that MM is acting like there are no PvPers by taking his total numbers (probably mostly people who bought the game and never really played it) to shrink the perceived amount of active PvPers. Nothing more. I'm not saying he's wrong by saying PvPers are 1% of the total owners, but it's misleading to think they make up only 1% of active, devoted players that have come back to the game for years and years. That's my point.

[MidnightRook]

OK, I'll bite... but panties just aren't really my thing, personally

 

(It's OK, though, Roland... I don't judge)

 

Blasphemy! No no, its ok, they can't be the thing for EVERYBODY....or CAN they? Am I going to have to win you over? I am GOING to try you know!

[Louie04k]

Will bandits be added a17.X? Or beta update?

[Gnomaana]

I'm talking weighted averages. I think it's unfair to imply that because "less than 1% of players play pvp" that pvp doesn't make up a significant portion of the playerbase. Consider 1,000 people play single player for 10 hours each, and 10 people play multiplayer for 1,000 hours each. How do you judge this situation from a developer point of view. Well, the 1,000 people made you more money, but the 10 people are the ones that are devoted to the game. Who do you consider as you continue to develop the game? Well the 10 people are only 1% of the playerbase, but they make up 50% of the playtime. Is it fair to act like they are such a minuscule percentage of the community that you can safely disregard them?

 

Weighted averages? What? Disregarding the group that the dev with access to ALL of the data Stream provides says is over 90% of the player base is not weighting. That is just changing the stats to suit your argument. I just flipped a coin 1,000,000 times. I disregarded all the times the coin landed with tails face up. OMG, It's a statistical miracle. My coin is the luckiest coin ever made. Or, maybe my way of generating stats just sucks.

[KingSlayerGM]

I'm talking weighted averages. I think it's unfair to imply that because "less than 1% of players play pvp" that pvp doesn't make up a significant portion of the playerbase. Consider 1,000 people play single player for 10 hours each, and 10 people play multiplayer for 1,000 hours each. How do you judge this situation from a developer point of view. Well, the 1,000 people made you more money, but the 10 people are the ones that are devoted to the game. Who do you consider as you continue to develop the game? Well the 10 people are only 1% of the playerbase, but they make up 50% of the playtime. Is it fair to act like they are such a minuscule percentage of the community that you can safely disregard them?

 

Each player paid 20 bucks regardless of how many hours he played

[Tarquinn]

it's a cop zombie! get him!

 

jk, got a S&W 38 special in my pocket too

 

A Smith is always a good choice!

[Guppycur]

Has to be a bug then because I can have a sleeper spawn and then move 10-15 blocks away and then come back and it will be gone or a different one in place of it.

 

Yep... See a Glowy cop? Leave, come back, play the lottery, see what you get.

[eidobunny]

Weighted averages? What? Disregarding the group that the dev with access to ALL of the data Stream provides says is over 90% of the player base is not weighting. That is just changing the stats to suit your argument. I just flipped a coin 1,000,000 times. I disregarded all the times the coin landed with tails face up. OMG, It's a statistical miracle. My coin is the luckiest coin ever made. Or, maybe my way of generating stats just sucks.

 

I mean where do you think he's getting his stats from. Some magic algorithm spits out a number that says "x number of people are actively participating in PvP servers?" You could play PvP and never engage another player, and you could play coop and kill your friend, so player kill achievement stats aren't something to go by. So what's left besides looking at the server list, adding up active players on servers marked "PvP" and dividing by current active players? What if someone just has 7 Days open and isn't contributing to PvE OR PvP? What if a server is PvP but doesn't put PvP in the server title? I think it's naive at best to assume MM has some magic algorithm that gives him an accurate sense of active PvP players. But I can look at the server list and sort by population and instantly get a good sense of how many active PvP servers there are compared to active PvE servers, and that number is much greater than 1%. That's it and that's all. I'm saying PvPers are more significant than MM let's on by trying to put bloom down by saying PvPers make up less than 1% of the community.

 

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Each player paid 20 bucks regardless of how many hours he played

 

Yep I said right in that paragraph the 1k people made TFP more straight cash.

[SnowDog1942]

What of noticeable value to a zombie apocalypse survivor do you have in your pockets right now? =P

 

A wallet (leather) with cash (paper) and

Credit cards (plastic). A multi purpose tool including knife and screw driver, and finally, a magnum condom.

[Gnomaana]

I mean where do you think he's getting his stats from. Some magic algorithm spits out a number that says "x number of people are actively participating in PvP servers?" You could play PvP and never engage another player, and you could play coop and kill your friend, so player kill achievement stats aren't something to go by. So what's left besides looking at the server list, adding up active players on servers marked "PvP" and dividing by current active players? What if someone just has 7 Days open and isn't contributing to PvE OR PvP? What if a server is PvP but doesn't put PvP in the server title? I think it's naive at best to assume MM has some magic algorithm that gives him an accurate sense of active PvP players. But I can look at the server list and sort by population and instantly get a good sense of how many active PvP servers there are compared to active PvE servers, and that number is much greater than 1%. That's it and that's all. I'm saying PvPers are more significant than MM let's on by trying to put bloom down by saying PvPers make up less than 1% of the community.

 

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Yep I said right in that paragraph the 1k people made TFP more straight cash.

 

I guarantee you they know how many are playing SP and local co-op compared to public servers. I've seen examples of the kind of data Steam gives publishers.

[eidobunny]

btw Gnomaana I never said you hated PvP, I said everyone here hates PvP. Every time PvP is mentioned a million people come out of the woodwork with pitchforks to shout down the PvPer and cite the developers saying it's designed as a coop game for up to 8 players.

 

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I guarantee you they know how many are playing SP and local co-op compared to public servers. I've seen examples of the kind of data Steam gives publishers.

 

For sure I'm not making any claims there. In fact I could probably figure out myself how many people are playing SP. I'm sure the majority of people play SP. That's not what I was getting at. I just don't want my community to be made to feel extremely small and insignificant because when I hop on and see almost half of the active servers with PvP tags it's like, I can plainly see we're not so small to be made to feel like some worthless speck in the community.

[MidnightRook]

A choice of underwear would be good. We should at least be able to wear them back to front and inside out to get more mileage. I just want to feel civilized again!

 

Panties for the people!!!

 

(after reading pages and pages and pages of... stuff... this is what stood out)

 

I have number 3 in the "Legion of Panties for Peace" campaign! Yes I officially changed the name. Thank you for your kindness!

[Anabella]

Looting every zombie after a horde night could add up.

 

The problem is, we don't see 7 day or wandering hordes as delivery guys. =)

 

What of noticeable value to a zombie apocalypse survivor do you have in your pockets right now? =P

 

In my pockets or on me = phone, fitbit, jewelry, headset, glasses, and a thing I put my hair in a bun that is a wire mesh with stick that goes through it. That is just setting here doing nothing. If I were out for a walk I have a running belt that holds quiet a few items. Back when I was working outside of the house I use to keep my keys, a small pocket knife or a leather man (multi tool type of thing) and money on me at all times....along with some stuff I listed above. People do carry stuff with them. Maybe it because i am in the south but it is very normal for a man to have keys, pocket knife, watch and wallet with him. Maybe not so much women but I worked with computers so the leather man was super handy.

[Andrivullar]

If you were talking about a Gold release of a game you might have some type of valid points. Welcome to Early Access. If it doesn't suit you, buy Gold Release games instead.

 

you mean like.... EA games? that are constantly plagued at release and for years? /eyeroll

[Tin]

A wallet (leather) with cash (paper) and

Credit cards (plastic). A multi purpose tool including knife and screw driver, and finally, a magnum condom.. never been used, with a permanent indent in the wallet to prove it!

 

Fixed it for ya..

[spiritking]

.....and finally, a magnum condom.

 

i mean, that right there would be great for holding water. i should carry one around with me at all times too. good thinking snowdog

[Erik Louden]

Looting every zombie after a horde night could add up.

 

The problem is, we don't see 7 day or wandering hordes as delivery guys. =)

 

What of noticeable value to a zombie apocalypse survivor do you have in your pockets right now? =P

 

I could answer that question but I'd probably get banned.

[Janna3921]

The zombies were once people, some of those people, especially the ones who survived the initial mass death, eg. Soldiers, will quite reasonably have equipment on them that other survivors would want, I could point out to you many MANY movies and episodes of the walking dead where survivors enter areas to kill zombies such as soldiers and police in order to get their guns and ammo from them so maybe for you its dumb and maybe that's why you'd be just another corpse with nothing on it.

 

 

Maybe you didn't mean it to do so, but that came across as harsh. Roland stated that loot tables can be altered, loot boxes added to give bones and flesh. I know that my first reactions were from my emotions, not logic, but in stopping to think, I can see how it can be fixed. Cooler can have more rotten flesh, fridges have bones and flesh that was planned to be used for stock.

Yes, solders, police officers, utility and construction workers should have tools on them. The nurse should have meds, bandages and such on her, generally she doesn't or not very much. I can see Edgar having a sandwich, or maybe have him carry several cans of beer, he had a beer belly already.

I am hoping that TFPs are thinking of this, in ways to give us the needed items to make up for little loot, no bones or flesh from zombie kills.

[Exxodous]

If we're talking about active long-term players in multiplayer servers and disregarding single player or private servers, there's a significant active PvP community as a portion of all active players.

 

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I'm talking about active multiplayer players, I'm not even considering single players or people who bought the game and never played it. Considering the set of active multiplayer servers, a good 20-30% are PvP-centered.

 

I understand what you mean about active multiplayer servers and your numbers may very well be accurate (I haven't looked) but you can not however discount all the single player numbers when considering MM's assertion that PVP is 1% of the "total" player base. I'm assuming he would have more information on that than we would. So considering, if he is remotely close to accurate then when decisions are made that may affect PVP or PVE adversely one can reasonably see why the pro PVE option would be favored. While that may suck for those who enjoy PVP it is understandable from a business standpoint to cater to the majority of the fan base.

[Anabella]

You thought that backing a Kickstarter campaign meant that you get to make decisions on the project, whether directly or indirectly?

 

I have listened to you for a couple days now. Bullying and putting peoples ideas down. Acting like you speak for TFP. They are very capable of speaking for themselves and maybe....just maybe you could give it a break. You want to say what you like in a game that is fine. We can respect what you like and how you want to play but the constantly putting down others is getting old.