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Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

Developer Discussions: Alpha 17  

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  1. 1. Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

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*Flips a lever on the glasses*

 

There might be or there might not be. Madmole didn't promise anything.

 

Well after A17, all I can think of feature wise are the bandits and the water/boat thing if that hasn't been scrapped. Otherwise for beta, just bug fixes, balancing, and more zombie types would be nice(but idk if they are adding new ones in A17)

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Here is one issue with that system.

Why can I not just attract the zombies and lead them out of the house?

I know the explanation was to prevent Pied Piper clearing of POIs.

However, previously the justification of forcing the kill to be in the sleeper volume was rationalized by at least you get loot to offset the risk and expense of resources in doing such.

Now we still can't do as any sane person would do and lead the zombies away because they won't count as kills to the volume, but we also don't gain the reward.

Just another thought on the change on loot factors and how it impacts Sleep Volume balance issues.

 

You can lead them out. That is what I will be doing. Almost all POIs have 5+ volumes, so you can't even tell what volume you are in. Obviously if you walk up some attic stairs into a different volume, kite back down into lower volume, back and forth, we don't need or want each volume despawning and respawning. You have to be 30 meters away from the volume edge for 30 seconds to despawn. Anything else is a bug.

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I think the most irritating thing i saw was MM trying to pick the arrows out of the corpses. I have two ideas that could make this less annoying.

 

1- the arrows move to a loot bag when the corpse despawns; or

2- you simply click use on the corpse to retrieve all arrows, instead of having to fiddle around with each one and their tiny-ness.

 

Also i want spears. and a shield.

But that's all I can think of.

TFP, you guys are doing great!

 

Well.... I think that would be how things work in The walking Dead. Having to retrieve those cuties from a corpse can be painfully difficult if you are surrounded. And yet it might be ugly and, paraphrasing MM: unsexy for some. Doing point 1 would revert back those duplicating issues. Doing second one would bring back the "that Zed is indeed dead as I see the letter to pick all the arrows". So I say leave it as is as we cant hope to have 5 reusable stone arrows for the duration of the game. What I hope to see is arrows on terrain dissapearing after a while. Skyrim maintains then on terrain forever and it's ugly and affects performance bit by bit.

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I dont know how your ui works so this is why im asking this question. Do you enable the zombie map icon when you are testing patterns?

 

No. I can watch anything I want in the editor scene view. I have tons of multicolored debugging lines that I can see grid updates, paths, obstacles hits, movement. Good tools are your friend.

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The problem with the system is that zombies can respawn in an area that's not only been cleared, but also blocked off from an uncleared area due to a barricade, and that's just weird.

 

If volumes didn't have to be rectangles, poi makers could more intelligently design them and you could limit the respawns per volume, not poi.

 

Respawns are per volume. Each volume spawns and tracks its own zombies. Clear a volume and it is cleared.

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Looks great

 

Hey TFP, A17 update looks great and I've been playing for about a year now.

 

I like all the changes with loot & zombies because it re-frames the player to be a survivor rather than a conqueror. I think the more immersive type players will continue to aggressively engage with zombies regardless of reward just as part of player fantasy. And I think the more "gamer" type players will be interested only in incentives and reward.

 

I always assumed the point of zombies turning into blocks on death was in order to raise the heatmap levels for your position. So after horde passes through you need to clean up all the remains in order to prevent the zombies from finding you again soon. Sometimes when I've finished killing all the zombies in a large POI I will get a wandering horde while I'm looting all the containers. I love this sort of idea that making a mess of things may be good for you now, but could end badly if you don't hurry.

 

With the removal of the corpse blocks will we be seeing less "horde chaining" as an emergent feature of game mechanics? I always liked the frantic rush to clean your base up, so much so I would often NOT loot corpses and just let the containers go away because I had better things to be doing, like shoring up my defenses or getting back into the field. There was a choice to loot and I often chose against it in some situations (like the night before a horde, or when clearing out a POI).

 

That's my only concern, you guys are doing a fantastic job and I'm looking forward to the update very much!

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@Faatal

isn't 30 meters the default distance for sight. in entityclasses.xml

 

I think they increased that with something madmole called pixel streaming or something like that so the entities are smaller in the distance but hog less resources? but im not 100% sure.

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7DTD: Direction and Meta concerns with Alpha 17+

 

Obviously it is still early to be critiquing the latest build, but some general trends are making me uneasy about the direction that 7DTD is headed. Below are some concerns I personally have about the game's direction based on the changes in the last couple Alpha releases and A17 development.

 

1. POIs: So, are the majority of buildings going to require a massive effort (time/health/supplies) and close quarters (now highly lethal) combat just to hopefully find some halfway useful loot? Or is it only going to be Houses? I sure hope the old style POIs are not eradicated or the game is going to get really frustrating. I preferred the original "potluck" method to the locations.

The jury is still out, but I am leery of this trend as it looks like a niche feature (skyscraper puzzle trap building) has now become the developer-preferred norm. Tell me I am wrong please Pimps.

 

Oh, and don't get me started on the frequency of floor "fall trap" blocks. As an occasional way to keep you honest or scare you in-game they are great; overuse is just plain annoying based on watching Joel's videos. I am not interested in playing "Zombie Apocalype Funhouse". Make it random with just enough "GOTCHA!" stuff and moments to keep me on edge, not so much I am frustrated with the experience.

 

 

2. COMBAT: Sure, it's undergoing changes as we speak, but melee is man... so... slow. Getting smacked easily by a thing that can infect me on any given hit is just crazy given the latest pathing AI improvements. Either the Pimps intend to severely reduce the % of infection or - I envision lots of restarts.

I am not sure why the whole meta changed to less dodge, more risk. Aren't we as survivors supposed to be more dexterous? If the melee gets tweaked then maybe it will be OK, but I am having my doubts for now. Ranged combat looks fine so far. But the combination of the POI meta above and the way fatigue and melee with limited dodge is working (don't forget fatigue/health) seems like a sticking point. Guess we will find out, but I am not enthused at this point.

 

3. MOST EVERYTHING ELSE: I am liking or fine with the vast majority of upcoming changes, so don't come down on me too hard. The game is improving in many, many ways, some rather un-measurable. Lots of technical, back office type improvements that can only help 7DTD in the long run.

 

CONCLUSIONS?

So, where does that leave me? Well... considering that interaction with a) the world and b) the zeds amount to how one spends the majority of game-time, POIs and Combat are crucial to the game experience.

 

I am worried that the combination and interworkings of the following will unbalance the game:

 

1. Puzzle POIs - increased time and effort to clear/loot

2. Melee - Difficulty increase through dodge reduction, swing mechanics and all linked directly to fatigue

3. Fatigue/Hunger/Thirst/Health - Focused changes to how they work and links to the game combat/experience

 

There are still only X amount of hours of daylight to achieve your short-term goals. Perhaps this will all pan out just fine, but I can't help but think that 7DTD is going to be a LOT more difficult to survive more than a few hours or days. Maybe that is the Pimps plan, they think it is too easy, too many exploits that need to be closed off.

 

Maybe the outdoor loot containers will be tweaked to balance the POI time and difficulty increase. Continued modification of Melee combat could lessen or alleviate the feeling of inevitability of infection/death. The whole condition meter sub-game may get tweaked to end up much more fluid and balanced. Only time will tell, but I hope I am proved wrong in my concerns.

 

 

Look, I have been here a long time and rarely make posts like these.

 

I have always been content to watch, wait and trust that TFP will come through in the end despite the issues and difficulties. I still am to a large degree. I have gotten way more out of 7DTD than I paid way back when. Still, I feel that sincere and honest feedback is why we are on the forums so I put this together.

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I think they increased that with something madmole called pixel streaming or something like that so the entities are smaller in the distance but hog less resources? but im not 100% sure.

 

No im talking a bout zombie sight to player. them see me

 

you are talking about i think LOD MIP

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No im talking a bout zombie sight to player. them see me

 

you are talking about i think LOD MIP

 

ohhh sorry misunderstood it.

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I don't think there will be an A18. We'll probably do a beta update and go gold after that. That doesn't mean there won't be some content updates though.

Please don't stop refining the game and making it shine even more just because there are some impatient kids whining.

7DTD and TFP will always rock!

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*grumbles something about people using statistical assumptions and incomplete data when claiming that PVP is a significant portion of the population*

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If you have problems finding food, its not because there are few animals...

Error Exists Between Keyboard and PC.

 

Big game is abundant in the Timber biome. (The one with the pine trees)

Forest biome is 2nd best.

Desert and plains suck as all you will find is rabbits and the occasional piggy, snakes are not worth the effort.

 

The best way to find food though is by looting houses with sinks and fridges...

MUCH more effective than trying to hunt.

 

Hunting just increases your wellness too with bacon/eggs.

 

Early game, I don't wander around looking for the best biome. I think, I need a weapon and tools to start harvesting stuff, cause night is coming and I have one lousy torch and need to find a place to hole up and hide. I don't want to read strategy guides or watch people's videos. I want I'm in a stinking zombie movie and death lurks around every corner and I must survive. The longer that process takes, the longer to figure out what I'm doing, the better. I don't want help or tricks to shortcut the process. Eventually I want to 'win' by having a base, with awesome defenses, where I laugh at the pathetic zombies, but then I've won. Game over. Bored. Don't care anymore. Time to play something else.

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guys, thanks for the link I previously asked. Are there also any news on the experimental release? confirmation it won't be this weekend or anything still in the air?

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guys, thanks for the link I previously asked. Are there also any news on the experimental release? confirmation it won't be this weekend or anything still in the air?

 

Roland has a red button on his desk that, when pressed, announces the release announcement for A17. All you have to do is press that red button.

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No. I can watch anything I want in the editor scene view. I have tons of multicolored debugging lines that I can see grid updates, paths, obstacles hits, movement. Good tools are your friend.

 

I want one

 

OMG can I do that in unity?

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Brass, Bones, Flesh, and Paper. the new monetary system. Seriously though; brass should be craftable [im aware Zinc doesnt exist in 7dtd, just recipe around that, involving the crucible.] paper and bones [glue] could EASILY be a corn type recipe. As for flesh, well im Flesh outa ideas for that.

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Is it because you got old, or because you are out of practice? It takes about 3 weeks to get razor sharp playing it 8 hours a day then I'm pretty good again. Even in my old degraded form I'm still way faster than most young dudes in their prime, but I always had super human twitch reflexes. Its true reflexes degrade, but somehow I'm stronger than ever and play guitar better now than in my 20's. If you practice, you get better at anything. I quit playing competitive multiplayer because the stress of it makes me hot flash. My ears turn beat red and stay that way for hours afterwards and its pretty uncomfortable. But I'm super competitive so I take getting fragged like very seriously, so as soon as I'm in it, my pulse is racing and its like a weird high. I used to play quake 8 hours a day, 16 hours on weekends I loved it so much. Now I just play skyrim because single player games don't stress me out. 7 Days stresses me out sometimes, but its fun.

 

Hell putting on headphones to make videos does it too I need a pair of ice pack head phones lol.

 

I'm pretty much the same. Used to play quake 6-8 hours a day as a teenager. Still play Overwatch a few hours a day to keep the reflexes sharp.

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Brass, Bones, Flesh, and Paper. the new monetary system. Seriously though; brass should be craftable [im aware Zinc doesnt exist in 7dtd, just recipe around that, involving the crucible.] paper and bones [glue] could EASILY be a corn type recipe. As for flesh, well im Flesh outa ideas for that.

 

Buzzards

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I'm not sure it makes sense to use real-world logic to justify an in-game change that was made for the sake of performance. Kill zombie -> get loot is a CORE GAMEPLAY LOOP in 7D2D and has been since the earliest alphas.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

Seriously Roland?

 

Your comeback and rationale is that because TFP choose not to display a graphic for a backpack they dont carry any loot? Thats fantastic news mate, now all I have to do when I play PVP so as not to lose any of my gear on death is not wear a backpack!! ...oh wait...no, that would be really stupid and illogical....

 

I mean, zombies aren't real in real life, so I guess they should be deleted from 7 Days. It just makes sense, and we're all about 100% fidelity realism here

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Hey fellas, good to see ya. I know most of us are disappointed with the new video posted by Joel, and many are talking about the changes mentioned in his video, but today I'd like to mention something that was originally the first things talked about in the beginning of the A17 development announcements.

 

What happened to NPCs? I know bandits are postponed, but I heard that factions, Traders, and other NPCs were to be implemented as well. Also, any word on taming wolves? There are more questions I have, but these are the one that bug me the most. Thanks all.

 

(Also sorry for the poor writing, I just wanted to get this out here.)

(Also originally from the subreddit of 7dtd)

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Buzzards

 

Good point; however, i'd note that how hard would it be to make the ragdoll drop flesh and bones; obviously it looked like it can sustain some harvesting with HP tweaking.

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Early game, I don't wander around looking for the best biome. I think, I need a weapon and tools to start harvesting stuff, cause night is coming and I have one lousy torch and need to find a place to hole up and hide. I don't want to read strategy guides or watch people's videos. I want I'm in a stinking zombie movie and death lurks around every corner and I must survive. The longer that process takes, the longer to figure out what I'm doing, the better. I don't want help or tricks to shortcut the process. Eventually I want to 'win' by having a base, with awesome defenses, where I laugh at the pathetic zombies, but then I've won. Game over. Bored. Don't care anymore. Time to play something else.

 

That. Is. Exactly. What. ok i'm done typing like a weird person. But THAT is exactly what is wrong with endgame.

 

Is there still stuff to do? Yes plenty, but nothing that has great meaning or the same fulfilling feeling as when you work towards endgame.

Not sure if the devs don't want us to do things at endgame? Or simply have no time for it? I hate games that once you FINALLY reach that endgoal with all the sweet skills, mega fireball, super duper invisibility etc. The game ends. Like dude wtf, I just got here. Let me reign some terror please.

 

Let me repair the radar dome, and upon completion everyone gets a shared map.

Spawn in zombie hives that I have to find and destroy or they will constantly keep spawning the worst of the worst to GPS track me.

 

Something of value. I seriously don't understand why these things aren't in yet.

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