Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

[Zadwanaa]

I'm trying to figure out why this isn't obvious to everyone else, but I'll take the time to explain my perspective again.

 

So, I started playing 7DTD in A15. Did zombies drop massive amounts of loot previous to A15? I'm missing how/why the zombie loot (or lack there of) will be an issue outside of missing out on a great source of rotting flesh / bones.

 

I hear what you're saying im just not understanding the logic. You can always run and hide, sit in the middle of deep lake and more often than not, you'll be fine... ive never had a horde night that was at all even remotely paid for itself in regards of resources. Zombies never dropped cement.. basically iron that i used to upgrade some stuff. Rarely, if ever, forged steel... Maybe duct tape. That was the best, the duct tape. How is it that such an amazing item as duct tape can be so rare?! That and glue...

 

But regardless, in vanilla, ive never had any amazing loot from a horde night unless it was the occasional military zombie. Everything else was garbage. Maybe its the "chance" for something good? the 1 in a million jackpot type thing?

 

I'm sorry man, I understand what you're saying but ive literally never had a horde night where I thought "Yes! Look at all this loot!". Bang for buck, horde nights have always seemed horribly inefficient. No real payout. Except for rotting flesh... I always thought "yes! now my cement mixer is going to be makin some serious fertilizer!"

 

Maybe i dont have your luck

[skullpoker]

There are even more smilies now! This is going to take forever! QQ

[akram22]

@Roland

https://7daystodie.com/forums/showthread.php?74084-Developer-Diary-Alpha-17&p=838868&viewfull=1#post838868

 

i think its not there ? . its a spider zombie one , with large peace of meat in it

[Odetta]

@ Rowland or dev

 

If I throw a rock at a zombies head will it hurt or stun them?

 

I'm gonna lmao if they don't react at all and the rock just bounces off them. Used to do this in CO-op games and die of laughter at the confusion of friends and family.

[akram22]

Roland , or should i say TROLLAND!! , whats wrong with the smile faces , iam xxxx , * system shut down * human destroyed

[Anabella]

<snip><snip>

 

It used to be that if you explored enough, traveled enough, killed enough zombies, that you would very likely get good gear early on but no more.

 

Even if you get crappy gear like a low quality iron or steel pickaxe it has been stamina nerfed to where you can't use it until you have perked up. By that time you can make better quality and it is totally useless to you. That one bothered me even worse than level loot.

[4sheetzngeegles]

Eidobunny is talking about mathematical quantification, of energy and resources expended with the expectation of a specific yield.

Anything else is a 0 sum or null. My son is the same in thought process. That's why we can watch each other play and give advice

but can't play same game together. Our game logic clashes like neg neg magnet. But i do understand it.

[eidobunny]

So, I started playing 7DTD in A15. Did zombies drop massive amounts of loot previous to A15? I'm missing how/why the zombie loot (or lack there of) will be an issue outside of missing out on a great source of rotting flesh / bones.

 

I hear what you're saying im just not understanding the logic. You can always run and hide, sit in the middle of deep lake and more often than not, you'll be fine... ive never had a horde night that was at all even remotely paid for itself in regards of resources. Zombies never dropped cement.. basically iron that i used to upgrade some stuff. Rarely, if ever, forged steel... Maybe duct tape. That was the best, the duct tape. How is it that such an amazing item as duct tape can be so rare?! That and glue...

 

But regardless, in vanilla, ive never had any amazing loot from a horde night unless it was the occasional military zombie. Everything else was garbage. Maybe its the "chance" for something good? the 1 in a million jackpot type thing?

 

I'm sorry man, I understand what you're saying but ive literally never had a horde night where I thought "Yes! Look at all this loot!". Bang for buck, horde nights have always seemed horribly inefficient. No real payout. Except for rotting flesh... I always thought "yes! now my cement mixer is going to be makin some serious fertilizer!"

 

Maybe i dont have your luck

 

This is all A15 and A16, since the trader was introduced. Prior to the trader being introduced you could still get some decent stuff because disproportionate amounts of ferals (wights) and cops would show up on horde nights, and they always had high-tier gun parts.

 

In A15 and A16 it's all about the trading game. If your trading game isn't on point you wouldn't understand. I grab everything worth more than 100 dukes. Puffer jackets can be a few hundred, beakers can be almost 1,000, complete guns can be 1,000-4,000, gun parts in the hundreds, running shoes and football helmets can net you 100 or so dukes a piece, hazmat and military gear sells for 500-2,000 dukes a piece, recipes can be 100-500 dukes, you can find treasure maps that lead you to 20,000-30,000 dukes plus diamonds and weapons worth even more. On an average blood moon I could nab anywhere from 20,000-50,000+ dukes. Yeah it isn't concrete or wood but I could buy all sorts of things worth way more than concrete or wood, and just recoup the stone and iron myself with a couple boulder smacks.

 

I'm a huge trader geek. I did an analysis of the trader back near the end of A15 which resulted in some changes for A16. Basically at the end of A15 I was able to get full purple iron gear and steel tools before the first 7th night, and I was trying to show that it was way too easy to exploit the trader to skip the entire early and mid game. Gazz looked at my case and adjusted a bunch of the prices and I think it's pretty fair now, but you can still make a ton of money from horde nights in A16.

[Jimmy_James]

lol well I'll just tell you if you know what to look for the average horde night netted me about 30,000 dukes, a round of 7.62 costs roughly 50 dukes which would be a compensation of 600 rounds of 7.62. I think that's a totally fair compensation since you're likely to spend roughly that much on the stronger hordes. It meant that I could fight a horde knowing that I wasn't just throwing my resources into the void.

 

Maybe we can forge brass in A17...who knows...brass was always a problem for the gunners.

 

Can you understand my point? If there is no loot on horde night iam totally fine because 7 days is a zombie horde survival game which plays in a apocalypse. You get nothing in this ♥♥♥♥ed up world but you are trying hard to survive, drinking beer,smashing zombie heads, train your skill and do what is needed to stay alive.

[Anabella]

This forum is full of chicken littles.

 

Wasn't there the same hysteria o and doom talk over the reduced amount of wood you got per tree for A16?

 

I doubt that they are going go back and rip the feature out for A17 so this is the way its going to be.

 

Do you hate it enough to delay the release of A17 another month or so?

 

Changing the xml for this would take 5 mintues. Not delay the game for a month. smh

[Tin]

@Roland

https://7daystodie.com/forums/showthread.php?74084-Developer-Diary-Alpha-17&p=838571&viewfull=1#post838571

Google search for the win!

[JaxTeller718]

lol well I'll just tell you if you know what to look for the average horde night netted me about 30,000 dukes, a round of 7.62 costs roughly 50 dukes which would be a compensation of 600 rounds of 7.62. I think that's a totally fair compensation since you're likely to spend roughly that much on the stronger hordes. It meant that I could fight a horde knowing that I wasn't just throwing my resources into the void.

 

Why do you need compensation though? Go out mine and loot. Bullets are SUPER easy to make. I mean its laughable. Mine some boulders, run your forge and you have 1000 bullets easily.

 

Im very saddened that the Pimps are trying to actually make this a survival game now after years of simplifying and removing mechanics and all it is being met by is resistance.

[akram22]

@Roland

https://7daystodie.com/forums/showthread.php?74084-Developer-Diary-Alpha-17&p=838571&viewfull=1#post838571

Google search for the win!

 

@Roland

hehehe, i was almost about to google it , we won this time trolland , now give us what we want ... what do we want?

[eidobunny]

Maybe we can forge brass in A17...who knows...brass was always a problem for the gunners.

 

Can you understand my point? If there is no loot on horde night iam totally fine because 7 days is a zombie horde survival game which plays in a apocalypse. You get nothing in this ♥♥♥♥ed up world but you are trying hard to survive, drinking beer,smashing zombie heads, train your skill and do what is needed to stay alive.

 

Here's what I think. I think that this game design could work in a different game that isn't 7 Days to Die. Like in Days Gone for example (

) you wouldn't expect to get loot off these zombies. But this is an entirely different design direction and game mechanic dynamic than 7 Days. I think having some reward structure for horde nights is important in the bigger picture of the 7 Days to Die design case.

[Deceiver101]

@Roland

hehehe, i was almost about to google it , we won this time trolland , now give us what we want ... what do we want?

 

Another smiling kiwi!

[akram22]

Here's what I think. I think that this game design could work in a different game that isn't 7 Days to Die. Like in Days Gone for example (

) you wouldn't expect to get loot off these zombies. But this is an entirely different design direction and game mechanic dynamic than 7 Days. I think having some reward structure for horde nights is important in the bigger picture of the 7 Days to Die design case.

 

the only right thing you say that i agree with you in is that you paid to play this game as you saw it then with loot, but the fact is that devs have another vision for this game that they missed to achieve then , but we paid for the complete game with the right to play it early access

[meganoth]

You're confusing "I'm ok with TFP because I'm ok with anything TFP does so long as I get A17 omfg gimme A17" and "This is a feature I sincerely have wanted for a long time". Closing ranks and clapping your boots isn't fooling anybody

 

Ok, I can accept you not counting some of them because they could simply be accepting but not positive about the idea.

But some have explicitly stated reasons why they like it.They said they are tired of looting corpses for ages after a horde night. Are you saying they are lying because they are a sect of believers?

 

Me, I have done this corpse-looting for half an hour on saturday and it was a most boring half hour. I want less lot bags, a lot less.

 

And I like playing stealth styles. So finding better lot in the cupboards and less or no loot in the zombies is a step in the right direction for me. Personally I would even prefer zombies to not give XP, a scavenger should get all his XP through looting. Not that I would change my style that much, killing zombies is still my favorite passtime in the game, loot or no loot.

 

Now, do you accept this explanation of my reasons? Or must I be lying just so you can keep your idea of this cabal of yes-sayers alive?

[akram22]

Another smiling kiwi!

 

the kiwis are fighting now , we cant add another one to the equation , maybe mmmmm , a release date to be next Friday for streamers and 3 days later for us ?

[eidobunny]

Why do you need compensation though? Go out mine and loot. Bullets are SUPER easy to make. I mean its laughable. Mine some boulders, run your forge and you have 1000 bullets easily.

 

Im very saddened that the Pimps are trying to actually make this a survival game now after years of simplifying and removing mechanics and all it is being met by is resistance.

 

Or I could just make 1,000 bullets and then ride my minibike on the 7th night and not expend any resources. I went over this like 6 times in the past few pages. The reward has to be intertwined with the risk, not separated from it. As soon as you separate it you open up the possibility of exploiting the gameplay to get only rewards without taking any risks. I'm fine with zombies not dropping loot or whatever. That's fine. But considering all of the mechanics in 7 Days I just can't see this being a good implementation. The only way this would work (having horde nights with no intrinsic reward) is if you were forced to engage with the horde. The reality is with multiplayer servers you can just log off, and in any case you can just sit on top a skyscraper or ride your minibike around all night and suffer no consequences. If you were forced to absolutely 100% fight the horde to the bitter end, perhaps in a controlled environment like a single-player game, then I would absolutely agree that zombies should not be a loot source.

 

I mean I really enjoyed the Outlast series for example. Great survival horror games. They're just... not 7 Dyas to Die. I play 7 Days to collect resources and make cool structures and then fight big hordes of zombies and not feel like I have to perpetually play catch-up on defenses I lose every 7th night. One day to recoup and 6 to advance would be great. I don't want to spend 3 days recouping and 4 days advancing. Especially in really late game when you have turrets chewing through bullets and all that. You might start to spend more than you're able to recoup in 7 days.

[Jimmy_James]

It would be very very cool if we all wait until the experimental is released for everybody who are excited to test it.

I will make a small LAN game with some of the dudes of our server.

 

BUT

 

If the sleeper respawn is still bugging or working like it should be and a cleaned house is the next day a house full of sleepers again and I can not get rid of it in the .xml’s.

I will know that’s it for me. But that point is far away... I hope 2 weeks...

[eidobunny]

the only right thing you say that i agree with you in is that you paid to play this game as you saw it then with loot, but the fact is that devs have another vision for this game that they missed to achieve then , but we paid for the complete game with the right to play it early access

 

I don't care about the money or anything really. I have got my money's worth on 7 Days. I'm happy with my experiences. It was great. But I would like to create more lasting memories with this game and it'd be sad if the design just became incompatible with my playstyle. It wouldn't be tragic or spell doom for the game, it would just be sad for me. So I'm here fighting with my best interests in mind. You don't have to agree with me.

[Anabella]

Well you can theorize all you want on the numbers that think that way to support your argument.

 

I'll give you an opposing one, there is too much loot in the world and I spend to much time looting and skinning zombies, I'm sick of it. I want to spend more time searching POI's. I want every loot find mean something because I'm not swimming in loot.

 

Pinnate zombies = easy mode and the game is easy enough as it is.

 

Dude if you don't want to do it. Then don't do it. No one has you at gun point right now saying "Loot and skin those zombies or else!!!"

geeze

 

P.S. if it bothers you so much turn down the loot settings to 25%

[akram22]

Why do you need compensation though? Go out mine and loot. Bullets are SUPER easy to make. I mean its laughable. Mine some boulders, run your forge and you have 1000 bullets easily.

 

Im very saddened that the Pimps are trying to actually make this a survival game now after years of simplifying and removing mechanics and all it is being met by is resistance.

 

sir your jop is to make " ravenhurst " back in A17 , I know you said it wont , but yeah its what 7d2d needs

[Tin]

the kiwis are fighting now , we cant add another one to the equation , maybe mmmmm , a release date to be next Friday for streamers and 3 days later for us ?

 

I think we deserve : to go with the slot theme with the other smiles.

[Melthe]

Thanks MM, Really enjoyed the Video

 

That was a lot of fun watching and I saw many things that I enjoyed and can't wait to play. Love the recoverable arrows, can't wait to check out those new POI's. They looked amazing. I hope in later video's we can see any changes / improvements to crafting. I would like to see the loot all/collect all for crating stations and scooter bike that was mentioned earlier. Looking forward to more videos and of course Experimental when it comes. :smile-new: