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Developer Discussions: Alpha 17


Roland

Developer Discussions: Alpha 17  

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  1. 1. Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

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Not removed. Lol. In other news Vehicles have also not been removed even though Joel traveled everywhere on foot... I know it seemed that Joel’s video was comprehensive but it was not. There is still a secret or two you guys don’t know and not seeing something is not evidence of it’s removal.

 

Heads to pink mist are still a thing.

 

"I always say the absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence. "

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will do you play to hide, if its the reality i would hide really ,in one of those spots ,so ?

 

I want to build a base and fight the hordes

 

I think that's one of the most fun parts about the entire game

 

Eliminating loot from the hordes will cause me to not build a base and avoid fighting the hordes

 

Do you see what I'm getting at?

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Yeah you can create arbitrary rules in your head and hopefully trick yourself that way, but many players will see through the mechanics and use them to their advantage. Many players experience a phenomenon where they automatically take the action they perceive to be the most efficient, even if that makes the game less fun for the player. So the onus is on the developer to make sure the player has the fun.

 

I had a discussion about this in a game development thread once, hopefully this conversation makes sense out of context:

 

You just missed my edit. Which is what really makes me curious. What on earth do you loot that even remotely compensates for base destruction? If i used your arguments myself i would be driviing around in my minibike all night for the same reasons despite of the every zed having loot.

 

Cheers

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I want to build a base and fight the hordes

 

I think that's one of the most fun parts about the entire game

 

Eliminating loot from the hordes will cause me to not build a base and avoid fighting the hordes

 

Do you see what I'm getting at?

 

Almost positive the madmoleman said there will be a boss that drops worthwhile loot on horde night in the recent video.

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3- Don't like the constant respawn of Zs everytime you back off to regroup...I guess that's why it takes 2 hours to go through a POI

 

I am a little concerned about that one too. I think MM did mention though that they would have to look into it I think.

 

One way it could be is that the new zombies you see are ones that were in other parts of the building that were alerted to you and moved to the noise. So if a poi would have had 15 zombies in it then if you cleared out 10 at entry point then rest of building would only have 5.

If though there are 5 on each floor (say 3 floors) and you are after killing 12 trying to get in basement and then there are still 5 on each floor above so you have to go through more than 5 from advancing/retreating because they all respawn on that floor well it could take a while. Especially if you die on last part and have to start over again from scratch.

That is my take on it.

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You just missed my edit. Which is what really makes me curious. What on earth do you loot that even remotely compensates for base destruction? If i used your arguments myself i would be driviing around in my minibike all night for the same reasons despite of the every zed having loot.

 

Cheers

 

It's hard to say as it's been a very long time since I last played. If I recall correctly, I would usually lose a good amount of spikes, maybe 100 crossbow bolts and a few hundred bullets, maybe do a little wall repair here and there. Overall damages probably in the realm of 5,000-20,000 dukes depending on gamestage and how advanced my defense was. The average loot would be sets of hazmat gear, military gear, weapons, ammo, recipes, brass, lead, usually about 100 bones, fat, antibiotics, beakers, etc. Usually I would be able to gross around 30,000 dukes or so selling everything to the traders. An investment of pretty much a whole day but definitely worth my time and energy to tough it out.

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You just missed my edit. Which is what really makes me curious. What on earth do you loot that even remotely compensates for base destruction? If i used your arguments myself i would be driviing around in my minibike all night for the same reasons despite of the every zed having loot.

 

Cheers

 

I think what eidobunny is really getting at is...if you CHOOSE to build a base in this scenario you are deliberately doing a less efficient thing for the sake of whatever. Like playing with one hand behind your back. Imagine playing monopoly with little siblings or small children etc...you could go brute force and annihilate them...but thats no really fun for you or for them. So you are forced to play less than your best so the kid at least will have fun...in this case, the game is the kid...lol and no one cares about the games feelings. eidobunny just wants to feel like he can go balls to the wall...play his hardest and get a respectable challenge WHILE using everything he knows how to do at his disposal. He doesnt want to self limit..the game should provide the obstacle worth overcoming.

 

I do agree that I rarely get enough loot from the horde to justify the damage they do even in 16. But again...its different styles and I respect both of your points of view on this because I have feet in both camps.

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Just finished watching the video going back and forth over things....

...

Obviously it isn't just texture shading holding up the release from the Unity upgrade...Seems ALOT more than that.

 

The only bugs I'm currently worried about are the ones holding back A17e from us. I believe art will not hold back the release so the only bugs that would (IIRC) is the sleeper spawn and the bow issue.

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@Prisma maybe you just don't know how to wheel and deal at the trader as well as I do. I pretty much know the inherent value of every item so I'm pretty good at min-maxing my trades. You can get 1,000 dukes from one piece of hazmat gear. 500 from a recipe. Close to 1,000 from a beaker. A full gun anywhere from 1,000-2,000. A rocket launcher from a military zombie even more. Gun parts in the hundreds. Yeah you don't get steel or concrete but that's what boulders are for. Max your iron, potassium, coal, and lead gains by only harvesting boulders. Way faster than searching for iron veins. Dukes replace everything else, go buy ammo, bolts, new armor, food, turrets, etc. using all the dukes you collect from selling zombie loot.

 

@MidnightRook exactly, thank you for giving a new perspective on my perspective. A way to word my point of view that I would have never thought of.

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It's hard to say as it's been a very long time since I last played. If I recall correctly, I would usually lose a good amount of spikes, maybe 100 crossbow bolts and a few hundred bullets, maybe do a little wall repair here and there. Overall damages probably in the realm of 5,000-20,000 dukes depending on gamestage and how advanced my defense was. The average loot would be sets of hazmat gear, military gear, weapons, ammo, recipes, brass, lead, usually about 100 bones, fat, antibiotics, beakers, etc. Usually I would be able to gross around 30,000 dukes or so selling everything to the traders. An investment of pretty much a whole day but definitely worth my time and energy to tough it out.

 

As said, you must be playing a different game as loot on hordenights doesnt give me even close to what you are saying here. Used to be different indeed, but with 16 defenatily not in my experience. Maybe thats why i dont take it as a big change.

 

Cheers

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As said, you must be playing a different game as loot on hordenights doesnt give me even close to what you are saying here. Used to be different indeed, but with 16 defenatily not in my experience. Maybe thats why i dont take it as a big change.

 

Cheers

 

I played 16.4 but that was last year already. idk how our hordes differ but military zombies, hazmat zombies, cops, and feral zombies all drop like 500-2,000 dukes worth of gear on average even in 16.4. I will routinely make a mental note of all those kinds of zombies I kill and even leave my base mid-horde to collect their stuff so it doesn't get wiped out by other zombies destroying the gore blocks or whatever.

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I am a little concerned about that one too. I think MM did mention though that they would have to look into it I think.

 

One way it could be is that the new zombies you see are ones that were in other parts of the building that were alerted to you and moved to the noise. So if a poi would have had 15 zombies in it then if you cleared out 10 at entry point then rest of building would only have 5.

If though there are 5 on each floor (say 3 floors) and you are after killing 12 trying to get in basement and then there are still 5 on each floor above so you have to go through more than 5 from advancing/retreating because they all respawn on that floor well it could take a while. Especially if you die on last part and have to start over again from scratch.

That is my take on it.

 

The only thing is...that is not the only way into a POI...alerted zombies should not be thinking..and saying.."I heard a bump downstairs..let me investigate." He seemed to be playing a game like COD singleplayer without save points. Just didn't seem to make sense with all the respawning. * shrugs*

 

Ouch

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I want to build a base and fight the hordes

 

I think that's one of the most fun parts about the entire game

 

Eliminating loot from the hordes will cause me to not build a base and avoid fighting the hordes

 

Do you see what I'm getting at?

 

yup , i totally understand you , but building a base still there , and not is still too . dont forget the other added aspects never mentioned once

playing the game must be fun after all, a company wont take that long to release a version less fun then the other , and if we assume you dont like it the option to rollback is still a thing .

 

note : many players complained about the gore blocks and fps drops , zombie loot is crap , etc .. that was the decision they make . maybe loot is still something with higher level Z's ?

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

I played 16.4 but that was last year already. idk how our hordes differ but military zombies, hazmat zombies, cops, and feral zombies all drop like 500-2,000 dukes worth of gear on average even in 16.4. I will routinely make a mental note of all those kinds of zombies I kill and even leave my base mid-horde to collect their stuff so it doesn't get wiped out by other zombies destroying the gore blocks or whatever.

 

they are not meals , MM said , and you had a lot meals there , time for diet . :)

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I thought about it last night and real zombies would not be carrying a bunch of junk. If we all turned to zombies right now, what would we find in our pockets? Not much. Some people may have a backpack on with supplies they were carrying to bug out and then died and became a zombie, but not many.

 

The POIs contain the loot. Zombies block access. Kill/evade zombies to get at the loot. Yes, on your 100 dude server you would need to increase loot respawn or a bigger map, so you can drive farther to find stuff.

 

Bones from zombie corpses? Maybe corpses could stay around longer, it would look better, but on bloodmoons we remove oldest ones, so FPS does not tank? Would I really want to hack up zombies ever? Good way to get infected. I think more animals would be nice, to get bones and fat, with zombies killing them, so you need to thin out the zombie population to encourage more animals to survive, but if a zombie kills a boar, could you not just kill the zombie to loot the boar corpse? Lots of ways you can go with this.

 

Much testing and tweaking to go.

 

Actually a great explanation.. totally agree ….but you forgot the condom in the wallet ... on the skater dude.

 

Maybe we need some additional zombies with backpacks "bugout/prepper zombies" or fanny packs "nerd zombie" wearing the poindexter glasses and cap....

 

and of course a ...

 

Coughs * Fireman Zombie * Coughs

 

 

 

 

Regards

 

Ouch

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*looks at bolded words*

 

*looks at rest of post*

 

Riiiiiiiiight...

 

-----

 

To the rest complaining about not being consulted or MM and TFP being out of touch: You do realize that they are making the game that they want to make? That's what most successful creative people do. If you don't like their product, then I guess you get to look elsewhere for the product that you want. (Or as Roland says, Mod it.)

 

*basks in the fire of your return flames*

 

Hey cool dude, thoughs are just my opinions, i like alot of what they are doing, but removing things like numerical item quality, gore blocks, and the wellness system are negatives for me, ill reserve judgement on the zombie loot until i see more on it. As for your comment on choosing a different game, thats very condesending, i love 7d2d, and thats why im giving my views on what iv seen, if YOU dont like it, you can leave these fourms, how about that?

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I played 16.4 but that was last year already. idk how our hordes differ but military zombies, hazmat zombies, cops, and feral zombies all drop like 500-2,000 dukes worth of gear on average even in 16.4. I will routinely make a mental note of all those kinds of zombies I kill and even leave my base mid-horde to collect their stuff so it doesn't get wiped out by other zombies destroying the gore blocks or whatever.

 

Your concern and point of view is valid and sexy, therefore I must fight your words with words of my own, dear sir. I agree that the loot from bloodmoon hordes can be very good, sometimes a little less good than we expected, sometimes might exceed our expectations by far. But keep in mind, this is a17, and from what I've heard, a military zombie won't might or might not give you gun parts, military clothes and some bullets. A military guy might or might not give you a tiny bag with A FULL RIFLE, A FULL ROCKET LAUNCHER, A TANK, A HOUSE AND SOME KIDS ALL WITH MILITARY GEAR AND ONE SPACESHIP. So now you understand that, even though we love to whine and whine some more. Whining far and wide to all the greek gods and the like ,still, the fun pimps are thinking on the best way to keep you interested. And they will succeed because of their god; The mighty Stone Boar who protects them and fills their souls with wonder.

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... Its just that now I don't feel like I have to kill every zombie-- especially every Frozen Lumberjack. I am more than happy to just leave those dudes alone now.

 

Experience for killing a zombie canceled?

What about kill zombies bosses? Will they have a good loot?

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but...visually none of them are wearing backpacks and many of them are in various states of undress. Where they keeping all that loot they meticulously gathered? Since we are into this apocalypse maybe all the tempting targets with backpacks full of loot already got taken when you wake up bleary eyed on Day 1

 

Seriously Roland?

 

Your comeback and rationale is that because TFP choose not to display a graphic for a backpack they dont carry any loot? Thats fantastic news mate, now all I have to do when I play PVP so as not to lose any of my gear on death is not wear a backpack!! ...oh wait...no, that would be really stupid and illogical....

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Your concern and point of view is valid and sexy, therefore I must fight your words with words of my own, dear sir. I agree that the loot from bloodmoon hordes can be very good, sometimes a little less good than we expected, sometimes might exceed our expectations by far. But keep in mind, this is a17, and from what I've heard, a military zombie won't might or might not give you gun parts, military clothes and some bullets. A military guy might or might not give you a tiny bag with A FULL RIFLE, A FULL ROCKET LAUNCHER, A TANK, A HOUSE AND SOME KIDS ALL WITH MILITARY GEAR AND ONE SPACESHIP. So now you understand that, even though we love to whine and whine some more. Whining far and wide to all the greeck gods and the like ,still, the fun pimps are thinking on the best way to keep you interested. And they will succeed because of their god; The mighty Stone Boar who protects them and fills their souls with wonder.

 

I get it; zombies can still have loot it's just more rare. I just see a potentially major design problem and I want to talk about it earlier than later. I don't care if it's more difficult or whatever, just as long as the zombies recoup some of my losses on horde night. I don't care about drops outside of horde night because I'll be looting PoIs not zombies. I get it. The only case I'm talking about is horde nights, in which the zombies come to you and as such are the only potential sources of loot. In fact, what if the zombies just had a chance to drop treasure maps instead of loot, I'd be okay with that. As long as I have some degree of compensation (delayed or otherwise) for base damages. Otherwise I'm just... not going to build bases or fight blood moon hordes. And those are my favorite parts about the game.

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despite a lot of faces showed up after MM gameplay , mmmmm , to say there opinions , they helped us to go over 1900 and still counting , we hope to break the number fast ,just dont stop :) , sure no one understand except the true survivors ;)

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I thought about it last night and real zombies would not be carrying a bunch of junk. If we all turned to zombies right now, what would we find in our pockets? Not much. Some people may have a backpack on with supplies they were carrying to bug out and then died and became a zombie, but not many.

 

The POIs contain the loot. Zombies block access. Kill/evade zombies to get at the loot. Yes, on your 100 dude server you would need to increase loot respawn or a bigger map, so you can drive farther to find stuff.

 

Bones from zombie corpses? Maybe corpses could stay around longer, it would look better, but on bloodmoons we remove oldest ones, so FPS does not tank? Would I really want to hack up zombies ever? Good way to get infected. I think more animals would be nice, to get bones and fat, with zombies killing them, so you need to thin out the zombie population to encourage more animals to survive, but if a zombie kills a boar, could you not just kill the zombie to loot the boar corpse? Lots of ways you can go with this.

 

Much testing and tweaking to go.

 

@faatal

 

I don't disagree. The idea of random rpg drops always struck me as a bit unrealistic.

 

But, don't forget the law of gaming "game play Trumps realism" and games are meant to be fun. Going around and killing zombies for loot is fun. It is currently the best part of the mid to late game. With no reason to seek out zombies I'm afraid that will become much less fun.

 

Right now, building a nice base with no exploits and defending it takes lots of work. I find it fun, but with no reward for defense the fun decreases very quickly.

 

Same thing with finding and making great new weapons. If there really is no reason to use them other than emergencies they really do not serve much of a purpose.

 

I hope we can find some middle ground, I understand you guys are doing it for technical reasons. But don't technical reasons decrease enjoyment.

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I get it; zombies can still have loot it's just more rare. I just see a potentially major design problem and I want to talk about it earlier than later. I don't care if it's more difficult or whatever, just as long as the zombies recoup some of my losses on horde night. I don't care about drops outside of horde night because I'll be looting PoIs not zombies. I get it. The only case I'm talking about is horde nights, in which the zombies come to you and as such are the only potential sources of loot. In fact, what if the zombies just had a chance to drop treasure maps instead of loot, I'd be okay with that. As long as I have some degree of compensation (delayed or otherwise) for base damages. Otherwise I'm just... not going to build bases or fight blood moon hordes. And those are my favorite parts about the game.

 

But they do give loot. Be it rarely (more rarely than now). So there is "some" form of compensation isnt there? Or does it have to to be compensation far and beyond? I dont get the problem really. I would if there would be no loot whatsoever on any zombie (hordenight or nah).

 

Cheers

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Experience for killing a zombie canceled?

What about kill zombies bosses? Will they have a good loot?

 

This is a good question. Previously, fighting any special zombie was quite futile, as they never dropped anything of interest. Now, if the loot thing also affects bosses, and you don't gain skill from killing them either, there's literally no point in fighting them. Waste of ammo.

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I get it; zombies can still have loot it's just more rare. I just see a potentially major design problem and I want to talk about it earlier than later. I don't care if it's more difficult or whatever, just as long as the zombies recoup some of my losses on horde night. I don't care about drops outside of horde night because I'll be looting PoIs not zombies. I get it. The only case I'm talking about is horde nights, in which the zombies come to you and as such are the only potential sources of loot. In fact, what if the zombies just had a chance to drop treasure maps instead of loot, I'd be okay with that. As long as I have some degree of compensation (delayed or otherwise) for base damages. Otherwise I'm just... not going to build bases or fight blood moon hordes. And those are my favorite parts about the game.

 

you missed his point , the early blood moon is complete crap, but with your words at this stage you will get from a military zombie literally A FULL RIFLE, A FULL ROCKET LAUNCHER, A TANK, A HOUSE AND SOME KIDS ALL WITH MILITARY GEAR AND ONE SPACESHIP , thats all ;)

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