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Developer Discussions: Alpha 17


Roland

Developer Discussions: Alpha 17  

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  1. 1. Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

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Digging simply adds another direction that zombies can move in. Upwards, they climb or jump. Sideways, they move or smash. Down, they drop off ledges or dig.

 

Digging down into dirt is no harder than digging sideways into concrete.

 

Digging does not effect sensing you. Sensing works in all directions and is distance based. The game does not model sound absorption by blocks (maybe someday we can add that), so hearing you up, down or sideways is the same. Digging does not just apply to ground. If a zombie is stuck in a 2nd story room and you are below him in a 1st story room making loud noises they hear, they can dig down through the floor.

 

Oooohhhhh, you put that out there now you will have to deal with the flak of something that was going to be added but wasn't...

 

(if it isn't of course) :D

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Yup. I saw the word "promise" in that statement a mile away...

 

Jeez Roland, I hit enter when I typed in that post and when the page refreshed you had already had a response to it....are you spying on me...how many fingers am I holding up...

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Jeez Roland, I hit enter when I typed in that post and when the page refreshed you had already had a response to it....are you spying on me...how many fingers am I holding up...

 

100.gif

You are in the matrix :spy:

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I’m just confused by the “si is not a variable on each block” bit. I never looked to deeply into that, but if it isn’t in there somewhere...why do things fall?

 

It seems SI is calculated on the block and surrounding blocks ONLY if a block gets added or removed. You can see this if you have floating blocks after a collapse. Just adding a wood frame lets everything fall down, even though the wood frame itself may be well supported.

 

So for example a zombie destroys a block => all 6 blocks around that block will be SI-checked at that moment. If that leads to the fall of one of these blocks, the 6 blocks around this new one are checked. And so on...

 

Here Here ! ! ! I rest my case! Here is the "It's the underground dweller's fault".

 

Well in this case Xeen is the owner of a server and he speaks about the players and the BALANCE on his server. Not about you or me. And in my opinion that is a valid reason as he is surely also a player on his server and I would bet it is a PvP server.

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i was reading after my first post and every post that someone had a different opinion of Roland would go off on how their point does not matter or not a valid point. So bad that I raged stopped reading and had to give a Really Roland. And for me messing up the english language I so apoligize for my ignorance and mental and physical problems that make speaking, talking, writing, thinking extremely difficult and offended some.

 

Not offended, just difficult to read. Maybe I need to take a nap.

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It seems SI is calculated on the block and surrounding blocks ONLY if a block gets added or removed. You can see this if you have floating blocks after a collapse. Just adding a wood frame lets everything fall down, even though the wood frame itself may be well supported.

 

So for example a zombie destroys a block => all 6 blocks around that block will be SI-checked at that moment. If that leads to the fall of one of these blocks, the 6 blocks around this new one are checked again. And so on...

 

 

cleared that up. ok. so then my suggestion of special zombies with the ability was stupid. move along. nothing to see here.

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Digging simply adds another direction that zombies can move in. Upwards, they climb or jump. Sideways, they move or smash. Down, they drop off ledges or dig.

 

Digging down into dirt is no harder than digging sideways into concrete.

 

Digging does not effect sensing you. Sensing works in all directions and is distance based. The game does not model sound absorption by blocks (maybe someday we can add that), so hearing you up, down or sideways is the same. Digging does not just apply to ground. If a zombie is stuck in a 2nd story room and you are below him in a 1st story room making loud noises they hear, they can dig down through the floor.

 

Are they sensing in all 3 axis? i.e. if they are directly above you on x and y coordinates but 40m away on the z axis are they thinking you are 40m away or 0m away?

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Disagree with the second half of your statement. Currently it is an exploit. Maybe not digging down to bedrock since that does require a lot of work to do and the depth makes more sense that you would have safety from zombies. But being able to dig down two with a hatch above you and be safe is definitely a problem.

 

However, the underground is a biome like any other. To say playing in the underground should not be encouraged is like saying playing in the Forest should not be encouraged. They just need to make the biome more interesting and remove the force field around it and then do lots of encouraging to go and play there.

 

Okay fine but if everyone at TFP knows it is a serious issue that needs to be addressed why is it taking so long to do something about it?

 

There should be under ground specific threats that the player is forced to deal with so there is no such thing as being 100% safe under ground no matter the depth.

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Okay fine but if everyone at TFP knows it is a serious issue that needs to be addressed why is it taking so long to do something about it?

 

There should be under ground specific threats that the player is forced to deal with so there is no such thing as being 100% safe under ground no matter the depth.

 

Their priorities are not our priorities....

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Their priorities are not our priorities....

 

Sigh.

 

This is a game breaking flaw, it just flat out ruins the zombie apocalypse.

 

Sigh.

 

@Faatal HELP, come save us, I'm begging you!

 

 

***The above plea for help is in reference to under ground bases ruining the zombie apocalypse.

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The game does not model sound absorption by blocks (maybe someday we can add that)

 

That sounds like a really complicated feature just to think about. Not only would you have to worry about how soft squishy things muffle sound and hard flat things echo it. But there's also how noisy digging in dirt is and picking at rock vs punching rock. what does wood sound like when it hits stuff vs glass or stone or dirt or some metal object?

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Okay fine but if everyone at TFP knows it is a serious issue that needs to be addressed why is it taking so long to do something about it?

 

3 likely reasons:

1) There are lots of serious issues

2) There was already a try to let them dig which showed problems (a crater landscape for one). A better solution was not immediately apparent

3) Fataals AI rewrite was an ideal opportunity to make another attempt.

 

Are they sensing in all 3 axis? i.e. if they are directly above you on x and y coordinates but 40m away on the z axis are they thinking you are 40m away or 0m away?

 

Quote: "Sensing works in all directions and is distance based. The game does not model sound absorption by blocks (maybe someday we can add that), so hearing you up, down or sideways is the same."

 

That sounds like a really complicated feature just to think about. Not only would you have to worry about how soft squishy things muffle sound and hard flat things echo it. But there's also how noisy digging in dirt is and picking at rock vs punching rock. what does wood sound like when it hits stuff vs glass or stone or dirt or some metal object?

 

If you want to make it very realistic, sure. But Fataal is probably only talking about an approximation, things like echo or pitch won't be simulated if they want a fast to run and fast to implement feature.

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Their priorities are not our priorities....

 

This is where I always just sigh when I read comments when they decide they don't want players to do x, y. and z. Play YOUR game the way you want to and move on. Who cares if people make tree stands, underground bases, or ride behemoths around. So many enjoyable things to do in this game. I hate to quote Aaron Rogers because I hate the Packers, but "Just Relax".

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Have you considered giving the ability only to one special type of zombie? Wouldn’t eat up nearly the amount of resources if there were only a couple in a horde. Or maybe a special zombie that somehow marks the support blocks? Then just have the rest get attracted to the marked blocks.

 

Or is it just registering the blocks as weight bearing in the zombies heads at all that causes the problem?

 

I’m just confused by the “si is not a variable on each block” bit. I never looked to deeply into that, but if it isn’t in there somewhere...why do things fall?

 

An individual block stores very little info, to keep memory use down, so it does not have an SI value it can just grab. SI is calculated in some fairly complicated code for a bunch of blocks when something changes. Might even be on a separate thread and done over time. Was a while ago when I looked at it. It looked like a closed system, that pathing can't just say what is the SI on this block without it running a full update and me having to somehow get it to send me values. Not something I want to attempt for A17.

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This is where I always just sigh when I read comments when they decide they don't want players to do x, y. and z. Play YOUR game the way you want to and move on. Who cares if people make tree stands, underground bases, or ride behemoths around. So many enjoyable things to do in this game. I hate to quote Aaron Rogers because I hate the Packers, but "Just Relax".

 

I just have to disagree, there are some causes in life that are worth fighting for and this is one of them, to use a famous example, should we have just relaxed when Hitler decided to take over the world or should we have done what we did and fight for freedom?

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I'm not sure I understand your analogy to Skyrim. Aren't you arguing against yourself? The point being in playing as different style characters will be achieved through capping. Instead of being the best archer/mage/whatevs simutaneously you would have to strike a more realistic balance.

 

Having no cap allows you to play as everything. I think that if you self-nerf yourself into being an "archer" even though you have maxed rifles and shotguns is just lame. Far less appealing than the game forcing me to either know shotguns or rifles or bows..

 

Luke: Amazing. Every word of what you just said was wrong.

 

VANILLA Skyrim had a hard cap, no skills could be legendary and your max character level was 82.

 

As for being forced to know shotguns or rifles or bows, that should never be a choice since you start the game with bows and getting rifles is purely RNG luck. Shotguns are in between since a real shotgun is RNG luck and a Blunderbuss can be crafted. While I understand that the basic skill of it is learned by doing, the perks should definitely not be limited since which ones you have to develop the related skill is pure chance.

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I just have to disagree, there are some causes in life that are worth fighting for and this is one of them, to use a famous example, should we have just relaxed when Hitler decided to take over the world or should we have done what we did and fight for freedom?

 

uh....Xeen. This is not even close to being one of THEM. Take a breath, buddy. We're discussing a leisure activity

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As for being forced to know shotguns or rifles or bows, that should never be a choice since you start the game with bows and getting rifles is purely RNG luck. Shotguns are in between since a real shotgun is RNG luck and a Blunderbuss can be crafted. While I understand that the basic skill of it is learned by doing, the perks should definitely not be limited since which ones you have to develop the related skill is pure chance.

 

I could quote Luke again here... Guns are craftable in A17. You will never be at the mercy of having to find a particular gun in a loot container. Craft the one you are specializing in.

 

Risk of choosing the wrong perk: Averted.

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Luke: Amazing. Every word of what you just said was wrong.

 

VANILLA Skyrim had a hard cap, no skills could be legendary and your max character level was 82.

 

 

 

um...vanilla skyrim eventually removed the hard cap because so many people hated it. so...

 

 

I could quote Luke again here... Guns are craftable in A17. You will never be at the mercy of having to find a particular gun in a loot container. Craft the one you are specializing in.

 

Risk of choosing the wrong perk: Averted.

 

and if you don't choose crafting? hmm? what good is your god named "science" then?

 

 

An individual block stores very little info, to keep memory use down, so it does not have an SI value it can just grab. SI is calculated in some fairly complicated code for a bunch of blocks when something changes. Might even be on a separate thread and done over time. Was a while ago when I looked at it. It looked like a closed system, that pathing can't just say what is the SI on this block without it running a full update and me having to somehow get it to send me values. Not something I want to attempt for A17.

 

yeah. i felt pretty damn stupid when someone pointed that out to me. idk why i thought that the game would have a constant running calc for each block.

 

 

lol says you!

 

#undergroundbasegate

 

 

 

#iwantterrarrialevelsofundergrounddanger

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This is a game breaking flaw, it just flat out ruins the zombie apocalypse..

 

Absolutely incorrect. The main thing that would ruin the game is the devs making it impossible to survive or impossible to build a base that can keep them out. The second thing is PvP. The ability to hurt another player or damage their structures should be removed from the game entirely.

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