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A16 - Gnamod


Haidrgna

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@dreamdancer

 

1646089975_Screenshot(2)_LI.thumb.jpg.89c3eb52613c184790094fb91032ebb3.jpg

 

Not sure if this works, but here is something that might show my base build. The "B" is where the beacon is. In this version, it is a bit too close to the attack zone... as I miscalculated 1 block. There are ramps going 3 directions to "collect" the zeds to funnel them to the 5x4 attack zone. I have turrets above to help me out (when there is ammo). I also have lookout towers on the side I jump to momentarily so I can shoot under me or on the sides if the Zeds are beating on the sides. I have iron bars as a floor in the attack zone, in case any Zeds congregate there. (this is a new addition to the base).. so I guess that is kinda like a pillar base... so I guess I'm a bit of a liar :(

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1526703589_Screenshot(3).jpg.ba74798ac1cb2105470c6f5282d51b7a.jpg

 

This is the view out to the attack zone. Needs a bit of repair after fending off night 6 horde.

 

For the most part, the Zeds will bunch in three spots... in the attack zone where I can melee or have turrets do damage (along with the upside down spikes), or right below me... which I can shoot down while manning the attack zone... or they bunch up and bang on the sides (cause the miss the ramps)... in which case I have to jump over to the lookout towers with 'splody bolts and get back quickly to the attack zone. First play through, I died while over on a tower cause a cop blew up and destroyed the ground under the tower (forgot to build down 3 blocks with concrete... was stressed out).

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I'd love to see your build. I've got some ideas on ways to change mine, but don't find the time in GNA Horde mod to do anything but rebuild, upgrade, and find ammo.

 

I've just joined my first MP server (WotW mod), and will try out my ideas there... when I get enough mats to do it right (and also find the right location). When it is built, I'll post or you can come by and see for yourself.

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When I get to it the singleplayer version should give a player some more time to build his base, currently it sort of balances between single and multiplayer, where in multiplayer the first couple of nights usually are not to hard and for singleplayer you can barely keep up since everything you need to do alone.

 

Some ideas I have that I will implement over time, is to make repairing a bit easier, I have already increased the strength of repairs on the tools so far which helps out but the concrete blocks and steel ones have so much HP makes it still something that takes to much time, while building a new base would be faster. I am going to try and introduce some kind of repair items that you can make and buy, which just instantly remake a block, but I could also go for that you can repair a block at once with the same block, essentially replacing it. This would however mean you cannot repair a block thats only scratched without losing such a block. I honestly also think repairing a block should be slightly cheaper than replacing it, so a repair kit that cost like 2/3 of what the full block would cost would make repairing actually worth it. Repairing currently is one of the biggest time drains and if you dont you will likely lose a portion or all of your base.

 

Then I will also look at how fast the forge takes in raw materials, I think it can use a bit of a speed up in general for all of Gnamod, since I am not really planning on adding additional melting slots. Things like iron fragments and clay should go in a bit faster.

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Repairing currently isn't that much of a time drain if you have a decent nailgun. The issue is getting a decent nailgun. Frankly, the main time cost is just moving from one block to the next if they've damaged a whole bunch of things. Maybe make a recipe for nail gun parts? Mechanical parts, plastic, and oil? With a decent nailgun, repairs aren't really an issue.

 

I am kinda iffy about the idea of replacing an existing block being a thing -instead of- repairs as they currently exist. I like being able to flip over to the nailgun or hammer between waves and quickly repair all the damaged blocks. I wouldn't want that to always cost 2/3 of the entire block cost.

 

Also, I will be a little saddened if your single player version ends up a lot weaker than the current. I am really enjoying the challenge. Just completed night 3 on survivalist, have steel already, 2 crucibles going, have a q190 nailgun, a shotty, and a solid supply of exploding bolts... best start yet. :p My concern remains that changing difficulty has no effect on horde size due to you using heatmap hordes instead of GS dependent ones, so any rebalance you do can't be tweaked with difficulty settings.

 

Other note that comes to mind is, watching Like A Boss play your latest experimental build: The costs of everything have been upped, but the rewards for killing haven't...? This risks a situation where each kill costs more money than they give. At current, the 200c/zed easily recoops any reasonable cost of killing anything other than cops/wights/radiateds, with some to spare for building materials/food/health/repair kits/etc. You always feel like fighting puts you ahead of the game. Change the costs of things too much and this starts to become questionable, at least until you have the capacity to make your own steady supply of ammo. Noticing the high cost of weapons in particular was distressing, given that your starting weapons are random and there is a HUGE gulf in efficacy of weapons for dealing with a horde. If the cost of a Deagle or Shotty is 18k or so, that will put it out of the range of things one can reasonably buy day 1. Which effectively means that a random start that gives, like, a 9mm pistol, a hunting rifle, an smg and a bow is an instant restart. Basically any start that doesn't include at least a shotgun or Deagle, just due to the extreme differences in efficacy and cost efficiency between weapons(for some players/builds, sniper could also be counted, but it's more specialized).

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The prices of raw materials have been reduced greatly, while the costs for most supplies now realistically reflect the raw material cost. Then the amount of cash being given to the player needs to be balanced around that. The current test version does not have the correct perk yet that reduces prices, the prices you see are the highest ones, not the average ones a player will grow to after playing for a few days.

 

Whats mainly changed on weapon prices is that normal parts became a bit cheaper, while the military parts are three times that base price. If the machine sells only military weapons this means you cannot buy anything. But thats why it will not sell military weapons so often at the start, thats where secret stash will come in.

 

It will not become easier, it will just not be concrete by day 1, but more likely a lower tier material. The hordes will match that as well, but thats why its a test version, not balanced :D

 

The weapons and effectiveness is on my mind as well, the starting pack already has a great influence on how well you will do on the first days, pack balance needs to be addressed and some weaker weapons need to be pulled a bit upwards to make them effective. But yeah starting off with like 2 hunting rifles currently will make it really hard. I probably need to make the packs less random so the combination you get will always have at least one weapon that can cut it.

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I still say having several preset starting packs could be cool. One that contains a decent shotgun, one that contains a Deagle, one that contains a sniper, one with crossbow and a few exploding bolts, one with a spiked club, top tier armor, some beer and a ♥♥♥♥ty pistol or blunderbuss, one with weak weaponry but a solid nailgun, etc. Maybe with the rest random, but at least give -one- type of thing that is guaranteed starting equip, with some player choice of which thing. Also would balance away the opposite end of the spectrum from '2 hunting rifles and a compound bow', where you somehow start with deagle, shotgun, exploding crossbow, and military armor.

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I do like the -idea- of "start with something random and learn to adjust", but the disparity between weapons and armors ends up with different starting packs not only being different styles, but vastly different in power level. Especially in terms of armor right now since the store doesn't sell it, and making high end armor requires serious levels, though I know you planned on changing that.

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The packs as they are now are designed for Nomad Mode. For that mode the initial pack defines the challenge and the setup allows you to loot and find other things as you go. For Horde Mode I am still using that same completely random pack, which includes a chance to get something like a loser pack (that has only one gun and not much stuff) and a winner pack (that has almost all kinds of tools and probably 3 different guns with ammo). That is clearly not completely working out.

 

I am also really considering making the packs even more basic (only some meds, armors and food), upping the starting cash greatly and basically the machine provides your starting weapons and tools. This obviously would only work if the machine is stocked well enough with stuff to buy in the first few days, enough to fend off the initial hordes. This also only works with the fixed beacon setup or the fixed central spawn, any version where the player would need to move first needs a solid starter pack.

 

But I am probably going to do weapon pairs for the packs, for nomad as well, to ensure every pack always has 2 Different weapons. Then I can just hand out one of the pairs, maybe leave out the really stupid pairs and have the really strong pairs be less common.

 

Also getting a nailgun should not be so vital, I hope I can get something working to make sure the other tools are not so weak compared.

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So. Survived 7th night on survivalist. It was not in fact a reprieve. I thought it might be, since I thought the heat hordes would be replaced by just a normal blood moon. But apparently no, more of the same. Only more. Yeesh. Started the night with no coins on my person, ended with over 150000. Have a total of 2397 zombie kills. This is a rather silly mod.

 

Learned a few things:

 

1) I think this is about as far as I can go with this mod, sadly. The numbers of zombies just overwhelm my little computer. I can deal with a brief wave of 'too many', that get cleared out with a few exploding bolts, but nonstop all night is not really sustainable. Definitely amusing, regardless, and glad I made it this far, but

 

2) The store does not produce enough stone to keep a base this size repaired. I have bought it out of stone every day for the past several days.

It is never enough. Though perhaps I am being too greedy, and should just cave and buy finished concrete. And steel. 4 forges making steel constantly is also not enough. Have also bought the store out of iron several times. Not sure if a smaller base would be easier, or just be destroyed more quickly.

 

3) Reinforced steel seems like a fun idea, but it is not at all sustainable. You will run out and end up with unrepaired blocks, which will be easily destroyed.

 

4) Too much ammo is never enough. Though thanks to cheesing femurs into the store, I at least kept my supply of exploding bolts sustainable. Now I just have to run to the pond and refill 300 empty glass jars. That's about enough for one night.

 

5) Finally, an eternal truth: In the end, all bases with rooftop defenses and anti-spider iron bars become pillar bases. Regardless of any intent to do otherwise, eventually one takes to the roof, runs around above the enemies, and rains hell down upon them. Horizontal pole/melee bases are really just pillar bases in potentia.

 

Probably will quit this, maybe get back onto making my own mod, but might still be up for an MP game. And of course will probably come try it out once you've released another version. All in all, a lot of fun was had.

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Yeah the current version is limited because of the horde quickly going over into the most extreme list. Thats why I am working on a new version so that it can be a bit slower everything, giving a player more time to build up his base.

 

Steel indeed is problematic, I am already thinking on how to solve the problem, but currently it takes way to much polished steel/steel to get a steel block. Repairing the base even if you get enough resources is what becomes a problem at some point.

 

Zombies are stronger and have more options in the new version, which means I do not need to send larger and larger waves every time. I probably will also put in nights where just normal zeds come so there will be some nights where its just killing time. The current wave of zombies after day 6+ is just insane and not sustainable from that point for a single man unless using a lot of cheezy tactics.

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So. Survived 7th night on survivalist. It was not in fact a reprieve. I thought it might be, since I thought the heat hordes would be replaced by just a normal blood moon. But apparently no, more of the same. Only more. Yeesh. Started the night with no coins on my person, ended with over 150000. Have a total of 2397 zombie kills. This is a rather silly mod.

 

Learned a few things:

 

1) I think this is about as far as I can go with this mod, sadly. The numbers of zombies just overwhelm my little computer. I can deal with a brief wave of 'too many', that get cleared out with a few exploding bolts, but nonstop all night is not really sustainable. Definitely amusing, regardless, and glad I made it this far, but

 

2) The store does not produce enough stone to keep a base this size repaired. I have bought it out of stone every day for the past several days.

It is never enough. Though perhaps I am being too greedy, and should just cave and buy finished concrete. And steel. 4 forges making steel constantly is also not enough. Have also bought the store out of iron several times. Not sure if a smaller base would be easier, or just be destroyed more quickly.

 

3) Reinforced steel seems like a fun idea, but it is not at all sustainable. You will run out and end up with unrepaired blocks, which will be easily destroyed.

 

4) Too much ammo is never enough. Though thanks to cheesing femurs into the store, I at least kept my supply of exploding bolts sustainable. Now I just have to run to the pond and refill 300 empty glass jars. That's about enough for one night.

 

5) Finally, an eternal truth: In the end, all bases with rooftop defenses and anti-spider iron bars become pillar bases. Regardless of any intent to do otherwise, eventually one takes to the roof, runs around above the enemies, and rains hell down upon them. Horizontal pole/melee bases are really just pillar bases in potentia.

 

Probably will quit this, maybe get back onto making my own mod, but might still be up for an MP game. And of course will probably come try it out once you've released another version. All in all, a lot of fun was had.

 

Sorry to see you go dreamdancer.. but also looking forward to your own creation someday. Respectfully, though, your base looks HUGE compared to what I was going for... in terms of the sheer number of blocks you need to repair during a normal night. My current build unfortunately uses the pillar defense "trick" but my next one will NOT (I hope).

 

But, yes, on these crazy nights, the sheer number of irradiated zombies (and total overall) start to bog down my rig as well.

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The reason for the size was to allow for multiple layers of pole wall defenses, some degree of funneling(not the degree you have, but those outcropping corners funnel them to 4 walls), and also not relying on pillar base tactics except as a last resort fallback(I did night 8, and didn't end up having to use the roof except for doing clean up). Smaller ends up meaning they break through faster. Because they break through FAST even with them piling up on 4 separate walls, each wall being 5 layers thick of reinforced concrete or steel(in the image, it's only 4 layers thick, but I added another before night 8 and got most of them up to steel).

 

It is pretty huge though. Lol. And a lot of the overwhelming resource drain was just getting the dang thing completed. It is a design that would probably work better with multiple players. Though they'd have to be careful not to blow one another up. The whole pole wall defense ends up leading to a lot of friendly fire from exploding bolts even with only one player trying to be careful about positioning. With multiple players, if I was in charge of base build and planned to use the design again, I'd probably make the center box a little bigger, make the funnels a little tighter(so the zombies bunch up more), and maybe make the roof higher(so shooting down with splodey bolts doesn't end up doing self-harm). Then 1-2 players could sit at the center and play shooting gallery safely, while others run around on the roof.

 

I may use these modifications next time I play MP, on a regular mod.

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haid u said theres no buildings at all in ur horde mode correct?

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

haid wats the blast radius of the beacon just curious

 

There are some buildings out in the woods around the fringes. But the central biome is free of buildings. There have been versions with buildings, but the current doesn't have any at the center.

 

The explosion radius is very large. You can test it in creative mode by placing the beacon block against a block with no support(like the flag part of another beacon). It's enough to annihilate most bases. Down to bedrock. And every living thing in the radius.

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I have just put the Gnamod 1.0 out on the Mod Launcher. This update contains a large overhaul of many systems, so much that I am still working on documentation (I have delayed it until the new version was complete enough). This means that I plan on updating this forum post and the documentation included with the download, and the downloads here to it in the coming week (my plan is to get it all out before the end of February.

 

If you are using the launcher you will notice an old version of Gnamod Horde Mode still exists. This is for people to finish of running games, it will stay there until the end of February as well.

 

If you plan on playing any new versions, be sure to manually delete older versions of this mod, and if you do not intend to use the older Horde Mode uninstall that as well. Removing old versions will clean up disk space and make sure it all works as intended (as the mods all share a common base mod the files easily mix, which means you could get a combination that works but is not intended, such as a new horde mode with the old map, or a horde mode with a nomad map).

 

Keep an eye out here to see what has been added, or find out yourself by playing :)

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Updating to the new version of Horde Mode will require a new game as your beacon might not exist anymore if you load an old game. In the other mods it may still work, but since I swapped some item IDs around as well you may suddenly find you have different stuff or stuff is missing if you load an save from a previous version. So my advice is yeah start a new game or keep the old version (which can still be downloaded manually) running until you are ready for something new.

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Its not impossible, but it will need support all the way up when you place it and the center of it always needs support all the way (any block gets taken out under the center block and the thing will break. This weak point is intentional as you need to put in some effort to keep the beacon safe.

 

But another reason was that in the previous version the beacon would stick to walls and not fall completely, it would just lose like a bit and the flag would just hang there. I think it was even possible to stick it on the side of a building.

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I am working on Necropolis, trying to get the world and spawns right. It is still bad on performance and the zombies are not yet where they need to be (not to much at day time around the edges and a lot at night everywhere).

 

I hope to get something closer to that today.

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