[Known Issue] Terrain Rewriting (MD5 Issue)

[MutilatorJuice]

I bought the game this weekend and played it for like 20 hours with my boyfriend... we got a little safe house and had already collected tons of stuff. I didnt mind the bugs like lagging and so on because the gathering and survival together is so much fun.

After we logged off tho,our whole house is gone. We logged out while being in the house and as we did before, but this time we spawned at night on an empty field. This destroys the game completely. Why gather stuff and build a base, if it can be gone any second.i'm sorry for the people putting a lot more hours in than me. I dont mind bugs, but deleting your whole game without being able to restore it is a different story...

 

We play on Ps4, private online game. Boyfriend joined the game. Adventure mode, 18 hours days..,we didnt do anything else than the other times we logged off, just this time everything was gone...we lived in a house we found in the woods. We didnt change too mych on the house yet, because we didnt plan to stay there forever. We build storage, forge, strong walls and doors and had spikes around the house. It was day 14, 11pm.

 

The update this week sounds like it should fix this issue. So hopefully you can continue to enjoy the game.

[zackjm]

Wow another month later and it's STILL not fixxed.

 

It's been over 6 months this massive bug has been around for? And it's still not fixxed.. 6 months.. you say they can take a while to fix.. true, but over half a year?!

 

Considering the amount of people who have posted here you'd really have thought this was a priority.

 

You say you understand and that the team understands how frustrating this is but I don't think you, or they do, okay they surely have lost work too.. but that's their job.. this game we play is our life, time away from our work, that we suddenly, without warning, lose.

 

Fair enough, games have bugs, but one which may as well delete the save? I mean come on..

 

This game shouldn't have been released on console in this state. And people will, and have, said don't play etc if I'm not happy.. I have stopped.. my friends with this game have stopped. But hey you still have our money..

 

And somehow poor people are still falling into this trap..

[sandman2838]

Some Inight from my point of view

 

Let me start by saying I really enjoy this game despite the problems.

That being said, we can all agree there are some bugs in the program, and my background in troubleshooting “ghost problems” in computers while working in the military gives me an appreciation of what the team is up against.

I am therefore posting what I have experienced as far as these “MD5?” errors are concerned.

First of all, I have played this game for well over 200 real hours, and though in the grand scheme of things it is not alot, it has given me some insight. I have experience this error a total of seven times and have put together a list of similarities to when they happened.

Game Style: 5 were single player 2 were private multi-player

Settings: All were Random Gen, Scavenger level, 120 min days, never run, loot respond set to 5, block durability and the rest at defaultFirst, let me say 7DTD has been the best $350 I have invested. I say that because I wouldn’t have even bought an xbox1 ha

Where: 2 were in prefab construction sights(existing buildings) rest were in bases I had built

When: Anywhere from day 21 to as early as day 2

What happened: Parts of terrain seemed to reset to day 1, the prefab structures returned to day 1 all my stuff disappearing. My own structures only partialy reset, It wasn’t until after the last reset that a pattern became apparent. On the last reset I had all of my secure chests stacked in one corner, and it was that corner, and only that corner that seemed to reset(the blocks that held the chests and the surrounding 2-3 blocks horizontally, but everything vertically, even to the third story of my base) It was the jagged outline of the last reset that turned a light on in my head and made me think of the storage boxes, and I am forwarding this info to you.

Every reset occurred while looking at inventory in my storage, and in all cases the only storage units I had were chests. I have rebuilt my latest base and have changed all my storage to crates. I will let you know how this works, as I am two days into it without a reset.

[Boidster]

Sandman, not to discount the possible insight about storage chests, I think the general idea about the MD5 bug is that a "chunk" (or possibly more than one) will get reset. A chunk is an X by X* square section of the world, from bedrock up to the sky. So if your base is built across the border between two chunks, and only one of them gets reset, then you'd see precisely the behavior you experienced. Part of your base would reset and part would not.

 

Could a massed collection of chests be a trigger for MD5? Sure. One of the triggers they found had to do with standing too close to a particular tree. So who knows what weird things might trigger it?

 

*I'm not 100% certain what the chunk size in 7D2D is. In Minecraft, a very similar game, chunks are 16x16x256.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

Hmm...can't edit my posts. Anyhow I meant Minecraft is a similar game as far as general world structure - voxels arranged into chunks and so forth. Obviously the zombies in 7D2D are much scarier than those in Minecraft.

 

Those Creepers tho...

[dwinget]

Wiping home after crash

 

Thank you for your info SaucyJack, I shall pass it onto the team!

 

Clare

 

 

I was playing split screen and the game froze and then crashed just after a hoard had come through. We were on day 36. Once we came back in our entire house was wiped and put back to Day 1. One thing we noticed is none of the structures were affected arround it including ones we built. We had so much built and accomplished and it is all completly gone in thye house. This happened to us a while ago almost 6 months now on a different saved game but we figured yall would have had that issue fixed by now... Obviously not. I cant begin to explain how dissapointing this all is especially with how much potential this game has yet it seems like yall are making no progress in fixing these errors ESPECIALLY with the fact that its been going on for months now.

 

Would love to know the solution to this if any because hours of work has been lost...

 

It is so disappointing and certainly doesn't make me want to come back to the game ever again.

[Damselx1]

I was playing split screen and the game froze and then crashed just after a hoard had come through. We were on day 36. Once we came back in our entire house was wiped and put back to Day 1. One thing we noticed is none of the structures were affected arround it including ones we built. We had so much built and accomplished and it is all completly gone in thye house. This happened to us a while ago almost 6 months now on a different saved game but we figured yall would have had that issue fixed by now... Obviously not. I cant begin to explain how dissapointing this all is especially with how much potential this game has yet it seems like yall are making no progress in fixing these errors ESPECIALLY with the fact that its been going on for months now.

 

Would love to know the solution to this if any because hours of work has been lost...

 

It is so disappointing and certainly doesn't make me want to come back to the game ever again.

 

The problem with this re-write issue is that here are numerous triggers, so while some have been identified and fixed already, there are others till in the process of being identified/fixed, which is why it appears to be taking a long time to eradicate. You can help by posting your game details - the more details they have, the sooner all the issues can be fixed. If you could post your console type, system/patch number, filename and the in-game settings you used to play your world, plus a bit of information about what you were doing prior to the reset (including day number and location, prefab or scratch built base, etc), you'll give the devs the information they need to see what went wrong.

[blaineket]

[xbox one] terrain rewrite details

 

certified refurbished xbox one, digital download, 1.0.11.0, local single player, file name: survive

 

Insane difficulty, Default run, feral aggression, 18hr daylight

 

drop toolbelt on death, 90 second memory, very high spawning, 100 block durability, 5 day loot respawn, 200 loot abundance, 24hr airdrops, 60 min hour cycle, mark air drops on, unowned minibike icons on

(note: I have changed the settings pretty much every time I log on depending on my mood, but I had had these game settings for about 5 in-game days before the crash)

 

Level 74 Gabrielle, wearing mining helmet, aviator goggles, bandana, red puffer coat, brown t-shirt, brown denim pants, the rest was iron armor. 128 Wellness at about 65% food and water. I had died about 12 in-game hours earlier.

 

Day 62, about 02:25ish, first terrain rewrite (that I know of), after a (very typical) game crash

 

Location at time of crash: my base in Navezgane, the house at about 805N 1277W. heavily modified with concrete, steel, glass, and scrap iron grates.

 

Current activities at crash: I was grind crafting steel axes (making one after the other). (I had done this successfully all of the in-game day, and started another batch around midnight.) I was wielding a sniper rifle (but not looking down the sight) on top of my base, looking south. Crashed I was turning back around to go back into my base.

 

Result of the rewrite after the crash: I retained my toolbelt and backpack contents, both minibikes still present, still parked on their wood frame platform. a lot of the house (90%) reverted to day 1 blocks, but not the front, which is still steel, concrete, glass, and iron grates. everything else is day 1. all 9 supply boxes, bedroll, workbench, cement mixer, campfire, and forge are gone. :-(

A short adjacent tunnel I made from the house to a cave (that I made) and to my "death cage" I used for horde night was partially filled in, but not at the 3 entrances, which all had vault doors or hatches. Within about 10 blocks around the house, the land reset: plant fibers came back, trees were back, and my wood spikes were gone, except outside the front (west side) of the base. Beyond that, a majority of the land surrounding the base (within 50 blocks) did not reset (but some did on the south side) and the cave I made close by at about 783N 1337W doesn't look filled in at all. My death cage close by (about 40 blocks south from the base, above ground) was minimally rewritten, leaving about 80% intact. Now that I look at it, the boundaries of where land reset and where it didn't is in straight lines. I can get discrete coordinate cutoffs if it will help.

 

If I missed any details, let me know. This wipe of my world was disappointing. To go on the forums and discover it is a known issue was infuriating. I won't be playing this game again until it is fixed.

[Covertdog]

https://7daystodie.com/forums/showthread.php?59932-Possible-work-around-for-base-resets-on-Xbox-One

 

I'm posting this link to a thread I created about the work around I have been using in hopes that it will help some people. It's gotten buried in the general discussion forum and probably wouldn't get noticed. I'm over 500 hours without a reset after suffering many before doing this.

[Markjiujitsu]

Same issue all others are having 😢

 

Day 15 game froze after horde night.

when i loaded back in half my base that I built on top of a roof in a small 3 building town had vanished all 10 of the storage lockers vanished same issue as reported by everyone.

looks to have reset back to day 1 lootable items re appeared again.

Loved the game but I wish I would of researched this before buying the game and investing all the time.

Great game but this is a game breaking problem sadly.

I'll check in to see if any progress will be announced

Kinda breaks your heart.

[Dandaman333]

Md5 error terrain rewriting

 

Hello all, this has now happened to me x2 both times where in main city cord 0,0 buildt base on existing building and both times had some underground portion once a huge ditch to bedrock all around the base and last time about 40 blocks deep by 12 wide directly underneath. I saved the 2nd game as y only the letter y cuz just b 4 i started this game i lost the first game to this error at 115 days in the city prefab house with sooooo much stuff. So i decided to spend my last hr of game time tonight writing you instead of restarting another game.

Xbox one console, disc, survival SP, nomad,enemy aggr normal, daylight 18 hrs

modded options toolbelt only, enemy mem 30, spawn high, block dura 50, loot resp 5 airdrop 24,abundance 200,

on day 49, 1500, cord 139s, 58e was trying to get into inventory and wouldnt load my backpack started glitching about 10 sec worth then crashed. I thought no biggie just another crash surly now i am used too sorry to say then all my goodies are gone again! Hours and hours wasted 10's of thousands of concrete thousands of gun powder. Funny thing is my steel bars are still hanging in the air not attached to anything. I do so much enjoy this game and can put up with alot and have never writen in any forum ever in my life but felt so disapointed decided to share hope this helps.

[rath422]

I found a way to make it happen on a world no matter what day if you get the bug log out delete the map then make a new one with the same name then start the world run around and in all the places you see the terrain is glitches these are the areas that will reset in your game witch means if you focus on those area's you will be able to once and for all find and fix the issue

[Clare]

I found a way to make it happen on a world no matter what day if you get the bug log out delete the map then make a new one with the same name then start the world run around and in all the places you see the terrain is glitches these are the areas that will reset in your game witch means if you focus on those area's you will be able to once and for all find and fix the issue

 

Hi Rath422,

 

Can you please elaborate on this and possibly give clearer steps?

 

Clare

[FattyBlunt420]

It happened to me.

 

I played for maybe 40 hours in a solo world and my base got wiped. Really hurt my feelings. Please try to fix this problem. Stardew Valley had an awful problems they fixed having to do with auto saves and crashes.The stardew valley would save but when it got transferred to the cloud some things would be lost 1% of the time.. I am not really sure I should try to farm n grind another 40 hours knowing this might happen to me again. Your game crashes often and auto saves. My solo player world is more stable than multiplayer but the glitch happened on my solo player. I crash like 10 times in 12 hours when I play multiplayer. I crash like once every 20 hours on my solo player world. You can only take away peoples bases for so long before they give up and move on to a more stable permanent game.

[Damselx1]

I played for maybe 40 hours in a solo world and my base got wiped. Really hurt my feelings. Please try to fix this problem. Stardew Valley had an awful problems they fixed having to do with auto saves and crashes.The stardew valley would save but when it got transferred to the cloud some things would be lost 1% of the time.. I am not really sure I should try to farm n grind another 40 hours knowing this might happen to me again. Your game crashes often and auto saves. My solo player world is more stable than multiplayer but the glitch happened on my solo player. I crash like 10 times in 12 hours when I play multiplayer. I crash like once every 20 hours on my solo player world. You can only take away peoples bases for so long before they give up and move on to a more stable permanent game.

 

It would help if you posted details of your game - console type, seed name, in game settings and what you were doing before the game crashed and the terrain reset. Also helps to include if you are in a prefab base that you've upgraded, or wither its something you built from scratch and what day you are on. Any pictures or video from just before would help too, if you have them.

 

There are numerous triggers for this bug and the devs have already identified and fixed a lot of them, but there are more being identified, which is why they ask you for the game details - you may have found a trigger they don't know about.

[DrSvenVonGibson]

Fix your ♥♥♥♥ing game!!!!

 

I'm done.

 

I'm officially done with your ♥♥♥♥ing poor excuse of a game. I'm tired of this rewrite. This issue should be your main focus and this should have been fixed 17 ♥♥♥♥ing patches ago. It's game breaking. Do you guys understand what is happening? All of the time that your players are playing this shoddy piece of ♥♥♥♥ is wasted, just because, "Well, Maybe we will get around to it eventually." I don't care if you guys have to pull this game from Xbox or PS4, and completely ♥♥♥♥ing rewrite the whole script and what have you. This is getting seriously frustrating.

 

Why should I play your game anymore? Not like you guys care, you already have my money, but this is unacceptable! This is the second time I've wrote about this. The first time, We got around to Day 50, and the base we had (Which was a building that was randomly generated in a randomly generated map, which I now know is a bad idea, and why we BUILT THIS NEXT BASE FROM THE GROUND UP) just disappeared. Bye. Gone. No sight of any of the hard work we put into the ♥♥♥♥ing game, all the hours lost. Gone. ♥♥♥♥ it. And you know what? Despite my better judgement, My girlfriend (Who I play this game for hours with) got me back into it for another run. There is no way that they would ♥♥♥♥ us again, right? ♥♥♥♥IN' WRONG!

 

So. Here we are, It's 2:43AM on a Friday. Day 74. The game crashes, because reasons, and what do we see when we get back into the game? Poof. Gone. ♥♥♥♥ing everything we worked on. Gone. Do you think that's fun? Do you think that makes me want to buy into any other game or project you develop for this point on? I used to love this game, but unfortunately, loving this game just bites you in the ♥♥♥♥ing ass later.

 

So here we are, I blew $14.99 on this gigantic failure, and this is what I ♥♥♥♥ing get for it? ♥♥♥♥ you guys. You need to get this fixed now. There is no ♥♥♥♥ing excuse for this catastrophic bug on the console versions to still exist. Fix it, Or I want my money back.

 

A VERY pissed off ex-fan.

[Nicadeamus]

Same thing

 

I'm done.

 

I'm officially done with your ♥♥♥♥ing poor excuse of a game. I'm tired of this rewrite. This issue should be your main focus and this should have been fixed 17 ♥♥♥♥ing patches ago. It's game breaking. Do you guys understand what is happening? All of the time that your players are playing this shoddy piece of ♥♥♥♥ is wasted, just because, "Well, Maybe we will get around to it eventually." I don't care if you guys have to pull this game from Xbox or PS4, and completely ♥♥♥♥ing rewrite the whole script and what have you. This is getting seriously frustrating.

 

Why should I play your game anymore? Not like you guys care, you already have my money, but this is unacceptable! This is the second time I've wrote about this. The first time, We got around to Day 50, and the base we had (Which was a building that was randomly generated in a randomly generated map, which I now know is a bad idea, and why we BUILT THIS NEXT BASE FROM THE GROUND UP) just disappeared. Bye. Gone. No sight of any of the hard work we put into the ♥♥♥♥ing game, all the hours lost. Gone. ♥♥♥♥ it. And you know what? Despite my better judgement, My girlfriend (Who I play this game for hours with) got me back into it for another run. There is no way that they would ♥♥♥♥ us again, right? ♥♥♥♥IN' WRONG!

 

So. Here we are, It's 2:43AM on a Friday. Day 74. The game crashes, because reasons, and what do we see when we get back into the game? Poof. Gone. ♥♥♥♥ing everything we worked on. Gone. Do you think that's fun? Do you think that makes me want to buy into any other game or project you develop for this point on? I used to love this game, but unfortunately, loving this game just bites you in the ♥♥♥♥ing ass later.

 

So here we are, I blew $14.99 on this gigantic failure, and this is what I ♥♥♥♥ing get for it? ♥♥♥♥ you guys. You need to get this fixed now. There is no ♥♥♥♥ing excuse for this catastrophic bug on the console versions to still exist. Fix it, Or I want my money back.

 

A VERY pissed off ex-fan.

 

I am also very annoyed. My wife and I are on day 94 and we had a badass prefab base that we uograded to the fullest. Defenses everywhere, an underground mine from our base. Tons of guns and resources (not weak guns either 400 plus on most) crates full of ammo and supplies for more ammo. Calipers which are damn near impossible to find. All gone. The terrain itself got rewrote but its like it went threw the base and cut off some upgrades we did. My minibikes stayed but the garage i made them gone. I know you want all this information about what was going on what we were running, but its apparent that its a common issue and after reading a lot of the complaints on terrain writing more of the same info isnt going to help. I will tell you its privtae multiplayer on nazegane. And all i was doing was going pee and came back and game crashed. Which by the way in itself is frusturating that it keeps crashing all the time which should have been fixed by now. Started back up everything gone. Now as a consumer when you put something on the shelves it tells us its ready to go, and for the most part every game has its bugs and generally are fixed right away. Its a bad business practice to continue to do this. Now most of us deal with the crashes because the game has so much potential and its fun. However after putting hours into a game to have your time wasted and lose everything is where my bottom line is drawn. We are in the age of aocial media and peritions and protests. It isnt going to be long before someone starts with stuff like this. Now the main point here is either fix this issue faster than typing we are working on it for the millionth time, or do something for the community thats already giving their money. I know it must be nice with all that money to do and buy such wonderful things for yourself but its time to give back to the people that have been so patient with you guys. And i hope other gamers reading what i wrote get on board and start demanding satisfaction for a product that was bought and failed to perform.

[ZombieHoG]

...and this is how you complain. Thx, was a pleasure to read compared to the insult above.

[Nicadeamus]

Just a heads up i just tried powering through after the terrain reset killed my prefab base. And the wife and i just spent 4 hours on a new base from the ground up. We hit day 98 horde night game crashed and terrain just reset everything we just did. It cut it in half. This has never happened to me before yet it happened twice within 12 hours. Three my controller and am officially done. Sorry, game had great potential but its nothing but a waste of time.

[FattyBlunt420]

It would help if you posted details of your game - console type, seed name, in game settings and what you were doing before the game crashed and the terrain reset. Also helps to include if you are in a prefab base that you've upgraded, or wither its something you built from scratch and what day you are on. Any pictures or video from just before would help too, if you have them.

 

There are numerous triggers for this bug and the devs have already identified and fixed a lot of them, but there are more being identified, which is why they ask you for the game details - you may have found a trigger they don't know about.

 

I am on x-box random gen. not prefab base. The game crashes like 12 times a day when multiplayer and 2 times a day solo world. It crashes all the time. I was just standing there and went to turn around and it crashed like it does sometimes... I have been trying the trick I read on a few pages back tho and I delete my 7days saved info off my console after it crashes. I gotta re-sync up after every crash and that is a pain in the @ss but so far no re-writes.

[DrSvenVonGibson]

I am also very annoyed. My wife and I are on day 94 and we had a badass prefab base that we uograded to the fullest. Defenses everywhere, an underground mine from our base. Tons of guns and resources (not weak guns either 400 plus on most) crates full of ammo and supplies for more ammo. Calipers which are damn near impossible to find. All gone. The terrain itself got rewrote but its like it went threw the base and cut off some upgrades we did. My minibikes stayed but the garage i made them gone. I know you want all this information about what was going on what we were running, but its apparent that its a common issue and after reading a lot of the complaints on terrain writing more of the same info isnt going to help. I will tell you its privtae multiplayer on nazegane. And all i was doing was going pee and came back and game crashed. Which by the way in itself is frusturating that it keeps crashing all the time which should have been fixed by now. Started back up everything gone. Now as a consumer when you put something on the shelves it tells us its ready to go, and for the most part every game has its bugs and generally are fixed right away. Its a bad business practice to continue to do this. Now most of us deal with the crashes because the game has so much potential and its fun. However after putting hours into a game to have your time wasted and lose everything is where my bottom line is drawn. We are in the age of aocial media and peritions and protests. It isnt going to be long before someone starts with stuff like this. Now the main point here is either fix this issue faster than typing we are working on it for the millionth time, or do something for the community thats already giving their money. I know it must be nice with all that money to do and buy such wonderful things for yourself but its time to give back to the people that have been so patient with you guys. And i hope other gamers reading what i wrote get on board and start demanding satisfaction for a product that was bought and failed to perform.

 

This is what I'm talking about. So the developers are sitting there, laughing at you, and are not doing anything to help this situation out. This problem was brought up in September of 2016. Almost a year now, and this problem still exists. People are not going to want to play your game and I promise that I will not hype this game up to friends or family who are looking for a game like this.

 

When I play a game that I sink 100 or 200+ hours into, I expect everything I do to stay there so I can show my amazing base to my friends. But ♥♥♥♥ that right? Fun Pimps have our money.

[Nicadeamus]

Ive just noticed something on the second crash/rewrite. Both times it happened to me my base was by a poi that we destroyed for more land and clearing. Is there something by doing that when stuff respawns it rewrites the pois back in and there is a certain area of affect? As in the game knows there is a poi there and when it doesnt see it, it crashes and rebuilds the poi? I think you guys should look into it. Also if anyone else out there has done the same thing similar to myself and my wife this would be something the devs can key in on.

[DrSvenVonGibson]

Ive just noticed something on the second crash/rewrite. Both times it happened to me my base was by a poi that we destroyed for more land and clearing. Is there something by doing that when stuff respawns it rewrites the pois back in and there is a certain area of affect? As in the game knows there is a poi there and when it doesnt see it, it crashes and rebuilds the poi? I think you guys should look into it. Also if anyone else out there has done the same thing similar to myself and my wife this would be something the devs can key in on.

 

We intentionally made our base away from any POIs after our first wipe in the Prefab. So, that isn't the reason. The game decides that whatever chunk you are working in is too hard to reload, and wipes it to Day 1. It's absolutely retarded.

[Damselx1]

Ive just noticed something on the second crash/rewrite. Both times it happened to me my base was by a poi that we destroyed for more land and clearing. Is there something by doing that when stuff respawns it rewrites the pois back in and there is a certain area of affect? As in the game knows there is a poi there and when it doesnt see it, it crashes and rebuilds the poi? I think you guys should look into it. Also if anyone else out there has done the same thing similar to myself and my wife this would be something the devs can key in on.

 

There has been issues with some of the POIs resetting, but the MD5 rewrite can happen anywhere. If you have cleared a large area by collapsing structures/ground, it can cause issues. There has been a lot of fixes through already, but as there are numerous triggers for this problem, there's still work to be done. if you could add your console and game details, the devs will know if what's happening is triggered by something they are aware of already, or whether you've identified something new.

[Nicadeamus]

I gave this info earlier post but i shall again to try and help. Xbox one/private multiplayer/nazgane/scavenger. Now been playing for almost a year never had this issue. However the last 2 days it has happened to us 3 times since yesterday. So i am guessing something was tweaked or worked on and now it is affecting us. I realize its something thats been happening to others but now affects my game. So whatever tweaks you made the last 2 possibly 3 days has made it unbearable. I also notice when my game crashes and makes a horrible noise it happens. If it crashes quietly and just goes back to main xbox screen it doesnt. Not sure if that little bit of info is anymore help. Hope so

[Goldenfury86]

Worst feeling ever

 

I gave this info earlier post but i shall again to try and help. Xbox one/private multiplayer/nazgane/scavenger. Now been playing for almost a year never had this issue. However the last 2 days it has happened to us 3 times since yesterday. So i am guessing something was tweaked or worked on and now it is affecting us. I realize its something thats been happening to others but now affects my game. So whatever tweaks you made the last 2 possibly 3 days has made it unbearable. I also notice when my game crashes and makes a horrible noise it happens. If it crashes quietly and just goes back to main xbox screen it doesnt. Not sure if that little bit of info is anymore help. Hope so

 

I loss my base today on Xbox 1 while searching my inventory. The game froze and made a crazy glitched out sound and restarted. When I returned to the game my base was gone. I thought I loaded the wrong character. I was completely shocked and at a loss.