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True Survival

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Hey, apparently a new server is on (name "True Survival"), set up by Bear Jew. Thanks for this :)

 

Just a quick message to say the server needs a restart, Moe can't join the server anymore and I started to get a lot of delayed actions (looting, delayed sounds...)

 

cheers !

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Hey, apparently a new server is on (name "True Survival"), set up by Bear Jew. Thanks for this :)

 

Just a quick message to say the server needs a restart, Moe can't join the server anymore and I started to get a lot of delayed actions (looting, delayed sounds...)

 

cheers !

 

All good, thx !

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I was coming on the forum to say I hope A17 will please Spider so that he would update his mod.

 

I'm so happy you're up for it !!! ^^

 

I'm available for testing/discussion/ideas anytime !

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Sent you a little donation yesterday, Spider. I'm extremely looking forward to a playable A17 version of your mod! :fat:

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Ok I spent the week with A17 now it's time to get to it. I won't waste your time complaining about the bad things because I got a lot of work to do. As of right now improving crafting quality by crafting is out unless I or someone else figures out a way to do it. So let get to what I can do.

 

Building Progression-

All these Blocks recipes would be unlocked from the start

 

Wood Frame Block made with Wood Scrap (upgrade=Plank)

Scrap Iron Frame Block made with scrap Iron(upgrade=SheetMetal)

Rebar Frame Block made in Forge with Iron(upgrade=SteelPlates)

Flagstone Block made with Stone(upgrade=Bricks)

 

The recipes for the upgrade items needed for each block and the complete recipe list of shapes for each building style would unlock through quest that everyone will have on game start.

 

Building Quest-

Wood Frame/Scrap Iron Frame/Rebar Frame

Would all have the same style quest. A 1 part quest that requires the player to upgrade 250 Frames of the given style. Once finished the player would unlock the recipes for the upgrade material and for all the shapes of blocks of the given style.

 

Flagstone Block-

Would have a 2 part quest that requires the player to craft 250 Flagstone Blocks. Once finished the player would unlock the all the shapes of Flagstone blocks and get a second quest. Part 2 would require the player upgrade 250 flagstone blocks. Once finished the player would unlock the recipes for the Bricks(the upgrade material) and for all the shapes of Brick blocks.

 

Game Play Note-

All world building blocks would drop some upgrading materials of that style when destroyed. To do all of these quest the player would have to loot upgrading supplies or destroy world building blocks of the same style to find the needed upgrading materials.

 

Weapons-

Stats

I want to go back to the stats coming from the weapons quality and the modifications the player applies to them and not player purchased perks. So rebalance all weapons to feel more like a real weapon. I will be making it more like before where headshots kill.

Loot

I want to go back to finding weapon parts to craft guns. Whole guns should be super rare and only max level 2 weapons found in loot at all.

Parts and Recipes

We can't do gun parts like before but we could still need to find 3-5 gun parts to build a working guns(no crafting gun parts). The parts just wouldn't have a quality or effect the guns stats they would just be normal items used in recipes. We could go back to finding books to teach you how to assemble each gun.

 

That's all I have for now let me know what you think.

 

Die Well!

 

Things to think on….

Farming progression/system?

The process to raise your crafting quality Quest/Perk/Book?

Many more attributes now to make unique Professions.

Steel Block Quest/Perk/Book?

Edited by Spider (see edit history)

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Ok I spent the week with A17 now it's time to get to it. I won't waste your time complaining about the bad things because I got a lot of work to do. As of right now improving crafting quality by crafting is out unless I or someone else figures out a way to do it. So let get to what I can do.

 

Building Progression-

All these Blocks recipes would be unlocked from the start

 

Wood Frame Block made with Wood Scrap (upgrade=Plank)

Scrap Iron Frame Block made with scrap Iron(upgrade=SheetMetal)

Rebar Frame Block made in Forge with Iron(upgrade=SteelPlates)

Flagstone Block made with Stone(upgrade=Bricks)

 

The recipes for the upgrade items needed for each block and the complete recipe list of shapes for each building style would unlock through quest that everyone will have on game start.

 

Building Quest-

Wood Frame/Scrap Iron Frame/Rebar Frame

Would all have the same style quest. A 1 part quest that requires the player to upgrade 250 Frames of the given style. Once finished the player would unlock the recipes for the upgrade material and for all the shapes of blocks of the given style.

 

Flagstone Block-

Would have a 2 part quest that requires the player to craft 250 Flagstone Blocks. Once finished the player would unlock the all the shapes of Flagstone blocks and get a second quest. Part 2 would require the player upgrade 250 flagstone blocks. Once finished the player would unlock the recipes for the Bricks(the upgrade material) and for all the shapes of Brick blocks.

 

Game Play Note-

All world building blocks would drop some upgrading materials of that style when destroyed. To do all of these quest the player would have to loot upgrading supplies or destroy world building blocks of the same style to find the needed upgrading materials.

 

Weapons-

Stats

I want to go back to the stats coming from the weapons quality and the modifications the player applies to them and not player purchased perks. So rebalance all weapons to feel more like a real weapon. I will be making it more like before where headshots kill.

Loot

I want to go back to finding weapon parts to craft guns. Whole guns should be super rare and only max level 2 weapons found in loot at all.

Parts and Recipes

We can't do gun parts like before but we could still need to find 3-5 gun parts to build a working guns(no crafting gun parts). The parts just wouldn't have a quality or effect the guns stats they would just be normal items used in recipes. We could go back to finding books to teach you how to assemble each gun.

 

That's all I have for now let me know what you think.

 

Die Well!

 

Things to think on….

Farming progression/system?

The process to raise your crafting quality Quest/Perk/Book?

Many more attributes now to make unique Professions.

Steel Block Quest/Perk/Book?

 

Sounding good Spider! I really hope you find a way to get progression through doing back. Looking forward to getting stuck back in! :-)

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Hello Spider, good to see you are back! How are you?

 

I haven't yet played A17, but I've been watching Games4Kickz play it. My only concern is the progression. At first A17 seemed challenging, but I soon realised it's not, it's very easy and gets boring really fast. The leveling when you kills zombies is too fast for my taste. Perks need a good overhaul. Item quality is now plain simple and its progression is just bad for me. I want to experience a good in-depth item and character progression. Item mods are nice though. I agree with weapon parts and looting.

 

I always loved your mod the most. I know you will make it more fun, challenging and immersive than vanilla but I would like you to focus more on the character and building/items progression because that's the A17's weakest spot.

 

P.S. It sucks that we can't loot zombies anymore. We should be having fun killing them now with the new melee system, but it's kinda the same after an hour of killing them, just using power attack for 2x times for every zombie...

 

Edit: I found this post

 

"No dying light is a zombie killing game. Call of duty Zombies is a zombie killing game. Dead island is a zombie killing game. Left 4 dead is a zombie killing game. Dead rising is a zombie killing game. OP was pointing out that 7DTD is so much more than that. The beauty of it isn't just killing Zeds, as is the case with others. It should be first and foremost a zombie SURVIVAL game, with crafting and building. It's unique and amazing. Some of us just want to make sure it's uniqueness isn't lost."

 

I want that just that, a true immersive unique challenging fun survival. Zombie killing would be great if it was like in Dying light, but...

Edited by xFORCERx (see edit history)

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@xFORCERx -

Im sad to say how right you are. I was looking forward for this alpha for almost 2 years and the more I play it the more I am starting to hate it. Its hard to even play it for a hour or two. Where before you had dozens of things you could do at any given time to improve your player and progress in the game. Now it is exactly like all those other game you posted where there is only one point to the whole game PEW..PEW..PEW..PEW kill zombies like we are all 10 years old. WTF FUN PIMPS. Its like they took their idea that they had tweaked and perfected over the last 5 years and just said F it and threw it out and said lets lets just be exactly like all our competitors.

 

RWG and Progression are not broken they are crap. Plain crap. I have faith in Magolie to get RWG looking good but as for the progression system its almost like they intentionally made it unable to be modded back to how it was. Unless someone can figure a way to fix this progression or someone can hack into the dll and undo the wasted crap they did over the last year it honestly looks like this game might become a $5 game in a bin at Walmart. Because the only players that like these games are casual gamers and 10 year old's.

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I'm glad your back too :)

I am looking forward to TS a17, Its going to be hard but that is good :)

I also really want the practice makes perfect way back.

The play style of the game now matches mine but I don't like the idea of killing zeds to learn about science as an example.

So I assume that the old system will be at some point modded back in by some one. I Might take a stab at it in a couple of months.

Also if you need small bits of work done that are similar to what I want to do for my mod maybe we could collaborate a bit and share some of the overall work load. Cheers

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Good conversation of game ideas on Steam I wanted to share so I'm reposting-

https://steamcommunity.com/groups/HardcoreSurvivalServer/discussions/1/3020122487783920354/?tscn=1543235062

 

Ya I hate the new Gun Perks. In what world does me studding something make my gun shoot more bullets? Or why on earth would anything i study or train in make the same bullet i shot 5 min ago do more damage this time i shoot it? It's just dumb.

 

What I want to do is make the stats back on weapons and make the mods/attachment have the bonus stats. Like you are saying yes.

 

As for vehicles as in A16 I don't see any reason why finding bikes, motorcycles and cars would be a problem in the zombie apocalypse. They would be everywhere, gas and keeping them repaired would be the problem. So bicycles will be scattered in garage loot and maybe laying around the map if I can. Motorcycles might be found in car workshops or parked in garages. As for cars I was thinking of making Car Keys a low chance drop in cars. If you found car keys in a car it would place as a 4x4. But you would still need gas. All these vehicles would only be found in world loot/map at a max quality level of 2. So early game repairing it would only be from looting repair kits and the only way to get better vehicle would be to craft one

 

Also progression talk-

Its not looking like “Working to improve” will be doable this alpha like it has been in the past. TFP have removed the code that allows it. So…

 

I was thinking of throwing the whole thing out. Instead of leveling and picking your player attributes as you play(where now you can kill a zombie and learn how to cook from the xp). Instead what if we picked our character before hand. Like a profession, and these professions would have all the stats baked in. Like Fitness instructor could run,walk faster, have slower stamina drain but need more food, but only have quality level 1 crafting. Then a engineer might have quality level 3 crafting and a lot of recipes unlocked but lose stamina faster, be more susceptible to illnesses and a Cop could have lv1 crafting but reload faster, hip shot better,melee better. And so on, you get the point.

 

But after that no more buying perks. We could have 3 quest set at different levels that when you completed them it would raise you crafting level one level. This way a player could only raise their quality crafting 3 levels the entire game so if you start with a “physical” character build you may only ever get to level 3 or 4 quality but you will crush with a given weapon and the “intelligent” character build would get to level 6 quality by endgame but would never be as good with weapons as the “physical” player.

 

One thing I will give A17 is there is a ton of new stats I can adjust for the player that I could not do in A16 so “Professions” could be very unique and distinctive. I also have the ability to keep buff on a player after death which allows me to control stats on a player the entire game and not just until you die. Why this is cool is now i could give specific buffs to a profession that the player could have on them the entire game.

 

**updated**

 

Just got a good idea in the shower...haha

I was thinking of what to do with the xp and leveling if we went with this. Then it came to me. How about you still get one point when you level but there is only one thing you can buy “Life Tree”(good name idk?). Everytime you put a point in here a random thing would happen based of what profession you are. Such as. Say your a Cop you click learn and you get +0.1 Reloadspeed added to your permanent player stats or the other side of the coin and if you haven't been hungry below 50% in the last week you get gout and have slowed movement speed and lowered weapon skills until you can cure it. The options of effects could be eminse pretty much when you click that buy perk I can make anything happen to you both good and bad. So the Life Tree would be like what happened as you gained experience since the last time you leveled. It could be good…”improved one of you unique profession stats” or could be bad just by chance ,”Developed arthritis in knee take pain pill to manage” or based off what you have been doing”If you been sick in the last week develop chest cold and lower stamina regen rest on bed for X time or find a doctor to treat you”. It could also trigger a quest or let you have an epiphany and learn a unknown recipe.The Life tree could also be Profession specific so different things would happen to different character builds

Edited by Spider (see edit history)

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I joined the steam group, but I'll write it here.

 

I agree on mostly every idea you posted so far. One thing I haven't read or maybe I misread is what happens if someone is playing solo or in group of 2 friends? This idea of yours could actually be great when I play with my 5 friends, meaning, everyone must specialize in something and keep making his character better in that field, meaning no one will be the same and we depend on him and vice versa. That same "depending" could be bad.

 

Professions should be fun and challenging by giving players freedom and choice, because that's the main issue players have right now with A17. Again, if you could somehow not lock players in just their field of profession but giving them the choice to be anything they want that would be the best I think.

 

So, TL;DR -

 

Your idea mixed with

 

- Professions making your character unique and immersive/fun/challenging

- Not locking perks and progressions just to the profession skill tree but giving freedom to other skill trees. (Improve faster and better on the perks linked with that profession, improve slower on other skill trees linked with other professions. Maybe even have small handicaps/penalties when they start learning different skill trees, that way players could learn everything while making them focus on what character they have chosen in the start. I think this is the main idea you should implement. I could describe it more if I am confusing.

 

As you stated, perks for improving fire guns damage/magazine should be scrapped, weapon mods should be used only. Melee weapons should be based on perks + weapon mods. A balance between them.

 

How you have spent the week idea is a nice one, I would like to hear more about it

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I put out a modlet that shows how melee weapon modifiers can change damage and perks, and TFP did a decent job showing the same on guns so that stuff should support your ideas.

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@xFORCERx -

The SP vs MP thing is a complicated matter. It is in my thoughts and will be taken into account when things are finalized. I have to do some work testing the functionality of quest and dialogue before I get into how all this will work. Stay tuned.

 

Im thinking, no buying perks with points gained from xp. The only buyable skill will be your "Progression Tree" (better name?). Now we can have some sort of perks I'm not against them as long as they make some logical since and not magic types like "your gun holds more ammo" , but we can award them with quest or found loot items instead of points gained from generic xp. Also most recipes I would like to put back in loot or quest BUT for the recipes of items we have learned don't work finding in loot like Forge, Iron Tools, Steel Tools. Those I would like to put in the Progression Tree so at a set level the player could be given some quest to learn those recipes.

 

Now I have talked about how crafting to improve an item is dead but I can still track a player doing things with tools or weapons and its even a little better than before because I can track every time you kill a zombie or break any block with a specific stated weapon/tool. What's this mean? It means we could still have leveling skills for mining and weapons and players could not cheese the system by banging the item on a wall all night because it will only count your zombie kills or block breaks with it. So having the action skills you selected when you chose your profession level is no problem.

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I agree, I also decided that it would be easier to just throw away all this crap.

 

So... You come back ? :)

Edited by n2n1 (see edit history)

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@n2n1-

 

Sup man, long time, yup I'm back as promised and ya it looks like I will just be deleting the whole progression file and start coding on a blank page lol..... no for real lol

 

 

O! and another thought

 

What do we think of the new stamina/hunger stat being connected? I'm not sure I like it. I could bring back a hunger stat and just use that as stamina tracker. Also Wellness! Do we want that type of thing again.

 

 

Hay question has anyone started to relies A17 removed way more features/items/mechanics from the game than TFP let on. They act like they gave us some new thing but don't tell us it takes the place of 3 old ones they deleted.....geez

Edited by Spider (see edit history)

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Ok I have been giving players picking their stats some thought. I like what we had in the past, using professions but I think I would like to give the player a little more control over their player build. Now I thought about dropping the professions and just setting up stats and giving the player a set number of choices. While this is doable it would make some of the other things I want to do much more complicated and maybe impossible. So like always I’ll do a little of both.

 

How does this sound. In A17 the player will get 1 choice of a profession trait, one choice of hobby trait and one choice of a fighting style trait.

 

-Professions could be thought of as what your character did as a career before the apocalypse.

The Profession choice would decide your starting recipes, gear and quest line. Professions could also include other player stats or special abilities.

 

-Hobbies could be thought of as what your character liked to do in their free time before the apocalypse.. The Hobby choice would give slight increase in player specific stats.

 

-Fighting style could be thought of as in a life or death struggle how your character would instinctively defend themselves. Fighting style could get a special move with a given weapon or further improve its giving skills.

 

With this system a player could more freely choose a play style that more fits them. You could be a Bare Knuckle fighting Chemist that played Paintball on the weekends or a Farmer that loved swinging his machete and tinkered in coding in his free time.

 

Also with A17 I want to make these choices not only have up sides but also down sides. So the fitness instructor might sprint his but off but his calorie intake would be high or the Doctor is more clumsy and make more noise than other players. Stuff like that. So instead of one Profession pick you would get 1 Profession, 1 Hobby and 1 Fighting Style pick

Here's what I have so far if you can think of others please post them.

 

Professions-

Medic

Construction Worker(Builder)

Drug Cook(Chemist)

Military

Craftsman(Crafter)

Thief(Scavenger)

Farmer

 

Hobbies-

hunting

gardening

cooking

drugs

gearhead

Fitness Junky

Ice Fishing

sunbathing

Arts and Crafts

Paintball

Baseball

Running

Gaming

Coding

 

Fighting Styles-

Archery

Handguns

Rifles

Heavy Weapons

Clubs

Blades

explosives

Traps

Unarmed

 

 

Thoughts? Additions?

Edited by Spider (see edit history)

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