Alternative suggestion for a "group permadeath"

[scapenz]

Seeing the focus on death penalties in the most recent experimental, I felt it was apt to put forward an idea I have had for a while but had difficulty trying to mod. It's basically this:

Your character is incapacitated instead of dying and requires use of a first aid kit by another player in order to be revived.
 

For the sake of simplicity this could just be a first aid kid, however in the mod I intended this to be an epi pen and defribrillator with an appropriate rarity/effectiveness/difficulty to craft for each. This idea is specifically intended for coop multiplayer, with the goal being the game is "over" when all players are incapacitated and noone is alive to recover them; hence "group permadeath". This forces players to make critical decisions regarding fight or flight and work cooperatively to recover downed teammates from overrun POIs.

 

Regardless of whether any Fun Pimp developers see this, i'd appreciate any input on how this might be achieved in a mod. Althought I succeeded in creating an effective "incapacitated" state, the issue I ran into was preventing critical damage from all sources. Setting up a trigger at 10% of health is fine, but if more than 10% damage is done per tick (like from a Zombie bear) the buff can't be added before the player is killed.

 

 

 

 

Edited September 23 by scapenz (see edit history)

[Colonel Hogan]

Great idea to add a far more strategic element.  Love it.

 

[theFlu]

Hmm. Doesn't sound like a bad mechanic, necessarily, but it kinda forces people to play in tight groups. Works fine for L4D and borderlands, but 7dtd is a little more spread out. If your base-tender is the only one alive, the rest of the group will be waiting afk while he gets his act together? Or would people just die in a minute anyway?

 

Also, if it's expensive - if you die before the team has made one, say, day 1 doggo, will you just wait? There's other games to be playing ...

 

As for implementing, you'd likely want to disable the normal death entirely (to avoid all kinds of surprises) and use it to trigger your disabled-state; but I wouldn't expect that to be easily modded.

[Brugas]

Permadeath and you then have to play as a zombie and hunt down players and friendly npcs, until you're killed and then it flips again... or reincarnate as an animal   You're the bear... or the rabbit...

 

[Ramethzer0]

I assume this thread was created by the Left4Dead crowd.

 

Even if there was a vote on this, I vote NO in anything related to homogenizing the base game even further.

Next thing people will be asking about is more immersive parkour, solar punk assets, and makeshift weapons that should never exist outside of the Sci-fi genre.

[scapenz]

Quote

 

I assume this thread was created by the Left4Dead crowd.

 

Even if there was a vote on this, I vote NO in anything related to homogenizing the base game even further.

Next thing people will be asking about is more immersive parkour, solar punk assets, and makeshift weapons that should never exist outside of the Sci-fi genre.

 

Well, you assume wrong. This idea was simply a suggestion for the option to exist as an addition to the death penalty options recently added; not a wider change to the base game. Had there been an easy way to achieve this with modding there wouldn't even be no need for this post, but since I ran into difficulty I thought it was worth bringing more eyes to it.  Hoping that either a competent modder or potentially even a developer could weigh in on how this might be achieved/implemented.

Edited September 24 by scapenz (see edit history)

[Ramethzer0]

2 hours ago, scapenz said:

Well, you assume wrong. This idea was simply a suggestion for the option to exist as an addition to the death penalty options recently added; not a wider change to the base game. Had there been an easy way to achieve this with modding there wouldn't even be no need for this post, but since I ran into difficulty I thought it was worth bringing more eyes to it.  Hoping that either a competent modder or potentially even a developer could weigh in on how this might be achieved/implemented.

 

Erm...  If you're looking to campaign for this as a mod addition, why are you posting it here instead of the modder's forum?

 

I'd still not vote for this at face value, because you're looking to add something that might be seen as a boon in a small setting in MP, what I see as a new way for PVPr's to exploit this system with duping methods.   If you can just pick people off the ground and bring them back from the brink, you're effectively giving PVP groups the ability to suck up turret ammo with not much consequence.    I think you need to re-consider the deeper challenges, and there's a lot to code into something like that, and you said this yourself.  I'm going to go out on limb here and play the devil to let you know that just because something sounds cool at a listen, doesn't mean its automatically a worthwhile investment.

Edited September 24 by Ramethzer0 (see edit history)

[scapenz]

On 9/24/2023 at 3:59 PM, Ramethzer0 said:

 

Erm...  If you're looking to campaign for this as a mod addition, why are you posting it here instead of the modder's forum?

 

I'd still not vote for this at face value, because you're looking to add something that might be seen as a boon in a small setting in MP, what I see as a new way for PVPr's to exploit this system with duping methods.   If you can just pick people off the ground and bring them back from the brink, you're effectively giving PVP groups the ability to suck up turret ammo with not much consequence.    I think you need to re-consider the deeper challenges, and there's a lot to code into something like that, and you said this yourself.  I'm going to go out on limb here and play the devil to let you know that just because something sounds cool at a listen, doesn't mean its automatically a worthwhile investment.

I appreciate your perspective, but at this point you're not making much sense to me. It was a coop suggestion, strictly not for PVP as mentioned in the original post and for the exactly the kind of scenario you describe. Also i'd caution you against making too many assumptions based on my post count on this forum; that is in no way a reflection of my experience playing 7D2D or in game development in general for that matter.

 

The developers adding new death penalty options and fostering ongoing mod support indicates they are open to the idea that the game shouldn't be played one way, but a base for groups of all tastes and skill levels to enjoy how they want. Of course in order to do that the options need to exist — bringing me back to one of my key points —  there are limited ways to intercept critical damage before death is triggered.

 

This thread was simply to request some help to achieve it or failing that bring attention to it as a consideration for the developers since they are clearly interested in making this aspect of the game more customizable going forward. This isn't really a case of whether you like or dislike the idea (no one is forcing you to play this way), moreso a request for assistance from the community generally. Based on your continued resistance, I gather you aren't able to help and that's totally fine.

Edited September 26 by scapenz (see edit history)

[binf_shinana]

特別なアイテムを他のプレイヤーが使わないと復活できない、というオプションは日本のマルチプレイサーバーで見たことがあります。

（仕様としては、死んだあとに動けなくなり、かつダメージや状態異常を無効化するバフを付与するものだと思われます）

死亡トラウマバフを上書きすることで実装できるはずですので、xmlファイルを読み書きできるお友達がいたら作ってもらってください。

冒頭のメッセージを読み間違えていました。
例えば、敵の攻撃を全て何かしらのバフを与えるものとし、実際のダメージはそのバフから与えるようにすれば、一撃で死亡する前に無敵状態にできるかもしれません。

 

(google translation)

I've seen an option on a Japanese multiplayer server where you can't revive unless a special item is used by another player.

(The specs seem to be that it will prevent you from moving after you die and give you a buff that negates damage and status abnormalities.)

It should be possible to implement it by overwriting the death trauma buff, so if you have a friend who can read and write xml files, please have them create one for you.
I misread the message at the beginning.
For example, if all enemy attacks give some kind of buff, and the actual damage comes from that buff, you might be able to become invincible before dying in one hit.

Edited September 26 by binf_shinana (see edit history)

[Roland]

In regards to this idea, I too would like to know what exactly happens to the incapacitated players? Do they just sit and wait? Are they watching the rest play in some kind of view format? Are they logged out and log in until the first aid kit is applied?

 

Could be fun but it could also be super boring if it takes a long time for a team mate to come get you especially if it means missing out on most of horde night. Not against it as an option for sure.

[Ramethzer0]

On 9/26/2023 at 4:05 AM, scapenz said:

I appreciate your perspective, but at this point you're not making much sense to me. It was a coop suggestion, strictly not for PVP as mentioned in the original post and for the exactly the kind of scenario you describe. Also i'd caution you against making too many assumptions based on my post count on this forum; that is in no way a reflection of my experience playing 7D2D or in game development in general for that matter.

 

The developers adding new death penalty options and fostering ongoing mod support indicates they are open to the idea that the game shouldn't be played one way, but a base for groups of all tastes and skill levels to enjoy how they want. Of course in order to do that the options need to exist — bringing me back to one of my key points —  there are limited ways to intercept critical damage before death is triggered.

 

This thread was simply to request some help to achieve it or failing that bring attention to it as a consideration for the developers since they are clearly interested in making this aspect of the game more customizable going forward. This isn't really a case of whether you like or dislike the idea (no one is forcing you to play this way), moreso a request for assistance from the community generally. Based on your continued resistance, I gather you aren't able to help and that's totally fine.

 

I just re-read my post twice wondering what you are even referring to, and you're putting a lot of words in my mouth while moving the goalposts and not fully owning your own.  My original post was mostly tongue in cheek.

 

I don't have enough energy to play this game with you, for real. lol

Edited September 29 by Ramethzer0 (see edit history)