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Feature for Save Sync is required!!!


Burialfaith

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Greetings,

 

I lost a 250h save game due to OS corruption.

 

Changing the default location of the save game from %appdata% would help. (I had 7D2D installed on another HDD (separate from the OS), but unfortunately it didn't help)...

 

I'd like to point out that old games like FF7 (on Steam) have automatic save sync across different devices through Square-Enix account/cloud server and if I'm correct, ES4 Oblivion uploads personal saves to the user's Steam cloud.

 

Any way to sync saves would be needed and would surely prevent frustration to other users.

 

Thanks in advance,

 

 

B

 

 

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38 minutes ago, JCrook1028 said:

You do realize you can manually back up your game save right? I do so after each play session so in the rare event of losing it I only lose one session.

 

That´s not an argument to not have save sync. We can do a lot manually and yet a lot is automated,. More than half the people propably have no clue how to even find the appdata folder. That´s a simple QoL update that hurts no one.

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One issue with save sync is the nature of this game in that it saves itself every few seconds. If save sync was a thing, when would it capture a particular save for the cloud? On log off? That would bring new problems like someone's save get's corrupted but they are still able to log into the game. They see they've started over at Day 1 with no skills and all their gear gone and so they log out and now the cloud has been overwritten with the corrupted data. Some might be aware enough to just hard close the game without logging off but most users wouldn't consider it and just log out.

 

So then why not have a manual button that the user can press to capture a save to the cloud or make a backup on their own hard drive? Because then that defeats the gameplay purpose of having the game save every few seconds so that survival decisions are final and can't be redone.  People can't hedge their bets and make a backup save before trying something tough. Sure, people could go into the files and make a backup and still save state cheat a quest or erase a death but it is too cumbersome to do veru often for the average player. Making it a convenient button press, though, would result in all sorts of abuse. Its not that I care what others do to cheat in their own game so much as it is a flaw in the design that makes it so that our decisions matter and can't be undone.

 

Its not a simple problem with a simple answer.

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@theFlu yeah, the size is a problem. Still it´s not an argument against something to say it can be done manually. But one solution would be to have the option to choose that you want to keep two save files. The newest one and the one before. As they are big, this shouldn´t be default but a choice. At least as long as there is a problem with corrupted saves. 

 

Or move the saves to a location that isn´t a hidden folder. Same for the mods and maps. As i doubt that MS will change that appdata is a hidden folder, it´s the game industry that needs to do something imo. And no, educating all people who game about hidden folders won´t work. Especially in a game with a mostly mature audience people don´t wanna mess around, they want to play without problems in their scarce free time.

Edited by pApA^LeGBa (see edit history)
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  • 4 weeks later...
Greetings,

After reading the posts from other users in this topic, I must say that: "I sure forgot the habit to backup my personal saves" (for having played much online games lately).

First, I think I need to re-state the issue: The save game is not located in "my documents" so resetting Windows OS files will delete the save game in case of OS corruption.

In my opinion, an easy solution to the current issue would be:

1) To maybe change the default save location

2) To warn the user (on 1st run on 7D2D or during its installation process) if he wants to use the default save location %appdata% folder or a specific one (for his save games)

3) Add a tip, among the 32 others displayed during the loading screen (when you open a save game or join an online server) to remind the player to backup it's saves regularly?

I hope that another solution... or a fix will be implanted to prevent losing save game when Windows OS gets corrupted (and can't be repaired).


B Edited by Burialfaith
must edit the removed content before posting it again (see edit history)
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1 hour ago, Burialfaith said:

Greetings,

After reading the posts from other users in this topic, I must say that: "I sure forgot the habit to backup my personal saves" (for having played much online games lately).

First, I think I need to re-state the issue: The save game is not located in "my documents" so resetting Windows OS files will delete the save game in case of OS corruption.

In my opinion, an easy solution to the current issue would be:

1) To maybe change the default save location

2) To warn the user (on 1st run on 7D2D or during its installation process) if he wants to use the default save location %appdata% folder or a specific one (for his save games)

3) Add a tip, among the 32 others displayed during the loading screen (when you open a save game or join an online server) to remind the player to backup it's saves regularly?

I hope that another solution... or a fix will be implanted to prevent losing save game when Windows OS gets corrupted (and can't be repaired).


B

 

Not using Windows so I may be wrong, but I would have thought that the typical windows user would backup everything under c:/user/<his name>/ if he had to repair his OS, not only My Documents. And that would include stuff like My Pictures, My Music as well as %appdata%.

 

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Greetings,

I use to manually backup save game on external HDD, but not quit often since that drives requires 120V (and being taken out of a box). In the very case where Windows OS get corrupted well... there's nothing to do. Roland even said on 8/17/2022 at 4:04 PM in this blog page: "it is a flaw in the design that makes it so that our decisions matter and can't be undone".

Also, on 8/17/2022 at 4:04 PM, Roland said:
"Its not a simple problem with a simple answer."

I must say that I disagree with that statement for the 3 reasons I suggested in my previous post. Plus, I made my very first script (which took longer for a non-programmer than if 7 Days to Die devs edited 7 Days to Die files through an update to apply one of the three options I just proposed) which shows how simple backing up a 7 Days to Die save game can be (which can help prevent losing save files, by making regular backup to a different internal drive, while waiting to backup to external drive).

I felt that backing up saved games should be an automated task; every PC user should not be forced to manually backup saved games nor to NOT have any automated backup features...". (Not a single PC user should ever have to lose his save games)!

Thus I made this script to ease backing up 7 Days to Die save games and am posting it here for 7 Days to Die players.


B

For totally new users to programming, I recommend using Windows PowerShell ISE (with admin rights) to edit the following script. Note: You might want to adjust the directories/folders below such as G:\SaveGameBackup\... and C:\Users\YourUserName\... to the one that fits the best your needs ex: D:\OtherLocation\ (and that reflects your Windows login username) and then save the script as .ps1 . Once the .ps1 is created, right click the .ps1 and select to run it with PowerShell.

Basically, just copy-paste the following text into a new "document"/script through PowerShell ISE (starting with the "E" letter of the first ECHO word until the "0" of "Exit 0" at the very bottom):
 

ECHO "##########################################################################"
ECHO "### Script to backup and restore 7 Days to Die save game files (v1.00) ###"
ECHO "##########################################################################"


#### Greetings, the main idea behind this script is to create a simple utility to backup 7D2D's save games files
#### to a different drive than the one where the OS is installed and that by the easiest way possible for the user.
#### This lead to a second useful function that the utility could have, such as the opposite function:
#### to "auto-restore" a desired save game backup to the game's original save game folder location.

#### The script mainly has three parts:
#### There is (1) an input section to chose from whether you want to "backup" or "restore" a save game.
#### Then, there is (2) a backup part or (3) a restore part (both options leading to closing the script).
#### It also has a few anti-failproof features.

#### Enjoy!

################################################################################


# (1) Offer the user whether he wants to backup or restore his save games

Start-Sleep -Seconds 5

$Choice = Read-Host "

Do you want to?
(1) Backup 7 Days to Die save games
(2) Restore a 7 Days to Die save game backup to the game's original save game folder location (%AppData%)

Type a number (1 or 2) then press Enter to continue
"

# (2) Proceed with backup function

if($Choice -eq 1)
{
if (-not(Test-Path -Path "G:\SaveGamesBackup\")) # First time checkup + Failproof
{
ECHO "
Creating Main Backup directory..."
mkdir G:\SaveGamesBackup\ > $null
Start-Sleep -Seconds 3
ECHO "
Successfully created G:\SaveGamesBackup\ folder!"
Start-Sleep -Seconds 4
}
if (-not(Test-Path -Path "G:\SaveGamesBackup\7DaysToDie\")) # Failproof
{
ECHO "
Creating 7 Days to Die backup folder..."
mkdir G:\SaveGamesBackup\7DaysToDie\ > $null
Start-Sleep -Seconds 4
ECHO "
Successfully created G:\SaveGamesBackup\7DaysToDie\ folder!"
Start-Sleep -Seconds 4
}
ECHO "
7 Days to Die Backup folder detected...
"
Start-Sleep -Seconds 4
ECHO "
Here's a list of previous backup folder(s) found:
"
Get-ChildItem -Path G:\SaveGamesBackup\7DaysToDie\ -name
ECHO ""
ECHO "(End of the list)."
ECHO ""
Pause
$Backupnumber = Read-Host -Prompt "
Type a new and unique name for this 7 Days to Die backup, then press Enter.
***(Only use letters, numbers and no space)." # Backup function starting here
if (Test-Path -Path "G:\SaveGamesBackup\7DaysToDie\$Backupnumber\") # Failproof
{
DO
{
ECHO "
You've entered the name of an existing folder."
Clear-Variable -name Backupnumber
Start-Sleep -Seconds 3
ECHO "
Here's a list of the backup folder(s) found:
"
Get-ChildItem -Path G:\SaveGamesBackup\7DaysToDie\ -name
ECHO ""
$Restorenumber = Read-Host "Type the EXACT name of the folder you want to restore from then press Enter"
} until (Test-Path -Path "G:\SaveGamesBackup\7DaysToDie\$Backupnumber\")
}
ECHO "
Creating new backup folder $Backupnumber for 7 Days to Die save games..." # Backup function continuing here
New-Item -Path "G:\SaveGamesBackup\7DaysToDie\" -Name "$Backupnumber" -ItemType "directory"
Start-Sleep -Seconds 5
ECHO "
Backing up 7 Days to Die save game files to $Backupnumber folder..."
Copy-Item -path "C:\Users\YourUserName\AppData\Roaming\7DaysToDie\*" -Destination "G:\SaveGamesBackup\7DaysToDie\$Backupnumber\" -Recurse
Start-Sleep -Seconds 10
ECHO "
Successfully backed up 7 Days to Die save game to external drive!"
Start-Sleep -Seconds 6
ECHO "
The Save game backup process has successfully completed."
Start-Sleep -Seconds 4
ECHO "
The backup utility will now quit... Please Wait."
Start-Sleep -Seconds 5
Clear-Variable -Name Choice
Clear-Variable -Name Backupnumber
exit 0
}

# (3) Proceed with restore function

if($Choice -eq 2)
{
if (-not(Test-Path -Path "G:\SaveGamesBackup\")) # Failproof
{
ECHO "No backup folder found. Please create a backup first then try to restore!"
ECHO "The backup utility will now quit... Please Wait."
Start-Sleep -Seconds 12
Clear-Variable -Name Choice
exit 0
}
if (-not(Test-Path -Path "G:\SaveGamesBackup\7DaysToDie\")) # Failproof
{
ECHO "No backup folder found. Please create a backup first then try to restore!"
ECHO "The backup utility will now quit... Please Wait."
Start-Sleep -Seconds 12
Clear-Variable -Name Choice
exit 0
}
ECHO "
Here's a list of the backup folder(s) found:
" # Restore function starting here
Get-ChildItem -Path G:\SaveGamesBackup\7DaysToDie\ -name
ECHO ""
ECHO ""
ECHO "(End of the list)."
ECHO ""
Pause
ECHO ""
$Restorenumber = Read-Host "Please type the exact name of the folder you want to restore the save game files from then press Enter"
if (-not(Test-Path -Path "G:\SaveGamesBackup\7DaysToDie\$Restorenumber\")) # Failproof
{
DO
{
ECHO "
You've entered an invalid folder name."
Clear-Variable -name Restorenumber
Start-Sleep -Seconds 3
ECHO "
Here's a list of the backup folder(s) found:
"
Get-ChildItem -Path G:\SaveGamesBackup\7DaysToDie\ -name
ECHO ""
$Restorenumber = Read-Host "Type the EXACT name of the folder you want to restore from then press Enter"
} until (Test-Path -Path "G:\SaveGamesBackup\7DaysToDie\$Restorenumber\")
}
ECHO "
Backup $Restorenumber successfully selected!" # Restore function continuing here
Start-Sleep -Seconds 3
ECHO "
Deleting 7 Days to Die Original save game folder located in %appdata%..."
Remove-item C:\Users\YourUserName\AppData\Roaming\7DaysToDie\ -r -fo
Start-Sleep -Seconds 6
ECHO "
Creating a new default folder located in %appdata% to hold 7 Days to Die save game files from Backup named $Restorenumber..."
mkdir C:\Users\YourUserName\AppData\Roaming\7DaysToDie\
Start-Sleep -Seconds 7
ECHO "
Restoring 7 Days to Die save game files..."
Copy-Item -path "G:\SaveGamesBackup\7DaysToDie\$Restorenumber\*" -Destination "C:\Users\YourUserName\AppData\Roaming\7DaysToDie\" -Recurse
Start-Sleep -Seconds 10
ECHO "
Sucessfully restored 7 Days to Die save games with the files from backup $Restorenumber."
Start-Sleep -Seconds 5
ECHO "
The Save game restore process has successfully completed."
Start-Sleep -Seconds 4
ECHO "
The 7 Days to Die restore utility will now quit... Please Wait."
Start-Sleep -Seconds 5
Clear-Variable -Name Choice
Clear-Variable -Name Restorenumber
exit 0
}
exit 0

 

Edited by Jugginator
corrected some few errors in the text (Jugginator-Wrapped this in a code block to make it easier) (see edit history)
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13 hours ago, Burialfaith said:

Roland even said on 8/17/2022 at 4:04 PM in this blog page: "it is a flaw in the design that makes it so that our decisions matter and can't be undone".

 

The potential flaw in the design that I was talking about was allowing a simple convenient way to backup a save file at any moment from within the game. It would defeat one of the game's primary designs of overwriting itself every few seconds in order to make player choices meaningful and permanent. As soon as there is a backup save button accessible within the game, that is the end of permanent consequences to choices and bad luck. Coming back from setbacks is a huge part of the game and as soon as you provide a do over then every mistake is a Mullagan.

 

I was not saying that the current situation is a design flaw. I do think redundancies to allow the player to reload a recent save in the rare case of a save file corruption is a good idea and I'm all for giving players a warning to make their own backups periodically. But that process needs to be done outside of the game. The player needs to log off and create the backup from outside of the game.

 

13 hours ago, Burialfaith said:

Also, on 8/17/2022 at 4:04 PM, Roland said:
"Its not a simple problem with a simple answer."

 

Again, I was here referring to the issue of protecting the permanency of decisions and not creating a do-over button. It isn't simple because there are probably many players that would want that button even if it was detrimental to the overall fun of making meaningful and irrevokable choices. If TFP makes a method that is under the control of the player then they have to be careful about how convenient they make the process.  If you feel that putting a warning or tip (either to make a manual backup or change the save location) in the loading screen is a good enough simple solution to the problem then I'm all for that.

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Greetings Roland,

Since the save game is not located in a folder than can survive to a Windows OS reset, (and that we are talking about a game where players can easily spend hundreds hours on), I think adding a tip to remind the players to backup save games regularly wouldn't hurt and even could help to reduce the likeliness of events happening where players are losing save game files due to "out-of-control" issue like OS corruption. ... (but then, if Gates could make an incorruptible OS, we wouldn't be here suggesting adding such tips in the loading menu).

Considering that "the nature of this game in that it saves itself every few seconds" to help "so that survival decisions are final and can't be redone", I sure understand that adding such a new tip in the loading menu could also increase the number of players having "unrealistic" character stats.

To resume what I think to be the issue:

We have to choose which of the two option is the most important: 1) would it be better to reduce the number of players losing 250h save games or 2) to prevent some players from having perfect death score by hacking through save restore? (I'm confused about what is considered hacking in 7 Days to Die. I mean you type "cm" or "dm" in console and it's not considered hack, but restoring a save game would be)?

My fourth suggestion to counter losing a 250h save game would be the following:

4) Maybe the save game file could have a unique HASH-like (containing time signature) that would be created when logging out of the game and be immediately submitted to a fictive 7D2D server. In WoW for example (when a user deletes a wrong item he owns, he can in that game ask for the GM to restore 1 of his deleted items (once per month I think)). Such a "limited restore service" for save games in this case could maybe be added to 7D2D. Thus, the fictive 7D2D server I'm suggesting could automatically check the 7D2D HASH from save file when a user loads his save game in order to play and the server would make sure that the HASH that the user has submitted is not the HASH from a previous save. Also, that server could by default automatically allow users to load/use only 1 outdated HASH save game per month. On top of it 2-factor authentication could be used when user would load an outdated save game past the fixed number monthly allowed (to increase the amount of automated allowed use of outdated save game). Ultimately, players could make regular copies of their save games with the script I posted above and the users wanting to hack their stats by restoring save games couldn't do so anymore (that easily).

If such a server to check hash of loaded and saved game would exist, then: the core concept of the game "survival decisions are final and can't be redone" would be respected; a new tip could be added to loading screen (without downside towards promoting the idea to replace saved games); if a player save game gets corrupted... the amount of outdated HASH monthly automatically allowed using (by the server) could just be increased; it would prevent abuse from restoring previous saved games; "So then why not have a manual button that the user can press to capture a save to the cloud" would become possible with the script I posted.

"Its not a simple problem with a simple answer." on 8/17/2022 at 4:04 PM is on the way to getting answered I believe.

Also, as other options, I guess that automatically transferring save games' file's location after a 7D2D update designed for such purpose could maybe be messy in some very rare case (in malware infested PC)? Which could be a reason to exclude that option to transfer existing save games to another location?

Thanks for taking the "pre-planned issue" seriously and in helping to prevent your customers from losing their hundreds of hours save games (on a game designed to reach such a high amount of gameplay hours),


B

P.S. The egg came before the chicken... (since fish existed before birds). Edited by Burialfaith (see edit history)
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I think the issue is someone has a less than optimal install of their OS. Original post said it was due to OS corruption. How is that the problem of TFP to solve?

 

someone could make a 

.bat file utility that automatically saves a copy of your save game on exit and keeps the last two exit saves before replacing them. That solves the problems with the least heavy lifting from all parties.

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@ Warmer

"How is that the problem of TFP to solve?"

In the first place, I report the issue (losing 250h save games), which I hope will lead to improvements.

"That solves the problems with the least heavy lifting from all parties".

I sure agree in a general manner with the benefits of such a type of deal. In this case, you mean to not help preventing (future) players from losing their save games? What's the point? Would money be more important than hundreds of hours cumulated of their customer? Why develop next feature in line instead of whatever anti-lose save game feature? On the other hand, since its an alpha game, I do hope I can post suggestions for improvements here.

"I think the issue is someone has a less than optimal install of their OS."

I would sure love to see more Steam games available for other OS than ONLY Windows; Ubuntu maybe, or UNIX-made for... (Maybe 10% of games on Steam are available on Mac)? I'm using win10 home UEFI with COMODO antivirus, (no script, adblock, https everywhere addons), sandboxed web-browser when needed, port stealthing and VPN. I'm open to hear how I can improve PC security and get to use Windows games... on other OS. I'm thinking of adding Deep Freeze to my PC gaming setup, but at that point, I'm wondering if such a Windows setup would be the best; if other OS (which can get also corrupted) with wine or VM could be better? ...

"someone could make a .bat file utility that automatically saves a copy of your save game on exit and keeps the last two exit saves before replacing them".

It was basically my idea in the first place, but with my limited programming skills I just managed to make the script above; it was named v1.00 not by chance.

B Edited by Burialfaith (see edit history)
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Every game with automatic saving and without manual saving has this problem. 
Very few games with automatic have a decent backup system from what I've seen, and rightfully so because there is a lot to consider. (if on main thread, saving must be from a snapshot of values that is slowly written x bytes per frame to avoid stutters... if saving and backups done on multiple threads, you have file write concurrency issues to deal with, checksums help, and something to verify data is not corrupt before that data gets moved to be a backup otherwise you are only making backups of corruption)

It is nice when a developer includes something, but really it cannot be expected of them. This is, after all, not an issue of the game. It's an issue of the environment in which games are played... namely computers... of which any software that saves data is under the mercy of.

 

Keep your system clean.

Keep your hardware maintained.

Install battery backup so you can safely shutdown while you await restoration of power.

Backup your files regularly.

 

That's really all you can do and sometimes it won't be enough. You might have backups, but most of the time you will be forced to revert back in time. All computer users accept this harsh reality, no single piece of software should feel obligated to remind users.

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Another thing to consider, and the primary reason that Steam Cloud support does not exist for this game, is the size of those saves.

 

Most games aren't saving a lot of data. They have a fixed world and not a whole lot of moving parts. Saves tend to be pretty small, maxing out at maybe 150MB in one file and that is all it is. 7 Days on the other had has all the world data, the map, the character data, enviroment data, ect.  The save for one of our games right now is 1.28GB, and contains several thousand files. And that is a recent change. In a19 that would have been 8-12GB, and in earlier versions closer to 30GB.  Steam Cloud has absolute limits on file sizes, and additional limits on total storage. Check your own account and see how much data you have there. Steam Cloud (steampowered.com)

 

Add to this that increasing the space for cloud storage is costly to developers. For the life of me I cannot find it now, but the default limit is like 100MB, upgradable in sections up to 1GB. Then the pricing information stopped. There was nothing above 1GB.

 

Edited by SylenThunder (see edit history)
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22 hours ago, warmer said:

I quoted the OP, so your issue is with them

The corruption of the OS is not necessarily due to a "bad installation" as you said. It could well have been caused by an abrupt loss of power on a perfect OS installation. Is that concept really that hard to understand?

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I wish think that the saving needs improved.  At the very least, if it tries to save and gets an error, it should not then try to overwrite backup files as well.  I had an unexpected issue with hard drive space going to 0 while playing the game due to unexpected background update unrelated to the game.  The game failed to save and then failed the save on the .bak file as well, causing loss of both files.

 

I'm not sure the best option if cloud saves aren't possible.  In reference to Roland questioning when you would make such a save, it would be on exit only as many cloud saves are done on steam and other platforms.  Local saves can be fine whenever the game wants, but cloud saves are backups of the play session.  You might lose hours if you played a long time at once, but you wouldn't lose an entire game.  Much better option.  But moot if the saves are too large for that.

 

I think maybe the game could give the option of a separate backup location where it would save 2 copies of your saves upon exiting the game (this can be optional for people who don't have space for it). This allows saving backups to a separate drive (or even to something like Google Drive or Microsoft One Drive if possible for people with those set up) so that even a complete loss of the hard drive with the normal save installed won't result in loss of the saves.  This could even be set to only keep one backup, but to only overwrite that backup after successfully loading the current save say that you know the save is good before overwriting the backup. Otherwise, two backups allow a user to see if a game fails to load before losing the latest backup (oldest backup would have been overwritten with corrupted save upon exiting the game, then you load the game and fail to open the save, so you or the game itself can load the other save without having lost the data on the save due to backing up the corrupted save.  Just one option.

 

Also, just having backups of all days it's good instead of only a few parts of the save.  I lost my drone (it is still on the map but invisible) and its inventory as well as my tool belt when my game failed to save a region properly when I had zero space.  At least the rest of the game is okay, but there is no way to get those back.

 

And yes, me running out of drive space isn't the game's problem.  I have a small SSD for boot and because the game takes forever to load and runs poorly on my HDD, I had to install it on the small SSD, which means very little free space and unexpected updates/downloads can be an issue for me.  Eventually, I'll update the computer to but for now I live with it.  Still, I have enough space on my HDD to save stuff if it wasn't saving to %appdata% it was at least backing up somewhere else.

Edited by Riamus (see edit history)
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For single player saves, not dedicated servers saves i wrote this batch file

Winrar is needed (it’s a free prog that compacts files)  https://www.win-rar.com/start.html?&L=0

Copy this into a text editor and save as “SP saves.bat” the "bat" part is important, dont save as a txt file, save as bat, so windows "knows" its a batch file, basically means its a "program to run"

 

@echo off

for /f "tokens=2 delims==" %%a in ('wmic OS Get localdatetime /value') do set "dt=%%a"
set "YY=%dt:~2,2%" & set "YYYY=%dt:~0,4%" & set "MM=%dt:~4,2%" & set "DD=%dt:~6,2%"
set "HH=%dt:~8,2%" & set "Min=%dt:~10,2%" & set "Sec=%dt:~12,2%"
set "datestamp=%YYYY%%MM%%DD%" & set "timestamp=%HH%%Min%%Sec%"
For /f "tokens=2-4 delims=/ " %%a in ("%DATE%") do (
    SET YYYY=%%c
    SET MM=%%a
    SET DD=%%b
)
For /f "tokens=1-4 delims=/:." %%a in ("%TIME%") do (
    SET HH24=%%a
    SET MI=%%b
    SET SS=%%c
    SET FF=%%d
)
SET savename="player save files"-%datestamp%-%HH24%%MI%%SS%
SET xfolder=%appdata%\7DaysToDie\saves
"C:\Program Files\WinRAR\rar.exe" a %savename% %xfolder% -inul

 


Run it before you start your game, and after if needed

It creates a backup file of single player saves, with date and time in the filename

It will save a backup in the same folder where you put the bat file

Edited by Data (see edit history)
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