radiators in Arizona

[enkephalin07]

I'm in a desert biome town, and dismantled 4 radiators in the first house I entered. Radiators in a desert home.

 

I was born in Arizona, I didn't even know what a radiator was until I visited San Francisco. I've seen radiators all over New England and Germany, and I've moved back to Arizona since, but still don't recall a single house that had radiators.

[Lenny Lettuce Lips]

Product of the 70's primarily, but also... It's a game, baby.  c h i l l a x

[Telric]

But.. you remember zombies? Last I checked Arizona don't have zombies either.

[zztong]

It may be that radiators in homes is kind of an old way of doing things and for most places it is a source of heat, not needed so much in warmer climates.

 

In modern buildings, you see radiators used in places like campuses. The University of Arizona, for instance, appears to cool many of its buildings by pumping chilled water through radiators. You may never see the radiators as the final step probably involves blowing cold air through the buildings.

 

In game terms, they're a source of brass, which I always find interesting. Those classic radiators I thought were cast iron and car radiators are aluminum, I think.

Edited July 2, 2022 by zztong (see edit history)

[Rotor]

2 hours ago, zztong said:

I

 

In game terms, they're a source of brass, which I always find interesting. Those classic radiators I thought were cast iron and car radiators are aluminum, I think.

 

The olden ones were brass.  It is a lost art, repairing those.  Now is plastic for top and bottom caps, alum or SSteel if you go high end.

 

Edit:  NVM i was talking cars.

Edited July 2, 2022 by Rotor (see edit history)

[enkephalin07]

 

10 hours ago, Telric said:

But.. you remember zombies? Last I checked Arizona don't have zombies either.

 

Other things I never saw in Arizona:

Snow

Cornfields

Green grass

[Roland]

It's the curse of being an expert of Arizona. Gun experts have a similar curse as do Romero experts as they play this game.  Just thank the devs they didn't include the sounds that radiators make. The fridge hum is plenty...

 

19 hours ago, enkephalin07 said:

Other things I never saw in Arizona:

Snow

 

Now your credibility is tarnished a bit. I'll just assume you're city folk...

Edited July 3, 2022 by Roland (see edit history)

[MichaelL.]

Yeah!   I grew up in the Wasteland (Wyoming), and the glowing, globular zombies that shoot radioactive puss on you aren't anything like I've ever experienced.....    What kind of trickery is TFP trying to pull on us!

 

 

[Evil_Geoff]

In Arizona,  snow can be found at altitude.  Meaning on mountains, if they are tall enough.  Because as altitude increases, temperature decreases.

But even doing TDY's courtesy of Uncle Sam, I never saw 100 degree F desert bordering 32 degree F snow biome.  Juuuust sayin'...

 

[Jinx_DG]

5 hours ago, Evil_Geoff said:

I never saw 100 degree F desert bordering 32 degree F snow biome.  Juuuust sayin'...

That's not how deserts work. The main types of deserts include hot and dry deserts, semi-arid deserts, coastal deserts, and cold deserts. You don't need altitude to see snow in a hot/dry desert, nor for it to be cold. Temperatures in hot deserts may reach 38°C (100°F) or more. At night the temperatures may fall to 0°C (32ºF) or less. As for a sand/snow border like in the game.... I'll see your "Juuuust sayin'..." and raise you a "Duuuude, seriously...." if you can show me a wasteland biome. Because I can show you snow in the Sahara Desert from this past winter. 

[NekoPawtato]

6 hours ago, Evil_Geoff said:

But even doing TDY's courtesy of Uncle Sam, I never saw 100 degree F desert bordering 32 degree F snow biome.  Juuuust sayin'...

 

From a gaming perspective though, I personally find it more exciting on RWG maps to have to explore the map in order to find the biome that I need.

If they made it so that snow would always be north and desert would always be south, or if finding biome X means I know that biome Y is on the opposite side of the map, then it becomes less of a challenge.

[Evil_Geoff]

On 7/4/2022 at 11:58 PM, Jinx_DG said:

That's not how deserts work. The main types of deserts include hot and dry deserts, semi-arid deserts, coastal deserts, and cold deserts. You don't need altitude to see snow in a hot/dry desert, nor for it to be cold. Temperatures in hot deserts may reach 38°C (100°F) or more. At night the temperatures may fall to 0°C (32ºF) or less. As for a sand/snow border like in the game.... I'll see your "Juuuust sayin'..." and raise you a "Duuuude, seriously...." if you can show me a wasteland biome. Because I can show you snow in the Sahara Desert from this past winter. 

I know how deserts work.  I also understand temperature gradients.  Which is why you can find snow capped mountains above otherwise arid terrain.  And a wasteland biome is what you will get after a few nukes or massive conventional bombardment (see pics of Dresden, Hiroshima, Nagasaki immediately post WW-II as examples).  Yes, nature will, over time, reclaim the wasteland, and human intervention can speed up recovery.  Even though radiation levels are still dangerously high in some areas, the Chernobyl Exclusion Zone is prime example of how nature will come back.  

So back to why snow and desert biomes should never border directly...

You are standing in a desert.  It's 12:00 noon.  The sun is shining, and you are sweltering because it is 100 degrees The saguaro and prickly pear don't give you any relief because that shade just isn't doing the job . 

So, you decide to walk 1 meter.  Just one.  That's all it takes.  It's 12:01.  You are standing in snow.  Ah, blessed relief from the heat.  It is below freezing.  It's foggy and /or snow is falling.  You change out of your duster and cowboy hat and tank top and shorts into a winter parka, a hoodie, knit cap and long pants.
Oh my, it's still cold.  To cold, because you are wet from the snow fall.

So....

At 12:02, you walk 1 meter back the way you came.  The sun is out.  You are in desert.  It's 100 degrees.  Strip out of all that cold weather gear and get back in your hot weather clothing.

Does.
Not.
Happen. 
Anywhere.

Except in this game.

It's jarring, and breaks the hell out of immersion for me.

As for "predictable" biome placement?  I don't care where the snow goes.  North, south, east, west, tops of mountains, diagonal swaths across a map...  As long as it isn't bordering a desert, it's all good in my world.

 

[BFT2020]

1 hour ago, Evil_Geoff said:

It's jarring, and breaks the hell out of immersion for me.

As for "predictable" biome placement?  I don't care where the snow goes.  North, south, east, west, tops of mountains, diagonal swaths across a map...  As long as it isn't bordering a desert, it's all good in my world.

 

 

Good news is that you can simply set snow biomes to 0% in A21 (based  on what we heard) so no more snow  next to deserts  😁

 

For me, I never had an issue with it as it is just a game for me, not my real life  😉

[zztong]

8 hours ago, Evil_Geoff said:

It's jarring, and breaks the hell out of immersion for me.

 

Agreed, but I'm going to try to make a case that it's a decent game compromise. Reasonable people can disagree, of course, and immersion is something that is personal. I understand, respect, and to some extent share your position, but I'm willing to let it go with a good-natured laugh when I see it.

 

Game maps are trying to represent an entire county in something like a 10 square kilometer space, yet Maricopa County AZ is 23890 square kilometers. Scale is the fundamental issue. You can't even fit a real life city on a 10 square km map. The small city in which I live is 25 square km of mostly residential space. Realism would mean one biome and part of one town given the map size constraints.

 

So I have to look at the map as multiple scales at once. There's a tactical scale of 1 block is 1 meter (horizontally) and a strategic scale that is much, much more compressed when we talk of biomes. In this way, the compromise gives you the opportunity to experience multiple biomes. In a fully realistic 10 km stretch of land I suspect you could maybe see one, or perhaps a transition from one to another.

 

I suspect that most players enjoy the compressed scale because it means they can travel between cities and biomes in a reasonable amount of player-time. It also means the game can let game-time pass much more quickly so that you can experience day-night cycles.

 

Yes, the biome lines lead to silliness like it being winter temperatures one block away from sweltering heat. But they also lead to different game experiences. It's a trade-off.

 

It is kind of neat to build a base that has parts in three different biomes. If you make it Forest-Winter-Desert, the hunting around the base has a wide variety of game.  If only we could mount animal heads on our base walls.

Edited July 30, 2022 by zztong (see edit history)

[canadianbluebeer]

not 1 meter no, but California desert, (palm springs area), 

100 in desert, drive up into mtns, 15 min up the road, put on warmies.

10 more min, and it's snow.

(nice little valley up there)

 

reverse on the way down. (there's a lookout area part way down/up that has a nice view of the desert, and

is the spot to swap gear, change AC/Heat etc)

 

Then again, we do have random periodic force fields show up, soo....

 

[Guppycur]

On 7/2/2022 at 6:54 AM, Telric said:

But.. you remember zombies? Last I checked Arizona don't have zombies either.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arizona_Sunshine#/media/File:Arizona_Sunshine.jpg

 

[Maharin]

On 7/2/2022 at 7:54 AM, Telric said:

But.. you remember zombies? Last I checked Arizona don't have zombies either.

 

Zombies are everywhere.  For realz.

[Rotor]

For Real.

 

CONOP 8888

[Maharin]

For reel?

[Fanatical_Meat]

Play on random world gen and problem solved. You won’t know where you are.

[Evil_Geoff]

On 7/30/2022 at 10:31 AM, canadianbluebeer said:

not 1 meter no, but California desert, (palm springs area), 

100 in desert, drive up into mtns, 15 min up the road, put on warmies.

10 more min, and it's snow.

(nice little valley up there)

 

reverse on the way down. (there's a lookout area part way down/up that has a nice view of the desert, and

is the spot to swap gear, change AC/Heat etc)

 

Then again, we do have random periodic force fields show up, soo....

 

Yup, I don't have any issues with snow at altitude.  I got stuck in snow driving up the access road going to the Mt. St. Helens observation point.  It was sunny driving to the mountain, and we were in falling snow about 3/4 of the way up. 

I rather liked the feature in KingGen of setting snow biome to high altitudes.

 

[Orclover]

On 7/2/2022 at 6:54 AM, Telric said:

But.. you remember zombies? Last I checked Arizona don't have zombies either.

...........Have you been to Phoenix?

Edited August 7, 2022 by Orclover (see edit history)

[Morloc]

On 7/2/2022 at 1:30 AM, Lenny Lettuce Lips said:

Product of the 70's primarily...

 

Huh?

 

 

-Arch Necromancer Morloc

[Maharin]

I'm a product of the 70's.  And several other decades, too.