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4 minutes ago, Matt115 said:

1. Well i know there was some types of exploits by using traps so i undestood by :

That spikepits were exploits like killng corridor. So this can be mistake

2 and 3 .  I would say "standard created long ago" but without " dropping of other games" i will use argument - logical thinking . Okay - weapons in 7dtd are rly underpowered. You have to stab with spear so many times,  shotguns are so... unsatiscating usually. I undestand why - "perks" probably to slow down progress but.. this create so stupid situation that you shot shotgun in zombie head and is often still alive - in older before perks it would be 1 shot kill except wight. But ok now about just traps, well - in 7dtd zombies are (except spider) reanimated corpses - fall from 5 m on spikes should be instant death why? high + well accleration combine with penetration. This one of the oldest traps in history and it was usefull because it was soo cheap and effective. Okay TFP done in that why because  zombie limit  so zombie have to have a lot of hp because if zombie were pretty weak ( i mean hp not dmg) could be too easy - i get that but i hope increase zombies number into 128 will be consider for 7DTD2 .

 

You argue with realism. Sorry, then we have to remove almost all building abilities from the player. It is unrealistic and in reality someone who could build pits to "bedrock" that easy would have no problem with zombies at all. Especially because zombies also don't exist. And so on.

 

Other games decide for limiting the player severely. Did it ever occur to you that you should be able to dig a hole anywhere in other zombie games because of realism? Most don't allow it (AFAIK) but strangely that doesn't seem to disturb your sense of reality.

 

Thats the problem with arguing with reality. In games there are so many limits and differences to reality that you can argue for almost anything "because of reality". And especially easy whenever fantasy-creatures like zombies are in a game. How many people have argued with properties zombies should have, when any layman could prove that that property of a zombie is impossible in the real world.

 

Yes, zombies are sturdier in 7D2D because there can only be a limited number at the same time. This means they need more than one bullet and also more than one fall to a spike trap to be killed, anything else would make the game a non-game. And there is no use discussing a what-if where that hardware-induced limit does not exist.

 

 

4 minutes ago, Matt115 said:

4. Perfect example how to use demolisher : demolisher fall into hole -- boom --> hole is safe for zombie  so this could be easy " neutralisation " of spikespits . Ok but what about "bigger spikepits" - well it think  spike dmg can be combined with fall dmg so --> let for example   1 m = 10 hp so dmg of  spike would be (fall dmg) x 3 piercing dmg.  So if  you have something like  ;    Lxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ( x spike, L earth) then after fall of demolisher it could be L.....xxx (...  dirt in pit)  so zombie could get 0x3 piercing dmg --> so without fall spiketrap is totaly useless. 

5. No they will not... or will be - well TFP decided to choose crawling zombie instead Behemot - if there would a lot of types of zombie: armored zombie, sapper suit zombie rock thrower zombie etc there would be a lot to do - so even if you are " a little bit" safe against onb begining of blood moon normal zombie still you have too deal with special ones

 

Absolute disaster. So that in this situation the player with a OP pit has some danger a player without pit would be overwhelmed because he would have to deal with all zombies that the OP pit would have killed as well. Making a pit a mandatory ingredient in any horde base.

 

And what about the early and mid-game where normal zombies dominate the mix? 

 

There is no substitute for balance when you want to give the player multiple ways to solve a situation.

 

4 minutes ago, Matt115 said:

6. You forget about one but vital problem --> iron is not endless so if you mine every close iron you have to go farer and farer to mine iron but this need time right? but tree you can  plant near you base ( i know you can scavenge cars etc but you have too go for them farer and farer too).

 

 

I was not arguing against wood traps, but they need even more space and time to replace than iron traps. At the moment with the difficulty in selecting and repairing spike traps they are not worth the trouble, if the bugs get ironed they might be useful again.

 

But iron is practically endless for any realistically played game. Have you ever mined all the iron in even just 500m circumference of your base? I bet not.

 

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Posted (edited)
37 minutes ago, meganoth said:

 

You argue with realism. Sorry, then we have to remove almost all building abilities from the player. It is unrealistic and in reality someone who could build pits to "bedrock" that easy would have no problem with zombies at all. Especially because zombies also don't exist. And so on.

 

Other games decide for limiting the player severely. Did it ever occur to you that you should be able to dig a hole anywhere in other zombie games because of realism? Most don't allow it (AFAIK) but strangely that doesn't seem to disturb your sense of reality.

 

Thats the problem with arguing with reality. In games there are so many limits and differences to reality that you can argue for almost anything "because of reality". And especially easy whenever fantasy-creatures like zombies are in a game. How many people have argued with properties zombies should have, when any layman could prove that that property of a zombie is impossible in the real world.

 

Yes, zombies are sturdier in 7D2D because there can only be a limited number at the same time. This means they need more than one bullet and also more than one fall to a spike trap to be killed, anything else would make the game a non-game. And there is no use discussing a what-if where that hardware-induced limit does not exist.

 

 

 

Absolute disaster. So that in this situation the player with a OP pit has some danger a player without pit would be overwhelmed because he would have to deal with all zombies that the OP pit would have killed as well. Making a pit a mandatory ingredient in any horde base.

 

And what about the early and mid-game where normal zombies dominate the mix? 

 

There is no substitute for balance when you want to give the player multiple ways to solve a situation.

 

 

I was not arguing against wood traps, but they need even more space and time to replace than iron traps. At the moment with the difficulty in selecting and repairing spike traps they are not worth the trouble, if the bugs get ironed they might be useful again.

 

But iron is practically endless for any realistically played game. Have you ever mined all the iron in even just 500m circumference of your base? I bet not.

 

1. You don't want to example for diffrent games so this is only option. Btw fun fact... zombie exist but only zombie ants The Zombie Fungus Takes Over Ants’ Bodies to Control Their Minds - The Atlantic . Well they are not typical "bitter" but still well interesting . 

Well: but there is universal tropes - shotgun is op on long range, fire do a lot of damage against flesh,  moving traps ( like pole with spikes) are not insta death while  spikes in floor yes and red barrels exploding. 

Well MS Survival , orc must die are good example that allowe you be AFK ( except set a trap)

Yep, but nobody says that topic must  consider only actual 7dtd. So studier zombies can be "topic" for future right?

 

What about early and mid? this same things -   more holes because you have better tools right? And honestly about early game - it think "early" weak variants of zombie would be pretty good. 

 

250 m yep but 500 nope. It was A16 or A 17. Well as i said upsters --> just add more spikes. that's is good enough i mean 300 - 400 spikes

 

Btw. Now... i know it's too late to change 7dtd so i'm writing more in spinoff/sequel context. Why?  Because.... what more left to do?

Edited by Matt115 (see edit history)
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9 hours ago, Sal said:

The fact that you seriously don't see the issue AND contradiction within your statement here is mind-boggling.

 

First,  you say the game the game "offers a struggle to everyone", but then go on to say that your an experienced player and that YOU yourself limit yourself to certain guidelines.  More than once in this thread.

 

What's funny here is that you bolded my entire statement but then parsed only the first half and then claimed I made a contradiction. So here is my full statement:

"7 Days to Die does offer a struggle to everyone who hasn't optimized it out of their game by rushing"

 

The qualifier in my statement is that the struggle is present for those that don't erase it by choice. I never stated that the game offers a struggle to everyone period. That was simply you creating a strategic cutoff in the middle of my sentence. I'm pretty sure what you did is obvious to anyone following the conversation...

 

My further statements about limiting myself by choice are perfectly in line with this full statement.

 

9 hours ago, Sal said:

That alone is a problem.

 

Sure, the game itself offers a lot of different paths but it only promotes the player to take a few of them.

 

I agree it is a problem for survival game play and as I've said a set of rules to enforce survival gameplay would not bother me. Until those rules are in place officially I will continue to self-limit so that I can have a survival game experience. It works. I'm having fun and playing. I guess just doing the same things that bring misery over and over and coming here to complain about it is another choice but not one I subscribe to. I like to do what works.

 

9 hours ago, Sal said:

@meganoth You should tell this to Roland.  Because he runs arounds here like the gatekeeper himself whenever anyone says ANYTHING remotely negative about the game.

 

I just offer a different perspective. I'm not gatekeeping your gameplay. By all means keep playing the game in a manner that destroys your fun factor. It's your choice. I've already said I'm all for a change personally. But I also think it needs to be known for full disclosure that changes to the game that add specific rules, by their nature, reduce the sandboxiness of the game. The proof in that pudding is the recent announcement about crafting magazines. How you learn to craft will be defined by a new set of rules in A21 which will change how players can play the game and force looting to a higher degree than now. Those who feel that the rule crimps their sandbox freedom are worried and upset about the change. 

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Matt115 said:

1. You don't want to example for diffrent games so this is only option. Btw fun fact... zombie exist but only zombie ants The Zombie Fungus Takes Over Ants’ Bodies to Control Their Minds - The Atlantic . Well they are not typical "bitter" but still well interesting . 

Well: but there is universal tropes - shotgun is op on long range, fire do a lot of damage against flesh,  moving traps ( like pole with spikes) are not insta death while  spikes in floor yes and red barrels exploding. 

Well MS Survival , orc must die are good example that allowe you be AFK ( except set a trap)

Yep, but nobody says that topic must  consider only actual 7dtd. So studier zombies can be "topic" for future right?

 

You'll have to find someone else to talk about 7d2d 2. I have no interest in talking about it.

 

5 hours ago, Matt115 said:

 

What about early and mid? this same things -   more holes because you have better tools right? And honestly about early game - it think "early" weak variants of zombie would be pretty good. 

 

Learn to quote. I don't know what you are talking about here

 

5 hours ago, Matt115 said:

 

250 m yep but 500 nope. It was A16 or A 17. Well as i said upsters --> just add more spikes. that's is good enough i mean 300 - 400 spikes

 

Nothing wrong with hundreds of wood spikes.

 

5 hours ago, Matt115 said:

 

Btw. Now... i know it's too late to change 7dtd so i'm writing more in spinoff/sequel context. Why?  Because.... what more left to do?

 

See anyone else do that? I don't.

Edited by meganoth (see edit history)
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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, meganoth said:

 

 

 

Learn to quote. I don't know what you are talking about here

 

 

About this one 

5 hours ago, meganoth said:

 

 

And what about the early and mid-game where normal zombies dominate the mix? 

 

 

6 minutes ago, meganoth said:

 

You'll have to find someone else to talk about 7d2d 2. I have no interest in talking about it.

 

See anyone else do it? I don't.

Because you like how things looks right now.

Well... because honestly i don't know why. Maybe they  still  hope that TFP will change their mind about LBD or will decide to make 7dtd harder. I just know it's too late so only option is to talk about future. Because do you see realistic option to increase zombie number or add 10 more zombie variants?

I don't. And i lose hope for DLC. Because they don't confirmed them for so long time

Edited by Matt115 (see edit history)
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24 minutes ago, Matt115 said:

About this one 

 

Ah okay. My point was that in early game when only weak zombies run around OP (== overpowered) traps would make the game boring even if the game had armored zombies or behemoths, because those advanced zombies would not be seen in the early or even mid-game.

 

So your answer "And honestly about early game - it think "early" weak variants of zombie would be pretty good." does not make sense to me. They would be even easier canon fodder for the overpowered pits. They would not be a solution that would make the game dangerous again.

 

24 minutes ago, Matt115 said:

 

Because you like how things looks right now.

 

No, even easier. Because we don't know anything about 7D2D 2 to talk about it.

 

And I would suggest to forget about your pipe dream of influencing the developers about the next game just because you are mass posting your own idea. The only thing you will accomplish will be to land on ignore lists.

 

24 minutes ago, Matt115 said:

Well... because honestly i don't know why. Maybe they  still  hope that TFP will change their mind about LBD or will decide to make 7dtd harder. I just know it's too late so only option is to talk about future. Because do you see realistic option to increase zombie number or add 10 more zombie variants?

I don't. And i lose hope for DLC. Because they don't confirmed them for so long time

 

I do see a realistic chance to convince TFP to add an option for A21 or change the loot abundance option to include the traders quest rewards or anything else to better increase difficulty.

But the important thing is, what they can accomplish is to make TFP aware of a problem and think about solutions. What they can't accomplish is to make TFP just take the solution they suggest.

 

A recently successful example of a convince: Operators of open servers convinced them that they need to do something about their network performance and security. So they hired a network guy to overhaul the code.

 

 

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On 5/16/2022 at 3:38 AM, Novamourne said:

"Smart" & "Gimmick" zombies -
You are losing the arms race and have been since you decided to enter it. Please give up. Players will always outsmart your AI. No that's not a challenge. It's the reason we're the dominate species on Earth. We use tools well. We outsmart things. We outlast them. Please stop trying to make zombies smarter than us. Their danger is in their unrelenting tides and sheer numbers. Not through dynamite strapped on their chest, slapping a wood wall twice and breaking it, or pathing cleverly to you.

Gore blocks were an infinitely better zombie threat than anything you've put in the game thus far and you removed them without trying to iterate on it at all. Get rid of the stupid demo zombies. Bring back gore blocks. Stop trying to make "counters" to player strategy and get back to making zombies like the irradiated or the army zombie whose head is protected, etc.

100% agree on the Demolishers. The game became less about zombies and more about weird science experiments run amuck. Hmm, sounds like another game...cough...coughkillingfloorcough...cough. Anyways, the demo's are in my opinion a bad addition to the game. All they had to do was add two zombies, one that went boom doing massive block damage but with a low health bar so you at least had a chance of stopping him and another zombie that was slow and lumbering with massive armor and massive health but low damage output so that their method of defeating your defenses was to tank up and absorb your ammunition while all the zombies attempted to beat their way in. That is a much better way of balancing it. Of course, I'm of the opinion that the Fun Pimps are a bit lazy and just went with a single zombie that does both roles at once.

 

The reason why the gore blocks were removed was due to performance issues. You killed zombies and their corpses turned into little death traps, something that made combat interesting though kinda irrelevant if you were inside a base. The issue was they were yet more items that your cpu had to keep track of. With how the game already was and where it was going I think it's ok that they removed them.

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19 hours ago, meganoth said:

The contradiction is maybe solved if we remember that the game is supposed to be a challenge for new players, not veterans. We veterans are using the game in "unintented" ways just like people on 9+ player servers and builders playing a single world continually for hundreds of hours.

 

It surely isn't that TFP doesn't like veteran players to play the game, but all those players are in the second row.

 

 

I don't necessarily disagree with this, but don't you see the problem here?  They're making the game easier for newer players while also (seemingly) forgetting about us players who have been playing the game years instead of trying to find a balance between both. I mean, who hell cares if the sticks, stones, and feathers are now highlighted in the tutorial. We've been playing the game for years without it.....we know how to find them. 

 

My point is, it seems most of the criticism is coming from vets who have spent hours of time on the game since damn near it's inception (~10 years ago) and it feels like we're the ones being left out.  And let's not sugarcoat it for what it is. It's money. Future money. That's it and that's all.

 

I don't know. Maybe it's just me, but if a million people supported my project for an entire decade then I would do something to show a bit of gratitude after 9 years instead of only trying to cater to newcomers just to make a buck.

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, meganoth said:

 

Ah okay. My point was that in early game when only weak zombies run around OP (== overpowered) traps would make the game boring even if the game had armored zombies or behemoths, because those advanced zombies would not be seen in the early or even mid-game.

 

So your answer "And honestly about early game - it think "early" weak variants of zombie would be pretty good." does not make sense to me. They would be even easier canon fodder for the overpowered pits. They would not be a solution that would make the game dangerous again.

 

 

 

1. I forget to mention sorry.  wood spikes would be 1 use only - if one zombie fall into this spike- spike is broken so if you are lucky enough - 3X3 pit hole mean max 9 zombie will be killed.  So yes it would be but only on begining of the blood moon +  in normal day. And how much wood would be need for 1 spike? Idk maybe 20?

2. Okay so let's call this variant Rotten. You can one hit kill while using primitive bow with stone arrow if you have 2 points in archery. so... Your job would be kill them before they fall to pit because it would be  waste of resources. So after time normal zombie will be cannon folderso you will trying to kill them to "let" more powerfull zombie fall into the pit

 

10 hours ago, meganoth said:

 

 

 

No, even easier. Because we don't know anything about 7D2D 2 to talk about it.

 

And I would suggest to forget about your pipe dream of influencing the developers about the next game just because you are mass posting your own idea. The only thing you will accomplish will be to land on ignore lists.

 

 

 

Fine. Well i think we will have to wait +- 10 years for that

 

10 hours ago, meganoth said:

 

 

 

I do see a realistic chance to convince TFP to add an option for A21 or change the loot abundance option to include the traders quest rewards or anything else to better increase difficulty.

But the important thing is, what they can accomplish is to make TFP aware of a problem and think about solutions. What they can't accomplish is to make TFP just take the solution they suggest.

 

A recently successful example of a convince: Operators of open servers convinced them that they need to do something about their network performance and security. So they hired a network guy to overhaul the code.

 

 

 

"A recently successful example of a convince: Operators of open servers convinced them that they need to do something about their network performance and security. So they hired a network guy to overhaul the code."

This is fixing bugs not add content. Well even older games get fixing bugs. And rebalance is... hm fixing bugs too. But add more zombie types, T6 etc. Well rebalance can change game a lot that's true but this is complicated... Cod would be good example. Some zombie maps are hard because zombie types advance design etc while Vanguard zombie mode was hard because weapons were soo much underpowered - so while fighting with Krasny soldat was fun in gorod krovi that put few magasines into single normal zombie in vanguard was boring. So i hope bandits will be good enemies because they will have good stuff and accuracy not because they will take 2 AK magasines into chest without dying. Well for me 7dtd is almost finished - just add water overhoul, bandits and that's all what is neccesary - I know about LBL  but... if redesing eveything over and over ( armors for example) production will be eternal xd. Well rest things like -new zombies , vehicles etc. probably would be added as DLC = more cash for them and people will end complaing about eternal Alpha .

Edited by Matt115 (see edit history)
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2 hours ago, Sal said:

 

I don't necessarily disagree with this, but don't you see the problem here?  They're making the game easier for newer players while also (seemingly) forgetting about us players who have been playing the game years instead of trying to find a balance between both. I mean, who hell cares if the sticks, stones, and feathers are now highlighted in the tutorial. We've been playing the game for years without it.....we know how to find them. 

 

My point is, it seems most of the criticism is coming from vets who have spent hours of time on the game since damn near it's inception (~10 years ago) and it feels like we're the ones being left out.  And let's not sugarcoat it for what it is. It's money. Future money. That's it and that's all.

 

I don't know. Maybe it's just me, but if a million people supported my project for an entire decade then I would do something to show a bit of gratitude after 9 years instead of only trying to cater to newcomers just to make a buck.

No saying you are wrong or right, just wanted to point out this a very naive view in today's world. 

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2 hours ago, Sal said:

 

I don't necessarily disagree with this, but don't you see the problem here?  They're making the game easier for newer players while also (seemingly) forgetting about us players who have been playing the game years instead of trying to find a balance between both. I mean, who hell cares if the sticks, stones, and feathers are now highlighted in the tutorial. We've been playing the game for years without it.....we know how to find them. 

 

Why do you care about what the tutorial highlights at all? If this is "forgetting about veterans" then those veterans deserve that measure for being selfish elitists. A tutorial should be so simple to follow that the worst imaginable player can follow it, and I can imagine players who would need that clue bat. For veterans it is an inconsequential thing that is done in 30 seconds so you can get the 4 perk points or ignore it completely for ... some more initial difficulty.

 

The highlighting of vehicles and turrets is maybe a simplification but without that the difficulty is "fake" difficulty. The difficulty to find your bike among 4 identical ones in co-op multiplayer is such a difficulty I don't care much about. The difficulty finding your turret after you left it somewhere is somewhat "fake" as well.

 

The marking of quest buildings, yes, I wish they would make a system where you really would need to find the building. I hope you really thought about that example when you mentioned highlighting.

 

2 hours ago, Sal said:

 

My point is, it seems most of the criticism is coming from vets who have spent hours of time on the game since damn near it's inception (~10 years ago) and it feels like we're the ones being left out.  And let's not sugarcoat it for what it is. It's money. Future money. That's it and that's all.

 

Have you forgotten that you got HOURS of playtime out of it with a fresh game with new gimmicks and features (but also new bugs) every year, just like a service game but without paying anything at all? Sure, some players also pay back with bug reports or server operation or recommending the game. But players of a service game do that as well and still have to pay for it.

 

And you hint at their moneygrabbingness (which surely exists, otherwise why work at all?) while you just payed a small sum once for years and years of playing this game. Hows that for money-pinching, have you bought a 7D2D cup each year? 😉

 

I'm not suggesting to buy a cup now, seriously, but the deal we got is a good one even if the game eventually gets stale on us. TFP didn't promise perpetual happiness for 20$ and that we got a few YEARS out of one game is seldom and unplanable.

 

2 hours ago, Sal said:

 

I don't know. Maybe it's just me, but if a million people supported my project for an entire decade then I would do something to show a bit of gratitude after 9 years instead of only trying to cater to newcomers just to make a buck.

 

How about showing some gratitude for 9 years of a game held fresh by updates. Make no mistake, if they just had made a beta after the alpha you consider best and released that then the chance that you would still play this game at all would be pretty low. People usually don't want to play the same stuff in an endless loop, they change from novice to veteran to former player.

 

Me personally I think the deal between TFP and you is pretty even, but only if you convinced 10 of your friends to join the game. 😉

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Posted (edited)
19 hours ago, Matt115 said:

shotguns are so... unsatiscating usually. I undestand why - "perks" probably to slow down progress but.. this create so stupid situation that you shot shotgun in zombie head and is often still alive - in older before perks it would be 1 shot kill except wight.

 

That's less about perks and more about mods.  Unless you have a choke AND a retracting stock or laser sight on your shotgun I find aiming at the high chest, so the zombie's head is inside your scatter zone but there's fairly little empty space where pellets can miss completely, works best.  With no mods at all, just aim centre mass.

 

Going for a full headshot, where you aim at the centre of the head, only works reliably once you've tighted the shotgun spread significantly.  Human perception is quite bad at recognising just how big, relatively, several small shapes are compared to one big shape.  That means you tend to think 'almost all my pellets are going to hit' when actually 50% or more just miss if you try and headshot when you haven't tightened the spread enough.  The total areas of the 'miss zones' are actually as big or bigger than the zombie's head itself.

 

Perks do help, but actually run and gun probably beats out boomstick until you can reliably headshot, because it tightens up your spread which boomstick does not do.

 

Oh there's also confirmation bias of course.  If you try and headshot ten zombies in a row, even with very good spread minimisation, you're going to get one time the zombie does a Pulp Fiction on you and all the pellets hit empty air.  That shot sticks in your memory a lot more vividly than the other nine times where you blow a head off.

Edited by Uncle Al (see edit history)
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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Matt115 said:

1. I forget to mention sorry.  wood spikes would be 1 use only - if one zombie fall into this spike- spike is broken so if you are lucky enough - 3X3 pit hole mean max 9 zombie will be killed.  So yes it would be but only on begining of the blood moon +  in normal day. And how much wood would be need for 1 spike? Idk maybe 20?

2. Okay so let's call this variant Rotten. You can one hit kill while using primitive bow with stone arrow if you have 2 points in archery. so... Your job would be kill them before they fall to pit because it would be  waste of resources. So after time normal zombie will be cannon folderso you will trying to kill them to "let" more powerfull zombie fall into the pit

 

Fine. Well i think we will have to wait +- 10 years for that

 

 

"A recently successful example of a convince: Operators of open servers convinced them that they need to do something about their network performance and security. So they hired a network guy to overhaul the code."

This is fixing bugs not add content.

 

Wrong. If TFP wants to fix performance and security this needs an overhaul of the network code. In laymans terms, an unencrypted connection and a buffer overflow are both examples of security problems, but only the second example is a bug. 

 

It is an example of TFP (probably) listening to players but also an example of them analyzing and then going for a solution they select.

 

And I would say from experience that seems quite typical. The exponential increase and trivial gameplay in farming was criticised by players for some time as well and either they recognised it themselves already or listened to the players, but they did not follow the suggestions of the players. They invent their own solution. And there are more examples like this.

 

 

4 hours ago, Matt115 said:

Well even older games get fixing bugs. And rebalance is... hm fixing bugs too. But add more zombie types, T6 etc.

 

You were asking if THEY have a chance. You were not asking if YOU have a chance.

 

You want 7d2d to be a completely different game made by developers who probably should have a different taste in games. And the probability of that has more zeros than you getting hit by lightning on the day you win the lottery.

 

4 hours ago, Matt115 said:

 

 

Well rebalance can change game a lot that's true but this is complicated... Cod would be good example.

 

This is the point where I stop reading 😄

 

4 hours ago, Matt115 said:

 

 

Some zombie maps are hard because zombie types advance design etc while Vanguard zombie mode was hard because weapons were soo much underpowered - so while fighting with Krasny soldat was fun in gorod krovi that put few magasines into single normal zombie in vanguard was boring. So i hope bandits will be good enemies because they will have good stuff and accuracy not because they will take 2 AK magasines into chest without dying. Well for me 7dtd is almost finished - just add water overhoul, bandits and that's all what is neccesary - I know about LBL  but... if redesing eveything over and over ( armors for example) production will be eternal xd. Well rest things like -new zombies , vehicles etc. probably would be added as DLC = more cash for them and people will end complaing about eternal Alpha .

 

Edited by meganoth (see edit history)
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22 hours ago, Matt115 said:

shotguns are so... unsatiscating usually. I undestand why - "perks" probably to slow down progress but.. this create so stupid situation that you shot shotgun in zombie head and is often still alive - in older before perks it would be 1 shot kill except wight.

 

If you are trying to potentially take out a zombie with one shot to the head, you want to use slugs instead of buckshot shells.  Buckshot is great for spreading the damage around, especially if you got the zombies bunched up and taking a lot of AOE damage from traps and such.  Slugs are for when you want to drop them quickly.  A Q6 pump action shotgun with max loaded mods will take down most zombies with one shot to the head (regular and ferals - radiated and ferals of the big boys are a bit tougher - also assuming difficulty is based on 1:1 damage which is what they balance the game to)).

 

Also @Uncle Alhad good points about properly aiming with the shotgun.

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, BFT2020 said:

 

If you are trying to potentially take out a zombie with one shot to the head, you want to use slugs instead of buckshot shells.  Buckshot is great for spreading the damage around, especially if you got the zombies bunched up and taking a lot of AOE damage from traps and such.  Slugs are for when you want to drop them quickly.  A Q6 pump action shotgun with max loaded mods will take down most zombies with one shot to the head (regular and ferals - radiated and ferals of the big boys are a bit tougher - also assuming difficulty is based on 1:1 damage which is what they balance the game to)).

 

Also @Uncle Alhad good points about properly aiming with the shotgun.

 

A friend of mine is a big fan of shotguns for survivability. He doesn't care about the damage, he cares that the zombies are stopped for a short time while he can run away. And my friend often has the fewest deaths of our group so there might be some truth in that.

 

Edited by meganoth (see edit history)
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Before discussion moves along too far, I just want to suggest that perhaps rushing to optimize your gameplay can also be the path to enjoying this game. This rush to survive is what makes the first days of the game so amazing. I don't think it should be frowned upon. As a new player, and from the game's title, you know right from the start that you are fighting against the clock. As a new player, you feel that sense of accomplishment when you have managed your time successfully and have survived the first blood moon. You have enjoyed it so much, that you are willing to repeat this multiple times and improve upon it each time in preparation for the next one.
 
This urgency due to some impending doom is uncommon in survival games and has contributed greatly towards 7 Days to Die being one of the best survival games of all time. Let's not be too hasty to remove this quality from the game. My point is the game would do better to focus on maintaining the challenge and struggle even if a player attempts to optimize their gameplay as opposed to trying to persuade players that they shouldn't do it at all. 

 

For a game with so many systems that incorporate randonmess, it is surprising that the randonmess isn't enough on its own to throw a wrench in the works for players who attempt to optimize. It used to be enough. To be a broken record, I think putting so much importance on the traders has in a sense thrown all your eggs into one basket and has nullified everything that the randomness in all those systems were trying to accomplish. 

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3 hours ago, meganoth said:

 

Wrong. If TFP wants to fix performance and security this needs an overhaul of the network code. In laymans terms, an unencrypted connection and a buffer overflow are both examples of security problems, but only the second example is a bug. 

 

 

Secruity etc. is technical part right?

3 hours ago, meganoth said:

 

 

 

You were asking if THEY have a chance. You were not asking if YOU have a chance.

 

You want 7d2d to be a completely different game made by developers who probably should have a different taste in games. And the probability of that has more zeros than you getting hit by lightning on the day you win the lottery.

 

 

Well i saw few at least people asking for more T5 or even T6 POI, more zombie types so. This woudn't be completely diffrent game right?

3 hours ago, BFT2020 said:

 

If you are trying to potentially take out a zombie with one shot to the head, you want to use slugs instead of buckshot shells.  Buckshot is great for spreading the damage around, especially if you got the zombies bunched up and taking a lot of AOE damage from traps and such.  Slugs are for when you want to drop them quickly.  A Q6 pump action shotgun with max loaded mods will take down most zombies with one shot to the head (regular and ferals - radiated and ferals of the big boys are a bit tougher - also assuming difficulty is based on 1:1 damage which is what they balance the game to)).

 

Also @Uncle Alhad good points about properly aiming with the shotgun.

I forget about that - still is underpowered. Slugs should be something like him - longer range that bucket and bigger hole but buckshot shells in one hit kill from long range. Well , that's problem - Q6 pump action with mods. I'm too much tired to write why

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, meganoth said:

 

 

You want 7d2d to be a completely different game made by developers who probably should have a different taste in games. And the probability of that has more zeros than you getting hit by lightning on the day you win the lottery.

 

 

 

 

You remind me something - no i don't. If setting, diffuculty was similiar now with  A11, i woudn't complain. But A11 and now looks like two diffrent game and i don't mean graphic upgrade but art style

So yeah 7dtd is just another game that was before. that's why i'm frustrated. Because they change course so drastical - it was looking much darker and like this period typical horror game. Just checks screenshots

Edited by Matt115 (see edit history)
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35 minutes ago, Matt115 said:

I forget about that - still is underpowered. Slugs should be something like him - longer range that bucket and bigger hole but buckshot shells in one hit kill from long range. Well , that's problem - Q6 pump action with mods. I'm too much tired to write why

 

Not worth arguing with you if you think the shotgun is underpowered.....I don't think you have realistic expectations.

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Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, BFT2020 said:

 

Not worth arguing with you if you think the shotgun is underpowered.....I don't think you have realistic expectations.

 check double barrel shotgun in A11 then  A20 ok? - you will see i'm right. Yeah shotguns were much better that now

Edited by Matt115 (see edit history)
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6 hours ago, AtomicUs5000 said:

Before discussion moves along too far, I just want to suggest that perhaps rushing to optimize your gameplay can also be the path to enjoying this game. This rush to survive is what makes the first days of the game so amazing. I don't think it should be frowned upon. As a new player, and from the game's title, you know right from the start that you are fighting against the clock. As a new player, you feel that sense of accomplishment when you have managed your time successfully and have survived the first blood moon. You have enjoyed it so much, that you are willing to repeat this multiple times and improve upon it each time in preparation for the next one.
 
This urgency due to some impending doom is uncommon in survival games and has contributed greatly towards 7 Days to Die being one of the best survival games of all time. Let's not be too hasty to remove this quality from the game. My point is the game would do better to focus on maintaining the challenge and struggle even if a player attempts to optimize their gameplay as opposed to trying to persuade players that they shouldn't do it at all. 

 

For a game with so many systems that incorporate randonmess, it is surprising that the randonmess isn't enough on its own to throw a wrench in the works for players who attempt to optimize. It used to be enough. To be a broken record, I think putting so much importance on the traders has in a sense thrown all your eggs into one basket and has nullified everything that the randomness in all those systems were trying to accomplish. 

Well i agree about that : bigger focus on nearest danger would be good motivation -  Honestly blood moon is the best thing in this game. it's a test if your defence is good enought , if your tool is good enough, if you have enought resources etc. But hm... i learn that "level" rushing is bad idea because loot stage is connected with level - so more optimial way is just get bullets , traps etc that  making walls - because upgrading walls let you level up very fast so - bigger level = more zombies but this same stuff. Well zombie love to much sometimes jumping XD

@meganoth @BFT2020 sorry for being so spicy. Worst day 😅

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4 hours ago, Matt115 said:

Secruity etc. is technical part right?

 

Yes. Just like anything else you need to code to make this game work.

 

4 hours ago, Matt115 said:

Well i saw few at least people asking for more T5 or even T6 POI, more zombie types so. This woudn't be completely diffrent game right?

 

You forget you said "etc." 😉. The size of the changes you want for this game is massive, that is my impression at least.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, meganoth said:

 

Yes. Just like anything else you need to code to make this game work.

 

 

You forget you said "etc." 😉. The size of the changes you want for this game is massive, that is my impression at least.

 

 

1. I forget what i mean... XD  probably something about bugs and difficulty 

2. Honestly... this time nope - i saw a lot of people that want new T5 and few that want T6 . For me - 4 more T5 and 4 T6,  2 more zombie types and skeleton props and i will be happy about "basic" game.  RLY it would be good enough. 

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