Jump to content

It's all gone wrong, terribly wrong.


Recommended Posts

7 minutes ago, BFT2020 said:

 

I think you lost a lot of us.  There is no universal weapon in the game, there are 4 classes of gunpowder weapons in the game (Rifles, shotguns, machine guns, pistols/smgs).

 

Not everyone perks in fortitude (or even strength).  I tend to perk into Agility myself.  When I am looting / mining / adventuring in the world, I take a pistol with me along with a bow, and I have a shotgun ready as my backup weapon.  During horde nights, I have a weapon from each class on my toolbelt and use all of them even if I am not spec'd into it - I typically use AP rounds in sniper rifles to take out armored foes - Demo for example.  And I max out the perks in the Agility tree for the pistols / bows.

 

Also, weapon perks are not what is limiting the number of weapons in the game.  TFP did not want to create a lot of weapon models and assets so they mostly sticked to 4 weapons per group based on the tiers

1. well i'm doing this same but because diffrent ammo -  but for horde nights assults guns are the best one because you can shot zombie in close and  long range. While looting i use melee plus shotgun or pistol to save rifle bullets . i'm making bases in starship troopers style mixed with ww1. 

 

2. and TFP didn't wanted because... there is no option to make let say 10 axes ,  10 sledgehammers variants. without perks you could have actuall number of melee weapons and tons of diffrents guns because.... nothing would limit you except ammo

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Well, since we're now arguing about weapons and perks let me pitch my idea for like the 3rd time. I'd appreciate hearing what you guys think about it.

What do you think about a change that would remove damage bonuses from combat perks and some weapon mods (things like scopes, extended mags, etc)? Instead, perks would only increase/provide things like reload speed, rate of fire, crits, etc. Basically just removing the +damage% from perks and keeping the rest as is.

Edited by No_Name_Idea (see edit history)
  • Prime Bless You 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, No_Name_Idea said:

Well, since we're now arguing about weapons and perks let me pitch my idea for like the 3rd time. I'd appreciate hearing what you guys think about it.

What do you think about a change that would remove damage bonuses from combat perks and some weapon mods (things like scopes, extended mags, etc)? Instead, perks would only increase/provide things like reload speed, rate of fire, crits, etc. Basically just removing the +damage% from perks and keeping the rest as is.

Well this not solution in my opinion - honestly bigger dmg have more sense that critics. Why? well  it could be added heavier barrel mod and this would be realistic and logical

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Matt115 said:

Well this not solution in my opinion - honestly bigger dmg have more sense that critics. Why? well  it could be added heavier barrel mod and this would be realistic and logical

I'm not talking about crits on all guns, only pistols currently have crits in their perks. Combat perks right now provide things like reload speed already, all I'm proposing is removing +damage% from those bonuses.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, No_Name_Idea said:

I'm not talking about crits on all guns, only pistols currently have crits in their perks. Combat perks right now provide things like reload speed already, all I'm proposing is removing +damage% from those bonuses.

This would be good if weapons quality would be connected with advance engineering

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, Matt115 said:

This would be good if weapons quality would be connected with advance engineering

That would make Intellect even more overpowered than it already is, although I agree that combat perks shouldn't effect the tier of weapons crafted by the player. That's another discussion though. It's not like you can't get higher tier weapons without perks.

Edited by No_Name_Idea (see edit history)
Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, No_Name_Idea said:

That would make Intellect even more overpowered than it already is, although I agree that combat perks shouldn't effect the tier of weapons crafted by the player. That's another discussion though. It's not like you can't get higher tier weapons without perks.

After adding steel parts intellect is rly.... underpowered  because without looting you can't make steel tools 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, RipClaw said:

To be fair there have also been some changes. In the beginning, blade traps and turrets triggered the explosion of the demolisher. Only dart traps where safe to use.

With A19 blade traps no longer triggered the explosion and in A20, SMG and shotgun turrets no longer trigger the explosion either, even though it was never officially confirmed that this is intended.

 


That is fair. The fact remains that in 2022, demolishers can be dealt with through building strategies and traps. The OP is talking like it’s still 2019. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Matt115 said:

you forget about one fact that change how balance work - if this would be game like cod zombie. I would be 100% agree but... you have random stuff --> so it's better to invest into lucky looter + googles + candy that invest in weapons perks. why? because you don't know which weapon you will find and how many ammo you will get. So there  is better to get next tier weapon faster and get shotgun  that put point in hunting rifle but find low tier weapon ( ps junk shotgun is so useless so there even no point to invest in shotgun until you will find pomp shotgun

 

Everyone plays the game differently, but it is not a requirement to get the next tier weapon ASAP.  Lucky looter is usually one I don't spec into unless I am going more Perception tree; but it is usually not high on my list of perks to unlock really.  A double barrel shotgun is just as effective as a pump shotgun if used properly.  Heck, I have gone games where I kept using a higher quality T1 weapon even though I found lower quality T2 weapons.  A Q6 double barrel is much better than a Q1 pump shotgun if that is my backup weapon.

 

10% boost in damage per perk level affects every weapon in the class you end up spec'ing into.  Even if I only have a T0 or T1 weapon at that point, I know the point is not going to be wasted when I eventually get the T3 weapons.  Some people might not want to perk into weapons which is totally fine; however, based on comments we see in the forums, a lot of people wish they could spec into most of the weapons.

54 minutes ago, No_Name_Idea said:

That would make Intellect even more overpowered than it already is, although I agree that combat perks shouldn't effect the tier of weapons crafted by the player. That's another discussion though. It's not like you can't get higher tier weapons without perks.

 

That's really interesting that you said this  😁

 

    <insertBefore xpath="/progression/perks/perk[@name='perkDeadEye']/effect_group/passive_effect[@name='EntityDamage']">
        <passive_effect name="CraftingTier" operation="base_add" level="1,2,3,4,5" value="1,1,1,1,1" tags="PipeRifle"/>        
        <passive_effect name="CraftingTier" operation="base_add" level="1,2,3,4,5" value="1,2,3,3,3" tags="T1Rifle"/>
        <passive_effect name="CraftingTier" operation="base_add" level="1,2,3,4,5" value="1,2,2,2,2" tags="T2Rifle"/>    
        <passive_effect name="CraftingTier" operation="base_add" level="1,2,3,4,5" value="1,1,1,1,1" tags="T3Rifle"/>
    </insertBefore>
<!-- New Quality 6 Crafting Perk  -->
    <insertAfter xpath="/progression/perks/perk[@name='perkGreaseMonkey']">
        <perk name="perkQualityCrafting" parent="skillIntellectCraftsmanship" name_key="perkQualityCraftingName" desc_key="perkQualityCraftingDesc" icon="ui_game_symbol_service">
            <level_requirements level="1"><requirement name="ProgressionLevel" progression_name="attIntellect" operation="GTE" value="2" desc_key="reqIntellectLevel02"/></level_requirements>
            <level_requirements level="2"><requirement name="ProgressionLevel" progression_name="attIntellect" operation="GTE" value="4" desc_key="reqIntellectLevel04"/></level_requirements>
            <level_requirements level="3"><requirement name="ProgressionLevel" progression_name="attIntellect" operation="GTE" value="6" desc_key="reqIntellectLevel06"/></level_requirements>
            <level_requirements level="4"><requirement name="ProgressionLevel" progression_name="attIntellect" operation="GTE" value="8" desc_key="reqIntellectLevel08"/></level_requirements>
            <level_requirements level="5"><requirement name="ProgressionLevel" progression_name="attIntellect" operation="GTE" value="10" desc_key="reqIntellectLevel10"/></level_requirements>

        <effect_group>
            <passive_effect name="CraftingTier" operation="base_add" level="1,2,3,4,5" value="2,2,2,2,2" tags="T1Crafting"/>
            <passive_effect name="CraftingTier" operation="base_add" level="1,2,3,4,5" value="1,2,2,3,3" tags="T2Crafting"/>
            <passive_effect name="CraftingTier" operation="base_add" level="1,2,3,4,5" value="0,1,2,3,4" tags="T3Crafting"/>

            <effect_description level="1" desc_key="perkQualityCraftingRank1Desc" long_desc_key="perkQualityCraftingRank1LongDesc"/>
            <effect_description level="2" desc_key="perkQualityCraftingRank2Desc" long_desc_key="perkQualityCraftingRank2LongDesc"/>
            <effect_description level="3" desc_key="perkQualityCraftingRank3Desc" long_desc_key="perkQualityCraftingRank3LongDesc"/>
            <effect_description level="4" desc_key="perkQualityCraftingRank4Desc" long_desc_key="perkQualityCraftingRank4LongDesc"/>
            <effect_description level="5" desc_key="perkQualityCraftingRank5Desc" long_desc_key="perkQualityCraftingRank5LongDesc"/>
        </effect_group>
    </perk>
    </insertAfter>

 

1 hour ago, No_Name_Idea said:

I'm not talking about crits on all guns, only pistols currently have crits in their perks. Combat perks right now provide things like reload speed already, all I'm proposing is removing +damage% from those bonuses.

 

Easy to do in a mod really

18 minutes ago, Roland said:


That is fair. The fact remains that in 2022, demolishers can be dealt with through building strategies and traps. The OP is talking like it’s still 2019. 

 

Even before Auto turrets stopped triggering demos, they still could be used.  The trick was either shutting them off if the demos showed up or just setting them up to trigger the demos further from your base and let them take out other zombies for you.  A lot of people gave up fighting them (and then complained) if the way they built bases suddenly couldn't take care of this new threat without having to adapt.

  • Like 1
  • Sad 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

38 minutes ago, BFT2020 said:

That's really interesting that you said this  😁

 

--code--

Jesus @%$#ing Christ...

 

40 minutes ago, BFT2020 said:

Easy to do in a mod really

Maybe, but the game ain't balanced around it. Either way, I have zero modding knowledge and I assume the same is true for the majority of players.

  • Dislike 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

44 minutes ago, BFT2020 said:

 

Everyone plays the game differently, but it is not a requirement to get the next tier weapon ASAP.  Lucky looter is usually one I don't spec into unless I am going more Perception tree; but it is usually not high on my list of perks to unlock really.  A double barrel shotgun is just as effective as a pump shotgun if used properly.  Heck, I have gone games where I kept using a higher quality T1 weapon even though I found lower quality T2 weapons.  A Q6 double barrel is much better than a Q1 pump shotgun if that is my backup weapon.

 

10% boost in damage per perk level affects every weapon in the class you end up spec'ing into.  Even if I only have a T0 or T1 weapon at that point, I know the point is not going to be wasted when I eventually get the T3 weapons.  Some people might not want to perk into weapons which is totally fine; however, based on comments we see in the forums, a lot of people wish they could spec into most of the weapons.

 

not rly - junk shotgun is much much weaker that double barrel shotgun because  probly ( it need to be checked ) 2 point into shotgun junk gun with green quality will have lower DPS that 0 point orange 2 barrel shotgun. Well honestly this depends a lot on your luck at  T1/T2 stage. After adding perks into INT perks and lucky looter perks you will have enough perks to spend them into guns without problem. But still.... gamestage make 7dtd into unlogical as hell. that's why i'm against global gamestage ( global by meaning connected with characters) - local gamestage -> wildness --> small city etc is much more logical

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't know if this will get read or not but,  I've been playing since A14 and I absolutely love the game.  TFP has done an amazing job with this game and progression.  While I think that the game should have been made a full game a long time ago, we need to all consider something.  This game has been around for years and we have all payed somewhere between 20-40 dollars for the game.  There is now mods and other things to change the game and there is so many things to do.  Bottom line, if you dont like quests, dont do them.  If you want to craft more, loot less of the big boxes pois provide.  The wasteland is hard as heck and I love it for the excitement so make a base there and you will never be bored LOL.  We have all played this game for years and not payed another cent.  For me, I have over 4000 hours in it and it has by far payed for its worth.  Thank you fun pimps for making this an amazing game for "most".  Peace ❤️

 

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

    Lmao its the big red button all over again! How hard is it to ignore trader quests? Is it really such a struggle to play without top grade weapons?

 Trader quests become tedious quickly, so I dont do them (rarely use traders for that matter) All lower tier weapons work fine anything better found is a bonus. Scavenging will always be more fun than just buying. Surprised we havent had "Make all top gear available at vending machines from start" yet....... Oh god!!! What have I done??? Nnnnuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu!!!

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)
On 5/18/2022 at 8:38 AM, Missyism said:

Bottom line, if you dont like quests, dont do them.  If you want to craft more, loot less of the big boxes pois provide.  The wasteland is hard as heck and I love it for the excitement so make a base there and you will never be bored LOL.  We have all played this game for years and not payed another cent.  For me, I have over 4000 hours in it and it has by far payed for its worth.  Thank you fun pimps for making this an amazing game for "most".  Peace ❤️

 

7 hours ago, asmosnuts said:

Trader quests become tedious quickly, so I dont do them (rarely use traders for that matter) All lower tier weapons work fine anything better found is a bonus. Scavenging will always be more fun than just buying. Surprised we havent had "Make all top gear available at vending machines from start" yet....... Oh god!!! What have I done??? Nnnnuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu!!!

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  

On 5/16/2022 at 10:50 PM, No_Name_Idea said:

Can we please drop the whole "lol just don't use it if you don't like it" argument? I think that traders and quests are blatantly overpowered but I'm not looking for a challenge run. The "lol just don't use it" approach imo leads to stagnation of the game.

 

Edited by No_Name_Idea (see edit history)
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree with a lot of what OP said, as it harkens to what I feel I burn out on frequently when I take my breaks or just boot up another world for. A lot of what I felt when reading that was "that feels like a better game in concept", to wit I immediately reminded myself of how similar it feels to all of the circlejerking around A16. I need to boot an A16 profile just because I missed that boat. 

There are some massive elements I can agree with, but one I completely disagree with is that it has not gone "wrong, terribly wrong". Allow me to be the thorn: Fun. 

I've had a ton of fun with this game through its many shapes and changes and this is a factor I think goes out with the tide in nitpicking as we all know the creators have a keen ear to our taste. When I asked for lockpicks, I got them. I was happy. It was an implement I had wanted for a while and I can't look a gift horse in the mouth when I find 12 in a trashcan and I wonder to myself "how realistic is this?" while I then use said lockpicks to open a roll tumbler safe. The game is a wash with concessions for gameplay and I find myself feeling distant from the community for being so irate over one detail only to move onto the next thing to worry about. 

 

I don't think anyone who has been with this game long term is going to ever be content. Ever. It's full of change, and what's going to happen is alienation. One will become smitten with how it was either presented to them as is, or how it then became and become wildly attached only to learn that too was transitory and short lived. When it finally reaches gold we will see a wash of new people who know it as it is then, and they'll encounter us: the oldies. Some will be confused and some will be like "oh there were bees? Bring those back!" and it will always be a mash of wants and wishes...

 

I've had a boatload of fun and gotten more than my dollar's worth. My nitpicks or wishes are where I feel personally appropriate. I want to know what will make the game more fun for myself and others, knowing we're not looking back but going to change again. I know some things left behind are what was fun for us, but I can still have fun now.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)
On 5/16/2022 at 5:33 PM, Roland said:

 

Oh, I am totally for designed restrictions on questing. But saying so usually brings a lot of irritated people out of the woodwork ranting about people forcing their playstyle on others. I know the quote and believe in it wholeheartedly. But as long as the devs leave it to me, I'm capable of self-limiting and so I do. But I think there should be a game mechanism that limits for sure.

 

Hey @Roland, do you know if designed restrictions are on their radar or being talked about?   Like you I try to limit myself but my coop partner wants to keep questing over and over.  Would be nice to say... sorry.. we can't.  

 

How about a "length of time between quests" with an eventual slider in the options? 

Edited by SnowDog1942 (see edit history)
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 5/20/2022 at 4:25 AM, SnowDog1942 said:

 

Hey @Roland, do you know if designed restrictions are on their radar or being talked about?   Like you I try to limit myself but my coop partner wants to keep questing over and over.  Would be nice to say... sorry.. we can't.  

 

How about a "length of time between quests" with an eventual slider in the options? 


I haven’t heard anything. I don’t think it’s something they are currently planning to do. It’s been brought up in the past but hasn’t really caught any traction as something that needs to be done. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 5/17/2022 at 12:08 PM, No_Name_Idea said:

Well, since we're now arguing about weapons and perks let me pitch my idea for like the 3rd time. I'd appreciate hearing what you guys think about it.

What do you think about a change that would remove damage bonuses from combat perks and some weapon mods (things like scopes, extended mags, etc)? Instead, perks would only increase/provide things like reload speed, rate of fire, crits, etc. Basically just removing the +damage% from perks and keeping the rest as is.


To be honest, I really like the fact that my gun gets a bit stronger no matter what I add. I think that without the dps bonus some mods would just be ignored. 
 

What is your reasoning for wanting a change like this? If it happened I’d adapt just fine but I can’t say that it is a change I would push for. 
 

The change in weapons I would push for would be diminishing health from repairs until the weapon is only good for scrap. I think eternal guns harm the game and diminish the crafting and looting game. 
 

I don’t see a small dps bump from a mod having a very big impact which is why it wouldn’t necessarily bug me if they took it away. But why?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)
On 5/20/2022 at 2:58 AM, No_Name_Idea said:

Can we please drop the whole "lol just don't use it if you don't like it" argument? I think that traders and quests are blatantly overpowered but I'm not looking for a challenge run. The "lol just don't use it" approach imo leads to stagnation of the game.

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

          So whats your approach, using every single element of every single game? You choose what points go where, playstyle, weapons, tools, armour etc etc etc but its too hard to choose to ignore something irrelevant when every choice you make ignores large parts of the rest of the game/playstyle. Hardly a considered approach is it?

 

Edited by Roland
fixed broken quote (see edit history)
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)
15 hours ago, Roland said:

To be honest, I really like the fact that my gun gets a bit stronger no matter what I add. I think that without the dps bonus some mods would just be ignored. 
 

What is your reasoning for wanting a change like this? If it happened I’d adapt just fine but I can’t say that it is a change I would push for. 
 

The change in weapons I would push for would be diminishing health from repairs until the weapon is only good for scrap. I think eternal guns harm the game and diminish the crafting and looting game. 
 

I don’t see a small dps bump from a mod having a very big impact which is why it wouldn’t necessarily bug me if they took it away. But why?

I'll talk about mods first, then about perks.

I'll be THAT guy and say that it just doesn't make any sense. Why does slapping a scope on my gun give it +dmg? I get that It'S JuSt a GamE", but imo the suspension of disbelief can only go so far. To clarify, if they did remove the bonus, I wouldn't be against having a weapon mod that would just straight up add damage for a cost of a mod slot (if they add it, they better call it "High Quality Parts"). I'm just saying that mods should probably make some sense.
You said that some weapon mods would be ignored if not for their innate damage bonus. The thing is, they are "ignored" right now. They just serve as filler mods until a "good" mod is found/crafted. Keeping the dmg+ doesn't solve anything, @%$# mods are still @%$#.

Now about perks, they also (mostly) don't make sense. If I shoot a gun the first time vs 1000th time and hit the same spot, a bullet should still cause the same amount of damage. Why does spending a perk point give my bullets some esoteric power? Now, weapon handling is a totally different thing. Someone who is good with guns (a.k.a. 5/5 perk points invested) would for sure reload quicker, aimed better, etc.
Melee is a different story. After thinking about it, the damage bonus in melee perks should probably stay. It makes sense after all, if I'm good at swinging something I'll probably cause more damage. I get that it'd probably be a balancing hell though. That's why if the only option would be to remove damage bonuses from both melee and ranged perks, I'd totally take it.

As for the overall "why", I figure a change like that would make weapons more equal and would let people mix and match weapons some more, plus "backup" weapons would be more viable. This is an idea I've gotten after making my post about removing attributes.

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  

8 hours ago, asmosnuts said:

So whats your approach, using every single element of every single game? You choose what points go where, playstyle, weapons, tools, armour etc etc etc but its too hard to choose to ignore something irrelevant when every choice you make ignores large parts of the rest of the game/playstyle. Hardly a considered approach is it?

Uhh, yes? All game elements are supposed to be used. Huh?
Also, I don't remember saying anything about perks(?) It's obvious that making a build is supposed to make you better at certain things while making you worse at others. I'm not sure what you're arguing about here.

All I meant was that we shouldn't just ignore broken/overpowered/underpowered things in the game with a simple "just don't use it".

Edited by No_Name_Idea (see edit history)
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...